Sheryl Parbhoo's Blog

This Sunday millions of people around the world will celebrate the Indian holiday of Diwali. The “Festival Of Lights” has fascinated me for the longest time but to be honest I never really understood what it was all about, we always treated it like an “Indian Christmas”. So today I invited author Anju Gattani onto the podcast to walk me through the Diwali celebration; how it compares to western holidays, the preparations that go into it, and what Diwali’s origins are. 

Along the way we discuss her incredible experiences growing up in a multicultural community in Hong Kong (1:47), how Diwali compares to the American holiday season (4:28), exactly how Diwali is celebrated (5:30), the unique Diwali celebrations she experienced growing up (12:12)–including diverse Diwali Balls she attended (13:25). Anju and I spoke about the Indian culture’s love of celebrations (15:48), how she integrates Indian and Western traditions in her household (18:44), why she labors to keep up with both Indian and American holidays (21:09), how exposure to other culture’s celebrations is teaching her children respect (22:23), and how she portrayed Diwali in her novel Duty and Desire (29:09).

A fiction author, freelance journalist, fiction writing instructor, blogger and former newspaper reporter, Anju was born in India but grew up in Hong Kong. She has also lived in Singapore, India, Australia, New Jersey, Connecticut, and finally dug her roots in Atlanta, Georgia with her husband, 2 dashing boys and a rebel lion-head rabbit.

Her debut novel ‘Duty and
Desire’ in the Winds of Fire series is slated for release in 2020. Anju hopes
her books will Bridge Cultures and Break Barriers.

Read Anju’s blog and find more information about her books on her official website. Make sure to follow her on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram!

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple  Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Tunein. Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagram and Twitter!

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid and I am fiercely proud of both . If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Prabhu and this is southern life Indian wife. All.

00:00:20

Right. So today I have got Anju Gattani…am I saying that right? Yes you are. Okay good because I have that American accent and an inability to say different kinds of names.

00:00:31

Well you say all things beautifully so we’re all good.

00:00:34

Thank you. And so thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. Since it’s getting into the holiday season I wanted to have you come and talk about Diwali… because that is in October before Halloween Thanksgiving Christmas.

00:00:51

And when I married my husband I was always told that Diwali is the Indian Christmas. So I wanted to kind of get the real scoop on the holiday. Yeah I know you’ve got a really interesting background. So you have a very wide scope of perspective I guess on the holiday.

00:01:11

Yeah a very unique perspective I’d say which sometimes coincides with the general thinking pattern and Sometimes Doesn’t. OK. So you know that all comes and basically from experiences I’ve had. So I’m excited to share all of them with you. Yeah. And I listened to some of your other podcasts with other speakers. And I really enjoyed what I heard.

00:01:31

Oh well thank you so much. Yeah I love. Just kind of shooting the wind with people so sometimes I just can’t you can’t stop me. You’re good at what you do. Well thank you . Yeah. So a little bit about you you grew up you were born and grew up in Hong Kong?

00:01:47

Well born in India in Bareilly where Priyanka Chopra is from. Which is exciting.

00:01:54

But you know grew up in Hong Kong for the majority of my life. I would say a good 20 to 23 years very very a British school over 36 nationalities under one roof at any time. Wow. And so a very multicultural feel you know students from Japan Korea India USA to different parts of Europe to kids from Africa to Australia. I mean there were families from all over the continent including the Chinese. And even within the Chinese there were so many different sects sectors of the different colloquial Chinese backgrounds they came from. So it was a real multicultural playground so to speak.

00:02:35

Wow. OK so your family of course has the traditional Indian culture and religion that’s what you grew up with even though you were not in India.

00:02:46

Yes. So I would say think of ‘Bend It Like Beckham’ OK.

00:02:49

But without the soccer OK I’m not an athlete. No no no.

00:02:54

Let’s go to the culture clash that you saw in ‘Bend It Like Beckham’ and you know go in the shadows the recent release ‘Blinded By The Light’ another fantastic film really captures the feel and the era of the 1980s and 90s. OK which is what a lot of us went through. And you know growing up in a multicultural city so very Indian family prob probably not as much as what you saw on blinded by the light. You know my parents had a really good mix but still a very very Indian on the inside. And the moment you stepped out the door it was a wave of multicultural that hit you. OK. And so we learn to juggle between the two sides very quickly. So and I can just say that the moment we would come home for example if we’re talking to our parents that would be English with an Indian accent the moment we stepped out it’s English with the British accent.

00:03:48

OK. So very much the ability to just code switch on a dime on a dime without even realizing it.

00:03:54

And I think what I understand looking back is that taught us a lot in terms of being able to adapt and adjust to any and every situation. Because you’re so used to doing it right and adjusting to that people around you and the changes in the environment situation you become very quick at thinking on your feet and managing with what you have around you.

00:04:15

Right. Yeah. That makes total sense. So but with traditions your family maintain that very Indian essence right? Yes. Yes they did. So with Diwali that was a big important part of your family. I assume it was huge.

00:04:28

OK you’re right in what you said it’s equivalent to the American and British Christmas and I would say in America Thanksgiving. OK. That’s the scale at which it’s at. Because I know Thanksgiving is huge here. A lot of families come together. People take trips road trips they fly down all over the place and you know the amount of food that’s cooked and served. It’s exciting.

00:04:50

It’s very exciting. There’s always three times more than any football team could eat really. Oh yes.

00:04:56

So what we see on TV is a real thing.

00:04:58

You know what we see on TV at least what I’ve seen is very formal dinners. You know the head of the household is cutting the turkey and everyone sitting there at this nicely laid table. And I’m sure there are families out there that do that. But my family has never done that. It’s just sort of a free for all. You lay it all out on every single kitchen counter. Everybody just goes and serves themselves and we sit around watching football and make ourselves sick.

00:05:24

So that’s our ritual. Sounds fun.

00:05:27

It is very fun. Back to Diwali.

00:05:29

Yeah. So here’s the difference. You know how you have spring cleaning. So we have Diwali cleaning which I think which starts pretty much you know several weeks ahead of the Diwali itself because there is a belief that. And one of the goddesses we worship is Goddess Lakshmi Lakshmi Ji and the belief is that you know on the night of Diwali she’s basically out and about. And if your house is clean sparkling she’ll come and visit you and shower you with blessings prosperity wealth because she is the goddess of wealth. OK so a lot of families believe that if you keep your house clean and you know and that really means cleaning every shelf every cupboard. Which is exhausting. Yes. So as fun as the festival is the one thing that I’ve always remembered right from the beginning is the house cleaning which starts several weeks ahead of time. Yikes. And it’s a lot of work. So that is followed by obviously then the five days of Diwali so Diwali usually spans over five days. OK. Day one is known as Dhanteras and that’s usually when families go out and buy something in gold or silver. It’s considered good luck.

00:06:37

OK. So do they buy just one trinket for the family or? it could be.

00:06:41

It could be a trinket it could be something you know for their home or for somebody and that’s usually a good luck kind of thing that people do to welcome prosperity. OK. And then you light one Diya and the Diya is like a crucible a earthenware Crucible which is made of clay or then where it’s baked in the kill and then you know we fill it with oil and we have a long cup and Wick which we dip in the oil and then we light that. So it’s like an oil lamp so to speak. OK. But a very miniature version of it.

00:07:16

So you light it do you leave it lit until we just leave it until it goes out OK.

00:07:21

So that’s day one Dhanteras . Day two is Chhoti Diwali also known if I translate that. It’s like Diwali Eve or Little Diwali . OK. That is the build up to the actual Diwali day and that evening. You know a lot of families they shower in the evenings again and then they dress up and then they liked five diyas and that could vary from family to family. So in my family it’s been day one is one Diya day two is five Diyas. Again it’s the same concept of you know preparing for the Festival of Lights which is what Diwali is.

00:07:57

OK yeah. And that that is my main question what the heck exactly does that mean.

00:08:03

So it goes back to if you take the approach of the practical side of it as well there are two approaches you can come from. One is it indicates the end of harvest for many farmers. This is back in the day when you know peasants farmers were the main I think the population in India. And so Diwali kind of signify the end of the harvest. OK. And so it was also a cause for celebration because it was a coming of winter. And so they they lit Diyas in to commemorate that. But the more important story is the coming home of Lord Rama and he is sort of the reincarnate Lord Vishnu. Now what happened in his story was that he was born to King Dasharatha and King Dasharatha had four wives. I remember correctly four wives. He was the oldest son of the four sons in total. OK from from from the wives. And I could be wrong. I think it could be three wives.

00:09:01

But anyway a lot. Yes.

00:09:04

Indian religion does have a lot of you know I would say diversity to it in terms of the Kings and the queens and the number of wives they had and the number of children they had. But Lord Rama was the oldest of all the four brothers in from that King. And he was sent in exile for 14 years. He was banished to the forest but with his return came the fact that he had also killed the Indian highest pinnacle of a demon so to speak called Ravana. OK. So the day that he actually killed Ravana is known as Dusherra…Dusherra . And that is the day that Lord Ram killed Ravana. So in a lot of places in India you’ll see huge effigies of Lord of Ravan put up and burned. Oh OK. Wow. So that celebrates that huh. And then sort of then it was a 10 day time period from when Lord Rama killed Ravana to when he came home on Diwali . So it’s like a homecoming. Sort of sad so to speak. OK. And that’s you know to celebrate and honor his coming home after the exile. The palace was lit up with these oil lamps to welcome him. OK. Now the other part of it is also that it’s the victory of good over evil light over darkness.

00:10:20

Now that is the very simplistic. That is the most simplistic explaination that I have ever heard. Yeah but I’ve always been told. Yeah. That’s a wonderful thing to celebrate.

00:10:28

It is. And so the funny thing is is that you know we have so many stories even now trilogies and series which talk about good over evil light over dark even movies that are produced by Hollywood and Bollywood today. Yes. So the concept is something that stems back to a very basic of positive over negative. And so me.

00:10:50

Yeah. That’s worldwide. That world lives in every single belief system dating back to pre organized religion.

00:10:57

Yeah exactly. Yeah. So I hope that was able to kind of cover it in a nutshell.

00:11:02

Definitely I mean that condenses the story pretty well. So yeah that’s great because ever since I’ve been a part of Indian culture you know on the fringe anyway you know I always wanted to know what Diwali really was about and I was around people that celebrated it and you know they did the garbas they dressed up right. But I never really got a good explanation for what it is. It’s just something we do. It’s something we do which is like what we do with Christmas and Thanksgiving everybody doesn’t know the full story behind it right. We just do it with our family because it’s a thing.

00:11:38

Yes. And I think you know the good thing is now with the Internet you can Google a lot of the stuff out kind of research into what it’s all about. Why do we use and why do we practice certain traditions and rights that we do. Yeah and that definitely helps define and refine our actions.

00:11:57

Absolutely. Yes the Internet is good.

00:12:00

Yes it does have its downfalls but it definitely has its power. Great. So tell me what is what it looks like in your family when you were growing up and now when Diwali comes.

00:12:12

So growing up in Hong Kong we didn’t have a lot of the luxuries for example that you get an Indian and in the US. Indian products Indian goods that are easy to buy and sort of make life simple.

00:12:25

You know Amazon now this is the Amazon right. We were still functioning on landlines. International calls. How did we ever do that

00:12:34

Think about it now it feels really weird. Yeah. So everything was done and made from scratch and Hong Kong was not a place where you could go into an Indian store and buy sweets or you know savory dishes or things like that. Everything was made by hand. So mom spent at least a good four to five days prior to Dwali and this is after all the cleaning and the House cleaning stuff then cooking sweet sweet meats and making you know savory snacks. Wow. And you know the whole house would just be full of the fragrance of food and the House means apartments everybody in Hong Kong lives usually pretty much in an apartment. OK. So you’d get fragrances you go into any household at that time and that’s the fragrance you’d get in an Indian home. Wow. And so that was you know I would say the key sense that I remember. But what was unique in Hong Kong for us was a lot of our Indian friends also celebrated Diwali after the five days of Diwali with a Diwali Ball. And that was a huge cultural event which was held in a five star hotel. Right. And we all dressed up you know you wore your best sort of Gagra choli or sari whatever you wanted to wear. And we had cultural dances which we were kids at that time. So we performed onstage. Nice. Now we didn’t have the Bollywood music that you have now which is fabulous by the way. Yes it is. Yeah but we had our version of what was Indian music and Indian songs which were coming up and sort of tuning into Western society as well. OK. So all of my friends and I we would sometimes have group dances sometimes individual dances and we all performed on stage and it was a way to also recognize and practice a lot of the dances that we saw on TV which then kind of gave us a feel of where we belong.

00:14:30

OK. Which really helped. Yeah. You know so the Japanese wore their kimonos for their events and we see them you know and every culture definitely celebrated their festivals.

00:14:44

And we did ours in the same way. OK. So for us as kids after the whole you know Diwali cleaning the prayers and everything the next big thing was this Diwali Ball which we practiced a month or two months for in terms of our solo or group dances. That’s right. And that was really fun.

00:15:01

When I first met my husband. Gosh I mean maybe a couple of months after we started dating I went to an event where he did some dancing… and. OK so. And the 16 year old girl from Memphis Tennessee very white Wonder Bread the only dancing I ever did was ballet. My family never danced. Oh heck no!! And then I see this boy that I’m completely in love with with like us bandana thing around his head and a completely white outfit barefoot clicking sticks of people up on the stage he was super cool but I’m like This is not the kind of guy that I’ve ever met before. I didn’t know what to think of that.

00:15:39

But it was really exciting like being thrown into a whole nother world. Yes it is. Is it like that.

00:15:45

It was it was like that. And that’s the one thing Indians love they love to celebrate. They love the colorful clothes. You know we just love to dress. We love the vibrant colors. And so you know you put all that together with good music and good food and you’re asking for fun.

00:16:04

Yeah.

00:16:05

And so that’s it for us growing up that’s what all the excitement of Diwali was. So even though it wasn’t you know India so to speak. Not that India is what it used to be anymore but we made our own little version of it way that you know the Gujaratis had their own Gujarati Diwali Ball . Oh is that right. Yes. OK. Cindy’s had their own Cindy Diwali Ball and we had our own we’re from Rajasthan from Jaipur. So a lot of us. We had our own Marvani Diwali Balls or Rajasthan association Diwali Balls. OK. And the difference was the colloquial language that everybody spoke in so Gujaratis these would speak in their language and they would you know get together with their group celebrate Diwali in the Diwali Ball their way there which was also song dance and food by the wa

00:16:52

Yeah. It’s all the same thing. Yeah pretty much the same Mexican food gradients that just in a different form a different form different color different texture and but it’s all about celebration. Yeah. And we had our own thing too. And this is back in the day when everything was video recorded. So then we’d exchange video recorded cassettes you know the video cassettes or near the cassette. Yes. Pop It in the video and see how is Gujdrati ball this year? How Was the Cindy bal l this year? . It often seemed like you were friends with that. We were friends with everybody. OK.

00:17:21

Oh yeah. And you know they’d see our performances through our video recordings and see. So you know there was all the pre work and then there was all the post fun that went on with it. So those are the really strong memories I have of Diwali now going back to how did it differ. So instead of earthenware clay lamps you know mom and dad used

00:18:13

You just find ways of making that happen with what you have.

00:18:18

Yeah. That makes total sense. So how have you been able to work it into you have two sons. I have two sons. That’s right. You’ve lived all over the world. And you have these boys that for the most part grown up here in the U.S. pretty much OK. So how do you share that with them. Because I’m sure that there are forces tugging them to the other side of culture. And you know the white American or just the general American sort of culture.

00:18:44

The only time we really hit a crossroad was when Diwali and Halloween we’re on the same day. Oh because then you had the Festival of Light and the Festival of darkness on the same day. Yeah.

00:18:54

Confusing and not just that you know you’re trying to celebrate life but on the other side the kids want to dress up and go around trick or treat. Yeah. They’re going to be dressed up as a skeleton. Exactly. That’s a little more appealing. It’s a far more appealing for them. Yeah. So the tradeoff we did was all right. You get to do this half first and then you can do the other half later. Just don’t dress up as a skeleton dress up as something more acceptable because you’re celebrating life today. That makes sense. So you know.

00:19:21

But they’re very open as are we to all the festivals and so there’s never really been a tug of war ever because we celebrate Christmas. We celebrate Easter when they were smaller we did OK for the Easter eggs and everything and roll in houses. If it’s an Indian festival we make Indian food that date. If it’s on the western festival. No Indian food. So that’s how we kind of you know have a few tiny little rules. OK. Having grown up the way I did. Having seen the diversity that I have I think being able to do that for the kids makes them want to celebrate everything. Yes. Because you embrace their entire world embrace their entire world because their entire world is not just Indian. Right. It’s American. And it’s also in many ways African-American and it’s also Japanese or Korean or Chinese or whatever their friends and the surroundings are right.

00:20:15

But I do love that you’re committed to maintaining that culture that you bring that you brought from your upbringing with your kids because like with my people I don’t I mean most of my ancestors from England Scotland Irish you know pretty much the same mutt mix that every other white person in the south and the Midwest.

00:20:36

And I don’t know that we have any real cultural maybe some vestigial values but I don’t know that there’s any real cultural ritual or practice that we have that that our ancestors had. And you know even from my family growing up with Christmas it wasn’t a religious thing it was Santa Claus. And I guess that is you know that is a ritual. But I don’t feel like that’s a real rich spiritual soulful sort of cultural tradition.

00:21:06

So I love that you do have that.

00:21:09

I mean it takes a lot of effort to keep up with it. I’ll give you that especially when Diwali comes and then comes Thanksgiving and then comes Christmas and before Diwali you have number three which a lot of people really really celebrate and hype up. So it all depends on your perspective I would say. Yeah. And you know how much you’re willing to put in. But it does it. It definitely has helped ground me to my cultural values and my system of beliefs and I feel that by putting in the effort it will help ground my kids to you.

00:21:43

Absolutely. Absolutely. So your philosophy is just you know give them everything in their life give them everything.

00:21:51

All kids want to be given everything but I mean you know culturally give them something from everything that is around them you know going back to the question of you know what my kids I felt I think they’re happy. They’re really happy that they’ve been exposed to everything. They don’t have to pick and choose. I love that there’s no mandatory you got to pick this or you got to choose that. You know we celebrate everything we celebrate everyone and how. Yeah I love that. And that’s how it should be. That really is how it should be because then you learn to respect other cultures. You learn to respect other people’s values and their system of beliefs which was what makes other people different from who and what you are. And you know my kids have a diversity of friends as do I you know here I am talking to you for example and we talk before the recording and we’ll be talking after the recording and there’s just so much to exchange. But look at the beauty of it is that we can accept each other’s story and journey right without judging.

