Reading the Classics discussion

A good WWI poem.

I would say that translating the final lines did a disservice to the poem.

As has often been said, "war is hell". There aren't many soldiers who speak of the hell of war when they come home - many scars are not visible.

Owen definitely *didn't* include a translation of the latin - that was partly the point, it was a latin motto - that has no application to WWI. And I think that the inclusion of "gas shells" is a modern addition, basically a "translation" as mucgh as translating the latin is.

Hi Cate,

Amazing, important poem.

As for the last lines, I suppose there is always going to be some variation in the translation of Latin.
But any English translation of "Dulce et decorum est …" is not part of the poem; I suppose there are editions where the English translation is appended for explanatory purposes.

As for the other line, I have a book with a photo of Owen's handwritten manuscript, with "tired, outstripped Five-Nines" crossed out and replaced with "gas shells dropping softly." Sometimes differing versions of a poem are published in different editions, so perhaps there are differing versions of this one?

You can find this poem, I'm sure, at Project Gutenberg, the worldwide volunteer project to provide free online editions of all public domain literature:
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page

Thanks for the great post!

BTW, the Latin line is from a martial poem dating back to the Roman Empire which exhorted soldiers to valor. The use of this ancient line reinforces just how old the "old lie" was.

That's interesting, Jon, about replacing "five-nines" with "gas shells" in his manuscript. Of course almost all of Owen's poems were, sadly, published posthumously so it's interesting that he was re-writing for readers who wouldn't know the soldier-speak even at the time.

Hey Phil,

Interesting note. I have a terrific book setting forth a list of the most influential English-language books of all-time, and Owens' book of collected poems is among them.

I guess "gas shells" is more accessible than "five-nines."

The poet Donald Hall was asked when he considers a poem done, and he said never—his book of poetry would arrive in the mail, and he'd change a little this, and a little that.

Ha! I like that Donald hall story. Reminds me of the Oscar Wilde quote which goes someting along the lines of being tired because he'd spent hours working on his latest story all morning and eventually removed a comma .... and then in the afternoon he put it back again.

Phil wrote: "Ha! I like that Donald hall story. Reminds me of the Oscar Wilde quote which goes someting along the lines of being tired because he'd spent hours working on his latest story all morning and eventu..."

I believe that Wilde story. The man's language was impeccable.

Also reminds me of Stradlater in Catcher In The Rye, reducing Holden's composition-writing ability to "knowing where to put the commas." Well there's that, and a little bit more ... :o)

Actually, before the more "modern" warfare pieces were described, I thought it was about Napoleon's forces marching back out of Russia after their failure there. War is horrible in all centuries, but the new "advancements" in war machinery, etc, first introduced in WWI certainly changed war for all time. Instead of romanticizing it as past (and some present) thinkers did, we can see it for its true horrors, new weaponry or not.

Millions dead. Some gassed. Yet Owen's words went unheeded. Two decades later, a second world slaughter, millions more dying for their countries.

“See that little stream — we could walk to it in two minutes. It took the British a month to walk to it — a whole empire walking very slowly, dying in front and pushing forward behind. And another empire walked very slowly backward a few inches a day, leaving the dead like a million bloody rugs. No Europeans will ever do that again in this generation.” - Fitzgerald


Grass - Carl Sandburg

Pile the bodies high at Austerlitz and Waterloo,
Shovel them under and let me work--
I am the grass; I cover all.

And pile them high at Gettysburg
And pile them high at Ypres and Verdun.
Shovel them under and let me work.
Two years, ten years, and passengers ask the conductor:
What place is this?
Where are we now?

I am the grass.
Let me work.

Dulce et Decorum est is my favourite war poem (as cliched as that might be). I studied it a few years ago and it's stuck with me ever since. I find it beautiful (the way the words work, not the subject matter) and horrifying at the same time.

I really like Wilfred Owen. But I have studied him to death because I happen to come from the same home town of Oswestry. However, Dulce et decorum est is still one of my favourite poems. A poem that gives me a similar feeling of bleakness is 'a disused shed in co wexford' by derek mahon.