The Readers Society discussion

August/September Cycle: The Iron King by Julie Kagawa.
This is the first time we're doing discussion questions so we'll see how everyone likes them! Feel free to post about anything about the book, not just the topics mentioned in the questions.

Discussion Questions
* What did you think about the way the author used characters and ideas from other works to supplement her story?

* What did you think of Meghan as a character? Did you find her annoying, helpless, inspiring, easy to relate to? Did you think that she evolved or was more of a stagnant character?

* What did you think of the Puck/Ash conflict and how they handle the situation?

* What do you think of Grimalkin as a character? Do you think he is more generous/deceitful than he seems?

* How do you feel about the way the author has intertwined her fantasy book with reality?

* How do you feel about the imagery of the dreams of mortals moving to iron and killing the more 'Earthy' Fey?

-Angela

i have just finished the book and thought it was amazing! my thoughts on Meghan is that she is that shy girl at school who really really wants to impress her crush but sadly she doesnt have the best things, clothes, technology or is popular etc but that she is just going to be herself and doesnt really care which i really liked about her. She makes a really good first impression in the book. She was determined to save her little brother and as Ash mentioned she is extremely loyal to the people she cares about which i think is a good thing and not a weakness. Sometimes her determination to carry on felt a little unbelievable, a bit too dramatic and fake the way she was literally willing to sacrifice anything to save her little brother,even though I felt that in the begining they didnt seem too close in terms of their relationship ( thats just what i thought..)one of the things that i didnt like about her that was she was a 'damsel in distress ' many times ( not that she couldnt do anything!) and not able to fight for herself so she would have to be saved by Puck or Ash. closer to the end though she started to fight for herself, which i liked. overall i thought the book was really enjoyable and im sure ill will finish the series:)..

the only thing im not sure is that do i read Winter's Passage which is said to be 1.5 in the series or do i just go straight onto the Iron Daughter book 2? many thanks

I'm so glad you liked it! I agree I really liked that she was always trying to save her brother. I saw that too in the beginning when she and her brother didn't seem to be on the best of terms. I think she started out a little bit whiny but grew more likable. I like that she was a reasonable 'damsel in distress' this book and I felt she got better with every page (through the series as well) as she learned how things work in the nevernever.
You can read them in the numbered order but it's not essential to read the 1.5 and 3.5 (but I recommend them!)They happen in between the books.
I'm really glad you liked it!
-Angela

This book frustrated me from the very beginning, but it did get better along the way. The concept of science pushing magic to extinction is an old theme that in this case is oversimplified, with words like "logic" and "progress" thrown about as if they are names of horrible entities deliberately trying to kill the old magic, instead of natural change having regrettable side effects. What Kagawa DOES with this concept is another, more impressive thing entirely: the origin of the Iron Fey in human dreams brought on by a technologically advanced civilization's technologically advanced fears, the downfall of the first Iron King into obsolescence, the effects the new species of Fey has on the old, and finally Meghan's importance as being the only old-style fey immune to those effects. I just wish she hadn't had Meghan explain the origins, because it's impossible to take her thoughts seriously after a hundred and thirty pages of spectacularly poor decision-making. Meghan continues to be my major problem with this book. Her whiny self-absorption grated on me from the start, and her dealings in Faeryland baffle me.

In the beginning she falls prey to every fairy trick in the book--following floating lights in the dark, promising favors to strange fey, eating enchanted food, etc.--and even has to be cautioned time and time again on the dangers of believing in appearances and the power of words (don't tell them your name, don't make promises or bargains because you WILL be forced to keep them). She claims to have a pretty solid background in fairytales and has witnessed enough by-the-book events in the Nevernever to trust in the authority of the old stories, but she doesn't quite get it. Her dealings with the fey are simply exasperating. She's totally oblivious to the dangers around her, even after all the warnings and a few run-ins with some pretty murderous beings. She's constantly either being hooked into promising ambiguous or suicidal favors or, when her friends are around and paying attention, being saved from making shortsighted promises and bargains. Left to her own devices, she simply stumbles around until she's captured and dragged around Faeryland until someone rescues her. Her rescuers inevitably lose track of her, and the cycle begins again.