00:22:54

That’s the thing because we all have our own journey. It doesn’t matter if you’re Indian or American or Chinese or whatever you have your own story. You have your own story mean personality within whatever it is that you grew up.

00:23:05

Exactly. And I grew up honestly in king King George fifth school in Hong Kong known as K2 5 which was under the British system. And I was exposed more to Christianity than I was to my Indian roots. Wow. So if you read Harry Potter you know you’ll see all these things about head boy Head Girl or prefects so to speak well we had we have a system we had Monday. Friday assemblies. We sang a lot of the British hymns. The you know the hymns and plus we had verses from the Bible read out. So we we actually knew a lot about Christianity growing up. But you know when I would compare it with our Indian religion as well which I was getting exposed to in bits and pieces I realized basically it’s all the same.

00:23:55

Yes it really really is. It is. I love that perspective. You know even when you were younger you could see that I could see that.

00:24:02

I mean we were also exposed to another Chinese Festival. And again their belief systems are so much in line with what Christianity and with what Hinduism also says which is just a model or a way of being able to live your life in peace and harmony. That’s it. Isn’t that what we’re all looking for. Well that’s what we’re all looking for. And you know I think religion whether you choose to go with a god a or a B or C is basically a way to have a faith in something that keeps you grounded. Yes.

00:24:32

It gives you purpose your purpose gives you direction. Yes it gives you direction and some would say it also gives some social control.

00:24:40

Yes but we won’t get into that right now fester. We can stay away from that.

00:24:44

That’s a whole different gas deal. Yeah. And I think that is so true that we all want the same things in life. We want to have guidance. We want to be grounded. We want to have a happy healthy family we want our kids to do well it doesn’t matter what religion you come from. It really does air you live in the world.

00:25:02

Yes that’s true. And so that’s been the learning that I’ve experienced. And you know so going back to you know the effort it takes to put all the preparation in for every festival it takes effort to put together presence and wrap them for Christmas and put them under a tree.

00:25:20

Yes. It takes effort for figuring out OK if we’re going to make a Thanksgiving dinner and it’s not Indian what are we going to do which is fun and different.

00:25:29

And if we’re going to do the Indian Diwali dinner you know what are we doing this year which is going to hold up our values and beliefs and the right of passage or the right of rituals that we’ve been practicing for so many years but which still keeps it alive.

00:25:44

It’s a very conscious living. It is. I like that I kind of live by the fly by the seat of my pants a lot of the time in life.

00:25:52

And I just kind of like let life roll over me and it’s funny because like with Christmas I guess maybe November 1st or the middle of November will roll around and I’ll be like oh it’s almost Christmas.

00:26:03

And my husband says you know Christmas comes the same time every year.

00:26:07

Yes.

00:26:10

But you just kind of let it go. You know I’d like this deliberate living philosophy.

00:26:15

It helps it help keeps your sanity it helps keeps the families and the kids sanity. Because you’re celebrating everything around you. Yes. Yes absolutely. And which is basically in a nutshell you’re celebrating life love.

00:26:31

So that’s what it is. That’s the basis that’s Diwali. That’s that’s everything.

00:26:35

It’s celebrating life. I mean you know even for our prayers we have certain things that we always use is always going to be a small trough of water. There always has to be white grains of rice and the red chemical powder and flowers and then the red thread known as Melanie. So these are the very basics in your Puja or prayer plate so to speak which you then offer to God and of course then there are flowers there is fruits there’s no nuts and there are Indian sweets and that those are all the things that come together afterwards. But you have the very basic and so you know for us it’s making sure we have all of our prep ahead of time. And you know things are done because the valley is never on the same day each year it goes by the lunar calendar. OK. So knowing when it’s going to follow making sure you have everything you need ahead of that you know and we wear new clothes on that day. Well that’s fun. Yeah. So really try and keep everything brand new as well. So making sure everybody has something new to wear. And you know of course then it’s just it takes it takes a whole day for me from cooking in the morning I would say to the prayers in the evening. It’s exhausting exhausting.

00:27:50

And when you’re not a kid anymore has you’re running a show. I know what that’s like.

00:27:55

Yes it can get really exhausting. But then at the end of the day when you look back at what you’ve done you’re like we did it again. You know we pulled it off and we didn’t let go of anything. We held onto everything we had. And the kids start tuning in as well. Each year more and more with you and it brings everyone together as a family.

00:28:16

I love that. That’s amazing. Yeah.

00:28:18

So I hope the people that live in the area or anywhere that are not Indian have learned something from this for sure. I hope so yeah because people hear about different holidays and different religions but you know we’re just not exposed to right the details.

00:28:33

So I think that this is really great because it’s also going to give people a different perspective of understanding and acceptance not just tolerance.

00:28:42

I hate that word but acceptance rate it’s acceptance and it’s you know celebration of us being us. And then when it’s your turn. We get to celebrate you being you. I love it. I love it. That’s what life is all about. That’s what it’s about. You know and the way I see it is you get one life to live. The choices how do you want to live it. Right.

00:29:03

Well that’s the subject of a whole nother part. Yes we could definitely talk about that forever. Yeah. Yeah. I’m going to have you another time so that we can talk about your books because you know with all of this knowledge of Diwali and all of your culture you’re a writer an amazing writer and a writer. So you have a lot to share about.

00:29:23

I mean Diwali is so huge. It’s so big you can’t cross the months of October November without bringing it up. And so the debut and my series duty and desire. There is an entire segment of the book devoted to the festival and how it brings together this very very uncertain unsure relationship. Now does it bring it to fruition or does it bring it bring it to destruction. That’s the other part of it. But you know these are the things with festivals for example if you’re a writer yourself and you are Sheryl if you were if your story is taking place in December or November you have to write about Thanksgiving.

00:30:02

It’s integral to everything that people do. It’s integral.

00:30:05

You can’t skip over it. Right. So what I’ve done is I’ve used several festivals major festivals in Books one and two in the series in the Winds of Fire series and I’ve used them to actually propel the momentum. I would say the momentum and the feel of how the characters interact with each other because it’s so natural for things to come together during festivals.

00:30:30

Yeah absolutely.

00:30:32

So it’s it’s a question of you know as an author how do you handle it. So there’s a lot of details about Diwali . There’s a lot of details about what goes into the preparation which you can always read about in there from dressing up to and if you can imagine this gorgeous Priyanka Chopra dressing up for Diwali.

00:30:51

Well the story right there. Absolutely.

00:30:54

And you know so those are the the detail the level of details that I’ve gone into all the festivals that it’s woven into the fabric because it’s so a part of our lives.

00:31:04

Well I cannot wait to hear more about the books. That’s very exciting. Yeah. So yeah I’ll have you back on again we’ll go in really deep depth about the stories because everything that you’ve told me about that I’m just wow I’ve got to read this. So I appreciate you coming here just to talk about Diwali and this wonderful festive month and.

00:31:25

Look forward to having you. Thank you so much. And I really enjoyed this.

00:31:29

Thank you. Happy to future.

00:31:39

If you like this podcast so far please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it. Go on the awesome and leave a rating and a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S. Par bhoo. That’s p a r b h o o. Thanks for listening to Southern life Indian wife.

The post Diwali primer with author Anju Gattani [podcast] appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

Today previous podcast guest Heather Dobson joins me once again; in our last conversation we discussed life, chasing ghosts, and some of her more astonishing experiences with Paranormal Georgia Investigators. This time around, Heather and I examine our writing processes; she poured a lot of herself into her book, Memoirs of a Future Ghost, we talk at length about the therapeutic process of spilling your guts out onto the page for both non-fiction and fiction stories.

Heather tells me how writing her memoir was therapeutic for her (2:05), we discuss how there’s always some nugget of truth in every book–even fiction (4:37), why we both disguise some real life characters in our writing (11:49), how we’re constantly learning–especially through bad experiences (17:05), why we both thrive on alone time as writers (19:55), how eating chocolate and watching 80s TV–especially TJ Hooker–helps Heather cope with writing about tough subjects (22:25), we discuss some of our favorite memoirs we read and why Heather is obsessed with British royals (23:20), and we offer up some advice for aspiring authors (31:54) including the reality that its perfectly OK to suck (34:33)!

Learn all about Heather Dobson and get your signed copy of Memoirs of a Future Ghost, find her here: Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and her website and Paranormal Georgia Investigators.

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple  Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Tunein. Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagram and Twitter!

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid.

00:00:07

And I am fiercely proud of both. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Prabhoo and this is Southern Life Indian Wife. Well here we go again. Yes ma’am. Welcome back to Southern Life Indian Wife thank you for having me.

00:00:25

So if you’re new to the podcast you didn’t hear my earlier episode with Heather Dobson but Heather Dobson is an author there is her book. There’s my baby ‘Memoirs of a Future Ghost’ and she is also a dear friend of mine, a former neighbor, and a paranormal investigator. I look for ghosts. Yes. And in our earlier episode we just talked about just different things about her life. What it’s like to chase ghosts and what it’s like to hear a ghost say which totally freaked me out. But today we’re going to talk about what it was like to write our books. Yes and why we wrote our books because she wrote a memoir. And I wrote a novel. This was my first book ‘The Unexpected Daughter’. And even though it’s fiction it’s very memoir- esque. I put a lot of myself into it and I know you put everything all yes into your memoir into mine. Yeah. And so we’re going to talk about why we writers write what we do. And my theory is that we’re pretty crazy. Yes I think there’s like a whole lot of wacky mental illness that goes into wanting to write a book Taking the time out of your life to write a book. Yes. And the stuff that we put in it. Yes very much so. Yeah. So basically when I when I do talks about my book I just tell people that it was cheaper to write the book than therapy. Yes. And in a way it was because writing the book was cheap. Now the editing and all of that stuff was not cheap. We don’t need to talk about that. So was writing memoirs of a future ghost kind of therapeutic for you.

00:02:04

It was very therapeutic. And honestly for me investigating the paranormal was my first set of therapy my first round of therapy because you know I had. If you listen to the previous podcast you know I talked about my anxiety with death and you know my issues with that. And so I needed to investigate the paranormal to understand what death is all about. And so you know the writing my book was very therapeutic and in a in a sense that I could take that anxiety and show it to other people so that maybe they don’t feel so alone and and share that and help them understand you’re not alone. You know when it’s dark at night and you’re laying in bed and your mind is racing it’s OK. There are other people out there going through the same thing. And there are answers. Ok so yeah yeah that makes sense.

00:02:54

And you know one of the reasons that I wrote my novel was for the same reason you know part of it was purging all of my ghosts and the demons and stuff I couldn’t say to people right. Right. But I disguised it in fun ways with fictional characters. I love that. Yeah it was so fun. But a lot of it is you know showing people that they’re not alone.

00:03:18

The book is about you know an intercultural relationship and family with Indian tradition and how it clashes with Southern white culture and you know these crazy people. Right. But you don’t have to be Indian or Southern to get something out of it.

00:03:32

Right. Exactly. And I think even to just just something as not so different as Indian vs. Southern American just a Southerner marrying a Yankee yes or you know just anything like that. There is such a culture clash even within our own country and sometimes I feel that with my husband a little bit because you know I’m a hillbilly and he’s a good Southern boy and it’s like Yeah there’s a big difference there is a big difference but no. And that’s good that you were able to write that. And and you know show other people who are in multicultural relationships or even just whether it’s a marriage or just dating or just friends to you know share that with people.

00:04:17

Yeah. And I think that’s the beauty of any kind of book whether it’s a memoir or fiction. You know you put yourself in somebody else’s shoes and you see or feel a part of yourself in whatever you’re reading right and you bring something of yourself that’s different than even what the author intended. Right.

00:04:34

Think what I always feel like there’s a nugget of truth in every book whether it’s fiction or nonfiction you know or especially it’s nonfiction. But if it’s fiction there’s the author is always in there somewhere. And I remember you know back in college reading ‘Interview with a Vampir’e by Anne Rice. It was the best book. Absolutely adored that book. And then later on reading that you know her daughter had died from leukemia. Oh and so the character of the little girl vampire I can’t remember her name for the life of me. That was her daughter Kirsten Dunst. Yeah yeah. The actress. But that was her daughter. That was her way of keeping her daughter alive.

00:05:12

OK. And so it was like OK even in a book about vampires there’s a piece of the author’s life in that book and you know that turns you on to reading. Exactly. And it makes you want to read it and find out more about that person.

00:05:28

Yeah. And I I always feel like there’s such a power to stories whether they’re in a or you know stories being told on a podcast or even a series that you binge watch on Netflix. There’s that power to stories right. People crave. Right. So let’s just kind of give a rundown on each of the books so that people that are listening and watching kind of know what we’re talking about. Yeah. So you go first.

00:05:54

So Memoirs of a future ghost it’s about my experiences as a paranormal investigator. It actually started out as a much longer book twice the size. So I cut it in half. The second book will be out next summer.

00:06:05

And this book starts out with my childhood growing up in West Virginia in the land of the paranormal and really exploring my anxiety over death and how I coped with that by joining an investigative group. And the second book will cover more of those investigations. But some of the investigations are in here and the experiences I’ve had the ghosts I’ve seen and that type of thing.

00:06:27

So well ok. I’ve been to one of your presentations with the video and the audio from your investigations. And I wanted to cry.

00:06:37

Yeah yeah. So my hat goes off doing that. Thank you.

00:06:43

Wow. OK so the unexpected daughter is. It’s got three main characters.

00:06:48

It’s about Jenny who is a young dentist from south Georgia who goes to dental school in Memphis and she meets this very dashing handsome Indian guy who’s in her class and he’s just kind of you know he’s just kind of a party guy. They just become friends and do their study dates and the night of their graduation they consummate their secret crushes. There you go. They had on each other. So basically they hook up and they wake up the next morning and they’re like oh crap what did we do. And they’re trying to the wrestling with their feelings. She knows he’s already engaged in an arranged marriage to an Indian woman and she wants nothing to do with having a relationship but she’s like OK I really like this guy.

00:07:37

Well what cinches it for her is that she’s getting ready you know getting ready to do the walk of shame clean up in the bathroom and his mother with her dangly bangles and a Hall of Food uses her key to let herself into his apartment to deliver her breakfast love away. Yes and of no boundaries no boundaries. So of course Jenny is looking like the ho to this traditional Indian mob. And very ago they they just decide they cannot have a relationship. Oh I don’t know if I mentioned the other characters names. Rosen is the guy and his mother’s name is Aesha. And so Roshen goes this separate way have goes ahead through with his arranged marriage. He and his wife and his mother have a traditional Indian life living together. Jenny goes off and does her thing and makes her money at her practice and doesn’t have a man in her life.

00:08:37

She’s she just doesn’t have time for that.

00:08:39

And she and Roshen meet back up again a decade later at a dental conference which is very similar to a dental conference that’s held here in Atlanta Georgia either and two and seen a few scandalous things perfect.

00:08:53

And they hook back up there and the rest just turns into tragedy and deceit and love and passion and all kinds of fun stuff. That’s awesome. Yes that is my novel. Yes. And it’s a good one. I think read it and read ‘Memoirs of a Future Ghost. Absolutely. So let’s talk a little bit about being crazy. YES! We authors are crazy. You know most people know about the famous earning Ernest Hemingway how he was an alcoholic and he committed suicide. And he wrote his books while he was drunk. He suffered from all of this depression. You know writing was part of either contributing to or purging his mental illness. And I don’t know he’s not here to talk about it. And for me writing the unexpected daughter was similar to that because I was raising five kids trying to figure out who I was wrestling with. All of this cultural Indian stuff with my Indian husband and mother in law and father in law and a bunch of kids and going through a tough time in my marriage and so totally it was therapy and I would sit down and cry when I was writing this book. Yeah. So was it like that for you.

00:10:09

It was because not only was it you know not only am I talking about the investigations I’ve gone on but you know I also talked about my father’s death in here. There’s also some mother daughter issues that I go through and I remember the chapter about my father’s death. And writing it and sending it off to our editor. Yeah. We share an editor. His name is Wayne and he’s amazing. Yes. I don’t know what I’d do without him. And the response I got from him was I want more. And I remember crying while I was writing this chapter you know giving him more. And you know sent you know after I finished it I gorged on chocolate and and sent him an e-mail and I was like I’m done. I love you but I’m done. That’s all I can give. Right. Exactly. And it still makes me cry. I mean I read the chapter to my grandmother who’s blind and can’t read on her own and unfortunately I don’t have this on audio for her and so I read that chapter to her and cried again. And so it’s very therapeutic to get that out there and share that and and to be able to like I said you know share that with people and let them know that they’re not alone. It’s you know it’s been 21 years and I still cry over his death.

00:11:25

So yeah that that’s got to be really really hard. It is. And OK since this is a memoir and we all know that if you don’t know a memoir is about a theme or a part of your life it’s not an autobiography and they’re characters in your life that participate in these stories exactly when you can’t name these people you have to disguise these people I have to disguise the Michael our clients the Paranormal Georgia’s clients you know my fellow investigators they’re like Oh heck yeah use my name.

00:11:54

So when you see the name Jordan or Tammy or Clint. Those are real people and those are their real names.

00:12:01

But when you when you read about the client who believed aliens were landing in his backyard and his name is Fox Well his name really isn’t Fox. Yeah you know crazy like a fox… well Fox Mulder. More like taking it from Fox Mulder. It could be crazy. Yeah. You know some of the genders I’ve I’ve changed towns they lived in. I’ve changed because you know I don’t want people and I don’t want them to recognize themselves in this book. You know some investigations I combined. OK. You know and and merged and yeah so I did have to create characters know the settings happened. And my second book there’s a chapter about investigating a driveway Why. Yes I investigated a driveway.

00:12:51

So somebody had a ghost walking up and down their driveway. How do you tell because there’s no doors.

00:12:56

Oh I know right. Exactly. No floors to create. Exactly. Yeah. So. But you know I changed the name of the couple when I changed the location and I know the dialogue is a little bit different. But yes I investigated a driveway Inn in Atlanta. OK there you go.

