John Fire Lame Deer > Quotes > Quote > Laurie liked it

The quote strikes me as quite apt. That said, I wish more people would wake up to the fact that breeding and killing animals just so we can turn their milk, hair, flesh and skin into goods to be used and consumed by humans is wholly inconsistent with the sentiment that others' needs (to life, to autonomy) matter equally as much as our own, and that we have no justification whatsoever (only 'habit' and 'pleasure') to treat them as means towards our ends.

No argument here. I would only add "stop destroying habitats." Not saying I am fully removed from that synthetic version of the cycle of life and death, just chipping away at it.

Sure, although I'm not crazy about the word "habitat". Everything simply *is*, and nothing exists *because* other beings (or plants) (can) inhabit them, or grow on them. Certainly we tend to impute all kinds of purposes to others, and we breed animals and grow plants for purposes that we choose, which kind of muddles the issue, but that fact is meaningless from the perspective of the being or thing to who those purposes are assigned (even if they may be affected by the behavior we exhibit as a result of our beliefs wrt how we may use them. (Of course, in the case of plants we aren't really depriving them of further experiences when we harvest them, whereas in the case of animal use we are, so there are relevant differences, but in both cases our beliefs concerning how they may be used (and "why they are here") are just that -- human ideas.)

Aside from that, I think it is useful to keep in mind that animal agriculture is the driving force behind many if not the majority of the changes we make to the earth we live on, either because we turn land into pasture, or because we turn land into fields on which we grow crops that are then fed to those animals (who require between 2 and 16x the amount of plant matter that they "yield" upon slaughter, or by way of calories from cheese etc.).

I agree about animal agriculture - the more we separate ourselves from the source of our nourishment, the more we inflict suffering on all life. My thoughts when posting were more about industrial pollution. They generally are, because I grew up in an area which has a complicated relationship with the oil and chemical industries - dependence on the economic benefits, yet locked in a dance of various forms of physical suffering from toxins, cancers, and skin diseases. The shoreline shows the most death - it's horrifying to know that human "needs" are responsible for waves of dead sea animals and plants that wash ashore. Of course, the area is full of right wing dominionist Christians who blame the cancers, death tides, and whatever else on God's anger at "liberals." I dunno - seems to me if that were the case, the "Supreme Being" would go direct, rather than take out a pod of dolphins or a couple dozen sea turtles. Still, current agricultural practices are barbaric, ruin land, waste resources, demean and torture animals, and encourage a culture where we dispose of life frivolously, and as long as there is a demand, it continues.