Meghan's refusal to adapt to her new environment might be forgiven and even make for good reading if it weren't for the internal monologue, which narrates as though the world revolves around Meghan. True, the fate of the Nevernever seems inescapably tied to her presence and her potential powers as Oberon's child, but Meghan seems to be the only character not surprised by that fact. Her devotion to rescuing her brother doesn't even go against that self-centered attitude, as she follows his trail blind to the consequences, dragging Puck and others along on a potentially suicidal quest and assuming that the mere mention of the lost child will convince all kinds of deadly creatures to help her. At the same time she has no faith in her oldest and best friend. She assumes Puck has betrayed her when they are separated, and when she witnesses his punishment early on she mostly mourns for her loss of a guide. When he is injured again and taken out of the picture for good she is once again quick to forget him. She drags Ash into a poisonous atmosphere that is slowly killing him, but even though she has come to love him her only thought is that his death will doom her mission--wait, a few chapters before, when he was simply a hot guy trying to kidnap and/or kill her, wasn't she insisting that she wouldn't even let Ash die if it meant saving her brother? She even admits that if she hadn't fallen in love with Ash, she wouldn't have cared if the Nevernever were to become corrupted and its inhabitants destroyed by the Iron Fey, despite it already being the home of her oldest and best friend (she's forgotten Puck again), and despite a rigid pacifism that only recently had her refusing to let Puck duel a wounded Ash, though at the time Ash's mission was dooming hers, and refusing to consider killing the Iron King.

Character development is crucial to any story, and Meghan's is pretty drastic. Now and then she says something actually helpful, or even downright intelligent. I had to stop and reread carefully to make sure it was happening. I am not exaggerating. Her few sparks of intelligence baffled me. Twice, early on, she outsmarts fey bent on doing her serious harm--first the redcaps, then Shade--and although the episodes ring of old Irish folktales, with common human heroes pitting their wits against the fairies', with Meghan at the center I couldn't buy it. Practically every chapter this chick has to be warned not to accidentally promise away her future children, and suddenly she's able to talk her way out of a truly deadly bind? Later on she becomes a little more savvy, but until she stops getting drunk off faery-fruit and giving away ambiguous favors those moments of cleverness are just plain irritating because they make no sense in context. But somewhere along the way she really does catch on--her discovery of her powers as Oberon's daughter, along with her ability to finish much of the quest on her own, was actually impressive.

Few of the characters really rise to their potential--even my unfailing love for any Puck character is hard-won this time around, and Grimalkin is perhaps the only character who never disappoints. The book is definitely plot-driven, often at the expense of its characters, and I thought long and hard before giving it that fourth star, but I think I can safely say I'm hooked on The Iron Fey.

Apologies for the length. I haven't had to write a lit paper in four months and I may have gotten a little carried away.

Sorry it took so long to reply Kate! I'm glad you liked it! I loved your review by the way, I laughed when I got to the last paragraph! You are just like me, List of woes... I loved it!

I love that you pointed out about the first Iron King's fall due to being obsolete, I didn't see that when I read it but that's a great point. I love what the author did with the idea of Iron vs. Old Fey. I like the conflict that it poses for this series.

I see what you mean about Meghan being ... irritating. She irritated me for a bit, but I think that some of it was realistic. I for one would be quite useless if I was ripped from my spiny computer chair and fluffy slippers and thrown into this dangerous world. I am going to have to disagree with you though on Meghan's self centered attitude.

True, the fate of the Nevernever seems inescapably tied to her presence and her potential powers as Oberon's child, but Meghan seems to be the only character not surprised by that fact.

I think that she was quite surprised by this to the point that she was in a state of defiant denial for a good portion of her time in the Seelie court. I equate that to being abducted by David Tennant and told I am actually an ancient Time Lord. I might go along with it, but I simply would not be able to accept the reality of the situation so why not play along?

I also wanted to comment on Puck. I knew you'd love him as soon as I read this by the way. I also loved him, that being said... I do not think she was constantly forgetting her best friend. I think that when she had found out that her oldest friend was not who he said he was (implying that he had to lie to her for all those years) and was in fact someone who she had read about (I do not have a great background in who he is in other works because I admit I've never read A Midsummer Night's Dream so can not speculate on what kind of image she had of 'Puck' vs. Robbie although it seems he is quite a bit more wild and recklessly dangerous - and probably more fun) I imagine she lost quite a lot of trust in him as tends to happen when one finds out their friends are not who they say they are. She also often separates them in her mind as Robbie and Puck, even saying that he seemed to change at one point into a more primal & dangerous Puck and she could not even see her friend anymore. So when she said she didn't care about the destruction of the Nevernever, I don't think she meant to forget Robbie, because I think that she considered Robbie part of her world. However I was outraged on Puck's behalf a few times too.

I think that you should defiantly read the rest of the series I'd really like to see what you think of it!
-Angela

I had a really hard time getting through this book. Not that it wasn't a fast read but the interplay between characters was frusterating and under developed in my opinion. I was also frusterated by the main character herself. Her refusal to adapt tot he situation around her from her internal monolgue completely put me off. Like Kate said previously, it seemed as if the world was revolving around her.

I was first intrigued by the concept of technology getting in the way of fantasy and make believe but I did not like the execution portrayed by the characters throughout the story.

My favorite character out of all of them was Puck. He was distant and hard to really get to know but he was a lovable character int he end.