00:13:14

You know to each his own. Exactly. Yeah whatever. Wow. Well were there any instance instances in there where you felt like you were going to offend somebody maybe not a client. Probably in your life. And yeah. Did that worry you did that give you anxiety.

00:13:33

I would say that the biggest anxiety with this with this book is just the previous investigative team that I was a member of the person who founded that team and ran it for a long time is I mean a nice person overall if you were to meet her you would think she was nice but she didn’t have very good managerial skills honestly. And so I changed her name I changed the name of the investigative group but she will know that it’s her. OK. And I do worry about her response if she’s going to have a response or shall even read it yet. Maybe she will maybe she won’t but that’s about it.

00:14:10

But if she’s depicted as you know not a likable person perhaps she won’t come out because people don’t want to claim oh that’s me that’s total I like an ass in the book that’s totally me.

00:14:20

Yeah you know and then I do mention in passing you know because this book does talk about my childhood I feel a little bit about my teenage years so I do mentioned in passing the not so great freshman roomate I had in college and I know she’s reading the book because she bought a copy from me. You know I mentioned in passing that. You know Junior High was great high school was awful because of some of my friends and I know a couple of those friends of ordered OK ordered copies of the book. So it’s like I don’t I don’t call people out by name but I do I am honest and that you know people made my life a little bit difficult. And so it’s OK. I hope you still like it. Yeah well that that’s that’s the hard part about a memoir is that I mean you know you’re trying to be honest but you can’t you know you have to bear that honest. You have to put it out there and you can’t hide it. And you know even though you’re not mentioning names sometimes that person is going to read it. Know that that was them. They were the cause of that.

00:15:20

And you know you you talk about how you have to bear the results of that honesty. And for me I had this story that had to get out about sort of the things that I was going through. But the reason I put it into fiction right form is because I couldn’t bear it yet. Right. And I remember when I was writing the book I didn’t tell anybody I was writing a book. Most of my friends didn’t didn’t even know that I had a blog. Yeah. But I was writing all of these things and it was easier for me to put my life out there for the online world. The international world there for me to talk about it with my neighbors. Right at the pool or you know happy hour. Right. And I would sit in Starbucks working on this dang book for three or four years isolated but I’m working out my stories and turning these characters into fictional characters that no one would recognize and I wasn’t even willing to come out of the closet and say I was writing because I was afraid of the reaction that people were going to give me. Right. Either they were going to say you’re a fraud and you can’t write a book and it sucks. You have no right to do this. Exactly. Or you’re writing about me. And the stuff that I was writing about it was all this family stuff like you know because my husband is Indian he’s very Americanized but we still had so many differences and you know how you relate to parents you know what role do your parents have. Can your parents come into your house you know with their house key and walk in on you know when you’re just getting out the shower. Right now we have those issues but I couldn’t write that right. Exactly. So I had to turn the in-laws into even crazier people. Right.

00:16:58

That they’re not recognizable. Yeah. There is a grain of truth in there. Definitely definitely. But here’s the thing. Even though you know even though there are instances in this book that may not you know and people in this book that may not look their best because of what happened I have a very wise sorority sister. Like she had the mentality of a 100 year old when she was a teenager. And it’s because of her that you know I feel like I’ve learned a lot of good life lessons from her Laurie and I’m talking about you as human beings we learn constantly and even when bad things happen you’re learning now the woman that I talk about who ran the previous paranormal investigative group do I want to go out and have a beer with her. Not really but I learned from her and I learned valuable things from that experience and I appreciate that. Yes. That I’ve learned from that. And you know whether she meant to or not you know we were all providing life lessons for the people around us. And even if it’s negative in nature I appreciate what I took away from that relationship with her. And I thank her for that.

00:18:08

Yeah yeah. There’s a place in your world in your universe for that to have happened.

00:18:13

Exactly. And so and that’s fine that’s fine.

00:18:16

And it’s it’s very therapeutic. Yes. Just get it out there on the paper. Exactly. I was going go into therapy during the time that I was writing this. And I mean my therapist was good and a lot of ways but she would downplay the role of what this writing had for me in my life. Yeah and I would say look you know this is my story. I’m getting it out there. I cry when I do it. But you know it’s good. It’s out. And she would say you know what is going to fix you. You need to just go get a corporate job. Quit writing a book and make yourself feel useful in the real world. And I was like Honey you don’t know you’re talking to a writer I can’t not write.

00:18:55

No. Yeah yeah go on to her and I just finished the damn book. Good. Good for you. Good for you because yeah I you know my one of my favorite movies is clerks and one of my favorite quotes from clerks is you know you hate people but I love gatherings. And that’s that’s me. It’s not that you know I just I don’t like interacting with people on a daily basis. And that’s what great about writing is that I can interact with people from afar and corporate job would not.

00:19:23

No not me. Not at all. No but you know you talk about how you aren’t interacting with people on a daily basis when you’re writing. And for me that’s a good thing you know because I’m in my head and writing but also it fed into that crazy and it still does because I’m writing another book and maybe I’m just crazy. Thank you. There you go. That’s very well that’s OK. But when you’re sitting there in front of the laptop by yourself you’re in this world and you’re in a room with the windows closed you know the shades closed or whatever it is isolating and there have been times when I’ve gotten depressed because I’m just there by myself and I’m trying to get this done.

00:20:00

So does it ever have that opposite effect for you.

00:20:04

I feel very refreshed after I write. I feel reenergized because I thrive on that alone time. Mm hmm. You know being with people I mean I enjoy being with people like I’m going to go out to dinner with some girlfriends Thursday night and I’m going to enjoy that but then I’m going to need to come home and not talk to anyone for a couple of hours. And so when I write you know I’ve got my little corner and I can see outside and I can see the trees and I play my 40s music you know so I got I got bingo on and I got Frank going and I’m on his own and it makes me very happy. And I would say I get depressed when I go back and reread my stuff because then I’m like this is crap crap. This is ridiculous. I hate. It sounded fabulous when I was right and then I and then I don’t even touch my desk for days and days. So I feel like if I write I’m good. If I go back and read that’s bad. Yeah. Yeah. I can’t reread it. It’s just it’s just going to have to go to Wayne no matter the state it’s in. Yeah. I’ve used him for that. Yeah. In fact the second book I just sent my second book to edits and there was a chapter that I was really excited about writing I was going to be such a fun chapter. It’s crap. Guys it’s awful. I hate that chapter and in fact I sent it to him with a comment that said I hate this chapter. I hate this chapter. I’ve no idea what’s going to happen to it but we’ll see.

00:21:30

He’s going to give you some uplifting comment. Yeah. Exactly. Basically a forever. Yeah. You do it you do it. But you know then he’ll help you. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah well you know the writing. You know I get depressed sometimes I get sort of you know this is fantastic but maybe I just need to take a little more Prozac and just move forward. Maybe that’ll help me just finish the book two Zoloft today and yeah it’s just one maybe a glass of wine that would be bad. That would be bad. I don’t know. You probably know the phrase that people attribute to Ernest Hemingway but he didn’t really say it. Right. Drunk at it sober. Yeah I’ve. I have written after like the third glass of wine. But you know it is amazing in the moment and then the next day it’s crap it’s crap.

00:22:18

Yeah. Well for me I’m not a big drinker. I’ve never really enjoyed alcohol. So for me it’s more I drink or I write and I edit sober but like you know the chapter about my father the chapter where I talk about you know my family getting blown up when I was twelve years old. You know that’s. I write that. And then I go get a large quantity of chocolate and I watch reruns of T.J. Hooker T.J. Hooker I haven’t thought about that show and gosh I love that show. So that’s that’s my therapy. OK. OK. I’ve put that on paper and that was horrifying. And so now I’m going to go eat chocolate and watch crappy 80s TV. Awesome awesome. So that’s what I do.

00:23:02

That sounds like fun. Yeah. So are there any memoirs that you’ve read before that you really like. Did anything hire you to write this I’ve got a few.

00:23:12

Well it’s funny because the memoirs that I like to read are about the British royal family because I’m obsessed with Are you royalty. Oh my gosh you know A.S. Margaret. Queen Elizabeth the Duchess of York. I just love it all.

00:23:28

What is it that you love about them? Because I look at them on TV and I’m like you know what they think they’re all that and I just you know they’re involved in the sex trafficking scandal.

00:23:36

I know Prince Andrew is really disappointing me right now. They’re already. But what’s behind it all. But I don’t know. I guess it’s just because as an American you know there is no monarchy either. It’s it’s just the idea of this family that is royalty simply due to birth right. And you know sparkly jewels might have something to do with it. Yeah pretty dresses and the titles but I don’t know. And so I would have to say that those are my favorite biographies and memoirs to read. My favorite non-fiction author is Bill Bryson and he’s written you know he’s written about language he’s written about England. He’s written about his life. He wrote a book about science like this crazy huge book you know coming from a man who knows nothing about science. He wrote about everything science he wrote about the home you know why do we call for your why do we call it the kitchen why do we wire certain things the way they are in our homes anyway all these things that I’ve never once given a thought I know but it’s exactly. Well he was born in Kansas and he. He’s lived his adult life in the UK so he’s got this funny sort of Midwestern sensibility with a British sense of humor. And I love his stuff like if I could write like him my day would be made. He’s my favorite non-fiction slash memoir author.

00:25:03

Okay so yeah. So you like to read about the upper class stay up above where he laughs and I like to read about the people that are coming from the down India. Yeah maybe it’s because I like to feel a little superior. There you go. Yeah but the class castle walls right. You read that. No I haven’t. That is about a woman who comes from the coal hills of West Virginia. Interesting. You know the interesting upbringing that she has with parents who you know I don’t know if she comes out and says it but I’m assuming that they have mental illness and they end up living in.

00:25:41

I think they’re squatters in a apartment in New York City. And when she discovers her mother going through the trash as she’s on her way to a gala for I don’t I don’t remember all the details but she’s an editor you know a high priced editor in New York City right. So I like and my family’s from Kentucky and they’re not from the hills of Kentucky but they’re good people. Yeah. You know my mom said that some of her relatives just a generation ago lived with chickens in their house. Right. So that’s that’s where they came from. Right. And then hillbilly LG OK. JT Vance OK you read this now it’s a must read. It’s been kind of panned by critics because they people say that he doesn’t really give an accurate portrayal of what the hillbilly life was in Kentucky right. But I just like it because I can relate to it. And there’s a lot of good that isn’t there there’s a lot of truth in there. And I think even if I don’t think any memoir is a complete truth. No. And his is not a complete truth. But it has meaning and it has a story to write. And you know he came from beginnings that were more meager than mine and so I do feel a little bit like I didn’t have it quite so well and I.

00:27:03

And you know you know talking about those books it’s it’s you know my my paternal grandfather was a coal miner and he died from black lung. And I have coal mining you know family cousins who you know had siblings who died from a spinal meningitis outbreak due to flooding of Paint Creek in West Virginia. And just so I guess maybe that’s why I don’t enjoy reading those stories because even though I personally did not grow up in a coal mining town you know I heard those stories as a child growing up from my father and my cousins and it’s like OK Queen Elizabeth make my day better. Yeah yeah talk to me about your nannies and yes all that stuff is a little too close to home yeah I’m good. Yeah yeah definitely. I’m gonna do what makes you feel good.

00:27:54

Exactly yeah. Have you done any book clubs. Because I do book clubs with my novel. Yeah. I have not. OK. So if you’re listening or watching you definitely need to have your book club read memoirs of a future ghost. But when you do when you do do do a book club you’re going to get questions and there’s gonna be common questions that readers will ask you. Right. There’s just seems to be themes that come from everybody. So I just wanted to share some of those.

00:28:24

The very first question that I get from people across the board is how much of this book is the true story. Right. And none of that’s the true story right. Based on feelings it’s based on things that I’ve learned but none of it is true. It’s fiction right.

00:28:38

And so we need to make that clarification for people. Novel is fiction novel is fiction right. It’s not real memoir nonfiction. It’s real it’s real. Yes. So just so people know that because everybody isn’t they don’t remember everything from eighth grade English.

00:28:53

Exactly yeah. Or I know I don’t know for sure and people will tell me Oh I learned a lot about Indian food and Indian culture which is kind of cool. Yeah. So you know that makes me well.

00:29:06

And I would say too it’s almost like. And that’s a good thing especially in the United States considering that we have so much exposure to Chinese culture because of the 19th century influx of Chinese immigrants and Italian culture and you know south of the border you know Mexican Central American but Indian really isn’t a culture that most Southern Americans are exposed to. Yeah. And so that’s your book has done an amazing thing with exposing everyone to that side of the world.

00:29:40

So yeah I guess so it really has provided some sort of education. Yes. And you know talking about how people are not really familiar with Indian culture. It blew me away and really came into focus last week when there’s a book reviewer author Facebook group and a bunch of authors did giveaways on this group. And you were supposed to tell about your book and then ask your potential readers a question and their answer to the question was the entry to the contest only a free book from you right. And so my question was I told him about the Indian culture and the story and I said What is your favorite Indian food. And if you’ve never tried it why the heck not right. And I would say over 50 percent maybe even closer to 75 percent of the people and this is international members. I’ve never tried Indian food. Oh wow. What is Indian food. And I’m like What. How is that even possible because I’ve been living in this for you know almost 30 years how horrible.

00:30:44

Well I had an older family member who I mentioned your book to them and they thought I was talking about Native Americans also in her mind she’s thinking you’re married to like a Cherokee gentleman or something I’m like No Yeah India Indian people are pretty misinformed right.

00:31:01

You know this is probably going to offend somebody but it is something that people say when South Asian Indian people to be funny when they’re asked Oh what tribe are you from.

00:31:13

They’ll say No no no no “I’m dot not feather”. It’s not meant to offend. There you go have to put it on the level that some people can understand exotic not necessarily because they’re stupid they just haven’t learned right.

00:31:25

Exact Yeah I ran into someone at a school who was a recent anthropologyh Ph D. OK. Wow. Told him about my story was very clear in the details of my life my story. Mm hmm. South Asian culture. And he asked me. Oh. After the whole thing.

00:31:45

What tribe is your husband from?

00:31:50

I don’t know where he got that PhD from. It’s like a blank blank blank blank. So would you give any advice to anyone that comes up to you because this is gonna happen. Oh you’re an author I’ve always wanted to write a book. You’re an author. I’ve always wanted to write a book. Here’s the story. Would you like to hear it and they tell you. If you have somebody come up to you and say really I’ve wanted to do what you do.

00:32:13

Yeah. How do I do it. It’s funny because I had no idea how to do it. When I started doing it almost three years ago it was just and I had known for a long time that I wanted to write and I had talked to you and you had mentioned Oh yeah I’m writing a book and I’m like How is she doing that?? Five kids! Because she’s crazy and she drinks wine. And so honestly having you tell me you were writing a book was like What is my damage like why can’t I write a book. What’s my problem. If Sheryl can do it why can’t I do it you know because she’s so busy and her and I think even at the time weren’t you going back to school. I was home my I was so full time student teaching yeah… stay at home mom student teaching going to school writing a book I was like. Yeah. But. All I’m doing is watching T.J. Hooker. OK why can’t I write a book. And so my read my my my advice to people would be to start writing don’t don’t think about it. Pick what you want to write and even if you haven’t chosen even if you’re like wow do I do a memoir do I do a romance. Do I do a miss a murder mystery. Just start putting down chapters just in turn you know start with short stories start with a chapter idea and start building from there. And talk to other writers. That was what I was going to say. Go community go go. You know to talk to people about you know your process and not everybody’s process is the same but if you you know pick and choose from what works for other people it might work for you as well. And when you start getting that community going. Of other writers that’s when you get editors. That’s when you oh you know I need to know if you decide to self publish OK I need to do this to market my book. I need to do that I need to do the legwork. But it definitely helps to have that community to talk to and to also encourage you. But I mean the first step is always the step that you have to take of sitting down at your computer or sitting down with your notebook and getting it on paper.

00:34:24

Yeah I think giving yourself permission. Right. And it’s OK to get it out. It’s OK to get it out. It’s OK to suck. It’s OK to write.

00:34:32

Crappy stuff. I mean because I have a whole book at home of really bad poetry. That’s what I started out doing. Oh it’s really bad. It’s never going to see the light of day by the way that’s like in my will burn me with the book. Yeah. But it’s to go away. Yeah but you know it’s it’s OK and it’s OK to have those notebooks of things that you put aside that never see the light of day because it does take practice. It’s like playing the piano it’s like doing embroidery it takes practice. Yeah. And the more you do it the better you get at it.

00:35:05

Oh definitely. Absolutely. Yeah yeah. And if you’re somebody who isn’t interested in writing because there’s a whole lot of people out there that that’s just not their thing. Right. But you’re feeling crazy and you need to know that somebody else out there is going through things memoirs and you know fiction they’re just such a great resource. Yes.

00:35:24

So you know if there’s somebody out there right now that’s struggling with their fear of death or really curious about you know the things that go bump in the night in their house they need to read your book because they know that you’ve been through that. Right. Exactly. And anybody that might be going through you know marriage family issues you know there’s all kinds of issues going on and my crazy book because so pretty much you know pick your crazy poison and it’s in there. All right. You know you get something out of that. Exactly. Yes. So I guess the message is pick up a book just pick up a book and helps you so much mentally and if you’re inclined write one.

00:35:58

And yeah it’s great there and you’re going to find and definitely read as an author you should still be reading and you know you’re going to find voices that really appeal to you. And like Jenny Lawson she started out as a blogger. The blog yes. And I love her stuff. She cracks me up. I was reading her back before she published her first book. Let’s pretend this never happened and you know I love her voice would I love to be her. Probably not. Because when we talk about depression and anxiety and that kind of thing she’s got it in spades. But I would love to have her voice like her voice appeals to me so much. And so you know don’t plagiarize your favorite authors but you know find a voice of an author that you like and try that voice on for size and and see when it’s mixed with your voice does that work for you and that type of thing.

00:36:52

So yeah I agree. You know if you’re even if you’re not a writer that’s so key in finding a book that you connect with. Yeah you can just tell in the first few pages. Maybe a great story but oh I don’t like the writing style right. Or it may have a fantastic writing style and you weren’t necessarily interested in the story but you get hooked right.

00:37:09

You just have to find that right. Yeah OK. So what’s next for you. You have another.

