Jane Austen discussion

The next section for our P&P discussion.

So of course in this part of the novel, we meet Lady Catherine. After reading Austen numerous times, I wonder does Lady C really represent the Mrs. Bennet of Darcy's family? Her ability to interfere and her tactlessness. We dont see some of that until later chapters, but we do get a good dose of her here.

That's a good point, actually I've never thought of that before. she is in a different class than Mrs. Bennet, but her manners are just as ridiculous.

We do have some reason to believe that even Darcy was embarassed by her. Remember the scene where she offers to let Lizzy use the pianaforte? "She will be in nobody's way in that part of the house." Now it is his turn to feel uncomfortable about a relation, no matter how rich and mighty she might be. Make no mistake about it, the visit at Rosings was all about the chastising of Darcy for his pride.

I think Lady Catherine is deliciously awful! My favorite part is the one where she talks about piano playing: "If I had ever learnt, I would have been a great proficient."! LC contributed, in a way, to Elizabeth's angry response to Darcy's proposal. LC's condescending attitude, her obnoxious remarks, and her general insensitivity must have irritated Elizabeth no end. And yes, I agree that the visit to Rosings enabled Darcy to see that having vulgar relations was not just a class issue.

Monica, I agree. I felt that Darcy was mortified by his aunts behavior, but did it make him sympathetic to Elizabeth's situation with her mother? Darcy encouraged Bingley to not pursue the relationship because of jane's 'unfortunate relations'. Was he able to see that they both had this problem?

Monica wrote: "I think Lady Catherine is deliciously awful! My favorite part is the one where she talks about piano playing: "If I had ever learnt, I would have been a great proficient."! LC contributed, in a way..."

Well... there's no direct evidence in the text that Elizabeth was irritated by LC. What makes Elizabeth a heroine is that she refuses to let Lady Catherine get the better of her and speaks her mind openly. She refuses to be like Mr. Collins. When LC wants her to stay longer, Elizabeth holds her ground. She's not the least bit intimidated by her.

Yes, Lady Catherine had met more than her match in Elizabeth. "...Elizabeth suspected herself to be the first creature who had ever dared to trifle with so much dignified impertinence." A great quote and Austen at her best irreverence!

I would think she would have been annoyed by Lady C. but she didn't show it. And it really sets Elizabeth apart from her friend Charlotte and Mr. Collins who are so willing to "play the game."

This is such as big part of the story -- the visit to Rosings -- Elizabeth experiences Lady Catherine, the proposal and confrontation with Darcy, his letter.

Sarah, I agree. This is a definate turning point in the story. I love how Elizabeth wasn't the least bit intimidated by Lady Catherine and how she refused to play the game. I was sorry to see charlotte so willing to play the game, but I suppose once she married Mr. collins she gave up that choice.

Great points about Darcy having a family connection to be embarrassed about!!! That does lessen his pride and give Elizabeth and him something in common!

I really do think it was FIRST the class issue, with the irritating family members as a second consideration, that bothered Darcy about any connection with Elizabeth (and, similarly, Bingley to Jane). Even the kindly aunt and uncle are looked down upon for living in Cheapside! But, obviously the likes of Mrs B and Lydia didn't help matters much.

I know class and connections play a huge part, and Yes, the kindly aunt and uncle were looked down upon, but only by Bingley's sisters. When Darcy met them he was pleasantly surprised. Even elizabeth knew her aunt and uncle would not shame her.

True. I think the fact that Darcy was pleasantly surprised, though, shows that he had a preconceived notion of them. However, whether that was based on their class or simply their being a relation of Mrs. B is not certain.