00:37:14

Yeah I’ve got. So the second book will be ‘Recollections of a Future Ghost’ and its continuation of this and it’s more about the investigations that I’ve done and just the different scenarios that I’ve had to come up against investigating the paranormal. And I think you know what inspired me to do this book was in the first place was just watching the paranormal reality shows that are anything like reality Ha ha. You know I’m not like Zak Bagans I don’t get possessed every investigation you know. I don’t we don’t always find evidence and most the time the living is more interesting and more scary than the dead. I can definitely see that and more tragic. And so you know I wanted to write books that were more of a reality about investigating the paranormal than what you see on Saturday night television. And so I’ve got and there will be a third book so there will be a trilogy of sorts and then actually I Ah ah I already have an idea for my fourth book which won’t be anything like this or the other two. It would be more in line with the unexpected daughter of pulling for my wife and my experiences and writing a fictional novel. So that sounds exciting too. Yeah well I don’t know. They’re there. You know it’s like it’s that moment of I know people are gonna recognize themselves and it’s like I’ll make them happy but I gotta get it out.

00:38:47

Well yeah you gotta get it out and you just make sure that you talk to an attorney and make sure you cover yes but nobody can sue you.

00:38:55

But I’ve changed genders and names.

00:38:58

But yeah so that I actually Yeah I’m already because as an author that’s that’s the other hard part about being an author it’s like you can’t really bask in this glow.

00:39:07

No you’ve got to have number two in the works and then number three and then haha yeah you’ve got people like me saying OK you just put this book out what’s next what’s next. Yeah yeah. And I’ve taken gosh it’s two years since ‘The Unexpected Daughter’ was published and has taken me that long to almost finished my second book. Right. So I’m a little behind the game right. But my next book is a memoir and it’s gonna be called ‘Southern Life Indian Wife’ just like the podcast. Excellent. And that is the true story in that you know people ask me that after book clubs when is the true story. Well if you’ve read the unexpected daughter you’re going to love the memoir because it starts the night that my husband and I get divorced. That’s the scene where he comes home from a court with the court documents.

00:39:56

He comes home not to an apartment. He comes home because he still lives with us. Right. And we look at each other and we’re friends and then we huff and puff and turn away from each other and that’s it. And then it’s the story of how we met. And struggled I struggled through the Indian culture here in the south and our divorce and the stalker that let himself into my house which was super fun. Oh my gosh yeah. And how we both were able to kind of be apart and find out who we were. And then I won’t tell you the rest but it’s happy.

00:40:33

Yeah yeah. And so that should be out in a few months. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Okay. And I probably will be drinking wine or taking Prozac or one or the other because I need to do that. Yes. Writing is therapy. But then the books is done and you have to move on to something else. Exactly. Those demons. Exactly. Well thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Your horse your process. Thank you ma’am. Yes. I hope to have you again. Of course I would love to come back.

00:41:00

Best of luck with ‘Memoirs of a Future Ghost’ and it’ll be on my Web site where you can find signed copies yes where you can order it from and where you can see Heather in events. Yes most definitely.

00:41:22

If you like this podcast so far. Please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it go on be awesome and leave a rating and a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S.. Par bhoo. That’s p a r b h o o. Thanks for listening to ‘Southern Life. Indian Wife.’

The post It’s OK to suck! The therapeutic qualities of memoir writing [podcast] appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

Imagine moving from the US to India in your late 20s for work, only to fall in love with the people and their culture; now imagine meeting and marrying an Indian man who spent his late 20s in the United States. That experience would likely give you and your husband a fairly unique worldview to say the least.

This week I’m joined by Jessica Kumar who, along with husband Abhishek, co-hosts The Invisible India Podcast which highlights lesser known facts of Indian culture from the perspective of a returning NRI–non-resident Indian–and an American living in India. Abhishek and Jessica are a cross-cultural couple exploring the mysteries of Indian culture and current social issues through conducting interviews with various experts, sharing personal experiences. 

We discuss Jessica’s move from Chicago to India (1:16), her exposure to Indian culture (6:38), meeting her future husband (9:11), how she and Abhishek have blended their cultures (13:20), how they’ve adapted despite most in husband’s family coming from arranged marriages (16:41), their strategy for revealing mixed-relationship to traditional Indian family (22:47), Jessica provides some choice advice for individuals going through a similar journey (25:25), she reveals the biggest-positive impact Indian culture has had on her life (28:24), the conscious vs unconscious changes she’s noticed after years of exposure to Indian culture (30:06), finally Jessica lays out her long-term goals for The Invisible India Podcast (32:51).

You can find Jessica and The Invisible India Podcast everywhere you download podcasts (iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, etc) and on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook.  

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts  and TuneIn. Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagramand Twitter! And…email me at sherylparbhoo@gmail.com to order a signed copy of my book The Unexpected Daughter.

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid and I am fiercely proud of both. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Parbhoo and this is Southern Life Indian Wife.

00:00:20

Jessica. I just wanted to welcome you to the show thanks so much for being here. Thank you so much.

00:00:26

I’m really glad to hear you so I’m excited to connect with you because you and I are so similar in many ways and different in many ways because of our lives and our families. We’re both married to Indian men. We are both white American women. We both have kids and we both have podcasts that we talk about intercultural experience which is always an experience right. Yes. Yeah but pretty much that’s where the similarities end I think because just because we’re both married to Indian men doesn’t mean things are the same. But we have a lot of things to talk about for sure. So first of all just kind of you know give me a background of where you’re from where you’re living now.

00:01:16

Yeah. So I’m from Chicago in the US and my husband is originally from Bihar. It’s a state in eastern India.

00:01:27

OK. And it’s kind of known to be more downtrodden place as a poor reputation in India. And usually when people hear that you’re from Bihar people kind of snuff their nose at you like I can anything good come out of that place and I can tell you that it certainly can. And actually the longer that I’m here. I really see how great the people are and how much potential this place really has and how much growth is happening. So that’s kind of his background is a bit you know coming from the place that’s not known as a metropolitan area whatsoever. For many years it was kind of known as the most corrupt states in India and the poorest state in India. So that’s kind of where he is. Yeah that’s kind of where he comes from. And we met in well actually we technically met when I was working in India.

00:02:41

I’m a marketing professional by trade and I was in my early 20s and I had gone to India for this assignment and I was working there for a couple of years and I had learned Hindi in that city where I was living. It was a wonderful experience for a young 20 something girl and yeah. That’s exciting. Living outside of metropolitan India was an awesome experience. So basically I had this incredible cross-cultural experience living in India. And at the same time my husband had moved to the US in his own cross-cultural experience in two southern Indiana.

00:03:39

Oh. Right. So he had gone on the border of Kentucky. No. Hell yes even while that’s even more of a cultural culture shock. Yes. Yes.

00:03:53

So he had gone from you know living in India and he had actually gone to college in a larger city in Boone. And it was a very multicultural experience for him and not in that city a lot of people from many different countries and we had roommates from Ethiopia and Bahrain and the U.S. and from all over the place. So OK he had that kind of multicultural experience before he moved to the US and then he moved to southern Indiana which is any thinking puts people to struggle right.

00:04:31

That’s about as white bread as it is.

00:04:35

Right. So that’s the juncture in life where he and I connected. OK. And I was in India and he was in the US and a friend introduced us. We were both volunteering with the same organization except I was with the Indian branch and he was with us. And a friend introduced us. You don’t know. Appreciate it. You’ve never met him. No. So we connected and the rest is history. So when I come back to the U.S. It was my assignment had actually finished up in that we met face to face. So the short answer like how we met is actually not what you asked me.

00:05:27

No I was going to. I wanted to know. So that’s really good that you guys were both able to experience each other’s culture before you met. Because that’s really different from what it was like when my husband and I met. Sure. Because I. He was born in South Africa. He’s never been to India but he grew up in this little Indian community. And I met in Memphis Tennessee. And I was just a little Southern girl. And. I have I still to this day have never been to India or Africa and just it’s not my my world.

00:05:59

So he had to make a lot of changes. Sure. Living in the south. And it was it was hard for me though because I was living in the south. In my world. And yet when I was in his family and with his Indian community it was like being in another world in another country. So yeah. There was no context I guess in which to function. So I felt like an outsider. Absolutely. From the beginning so did you feel that way even coming from knowing more about his culture from the beginning. I I don’t think I ever really felt like an outsider I have felt like an outsider in India.

00:06:44

When I first moved to because you know I didn’t know the language at that point and I didn’t know I was very just trying to figure all those things out and trying to walk that tight balance of accommodating the culture but yet so retaining who I was at the same time and recognizing that I would never become Indian no matter how much I tried or how much. And that wasn’t even the goal anyway. Right. Never to become Indian. But it’s a funny thing actually because in India we especially for women for foreign women there’s kind of like this pressure to you know oh you should do this and you should do this they want it. People want to make you into this like nice little Indian woman but no matter what you do you’ll never be back. So I kind of accepted Yeah except that from an early phase of you know I’m never going to you know my my skin tone and my background and my my culture backgrounds never going to change. And I can accommodate as much as I can to the culture and learn the language and learn how to make the food and where the Saudi and all these things but really I’ll never be an insider. And so I kind of accepted that even before he and I ever met and I wasn’t. By the time I had met him I mean I had already you know was already speaking Hindi at that point pretty smoothly and I already had the wardrobe and knew all the you know not all of the nuances. That’s not fair to say. But you know knew how to manage you know who to do a phenomenal must day to and whose feet to touch and all of these things you know it’s like walk through that world already. So by the time he and I met I had realized that we we weren’t. You know I was really going to be more of an along sider. And like I like that insider outsider or a by Sider I sit next to cider. So I think that got resolved pretty early in our relationship. And I also never had that expectation with his family that I needed to immediately be accepted. And I know a lot of people don’t have that expectation.

00:09:10

But how old were you when you guys met.

00:09:14

I was only twenty five minutes OK.

00:09:18

So you were still a young man. Yes. Because I look at it like with me I was 16 when my husband and I met. And this is something that I. I go over in my mind even to this day I’m 47. It’s been a really long time but I didn’t know who I was when I fell in love with those gorgeous Indian boy that walked into the Baskin Robbins. You know I got thrown I sort of went into you know I fell in the rabbit hole I went into this crazy upside down world thing. First of all I had no idea who I was and then there I was everybody saying well OK. You know once we got married Oh you have to learn how to cook. You have to learn how to dress.

00:09:58

You have to learn the language the religion and then they would turn around and say well you’re trying to be like us and we don’t like that. So we don’t want your help. And so does a number on your your sense of identity.

00:10:12

Oh it sounds like you had it together a whole lot more than I did. I wouldn’t say I had it together at all.

00:10:18

I think I had but that’s hard I mean being so young and trying to you know figure out all of those cues and all of those when you are still figuring out who you are and who you’re going to be. But there’s something really amazing about that where you’re figuring that out together as that as I guess you have your friends first and eventually became a couple.

00:10:44

How do you figure out your identity as a couple and one thing that’s always been interesting for us is we we almost created a third culture early on. OK. We’re not gonna be totally Indian we’re not going to be totally Midwestern American we’re going to be kind of a blend and it’s gonna be something else. So if we put it in either of these boxes we’re gonna be disappointing somebody. Right. So I think that’s kind of where we sell a lot. You know we have to create something different and it might be completely uniquely for us and it might not be replicated all but I’m sure you guys have like how have you mesh walk through that of creating your own.

00:11:35

We have done it very dysfunctional. I think.

00:11:40

I think we fail. Oh yeah.

00:11:43

Because you know one of the things I don’t know about you but I generalize with a lot of women that I know young girls as you go into a marriage or a relationship and think Oh I love him he’s so wonderful but I’m going to change him. You know this guy this can’t keep going on and it may not be a conscious thing but I think that that’s a tendency for a lot of women and I’m guilty of that. And I think he kind of wanted to change certain things about me. So since we were so young we didn’t go into it with that sort of conscious like OK we’re going to create our own culture it was just how we’re going to be married we’re in love love can conquer all. And then we tackled things when they were thrown at us.

00:12:26

You know I guess maybe that’s just our personalities to just kind of you know go at running the gambit but as far as culture since we live here in the south we don’t have a lot of Indian culture in our lives because our community we live in a really rural mostly white counting and we don’t have a lot of involvement with the Indian community mainly because at the beginning I wasn’t accepted. And so you know we started having our kids and I was just like well I don’t want to go to this function. They’re not gonna I mean I’m sure and that’s not the case now at all. Lovely people in the community. But you know years go by and it just it is what it is. So but how did you guys consciously make that those choices with things in your life in your family to make them blend.

00:13:22

Well we’ve been married for almost 10 years OK. Our first six years of marriage were in the US and. Our last three ongoing now for years have now been in India and actually in Bihar where my husband grew up which I guess you know we we tried to surround ourselves with people who if they weren’t Indian we found people that were interested in India. And so because that was just such a a part of our lives and our story and just people who had kind of a multicultural background and that a lot of our friends were cross-cultural couples different flavors and different the combinations and just people who had lived abroad or were international students from China or Saudi Arabia or wherever. And so we kind of this for you. We just can form this community around us or just really it wasn’t intentional just kind of happens and yeah you gravitate toward people that you feel comfortable with and share.

00:14:34

Commonality with here. Did you have any couples or people that you knew in his family or your family that had married. Cross culturally especially Indian and an American because we didn’t we didn’t have any role models. No one to talk to about it. Right.

00:14:54

Well you know I in my family I didn’t really have any one the head married cross culturally. However my family was very open to that. I think since I was a young person and seen since I was probably 9 or 10 years old they say here that I would end up overseas somewhere. I just kind of my dad’s an international business person and I was always asking questions and always.

00:15:23

I grew up hearing him on the phone at 3:00 in the morning you know talking to Mr. Kim in Korea and you know going every couple of months to Slovenia or wherever you is just constantly on the go and I grew up kind of having understanding that people from different cultures had a lot to offer and that there was a big world out there.

00:15:50

So I felt that I didn’t necessarily have a lot of cross-cultural interactions myself as a child. I grew up actually in a pretty white suburban community of Chicago. But my family was very open and I guess with all my interactions in India and I had gone and lived there for several years I kind of groomed them for that possibility.

00:16:16

I guess that sounds negative but I kind of prepared them for that possibility that you know my life would be heading in different directions. So they were prepared they had seen things so far. Yeah that’s good.

00:16:32

And in any Sheikh’s family this is actually really a great story. So his you know most of the people in his family have had arranged marriages and he’s you know from what we call a trans national family right. So he’s got people who are in Canada Australia New Zealand India the US just kind of all over the place like some of his core family members. So his folks basically have not lived anywhere besides there this state of Bihar. So they are very I.

00:17:14

I am so blessed of my home. They’re very they’re very traditional but they’re very understanding. And that’s taken them you know they’ve they’ve been through on their own journey but we know the family is not in Indian families especially it’s not just your nuclear family it’s not just your parents.

00:17:35

So yeah. So that was a huge adjustment for me. So you’ll definitely have to tell me how you adjusted to it.

00:17:44

We we had you know so in his larger family we have people who are kind of settled all over his sister’s in Canada. So our uncle or Abu Sheikh’s uncle had gone to settled in New York. I don’t know. I guess it must be almost 50 years now. Wow. Back in the I think he was in his 60s or maybe late sixties. I’m not sure. And he kind of settled his family over there. And because of that a lot of Abu Sheik’s parents and other relatives had been exposed to some of Western culture or just the understanding of how life was there. So that was a positive thing. And in some ways I think it was negative because some of those stereotypes came through. However one of Abu Sheikh’s cousins. One of his older cousins the patriarch of the family got married to a wonderful white American man and everyone was so happy for her why and this is the patriarch of the family who’s basically you know granting this and they had this lovely amazing Hindu wedding in New York and then they also had everything in the ancestral village way out in the boonies of Bihar.

00:19:33

Now it’s still there if you’re listening cousins I really need to talk to you about your experience because this is just I can’t believe you would go here we go from New York to the village. But yeah that’s that’s like completely different sides of the universe. It is.

00:19:53

So anyhow so that was a huge door open and actually at their wedding Abu Sheikh looked over at his cousin and his cousins like I guess we can marry whoever we want now.

00:20:06

That’s awesome.

00:20:07

Which isn’t entirely true but that was a huge open door for us. And actually he and I had just started talking at that point. So we waited we waited a while to kind of we waited for the right time to talk to his family. And I think one of the one of the terrible things is that I think for Western women and Indian guys this tends to be this tension of you know I don’t want to tell my parents about you. Yes. Yes. Mm hmm. And that can be really hurtful I think for a lot of Western women or women who come from non shamefaced cultures prior where it’s like why don’t you want to tell them about me. Right.

00:21:02

Is there is there something wrong with me. Are you right.

00:21:04

Yeah. And it’s like no actually if we want this to go right I have to wait for the right timing which just doesn’t make sense to us. Right. So in this case you know we had to wait for the right timing.

00:21:18

So it was after you know this this cousin’s wedding and it went beautifully and everyone just obviously loves them and they’re just fantastic people.

00:21:30

So everyone loves them and we’re so happy and you know they they got to see this American dude in the village just doing all this all these really archaic old type traditions and they were just everyone was so happy. So I saw it. He was amazing.

00:21:50

And then after that experience we thought you know after that all goes that might be the right time to say hey by the way mummy papa there’s somebody that I want to tell you about.

00:22:04

Yes. Let me tell you. Yeah.

00:22:08

So we wanted that to be fresh in their mind. And I think that was a huge help. And then for women the standard is definitely different. Right. You have to. You know there’s a lot of expectations to kind of be subservient and you have to kind of be the household servant sometimes.

00:22:31

And and so all of those things you know you kind of have to go through this testing process to see if you’re able to do that and if you if you’re going to be good not just for your husband but for the whole family. So basically you know from the from the beginning it was you know bubbling I have somebody and I’m I’m serious about her because there’s no like idea of at least in my in-laws family there’s still not this idea of like dating culture it’s like you’ve got someone and you get married.

00:23:01

Absolutely yeah. We had to wait till we were quite serious about each other to reveal that I existed because otherwise it would be like well what are you gonna wait around for when you get married or not talk about it right. It was kind of like you know this this nexus of how serious are we about our relationship but are we willing to let it go if everyone is against it or I or. Are we willing to count the losses if it’s really going to cause a lot of heartache and pain for us for the rest of our lives. And so that was kind of the point that we were at of either we’re like going to get go forward with this or it’s all going to end. Yeah.

00:23:47

I guess we did go through that. Only it wasn’t as calculated as yours it was like I think I was a senior in high school and we’re sitting in the car out in front of my house and it was sort of that discussion like OK. You know either I’m telling him either you’re going to tell your parents about me or we’re done. And he’s like well OK we’re done. Because he just. Yeah of course we got back together like a week later but it’s just so much pressure for the person that Indian person in the family from their family about the expectations and not wanting to disappoint. And I don’t know about you I guess because you lived in Indian culture you knew more about it. I kept asking him and asking myself well why can’t you just do what you want to do. You’re on a diet. I can understand that. My head was just not going to grasp that. So that was always. But it sounds like you’re like you have a better foot on the Indian ground than I did.

00:24:53

So yeah which sometimes takes away all my excuses though. And if I mess up it’s like you should know better. But again I’m not an insider I never be an insider and so sometimes people still give me those excuse. Let me take my excuse.

00:25:08

I mess up so it doesn’t sound like you had to correct me if I’m wrong like forced yourself into a category to try to change to please people because yes something you you chose. You knew what you were getting into a great deal as a blogger and podcast and a writer. I get people sending me messages emails asking me advice Oh I’m married. I’m married to an Indian guy or I’m dating an Indian guy. And his parents want me to do this or how much am I supposed to change for them to accept me. Do you get messages like that from people. Yeah yeah yeah. And what do you say. Because it’s so hard because you know you’re living your life in your contacts. I’m living my life and my context everybody’s so different. So what kind of advice do you give to people.

00:26:00

Yeah it’s hard because the standards for women sake on one hand I want to be like a stark feminist like you know no change for anybody except you the way you are. You know the other hand I want to be honoring of Indian culture and of the background and history of what that means.

00:26:20

And and so I usually encourage people that you know to try to to try to accommodate in some ways. And again like it’s it it is going to feel like a slippery slope. Well if I do this and they’re going on me do this and they don’t want me to do this and they’re going to do this you know they might but but you might not see it always put your foot down at some point and say I want you to wear bangles and put on and the. And if they want you to learn how to cook something or if they want you to come to some event and you know where the Saudi and sit there and look pretty like you know why not. But you know why not. Or you know and learn a few phrases and whatever your spouse’s native language or whatever their family’s native language like why not you know some of these little things go a long way. But if you I I guess what I would say is if you if you are willing to adjust and accommodate in some of the small things you gain ground and you’ll gain you’ll gain the permission to kind of put your foot down when the big things come along. Yeah.

00:27:37

Absolutely right. It’s creating goodwill. Exactly. And one thing I tell people you know they’ll ask me Well do you wear the Indian clothes and you know do you do what your mother in law says and that sort of thing or what do you do about religion with raising your kids. I don’t like this tradition about Hindu culture. So should I do it or not. And I just I tell people don’t change your self for your husband or your in-laws. Change things about you if you’re comfortable with it and if there’s if you’re marrying somebody that’s Indian or a different culture there is a reason that you were attracted to that person in the first place. And then culture is a big part of them. So give it a fair shake. Yeah. So you’re you’re so immersed in the culture and I am so not. But I have so many aspects of it that have my life. Yes. What is the biggest impact that Indian culture has had on your life in a good way or one thing.

00:28:46

I don’t know if there is one thing. I mean I’ve been so I recently told a sheik that something is changing in me and I don’t think it’s ever going to go back to the way I think I cannot go back to the way that I was. Now why this is and this is after you know I’ve been involved in Indian culture now for like 13 years since I lived in India. And it was this year particularly I felt something shifting in me. And. And I’m like I’m in it. And it was almost it was it was a little scary because I felt a part of myself being lost my Americanness being lost and yes. And I and I saw it kind of slipping away from me. And I’m always adopting a new way of thinking or I felt very permanent to me. And I don’t know if that’s just because we don’t visit the US often or I’m not sure why. But I don’t exactly know what it was that was changing. So I’m probably older reflect in 10 years without it right. But I do think that you know once you’re once you’re immersed in the culture there’s so many things that do change about you things that you consciously changed and things that you unconsciously change and right you the conscious things you can change are learning the language and learning to eat you know eating Indian food then making decisions you know thinking about I’m OK. Well I’m going to show up. The invitation says 5 p.m. but I’m going to show up at 7 consciously frantically making those decisions. And then there’s things that change unconsciously like Oh man. You know the woman that woman said that she’s not going to be able to meet me and she would come to my house. She directly said you know Oh I am sorry I can’t make it. And I feel bad about that because you’re supposed to say Oh yeah.

00:30:59

I’ll come to your house I come to your house even if you’re not going to come to their house. Right. And I actually I genuinely feel sad about it. Like what happened to me. What did you do.

00:31:08

I used to be so direct you know. So those are the things that unconsciously change your feelings your your underlying.

00:31:18

Yeah. Just like your underlying ways of emoting in ways of navigating.

00:31:26

And I think I would say if I had to give an answer I think I would say that just like my entire world view about people and why people are motivated about things. Mm hmm. It’s it’s it’s for me it’s actually kind of the core of my worldview is that it’s kind of morphed and that’s why it can be a very deconstructed type of thing and airy.

00:31:54

But also as you kind of reconstruct your world view together into the area you know positive and enlightening and seeing things through a completely different lens that’s exciting actually. And I think also for a person especially like a mom you know you’re going to change in your life anyway because you know you were a career woman and then you were a wife and then you’re a mom and then you have these struggles so you know regardless of where you are it’s going to change. You just have a little bit more of a drastic change because of your locale and the culture that you’re in. And I can tell you I’m older than you and you’re going to be a completely different person in ten years and then 20 years. And that’s a great thing. We we grow so much. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. So your podcast it’s called invisible India. Yeah. What’s your goal for that. How did you get started with that. Yeah. Well this is really just a hobby.

00:32:59

We have a lot of other work that we’re doing here we’re involved in non-profit work and we have a small business or starting and those are the things that kind of you know sustain us and pay the bills.

00:33:12

But one of the things that we found is a lot of people were really interested in what we’re doing and interested about our lives and Indian culture and our perspective and how we’ve navigated east and west and and I think that some of the ways that we are discovering different aspects of India through a perspective of a foreigner who is kind of adapted to Indian culture and then a returning NRI which an “NRI” is a “non resident Indian”. So he was abroad for several years and then came back and people I think are really interested in that perspective. How do you think India’s changed. How have you changed. How have you been able to raise your kids there and so that some of the things we like to talk about. Our goal I think is just to educate and inform and have a dialogue. And as we discovered this this this subcontinent and its massive quickly changing landscape yet fiercely traditional landscape at the same time. So how do we.

00:34:24

Do life here and how do we work with those those changes and things that are happening here. So one of the topics we talk about are.

00:34:35

Raising kids and we talk a lot about women and men’s roles and gender roles. We talk about different things that are happening in India. Different stereotypes misconceptions and how we found this to be true or untrue.

00:34:50

It’s great to be able to create and create a dialogue is just so important because I think people here don’t know anything about Indian culture. When I tell somebody that my husband is Indian they look at me sometimes and go oh yeah I like Indian food. That’s their only context with it. I’ve seen the Jungle Book it’s like oh goodness. Yeah. So I think they’re creating a dialogue about all of that is really great. And I mean that’s one of the reasons I do this podcast is just to get people’s stories out there because if you don’t know someone you’re going to look at them and say oh they’re different from me. I’m not going to like you. That’s what people tend to do. But just getting stories and talking about people and to people is so important in this world today. What do you have on the horizon for the podcast. You have any good app come upcoming episodes.

00:35:48

Yeah I’ve been working on bringing some some expert and guests on OK so I’ve done a few interviews with different people who work with different non-profit organizations and things like that who are really involved in the frontlines of social change. So I had one interview with a lady that I know here who is involved in gender violence projects and so we interviewed her and that was like I thought one of the best episodes I have a few people on the horizon that are international researchers or HD doing their PHC. I have a few just really interesting guests. One guy who is a cultural intelligence expert and yeah hoping to get his schedule he said yes. Now we see to get the dates figured out. So I think by the end of the year I think we’ll have some of these released. So I’m really excited about just getting more experts on Indian culture and people who come from this perspective from a cross-cultural perspective. And I think we need to get more. I would like to kind of take it in a more direction where we’re talking about social issues and some of the things that cause conflict or debate.

00:37:19

Yeah. Excellent. I’m looking forward to listening to more of those because listening to your podcast and talking to you really gives me a new perspective on the things that I go through in my life. I do have a little bit more of a reason for why you know this has happened or this person has said this. It sure just gives you a wider context. So that’s great. Well I look forward to hearing more on your podcast. And I look forward to talking to you more about some different things I’d love to hear know at a later time maybe what it’s like to raise kids in India. The difference between that and the US and you’ve got little kids 5 and 2.

00:38:03

Yeah I could even give you a little bit of advice if you Yes please. Oh. Well I knew some of your episodes I enjoyed listening to your son leaving for college and your daughter now.

00:38:18

That’s been really encouraging to me and to be able and one thing actually on one of your recent episodes with Sally I think you was talking about him and his wife and this is that they’re in right now of. Yeah yeah.

00:38:35

You have to do some things to kind of keep that romance alive and realizing that this is a phase the house always smells like poo. And this is I think in that just touched my heart. And I had been holding on to that for a couple weeks of yes that is the Phase I made. Yeah. The reality so and you do you need to hear from old people that yes it will pass.

00:39:00

So I definitely hear that.

00:39:05

All right well thank you so much for being here to talk with me. I really appreciate everything thank you so much.

00:39:11

I was really looking forward to this and just getting to speak with you and and I really enjoy your podcast I really think that it’s an important voice that you have and I think that there’s just a lot of discovery that needs to be done from so many different perspectives and I just appreciate what you’re doing.

00:39:32

Well thank you and likewise so I hope to have you on here again. I definitely would love to talk to you again. Thank you. I like to thank you. If you like this podcast so far. Please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it go on the awesome and leave a rating in a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S. Par Bhoo that’s p a r b h o o. Thanks for listening to Southern life Indian Wife.

The post Not Inside but Beside: a Conversation on Marrying into Indian Culture [podcast] appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

Imagine moving from the US to India in your late 20s for work, only to fall in love with the people and their culture; now imagine meeting and marrying an Indian man who spent his late 20s in the United States. That experience would likely give you and your husband a fairly unique worldview to say the least.

This week I’m joined by Jessica Kumar who, along with husband Abhishek, co-hosts The Invisible India Podcast which highlights lesser known facts of Indian culture from the perspective of a returning NRI–non-resident Indian–and an American living in India. Abhishek and Jessica are a cross-cultural couple exploring the mysteries of Indian culture and current social issues through conducting interviews with various experts, sharing personal experiences. 

We discuss Jessica’s move from Chicago to India (1:16), her exposure to Indian culture (6:38), meeting her future husband (9:11), how she and Abhishek have blended their cultures (13:20), how they’ve adapted despite most in husband’s family coming from arranged marriages (16:41), their strategy for revealing mixed-relationship to traditional Indian family (22:47), Jessica provides some choice advice for individuals going through a similar journey (25:25), she reveals the biggest-positive impact Indian culture has had on her life (28:24), the conscious vs unconscious changes she’s noticed after years of exposure to Indian culture (30:06), finally Jessica lays out her long-term goals for The Invisible India Podcast (32:51).

You can find Jessica and The Invisible India Podcast everywhere you download podcasts (iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, etc) and on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook.  

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts  and TuneIn. Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagramand Twitter! And…email me at sherylparbhoo@gmail.com to order a signed copy of my book The Unexpected Daughter.

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid and I am fiercely proud of both. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Parbhoo and this is Southern Life Indian Wife.

00:00:20

Jessica. I just wanted to welcome you to the show thanks so much for being here. Thank you so much.

00:00:26

I’m really glad to hear you so I’m excited to connect with you because you and I are so similar in many ways and different in many ways because of our lives and our families. We’re both married to Indian men. We are both white American women. We both have kids and we both have podcasts that we talk about intercultural experience which is always an experience right. Yes. Yeah but pretty much that’s where the similarities end I think because just because we’re both married to Indian men doesn’t mean things are the same. But we have a lot of things to talk about for sure. So first of all just kind of you know give me a background of where you’re from where you’re living now.

00:01:16

Yeah. So I’m from Chicago in the US and my husband is originally from Bihar. It’s a state in eastern India.

00:01:27

OK. And it’s kind of known to be more downtrodden place as a poor reputation in India. And usually when people hear that you’re from Bihar people kind of snuff their nose at you like I can anything good come out of that place and I can tell you that it certainly can. And actually the longer that I’m here. I really see how great the people are and how much potential this place really has and how much growth is happening. So that’s kind of his background is a bit you know coming from the place that’s not known as a metropolitan area whatsoever. For many years it was kind of known as the most corrupt states in India and the poorest state in India. So that’s kind of where he is. Yeah that’s kind of where he comes from. And we met in well actually we technically met when I was working in India.

00:02:41

I’m a marketing professional by trade and I was in my early 20s and I had gone to India for this assignment and I was working there for a couple of years and I had learned Hindi in that city where I was living. It was a wonderful experience for a young 20 something girl and yeah. That’s exciting. Living outside of metropolitan India was an awesome experience. So basically I had this incredible cross-cultural experience living in India. And at the same time my husband had moved to the US in his own cross-cultural experience in two southern Indiana.

00:03:39

Oh. Right. So he had gone on the border of Kentucky. No. Hell yes even while that’s even more of a cultural culture shock. Yes. Yes.

00:03:53

So he had gone from you know living in India and he had actually gone to college in a larger city in Boone. And it was a very multicultural experience for him and not in that city a lot of people from many different countries and we had roommates from Ethiopia and Bahrain and the U.S. and from all over the place. So OK he had that kind of multicultural experience before he moved to the US and then he moved to southern Indiana which is any thinking puts people to struggle right.

00:04:31

That’s about as white bread as it is.

00:04:35

Right. So that’s the juncture in life where he and I connected. OK. And I was in India and he was in the US and a friend introduced us. We were both volunteering with the same organization except I was with the Indian branch and he was with us. And a friend introduced us. You don’t know. Appreciate it. You’ve never met him. No. So we connected and the rest is history. So when I come back to the U.S. It was my assignment had actually finished up in that we met face to face. So the short answer like how we met is actually not what you asked me.

00:05:27

No I was going to. I wanted to know. So that’s really good that you guys were both able to experience each other’s culture before you met. Because that’s really different from what it was like when my husband and I met. Sure. Because I. He was born in South Africa. He’s never been to India but he grew up in this little Indian community. And I met in Memphis Tennessee. And I was just a little Southern girl. And. I have I still to this day have never been to India or Africa and just it’s not my my world.

00:05:59

So he had to make a lot of changes. Sure. Living in the south. And it was it was hard for me though because I was living in the south. In my world. And yet when I was in his family and with his Indian community it was like being in another world in another country. So yeah. There was no context I guess in which to function. So I felt like an outsider. Absolutely. From the beginning so did you feel that way even coming from knowing more about his culture from the beginning. I I don’t think I ever really felt like an outsider I have felt like an outsider in India.

00:06:44

When I first moved to because you know I didn’t know the language at that point and I didn’t know I was very just trying to figure all those things out and trying to walk that tight balance of accommodating the culture but yet so retaining who I was at the same time and recognizing that I would never become Indian no matter how much I tried or how much. And that wasn’t even the goal anyway. Right. Never to become Indian. But it’s a funny thing actually because in India we especially for women for foreign women there’s kind of like this pressure to you know oh you should do this and you should do this they want it. People want to make you into this like nice little Indian woman but no matter what you do you’ll never be back. So I kind of accepted Yeah except that from an early phase of you know I’m never going to you know my my skin tone and my background and my my culture backgrounds never going to change. And I can accommodate as much as I can to the culture and learn the language and learn how to make the food and where the Saudi and all these things but really I’ll never be an insider. And so I kind of accepted that even before he and I ever met and I wasn’t. By the time I had met him I mean I had already you know was already speaking Hindi at that point pretty smoothly and I already had the wardrobe and knew all the you know not all of the nuances. That’s not fair to say. But you know knew how to manage you know who to do a phenomenal must day to and whose feet to touch and all of these things you know it’s like walk through that world already. So by the time he and I met I had realized that we we weren’t. You know I was really going to be more of an along sider. And like I like that insider outsider or a by Sider I sit next to cider. So I think that got resolved pretty early in our relationship. And I also never had that expectation with his family that I needed to immediately be accepted. And I know a lot of people don’t have that expectation.

00:09:10

But how old were you when you guys met.

00:09:14

I was only twenty five minutes OK.

00:09:18

So you were still a young man. Yes. Because I look at it like with me I was 16 when my husband and I met. And this is something that I. I go over in my mind even to this day I’m 47. It’s been a really long time but I didn’t know who I was when I fell in love with those gorgeous Indian boy that walked into the Baskin Robbins. You know I got thrown I sort of went into you know I fell in the rabbit hole I went into this crazy upside down world thing. First of all I had no idea who I was and then there I was everybody saying well OK. You know once we got married Oh you have to learn how to cook. You have to learn how to dress.

00:09:58

You have to learn the language the religion and then they would turn around and say well you’re trying to be like us and we don’t like that. So we don’t want your help. And so does a number on your your sense of identity.

00:10:12

Oh it sounds like you had it together a whole lot more than I did. I wouldn’t say I had it together at all.

00:10:18

I think I had but that’s hard I mean being so young and trying to you know figure out all of those cues and all of those when you are still figuring out who you are and who you’re going to be. But there’s something really amazing about that where you’re figuring that out together as that as I guess you have your friends first and eventually became a couple.

00:10:44

How do you figure out your identity as a couple and one thing that’s always been interesting for us is we we almost created a third culture early on. OK. We’re not gonna be totally Indian we’re not going to be totally Midwestern American we’re going to be kind of a blend and it’s gonna be something else. So if we put it in either of these boxes we’re gonna be disappointing somebody. Right. So I think that’s kind of where we sell a lot. You know we have to create something different and it might be completely uniquely for us and it might not be replicated all but I’m sure you guys have like how have you mesh walk through that of creating your own.

00:11:35

We have done it very dysfunctional. I think.

00:11:40

I think we fail. Oh yeah.

00:11:43

Because you know one of the things I don’t know about you but I generalize with a lot of women that I know young girls as you go into a marriage or a relationship and think Oh I love him he’s so wonderful but I’m going to change him. You know this guy this can’t keep going on and it may not be a conscious thing but I think that that’s a tendency for a lot of women and I’m guilty of that. And I think he kind of wanted to change certain things about me. So since we were so young we didn’t go into it with that sort of conscious like OK we’re going to create our own culture it was just how we’re going to be married we’re in love love can conquer all. And then we tackled things when they were thrown at us.

00:12:26

You know I guess maybe that’s just our personalities to just kind of you know go at running the gambit but as far as culture since we live here in the south we don’t have a lot of Indian culture in our lives because our community we live in a really rural mostly white counting and we don’t have a lot of involvement with the Indian community mainly because at the beginning I wasn’t accepted. And so you know we started having our kids and I was just like well I don’t want to go to this function. They’re not gonna I mean I’m sure and that’s not the case now at all. Lovely people in the community. But you know years go by and it just it is what it is. So but how did you guys consciously make that those choices with things in your life in your family to make them blend.

00:13:22

Well we’ve been married for almost 10 years OK. Our first six years of marriage were in the US and. Our last three ongoing now for years have now been in India and actually in Bihar where my husband grew up which I guess you know we we tried to surround ourselves with people who if they weren’t Indian we found people that were interested in India. And so because that was just such a a part of our lives and our story and just people who had kind of a multicultural background and that a lot of our friends were cross-cultural couples different flavors and different the combinations and just people who had lived abroad or were international students from China or Saudi Arabia or wherever. And so we kind of this for you. We just can form this community around us or just really it wasn’t intentional just kind of happens and yeah you gravitate toward people that you feel comfortable with and share.

00:14:34

Commonality with here. Did you have any couples or people that you knew in his family or your family that had married. Cross culturally especially Indian and an American because we didn’t we didn’t have any role models. No one to talk to about it. Right.

00:14:54

Well you know I in my family I didn’t really have any one the head married cross culturally. However my family was very open to that. I think since I was a young person and seen since I was probably 9 or 10 years old they say here that I would end up overseas somewhere. I just kind of my dad’s an international business person and I was always asking questions and always.

00:15:23

I grew up hearing him on the phone at 3:00 in the morning you know talking to Mr. Kim in Korea and you know going every couple of months to Slovenia or wherever you is just constantly on the go and I grew up kind of having understanding that people from different cultures had a lot to offer and that there was a big world out there.

00:15:50

So I felt that I didn’t necessarily have a lot of cross-cultural interactions myself as a child. I grew up actually in a pretty white suburban community of Chicago. But my family was very open and I guess with all my interactions in India and I had gone and lived there for several years I kind of groomed them for that possibility.

00:16:16

I guess that sounds negative but I kind of prepared them for that possibility that you know my life would be heading in different directions. So they were prepared they had seen things so far. Yeah that’s good.

00:16:32

And in any Sheikh’s family this is actually really a great story. So his you know most of the people in his family have had arranged marriages and he’s you know from what we call a trans national family right. So he’s got people who are in Canada Australia New Zealand India the US just kind of all over the place like some of his core family members. So his folks basically have not lived anywhere besides there this state of Bihar. So they are very I.

00:17:14

I am so blessed of my home. They’re very they’re very traditional but they’re very understanding. And that’s taken them you know they’ve they’ve been through on their own journey but we know the family is not in Indian families especially it’s not just your nuclear family it’s not just your parents.

00:17:35

So yeah. So that was a huge adjustment for me. So you’ll definitely have to tell me how you adjusted to it.

00:17:44

We we had you know so in his larger family we have people who are kind of settled all over his sister’s in Canada. So our uncle or Abu Sheikh’s uncle had gone to settled in New York. I don’t know. I guess it must be almost 50 years now. Wow. Back in the I think he was in his 60s or maybe late sixties. I’m not sure. And he kind of settled his family over there. And because of that a lot of Abu Sheik’s parents and other relatives had been exposed to some of Western culture or just the understanding of how life was there. So that was a positive thing. And in some ways I think it was negative because some of those stereotypes came through. However one of Abu Sheikh’s cousins. One of his older cousins the patriarch of the family got married to a wonderful white American man and everyone was so happy for her why and this is the patriarch of the family who’s basically you know granting this and they had this lovely amazing Hindu wedding in New York and then they also had everything in the ancestral village way out in the boonies of Bihar.

00:19:33

Now it’s still there if you’re listening cousins I really need to talk to you about your experience because this is just I can’t believe you would go here we go from New York to the village. But yeah that’s that’s like completely different sides of the universe. It is.

00:19:53

So anyhow so that was a huge door open and actually at their wedding Abu Sheikh looked over at his cousin and his cousins like I guess we can marry whoever we want now.

00:20:06

That’s awesome.

00:20:07

Which isn’t entirely true but that was a huge open door for us. And actually he and I had just started talking at that point. So we waited we waited a while to kind of we waited for the right time to talk to his family. And I think one of the one of the terrible things is that I think for Western women and Indian guys this tends to be this tension of you know I don’t want to tell my parents about you. Yes. Yes. Mm hmm. And that can be really hurtful I think for a lot of Western women or women who come from non shamefaced cultures prior where it’s like why don’t you want to tell them about me. Right.

00:21:02

Is there is there something wrong with me. Are you right.

00:21:04

Yeah. And it’s like no actually if we want this to go right I have to wait for the right timing which just doesn’t make sense to us. Right. So in this case you know we had to wait for the right timing.

00:21:18

So it was after you know this this cousin’s wedding and it went beautifully and everyone just obviously loves them and they’re just fantastic people.

00:21:30

So everyone loves them and we’re so happy and you know they they got to see this American dude in the village just doing all this all these really archaic old type traditions and they were just everyone was so happy. So I saw it. He was amazing.

00:21:50

And then after that experience we thought you know after that all goes that might be the right time to say hey by the way mummy papa there’s somebody that I want to tell you about.

00:22:04

Yes. Let me tell you. Yeah.

00:22:08

So we wanted that to be fresh in their mind. And I think that was a huge help. And then for women the standard is definitely different. Right. You have to. You know there’s a lot of expectations to kind of be subservient and you have to kind of be the household servant sometimes.

00:22:31

And and so all of those things you know you kind of have to go through this testing process to see if you’re able to do that and if you if you’re going to be good not just for your husband but for the whole family. So basically you know from the from the beginning it was you know bubbling I have somebody and I’m I’m serious about her because there’s no like idea of at least in my in-laws family there’s still not this idea of like dating culture it’s like you’ve got someone and you get married.

00:23:01

Absolutely yeah. We had to wait till we were quite serious about each other to reveal that I existed because otherwise it would be like well what are you gonna wait around for when you get married or not talk about it right. It was kind of like you know this this nexus of how serious are we about our relationship but are we willing to let it go if everyone is against it or I or. Are we willing to count the losses if it’s really going to cause a lot of heartache and pain for us for the rest of our lives. And so that was kind of the point that we were at of either we’re like going to get go forward with this or it’s all going to end. Yeah.

00:23:47

I guess we did go through that. Only it wasn’t as calculated as yours it was like I think I was a senior in high school and we’re sitting in the car out in front of my house and it was sort of that discussion like OK. You know either I’m telling him either you’re going to tell your parents about me or we’re done. And he’s like well OK we’re done. Because he just. Yeah of course we got back together like a week later but it’s just so much pressure for the person that Indian person in the family from their family about the expectations and not wanting to disappoint. And I don’t know about you I guess because you lived in Indian culture you knew more about it. I kept asking him and asking myself well why can’t you just do what you want to do. You’re on a diet. I can understand that. My head was just not going to grasp that. So that was always. But it sounds like you’re like you have a better foot on the Indian ground than I did.

00:24:53

So yeah which sometimes takes away all my excuses though. And if I mess up it’s like you should know better. But again I’m not an insider I never be an insider and so sometimes people still give me those excuse. Let me take my excuse.

00:25:08

I mess up so it doesn’t sound like you had to correct me if I’m wrong like forced yourself into a category to try to change to please people because yes something you you chose. You knew what you were getting into a great deal as a blogger and podcast and a writer. I get people sending me messages emails asking me advice Oh I’m married. I’m married to an Indian guy or I’m dating an Indian guy. And his parents want me to do this or how much am I supposed to change for them to accept me. Do you get messages like that from people. Yeah yeah yeah. And what do you say. Because it’s so hard because you know you’re living your life in your contacts. I’m living my life and my context everybody’s so different. So what kind of advice do you give to people.

00:26:00

Yeah it’s hard because the standards for women sake on one hand I want to be like a stark feminist like you know no change for anybody except you the way you are. You know the other hand I want to be honoring of Indian culture and of the background and history of what that means.

00:26:20

And and so I usually encourage people that you know to try to to try to accommodate in some ways. And again like it’s it it is going to feel like a slippery slope. Well if I do this and they’re going on me do this and they don’t want me to do this and they’re going to do this you know they might but but you might not see it always put your foot down at some point and say I want you to wear bangles and put on and the. And if they want you to learn how to cook something or if they want you to come to some event and you know where the Saudi and sit there and look pretty like you know why not. But you know why not. Or you know and learn a few phrases and whatever your spouse’s native language or whatever their family’s native language like why not you know some of these little things go a long way. But if you I I guess what I would say is if you if you are willing to adjust and accommodate in some of the small things you gain ground and you’ll gain you’ll gain the permission to kind of put your foot down when the big things come along. Yeah.

00:27:37

Absolutely right. It’s creating goodwill. Exactly. And one thing I tell people you know they’ll ask me Well do you wear the Indian clothes and you know do you do what your mother in law says and that sort of thing or what do you do about religion with raising your kids. I don’t like this tradition about Hindu culture. So should I do it or not. And I just I tell people don’t change your self for your husband or your in-laws. Change things about you if you’re comfortable with it and if there’s if you’re marrying somebody that’s Indian or a different culture there is a reason that you were attracted to that person in the first place. And then culture is a big part of them. So give it a fair shake. Yeah. So you’re you’re so immersed in the culture and I am so not. But I have so many aspects of it that have my life. Yes. What is the biggest impact that Indian culture has had on your life in a good way or one thing.

00:28:46

I don’t know if there is one thing. I mean I’ve been so I recently told a sheik that something is changing in me and I don’t think it’s ever going to go back to the way I think I cannot go back to the way that I was. Now why this is and this is after you know I’ve been involved in Indian culture now for like 13 years since I lived in India. And it was this year particularly I felt something shifting in me. And. And I’m like I’m in it. And it was almost it was it was a little scary because I felt a part of myself being lost my Americanness being lost and yes. And I and I saw it kind of slipping away from me. And I’m always adopting a new way of thinking or I felt very permanent to me. And I don’t know if that’s just because we don’t visit the US often or I’m not sure why. But I don’t exactly know what it was that was changing. So I’m probably older reflect in 10 years without it right. But I do think that you know once you’re once you’re immersed in the culture there’s so many things that do change about you things that you consciously changed and things that you unconsciously change and right you the conscious things you can change are learning the language and learning to eat you know eating Indian food then making decisions you know thinking about I’m OK. Well I’m going to show up. The invitation says 5 p.m. but I’m going to show up at 7 consciously frantically making those decisions. And then there’s things that change unconsciously like Oh man. You know the woman that woman said that she’s not going to be able to meet me and she would come to my house. She directly said you know Oh I am sorry I can’t make it. And I feel bad about that because you’re supposed to say Oh yeah.

00:30:59

I’ll come to your house I come to your house even if you’re not going to come to their house. Right. And I actually I genuinely feel sad about it. Like what happened to me. What did you do.

00:31:08

I used to be so direct you know. So those are the things that unconsciously change your feelings your your underlying.

00:31:18

Yeah. Just like your underlying ways of emoting in ways of navigating.

00:31:26

And I think I would say if I had to give an answer I think I would say that just like my entire world view about people and why people are motivated about things. Mm hmm. It’s it’s it’s for me it’s actually kind of the core of my worldview is that it’s kind of morphed and that’s why it can be a very deconstructed type of thing and airy.

00:31:54

But also as you kind of reconstruct your world view together into the area you know positive and enlightening and seeing things through a completely different lens that’s exciting actually. And I think also for a person especially like a mom you know you’re going to change in your life anyway because you know you were a career woman and then you were a wife and then you’re a mom and then you have these struggles so you know regardless of where you are it’s going to change. You just have a little bit more of a drastic change because of your locale and the culture that you’re in. And I can tell you I’m older than you and you’re going to be a completely different person in ten years and then 20 years. And that’s a great thing. We we grow so much. Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. So your podcast it’s called invisible India. Yeah. What’s your goal for that. How did you get started with that. Yeah. Well this is really just a hobby.

00:32:59

We have a lot of other work that we’re doing here we’re involved in non-profit work and we have a small business or starting and those are the things that kind of you know sustain us and pay the bills.

00:33:12

But one of the things that we found is a lot of people were really interested in what we’re doing and interested about our lives and Indian culture and our perspective and how we’ve navigated east and west and and I think that some of the ways that we are discovering different aspects of India through a perspective of a foreigner who is kind of adapted to Indian culture and then a returning NRI which an “NRI” is a “non resident Indian”. So he was abroad for several years and then came back and people I think are really interested in that perspective. How do you think India’s changed. How have you changed. How have you been able to raise your kids there and so that some of the things we like to talk about. Our goal I think is just to educate and inform and have a dialogue. And as we discovered this this this subcontinent and its massive quickly changing landscape yet fiercely traditional landscape at the same time. So how do we.

00:34:24

Do life here and how do we work with those those changes and things that are happening here. So one of the topics we talk about are.

00:34:35

Raising kids and we talk a lot about women and men’s roles and gender roles. We talk about different things that are happening in India. Different stereotypes misconceptions and how we found this to be true or untrue.

00:34:50

It’s great to be able to create and create a dialogue is just so important because I think people here don’t know anything about Indian culture. When I tell somebody that my husband is Indian they look at me sometimes and go oh yeah I like Indian food. That’s their only context with it. I’ve seen the Jungle Book it’s like oh goodness. Yeah. So I think they’re creating a dialogue about all of that is really great. And I mean that’s one of the reasons I do this podcast is just to get people’s stories out there because if you don’t know someone you’re going to look at them and say oh they’re different from me. I’m not going to like you. That’s what people tend to do. But just getting stories and talking about people and to people is so important in this world today. What do you have on the horizon for the podcast. You have any good app come upcoming episodes.

00:35:48

Yeah I’ve been working on bringing some some expert and guests on OK so I’ve done a few interviews with different people who work with different non-profit organizations and things like that who are really involved in the frontlines of social change. So I had one interview with a lady that I know here who is involved in gender violence projects and so we interviewed her and that was like I thought one of the best episodes I have a few people on the horizon that are international researchers or HD doing their PHC. I have a few just really interesting guests. One guy who is a cultural intelligence expert and yeah hoping to get his schedule he said yes. Now we see to get the dates figured out. So I think by the end of the year I think we’ll have some of these released. So I’m really excited about just getting more experts on Indian culture and people who come from this perspective from a cross-cultural perspective. And I think we need to get more. I would like to kind of take it in a more direction where we’re talking about social issues and some of the things that cause conflict or debate.

00:37:19

Yeah. Excellent. I’m looking forward to listening to more of those because listening to your podcast and talking to you really gives me a new perspective on the things that I go through in my life. I do have a little bit more of a reason for why you know this has happened or this person has said this. It sure just gives you a wider context. So that’s great. Well I look forward to hearing more on your podcast. And I look forward to talking to you more about some different things I’d love to hear know at a later time maybe what it’s like to raise kids in India. The difference between that and the US and you’ve got little kids 5 and 2.

00:38:03

Yeah I could even give you a little bit of advice if you Yes please. Oh. Well I knew some of your episodes I enjoyed listening to your son leaving for college and your daughter now.

00:38:18

That’s been really encouraging to me and to be able and one thing actually on one of your recent episodes with Sally I think you was talking about him and his wife and this is that they’re in right now of. Yeah yeah.

00:38:35

You have to do some things to kind of keep that romance alive and realizing that this is a phase the house always smells like poo. And this is I think in that just touched my heart. And I had been holding on to that for a couple weeks of yes that is the Phase I made. Yeah. The reality so and you do you need to hear from old people that yes it will pass.

00:39:00

So I definitely hear that.

00:39:05

All right well thank you so much for being here to talk with me. I really appreciate everything thank you so much.

00:39:11

I was really looking forward to this and just getting to speak with you and and I really enjoy your podcast I really think that it’s an important voice that you have and I think that there’s just a lot of discovery that needs to be done from so many different perspectives and I just appreciate what you’re doing.

00:39:32

Well thank you and likewise so I hope to have you on here again. I definitely would love to talk to you again. Thank you. I like to thank you. If you like this podcast so far. Please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it go on the awesome and leave a rating in a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S. Par Bhoo that’s p a r b h o o. Thanks for listening to Southern life Indian Wife.

The post Not Inside but Beside: a Conversation on Marrying into Indian Culture appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

Can you imagine going to your dream college 7000 miles from home?

My guest today is New York University sophomore Amin Ali and he did just that. I met Amin last year on dorm move in day, he had the privilege–or maybe the bad luck–to bunk right next to my son. I followed Amin’s freshman year story, was fascinated by his journey, and–as a mama–I wanted to know more about him.

Amin and I connected over love of authentic middle eastern food (4:38), he told me about growing up in his native Pakistan (7:04), how his sister–Top Chef alum Fatima Ali–fell in love with cooking (14:51), his decision to move to New York for school (19:09), how Fatima inspired him to follow his dreams at NYU (20:50), how he shares his culture with Americans (23:28), Amin told me about some of the foods he misses from home (26:28), why he’s obsessed with NYC halall carts (27:40), we discuss his potential plans to return to Pakistan after college (28:43), and how his relationship with his siblings has evolved over time (29:54).

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts  and TuneIn. Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagramand Twitter! And…email me at sherylparbhoo@gmail.com to order a signed copy of my book The Unexpected Daughter.

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid and I am fiercely proud of both. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Prabhoo and this is southern life Indian wife.

00:00:20

Can you imagine going to your dream college 7000 miles from home?

00:00:25

That plane ride is undoubtedly going to land you in a different country and probably a little bit of culture shock. My guest today is New York University sophomore Amin Ali and he did just that. I met Amin last year on dorm move in day. He had the privilege or maybe the bad luck to bunk right next to my son through my son’s stories of his new college friends. I followed Amin’s freshman year story and I was fascinated by his journey and as a mama I wanted to know more about him. The first thing I learned about him from my son was that he turned him on to cheap halal Street Food in Manhattan. I mean what bonds 19 year old boys more than food right? Amin is from Lahore, Pakistan. And instead of going into law like his father and two of his older siblings he’s a 3D artist and studies programming and economics at NYU. Even at the young age of 19 he’s no stranger to travel and meeting people of other cultures. He attended an international school in Islamabad and when his father served as Pakistan’s attorney general he had the opportunity to travel with him to Russia among other places with him. So Amin’s a lucky guy. Oh and did I tell you he loves food. He and I talked about what food means in his life and it’s more than just what fills his belly. Food anchors Amin to his culture to his family. The youngest of four, he grew up around people passionate about food. His father is an avid cook and his big sister Fatima, who passed away from cancer early this year was an internationally renowned chef and used to make special foods for him on her visits home. He and I talk about connections between Pakistani food and family exploring and sharing his cultural identity with his friends in New York following his sister’s footsteps of walking an exciting path in his life. That’s right for him his descriptions of the spicy foods back home made me hungry and maybe even a little willing to try some foods I never thought that I would. And now here’s Amin Ali .

00:02:43

I mean thank you so much for joining me on a Saturday.

00:02:46

I appreciate it very much.

00:02:48

No not at all. I’m sure you can hear my morning voice.

00:02:52

Yeah well it’s noon so I guess for a college student it’s morning right that’ll be it. Well I know that we tried to get together to talk for a long time. But you spent the summer in Pakistan. So how was that. Did you have a good summer.

00:03:09

There was a good summer. It was a lot of fun. I interned for two months at this company similar to BuzzFeed called Mango buzz huh.

00:03:20

That was very good. I went to Karachi but just met some friends. That was great. Spent a lot of time a good summer.

00:03:29

That’s wonderful. So now that you’re back in New York is it a little bit of a culture change culture shock to be away from family and home. No.

00:03:39

I’ve always loved New York.

00:03:44

Fairly used to it I think. OK well good.

00:03:48

Good. Well so you know that’s kind of one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about because when we met it move in day in the dorms last year I just thought this this kid’s really interesting because he’s from Pakistan. He doesn’t have his parents with them. And you know I didn’t know anything about you how much time you had spent in New York or in the U.S. and I just love getting to know people. So I wanted to ask you sort of like do you live sort of a double life you know separate your family you know your family time your Pakistani life with American life. And I wanted to also get to know you know what connects you to both sides of your world and food. You mentioned that you absolutely love to eat food which you know I love that most guys your age do you know what connection does food have with your culture and how do you share it with your friends and how does it all mix up together.

00:04:45

I mean I think like the biggest thing about food especially in my family I was even telling my roommate last night that we just love really really spicy. Aha. OK. So from a young age like my mom’s side of the family it’s like notoriously spicy food. OK. Whenever I have friends over there always like sweating spicy it’s always fun to see that I guess but it’s also really delicious for all of us.

00:05:13

Yeah yeah. So is this Pakistani food similar to Indian food. I’ve I’ve never had it.

00:05:20

I know the spiciness is common in many ways like there’s a lot of like overlap. I think there’s a bunch of principle differences at the same time not the best sauce. I was just asking my mom a recipe how to make a single point and which is like a take on scrambled eggs except my family just puts all this like bread chili in there.

00:05:46

So I don’t know there’s just a lot of spices in that knows craving it last night. So I ask her for the recipe.

00:05:53

That’s nice. It’s nice that you can call her up and get that from her. Yeah. When I married my husband the breakfast thing was the biggest shocker for me because I’m sure Adam told you you were from the south and you know everything is so bland here. And when his mom first made a spicy breakfast I almost died. We’re so not used to that here.

00:06:14

Sir you need a nap after those breakfasts we had to answer your question. I think there’s a lot of differences and similarities and at the same time I think Karachi has more similar food but again not the best sauce.

00:06:30

Yeah. Gotcha yeah. Now how old are you are you. 19 20. I’m 19. You’re 19. OK. So you’ve been around a lot but you still have a lot of places to go and lots of different things to try. You have a long time ahead of you.

00:06:43

Yeah I definitely started learning how to cook better food.

00:06:48

Well do you have a kitchen now in your place. I do. Good good. So you don’t have to eat at the NYU dining hall anymore.

00:06:55

I actually miss it sometimes it’s just so convenient.

00:06:58

Yeah you’ll have to learn how to feed yourself. That’s tough. Let’s talk a little bit about what it was like for you growing up in Pakistan. So you how many siblings do you have.

00:07:09

So I had three other siblings. OK. So it goes all this is Mohammed is Mohammed. He’s 34. He’s going to start studying law very soon. Oh good for him. My sister was Fatima. She was 29. Mm hmm. And she was a chef. She was amazing. And then there’s Zahra who’s 22 who is also studying law. OK. I don’t tell her this often but she cooks pretty good food too.

00:07:45

Yeah but you don’t want to give her a big head about it. No that’s funny. Your brother do that. No of course not. And you’re the baby of the family. So are you totally spoiled.

00:07:57

I think so.

00:07:58

Yes yes yes. So when you were growing up you had a lot of siblings around. I guess he was.

00:08:07

No it was mostly just means OK Bahamas had gone to college but I was like three years old. Mm hmm. Autumn I was gone when I was seven. Oh yeah. So they would just come every winter they would stay upstairs and we’d all decided like a really good time. That’s awesome. Or to winter one one of them or both of them would come and be amazing. But I would come all this delicious food mode bringing all these presents like that.

00:08:44

Yeah that’s great. So like big fun family time. So you didn’t have to worry about those two being the mean older brother and sister because they weren’t there.

00:08:54

My brother is 15 years older and 14 I was eleven years older than me. So I think like I mean bully older brother. Thing was I don’t know I think that’s happens when there’s a smaller age gap.

00:09:09

Yeah definitely. I’m sure Adam told you about him and his twin brother how they got along and they did not get along. I’m always curious about this because I grew up in the US when McDonald’s was on the rise and we had frozen dinners and that was just sort of our culture. My mom was not a big cook but did your mom cook. Was it like a huge family deal for you.

00:09:32

My mom does not know how to cook anything. She gave me one recipe that’s awesome.

00:09:40

I love her already because I hate to cook.

00:09:43

My dad cooks all the time. It makes Chinese food makes great food and makes Pakistani food. And he’s pretty good. That’s his way to wind down after work.

00:09:54

I think Wow I’m impressed that that’s a way to find out because for me that’s kind of a stress that’s just not my thing. So I love that I wish my husband knew how to cook. You’re very lucky. Yeah. So like the holidays when you were there. Well first of all I had to just establish you are Muslim correct.

00:10:16

Yes.

00:10:17

OK so what are your big holidays that revolve around food. Because I know here we have Christmas and turkey and Thanksgiving and all the American stuff. So what kinds of things did you guys have there.

00:10:28

Well I guess the bigger ones would be eat or eat.

00:10:32

There’s Eid where you sit there and there’s another I’m giving up one of the Eids there just on the kids or getting money huh. All the older people we call it. Huh. So that would be exciting and then we would post lunches every year. So we cook a lot of food on the fridge still believe there’s three days of eat kind of a we get up in the morning we go read our prayer is like a big space with everyone and then right next to where we pray would be my grandmother’s house and then my entire family would get together there we’d have a big breakfast and probably be like 20 25 different things on the table. Oh my goodness. When we just demolish all of it today five different people and then around 2:00 3:00 everyone started rolling in for lunch. Lots of food there. And then on the second DVD there’d be a dinner. My cousin’s house so I’d go there. So that’s one of the aides Second it is would you sacrifice either a camel cow or it’s just a it’s a it’s a whole you’ve sacrificed an animal and then you eat it.

00:11:56

OK. Is that something like individual families will do so you can either.

00:12:03

Like no other services to do it for you so you just give them money to do it and then you meet in the sun and meet wherever you want like charity or leg to people or like a village where you can have it done in your house.

00:12:17

What did you guys do.

00:12:18

We would. So my family would like my immediate family we would do it at my uncle’s base. OK but whenever we’d be doing it it would be after morning prayers during breakfast. Like right before breakfast on the day we’d step outside. I always hated watching it. I still can’t watch it. That would be hard. I’ve had to do it once with my cousin. Yeah well I was kind of scary like it but I just love this is like what we eat for once that meets all cleaned up process whatever. Then it goes in the kitchen gets cooked like it’s for lunches or dinners. Oh yeah.

00:13:09

The that’s really cool that it’s such a traditional get together for family. Everybody does it together enjoys it together. I love that because we don’t really have that so much here.

00:13:23

Our families are not really sort of funded as much I guess would be similar to Thanksgiving in the sense that huh. There’s a big turkey. Everyone gets together to eat you know. Yeah in that sense maybe.

00:13:40

Yeah. It sounds like it. Yeah I think every every people around the world have just have to at least have one big thing that they spend their time together with family. We we get our turkey frozen from the grocery store. I don’t know if I could ever slaughter something.

00:13:56

Oh yeah it can be intimidating. I’m definitely committed by it.

00:14:00

Yeah but it’s it’s just one of those things it’s part of. It’s how you grew up. Yeah. And that’s OK.

00:14:06

I know my husband grew up in South Africa in a community that had it was predominantly South Asians and there were Muslims that were his neighbors. And he said that they would slaughter their animal in the yard. And he thought it was pretty cool. But their perspective is these are all a bunch of vegetarian Indians. So I can’t imagine what it’s like for them to see that because I mean we cook meat in my house. And that was hard for them to get used to and they never saw it get killed. So but it’s interesting how people can observe other people’s traditions and you know hey it’s ok it’s what you do.

00:14:41

We all get along. You know. Absolutely. So your sister Fatima was gone when you were young your older brother was gone. Fatima was a chef. So did she learn her love of cooking from I guess not your mom because she didn’t cook but how does she learn the love of cooking.

00:15:00

I think she picked a lot of it up for my dad and then. OK I think she’s just been cooking since she was like a 6 year old. Now your own. Yeah. Yeah. Oh always doing it.

00:15:12

Did she cook for you.

00:15:13

Were you the little brother that she doted on whenever she would come widely bother her. What I thought was really late at night I’ll be like 10:00 11:00 p.m. I would be like making a bus that she’d make like the same pass that every time it would be delicious. Oh. And then a couple years ago in Islamabad she made the fish. I don’t remember which one I was too busy day and everyone got one piece and I had to because it was just way too good. Whatever she was there and something was happening you can cook and everyone.

00:15:51

Oh that’s amazing. That’s such a blessing and I haven’t said it. Yes but I have to give you my condolences for her passing I know she passed in January correct. Yeah yeah. So I’m very sorry about that and I know I don’t want you to feel uncomfortable or if it’s hard for you to talk about so you just let me know. So you went to high school in Islamabad to an international school.

00:16:18

Yes. In Lahore I was in Lahore American school. I think disclose five hundred people as well as probably around 40 45 and then in Islamabad it’s a school that I think 250 people. And then each class I think we had a big class we had like 17 18 people were in the school with international students or was it. I was like OK there they’re people from all over Canada. A lot of a lot of people from different countries in Europe. There was some student from China it was predominately brown people no Pakistani people. Huh. And my 10th grade my sophomore year there were three four Indians in my class. OK but like obviously because the Pakistan India tensions that to go back the next year.

00:17:09

Yeah. I can’t even imagine what that was like.

00:17:12

It was just like people leaving from your school like you knew the reasons why. Like there was some raw agents tons in our school stuff like that. So I don’t know it was just a lot of politics. They were like I’m still in touch with them they’re good people they’re good friends.

00:17:29

You grew up kind of getting to know people just for who the person is and not because they’re Hindu in Europe. European. No. And your dad is a pretty high profile attorney there in the country so did that help you to be exposed to more different people than maybe you would have if I traveled with him.

00:17:52

And she was in the government. So I met a lot of like when I went to Russia then I was that was a cool. I know the other word for it. That’s a really cool people really really educated people. Translator had a page D. Wow this was very cool. But in Pakistan. Not so much. Only when I traveled with him.

00:18:17

OK. Yeah. OK. So you really had a good opportunity to be exposed to the world before you even set foot in New York for college right.

00:18:27

You know we sent Adam up there to New York and we live in a very suburban ninety nine percent white community it’s actually pretty rural. So Adam’s dad is probably the brown US guy in the area. And then Adam was you know half brown and when he moved up to New York he said he felt like the whitest guy around which was interesting to me because there’s so many different diverse people in New York. And it was a great thing in my mind for him to be exposed to that to broaden horizons so yeah for you I guess it was just sort of the same old thing you’re just used to being immersed in lots of different kinds of people.

00:19:07

But New York is like a whole different level though.

00:19:09

Yeah. So what made you decide to attend NYU. Because you probably could have gone to many many other places.

00:19:15

It was the best school I got into. It’s been my dream school for a couple of years. My cousins went here and I just grew up hearing about them going and what you created is there in New York. All that kind of stuff.

00:19:32

Yeah yeah. NYU is pretty darn great.

00:19:35

Yeah. And I’m pretty lucky to be here. It’s just where I’ve always pictured myself being OK. I applied to need probably six schools in New York City. This is where I wanted to be.

00:19:47

Well congratulations for achieving that goal. That’s pretty incredible. Thank you. Do you plan on staying in New York. Are you gonna go back to Pakistan when you graduate.

00:19:57

I think I’d like to work in California somewhere.

00:20:01

What is your major your Econ major.

00:20:04

My second major is in economics. I got him. We’re single Interactive Media Arts and School of Arts. Mm hmm.

00:20:13

So that folks around like VR a lot of programming. I’m mostly going to programming stuff but you’re required to take design courses of all video courses things like that. I think I’m trying to prepare myself like the startup space as soon as I’m out like even a junior senior year.

00:20:34

Wow fantastic. So you have a father who’s an attorney and then two siblings that are gonna be attorneys. So what did your parents say when you and Fatima decided not to go in that direction is it cool with them or would they prefer you know sort of the same now. Is that the way forward.

00:20:52

No honors she said that I’m doing this.

00:20:56

I want to be the best doing that like the best person added and that’s what that let me do it right.

00:21:04

She promised him that if you delivered and ever really happen and I don’t think I would be sitting here speaking to you if it wasn’t for her doing that her bravery. Gosh that’s making me tear up my main argument was five miles doing it. I can’t. Yeah. How can your parents say no to that. I think my dad wanted me to go to law school. I went in as an animation major. That’s what I’ve been doing for two years so I packed up a bunch of wide schools NYU and Northeastern in Boston. We’re like the two schools that weren’t art schools. Mm hmm. And a couple of the U.S. schools where I applied for computer science but my parents are pretty easy going with this kind of stuff. They’re pretty liberal they’re open minded about studying things but you want to study. That’s lucky. By the end it’s like the entire college process. When I go all like the decisions back. My dad was like All right this is like your decision. You have to study this is your life your study. You love it. It’s gonna be your day in day out routine right.

00:22:10

Well you yeah. You’ve got great parents that give you that opportunity to have that freedom. So you’re very blessed because of that yeah. So what was it like. Your leaving home to live in New York. Your parents. Are they still in Pakistan. Most of the time all of the time they live there.

00:22:30

But my mom tends to travel a lot huh. But they’re mostly in Pakistan.

00:22:36

OK so was that hard for you being away from home and they weren’t too new.

00:22:41

Because of my situation my parents were there my entire first semester. OK. They were just living across the Hudson in Jersey City. Oh OK well that’s all I would see them like four times a week five times a week at the hospital.

00:22:59

So it’s good that you were able to be with them. I was sorry about the circumstances. That’s yeah.

00:23:06

I’m so sorry they were there so like the first year wasn’t too bad in terms of homesickness.

00:23:13

Yeah. That’s wonderful. I mean it’s wonderful that you were able to be together. Yeah at that time for your sister. But this year you’ve got a fresh start. You’re living in a new apartment. Things are different. How do you relate to the kids that you go to school with. So I’m assuming you’re not there with just you know regular run of the mill American kids all the time but your identity as a Pakistani as a Muslim is that something that ever comes up. Do you share with them. Do you learn about their cultures.

00:23:46

Yeah like one of my really good friends who is with Adam. It’s just a bunch of us who were living together. Three girls who were just down the hall last year. We Sharma. Sabrina. There was Abby. Like they’re just a bunch of us. We’d all like chill together in our room because we had a big room and I think a lot of the big bases of my jokes was just like things I would we would see in Pakistan. The way we see them like a lot of my jokes come from my heritage I guess they like to poke fun at it or yeah like it.

00:24:25

Yeah. OK. Do you know the comedian Russell Peters. I do. OK so I love him because he pokes fun at every body he published. And it’s great. It’s like an equal opportunity offender. Yeah and I love it because you know we have a multicultural family I just think it’s amazing that you can get to know people by laughing at each other. And I have an Indian friend who doesn’t like him because she’s very offended by the things that he says that she feels like he’s making fun of her and her culture. But I don’t know. It doesn’t sound like you see things that way either.

00:25:01

No. Are you familiar with Husain Minaj.

00:25:04

Yes I love him.

00:25:06

Yeah. So huge. He does the same things that he makes fun of brown people. And I enjoys his sense of humor. Like the things. Russell Peters and like I said Minaj make fun of. Like if you lived in like a Brown family you know exactly what they’re doing. Yes. Well they may make those jokes. That’s why I think it works.

00:25:33

Yeah I agree. And I think you know non brown people benefit from hearing that because you know if I hadn’t married my Indian husband I wouldn’t know anything about South Asian people. Anybody from outside of the Western world because I’m just not exposed to it. So I think that hearing comedians like that gives other people a really good sense of who South Asians are because some people will look at brown people and say well you’re not like me so I don’t like you and I don’t want to know you.

00:26:04

And it also puts it in like a very relaxed light like you can make you’re watching this standup comedian make fun of their own culture. I don’t know anything bad about laughing with them.

00:26:18

Yeah I think humor is the key to survival in this life. If you can’t laugh at yourself and at other people then it’s dismal. So is there any particular food that you miss from home or any special food that you’ve fallen in love with in New York that you can’t live without.

00:26:38

Probably the biggest thing I’d miss from Pakistan is the single mothers. It’s like good brain and what. Yeah it’s good. There you have it. With the non it’s go to brain like tomato sauce except like an expiry. You’re in there.

00:27:01

How. What’s the texture. I’m not opposed to eating different.

00:27:04

So it’s honestly like scrambled eggs like scrambled egg whites slightly firmer can you. It’s delicious. Yeah. I could do that. It sounds really really gross but it’s amazing.

00:27:20

All right. I think I think I could do that and you have to have your parents invite me over for dinner and I’ll try it.

00:27:26

My dad would make it for me every Sunday.

00:27:29

Very cool. So what have you fallen in love with in New York. Is there anything that you had hadn’t had before. You can get there now.

00:27:36

It’s not something I haven’t had before but like your son can confirm this. I really really I’m obsessed with the hello carts. Oh yes right. So the Lamb of rice.

00:27:48

Yeah. You’ve turned him on to that too. I heard about was Hello. Hello. Hello.

00:27:54

It’s cheap food. You get a lot of bread. I think it’s one of the reasons I moved to New York.

00:28:00

Street food. Yeah. Is their street food in the play. OK.

00:28:07

Huge. It’s probably majority like how the where the Blackstone eats.

00:28:14

Wow. So when I passed by a hill cart in New York I see flies and that kind of makes me squeamish. So I haven’t tried it yet. Is that a concern.

00:28:25

For six bucks. Nope. Spoken like a true college student.

00:28:30

Yeah. It’s so much food. It’s like a good amount of money huh. And it tastes so good. I’m probably in get some later today.

00:28:41

That’s funny. So what are your future plans. You’re gonna graduate from NYU and do you want to stay in California permanently or do you think you would ever want to go back to Pakistan to live.

00:28:55

I think I’d want to make a little bit of money. Figure out how stuff works over here and try not to get out of there. Startup culture is just about to take off over there and I think I’d like to give it a shot.

00:29:11

Yeah OK well good for you. Good for you. I’ve been absolutely amazed. I have followed things on social media and the outpouring of love that your sister was given by the world. I mean how did that make you feel.

00:29:26

Was that just absolutely wonderful to see that Joe was really nice to see a real in reaching out offering their support and love and prayers. I think for everyone it was overall pretty positive to have all of these people just expressing all their love and support to you.

00:29:49

Yeah that’s wonderful. Now are you. Are you closer to your siblings now or are you just kind of doing your thing in New York and living your life.

00:29:58

I think I’m definitely closer to my brothers aren’t I. We lived in the same house for ever. Muhammad was off to college you lived in Australia and moved to L.A. last year. I’ve never lived with him but now that he has like a little bit of free time and we spend like a summer together in Buxton I think we’re in I in our closeness of relationship.

00:30:28

Good. Good. Well look I really appreciate you taking out time on a Saturday morning to talk to me because I know you’ve probably got a million and one things that you’d rather be doing hanging out with friends. So yeah. Thank you so much for the conversation and I really think that you know people listening are going to love your story because people are interested and other people’s experiences and I think you have a lot of really good insight and experiences and just 19 years which is pretty amazing to me. So I wish you the very best.

00:31:04

Thank you. It was really really good speaking to you. I hope to hear from you soon through Adam.

00:31:10

Oh definitely definitely.

00:31:12

And maybe I’ll see you the next time we come up there. Yeah for sure. OK. We’ll take care and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

00:31:29

If you like this podcast so far. Please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it. Go on be awesome and leave a rating and a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S. Parbh oo. That’s P A R B H O O. Thanks for listening to Southern life. Indian wife.

The post 7000 miles from home with NYU sophomore Amin Ali [podcast] appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

Can you imagine going to your dream college 7000 miles from home?

My guest today is New York University sophomore Amin Ali and he did just that. I met Amin last year on dorm move in day, he had the privilege–or maybe the bad luck–to bunk right next to my son. I followed Amin’s freshman year story, was fascinated by his journey, and–as a mama–I wanted to know more about him.

Amin and I connected over love of authentic middle eastern food (4:38), he told me about growing up in his native Pakistan (7:04), how his sister–Top Chef alum Fatima Ali–fell in love with cooking (14:51), his decision to move to New York for school (19:09), how Fatima inspired him to follow his dreams at NYU (20:50), how he shares his culture with Americans (23:28), Amin told me about some of the foods he misses from home (26:28), why he’s obsessed with NYC halall carts (27:40), we discuss his potential plans to return to Pakistan after college (28:43), and how his relationship with his siblings has evolved over time (29:54).

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts  and TuneIn. Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagramand Twitter! And…email me at sherylparbhoo@gmail.com to order a signed copy of my book The Unexpected Daughter.

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid and I am fiercely proud of both. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Prabhoo and this is southern life Indian wife.

00:00:20

Can you imagine going to your dream college 7000 miles from home?

00:00:25

That plane ride is undoubtedly going to land you in a different country and probably a little bit of culture shock. My guest today is New York University sophomore Amin Ali and he did just that. I met Amin last year on dorm move in day. He had the privilege or maybe the bad luck to bunk right next to my son through my son’s stories of his new college friends. I followed Amin’s freshman year story and I was fascinated by his journey and as a mama I wanted to know more about him. The first thing I learned about him from my son was that he turned him on to cheap halal Street Food in Manhattan. I mean what bonds 19 year old boys more than food right? Amin is from Lahore, Pakistan. And instead of going into law like his father and two of his older siblings he’s a 3D artist and studies programming and economics at NYU. Even at the young age of 19 he’s no stranger to travel and meeting people of other cultures. He attended an international school in Islamabad and when his father served as Pakistan’s attorney general he had the opportunity to travel with him to Russia among other places with him. So Amin’s a lucky guy. Oh and did I tell you he loves food. He and I talked about what food means in his life and it’s more than just what fills his belly. Food anchors Amin to his culture to his family. The youngest of four, he grew up around people passionate about food. His father is an avid cook and his big sister Fatima, who passed away from cancer early this year was an internationally renowned chef and used to make special foods for him on her visits home. He and I talk about connections between Pakistani food and family exploring and sharing his cultural identity with his friends in New York following his sister’s footsteps of walking an exciting path in his life. That’s right for him his descriptions of the spicy foods back home made me hungry and maybe even a little willing to try some foods I never thought that I would. And now here’s Amin Ali .

00:02:43

I mean thank you so much for joining me on a Saturday.

00:02:46

I appreciate it very much.

00:02:48

No not at all. I’m sure you can hear my morning voice.

00:02:52

Yeah well it’s noon so I guess for a college student it’s morning right that’ll be it. Well I know that we tried to get together to talk for a long time. But you spent the summer in Pakistan. So how was that. Did you have a good summer.

00:03:09

There was a good summer. It was a lot of fun. I interned for two months at this company similar to BuzzFeed called Mango buzz huh.

00:03:20

That was very good. I went to Karachi but just met some friends. That was great. Spent a lot of time a good summer.

00:03:29

That’s wonderful. So now that you’re back in New York is it a little bit of a culture change culture shock to be away from family and home. No.

00:03:39

I’ve always loved New York.

00:03:44

Fairly used to it I think. OK well good.

00:03:48

Good. Well so you know that’s kind of one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about because when we met it move in day in the dorms last year I just thought this this kid’s really interesting because he’s from Pakistan. He doesn’t have his parents with them. And you know I didn’t know anything about you how much time you had spent in New York or in the U.S. and I just love getting to know people. So I wanted to ask you sort of like do you live sort of a double life you know separate your family you know your family time your Pakistani life with American life. And I wanted to also get to know you know what connects you to both sides of your world and food. You mentioned that you absolutely love to eat food which you know I love that most guys your age do you know what connection does food have with your culture and how do you share it with your friends and how does it all mix up together.

00:04:45

I mean I think like the biggest thing about food especially in my family I was even telling my roommate last night that we just love really really spicy. Aha. OK. So from a young age like my mom’s side of the family it’s like notoriously spicy food. OK. Whenever I have friends over there always like sweating spicy it’s always fun to see that I guess but it’s also really delicious for all of us.

00:05:13

Yeah yeah. So is this Pakistani food similar to Indian food. I’ve I’ve never had it.

00:05:20

I know the spiciness is common in many ways like there’s a lot of like overlap. I think there’s a bunch of principle differences at the same time not the best sauce. I was just asking my mom a recipe how to make a single point and which is like a take on scrambled eggs except my family just puts all this like bread chili in there.

00:05:46

So I don’t know there’s just a lot of spices in that knows craving it last night. So I ask her for the recipe.

00:05:53

That’s nice. It’s nice that you can call her up and get that from her. Yeah. When I married my husband the breakfast thing was the biggest shocker for me because I’m sure Adam told you you were from the south and you know everything is so bland here. And when his mom first made a spicy breakfast I almost died. We’re so not used to that here.

00:06:14

Sir you need a nap after those breakfasts we had to answer your question. I think there’s a lot of differences and similarities and at the same time I think Karachi has more similar food but again not the best sauce.

00:06:30

Yeah. Gotcha yeah. Now how old are you are you. 19 20. I’m 19. You’re 19. OK. So you’ve been around a lot but you still have a lot of places to go and lots of different things to try. You have a long time ahead of you.

00:06:43

Yeah I definitely started learning how to cook better food.

00:06:48

Well do you have a kitchen now in your place. I do. Good good. So you don’t have to eat at the NYU dining hall anymore.

00:06:55

I actually miss it sometimes it’s just so convenient.

00:06:58

Yeah you’ll have to learn how to feed yourself. That’s tough. Let’s talk a little bit about what it was like for you growing up in Pakistan. So you how many siblings do you have.

00:07:09

So I had three other siblings. OK. So it goes all this is Mohammed is Mohammed. He’s 34. He’s going to start studying law very soon. Oh good for him. My sister was Fatima. She was 29. Mm hmm. And she was a chef. She was amazing. And then there’s Zahra who’s 22 who is also studying law. OK. I don’t tell her this often but she cooks pretty good food too.

00:07:45

Yeah but you don’t want to give her a big head about it. No that’s funny. Your brother do that. No of course not. And you’re the baby of the family. So are you totally spoiled.

00:07:57

I think so.

00:07:58

Yes yes yes. So when you were growing up you had a lot of siblings around. I guess he was.

00:08:07

No it was mostly just means OK Bahamas had gone to college but I was like three years old. Mm hmm. Autumn I was gone when I was seven. Oh yeah. So they would just come every winter they would stay upstairs and we’d all decided like a really good time. That’s awesome. Or to winter one one of them or both of them would come and be amazing. But I would come all this delicious food mode bringing all these presents like that.

00:08:44

Yeah that’s great. So like big fun family time. So you didn’t have to worry about those two being the mean older brother and sister because they weren’t there.

00:08:54

My brother is 15 years older and 14 I was eleven years older than me. So I think like I mean bully older brother. Thing was I don’t know I think that’s happens when there’s a smaller age gap.

00:09:09

Yeah definitely. I’m sure Adam told you about him and his twin brother how they got along and they did not get along. I’m always curious about this because I grew up in the US when McDonald’s was on the rise and we had frozen dinners and that was just sort of our culture. My mom was not a big cook but did your mom cook. Was it like a huge family deal for you.

00:09:32

My mom does not know how to cook anything. She gave me one recipe that’s awesome.

00:09:40

I love her already because I hate to cook.

00:09:43

My dad cooks all the time. It makes Chinese food makes great food and makes Pakistani food. And he’s pretty good. That’s his way to wind down after work.

00:09:54

I think Wow I’m impressed that that’s a way to find out because for me that’s kind of a stress that’s just not my thing. So I love that I wish my husband knew how to cook. You’re very lucky. Yeah. So like the holidays when you were there. Well first of all I had to just establish you are Muslim correct.

00:10:16

Yes.

00:10:17

OK so what are your big holidays that revolve around food. Because I know here we have Christmas and turkey and Thanksgiving and all the American stuff. So what kinds of things did you guys have there.

00:10:28

Well I guess the bigger ones would be eat or eat.

00:10:32

There’s Eid where you sit there and there’s another I’m giving up one of the Eids there just on the kids or getting money huh. All the older people we call it. Huh. So that would be exciting and then we would post lunches every year. So we cook a lot of food on the fridge still believe there’s three days of eat kind of a we get up in the morning we go read our prayer is like a big space with everyone and then right next to where we pray would be my grandmother’s house and then my entire family would get together there we’d have a big breakfast and probably be like 20 25 different things on the table. Oh my goodness. When we just demolish all of it today five different people and then around 2:00 3:00 everyone started rolling in for lunch. Lots of food there. And then on the second DVD there’d be a dinner. My cousin’s house so I’d go there. So that’s one of the aides Second it is would you sacrifice either a camel cow or it’s just a it’s a it’s a whole you’ve sacrificed an animal and then you eat it.

00:11:56

OK. Is that something like individual families will do so you can either.

00:12:03

Like no other services to do it for you so you just give them money to do it and then you meet in the sun and meet wherever you want like charity or leg to people or like a village where you can have it done in your house.

00:12:17

What did you guys do.

00:12:18

We would. So my family would like my immediate family we would do it at my uncle’s base. OK but whenever we’d be doing it it would be after morning prayers during breakfast. Like right before breakfast on the day we’d step outside. I always hated watching it. I still can’t watch it. That would be hard. I’ve had to do it once with my cousin. Yeah well I was kind of scary like it but I just love this is like what we eat for once that meets all cleaned up process whatever. Then it goes in the kitchen gets cooked like it’s for lunches or dinners. Oh yeah.

00:13:09

The that’s really cool that it’s such a traditional get together for family. Everybody does it together enjoys it together. I love that because we don’t really have that so much here.

00:13:23

Our families are not really sort of funded as much I guess would be similar to Thanksgiving in the sense that huh. There’s a big turkey. Everyone gets together to eat you know. Yeah in that sense maybe.

00:13:40

Yeah. It sounds like it. Yeah I think every every people around the world have just have to at least have one big thing that they spend their time together with family. We we get our turkey frozen from the grocery store. I don’t know if I could ever slaughter something.

00:13:56

Oh yeah it can be intimidating. I’m definitely committed by it.

00:14:00

Yeah but it’s it’s just one of those things it’s part of. It’s how you grew up. Yeah. And that’s OK.

00:14:06

I know my husband grew up in South Africa in a community that had it was predominantly South Asians and there were Muslims that were his neighbors. And he said that they would slaughter their animal in the yard. And he thought it was pretty cool. But their perspective is these are all a bunch of vegetarian Indians. So I can’t imagine what it’s like for them to see that because I mean we cook meat in my house. And that was hard for them to get used to and they never saw it get killed. So but it’s interesting how people can observe other people’s traditions and you know hey it’s ok it’s what you do.

00:14:41

We all get along. You know. Absolutely. So your sister Fatima was gone when you were young your older brother was gone. Fatima was a chef. So did she learn her love of cooking from I guess not your mom because she didn’t cook but how does she learn the love of cooking.

00:15:00

I think she picked a lot of it up for my dad and then. OK I think she’s just been cooking since she was like a 6 year old. Now your own. Yeah. Yeah. Oh always doing it.

00:15:12

Did she cook for you.

00:15:13

Were you the little brother that she doted on whenever she would come widely bother her. What I thought was really late at night I’ll be like 10:00 11:00 p.m. I would be like making a bus that she’d make like the same pass that every time it would be delicious. Oh. And then a couple years ago in Islamabad she made the fish. I don’t remember which one I was too busy day and everyone got one piece and I had to because it was just way too good. Whatever she was there and something was happening you can cook and everyone.

00:15:51

Oh that’s amazing. That’s such a blessing and I haven’t said it. Yes but I have to give you my condolences for her passing I know she passed in January correct. Yeah yeah. So I’m very sorry about that and I know I don’t want you to feel uncomfortable or if it’s hard for you to talk about so you just let me know. So you went to high school in Islamabad to an international school.

00:16:18

Yes. In Lahore I was in Lahore American school. I think disclose five hundred people as well as probably around 40 45 and then in Islamabad it’s a school that I think 250 people. And then each class I think we had a big class we had like 17 18 people were in the school with international students or was it. I was like OK there they’re people from all over Canada. A lot of a lot of people from different countries in Europe. There was some student from China it was predominately brown people no Pakistani people. Huh. And my 10th grade my sophomore year there were three four Indians in my class. OK but like obviously because the Pakistan India tensions that to go back the next year.

00:17:09

Yeah. I can’t even imagine what that was like.

00:17:12

It was just like people leaving from your school like you knew the reasons why. Like there was some raw agents tons in our school stuff like that. So I don’t know it was just a lot of politics. They were like I’m still in touch with them they’re good people they’re good friends.

00:17:29

You grew up kind of getting to know people just for who the person is and not because they’re Hindu in Europe. European. No. And your dad is a pretty high profile attorney there in the country so did that help you to be exposed to more different people than maybe you would have if I traveled with him.

00:17:52

And she was in the government. So I met a lot of like when I went to Russia then I was that was a cool. I know the other word for it. That’s a really cool people really really educated people. Translator had a page D. Wow this was very cool. But in Pakistan. Not so much. Only when I traveled with him.

00:18:17

OK. Yeah. OK. So you really had a good opportunity to be exposed to the world before you even set foot in New York for college right.

00:18:27

You know we sent Adam up there to New York and we live in a very suburban ninety nine percent white community it’s actually pretty rural. So Adam’s dad is probably the brown US guy in the area. And then Adam was you know half brown and when he moved up to New York he said he felt like the whitest guy around which was interesting to me because there’s so many different diverse people in New York. And it was a great thing in my mind for him to be exposed to that to broaden horizons so yeah for you I guess it was just sort of the same old thing you’re just used to being immersed in lots of different kinds of people.

00:19:07

But New York is like a whole different level though.

00:19:09

Yeah. So what made you decide to attend NYU. Because you probably could have gone to many many other places.

00:19:15

It was the best school I got into. It’s been my dream school for a couple of years. My cousins went here and I just grew up hearing about them going and what you created is there in New York. All that kind of stuff.

00:19:32

Yeah yeah. NYU is pretty darn great.

00:19:35

Yeah. And I’m pretty lucky to be here. It’s just where I’ve always pictured myself being OK. I applied to need probably six schools in New York City. This is where I wanted to be.

00:19:47

Well congratulations for achieving that goal. That’s pretty incredible. Thank you. Do you plan on staying in New York. Are you gonna go back to Pakistan when you graduate.

00:19:57

I think I’d like to work in California somewhere.

00:20:01

What is your major your Econ major.

00:20:04

My second major is in economics. I got him. We’re single Interactive Media Arts and School of Arts. Mm hmm.

00:20:13

So that folks around like VR a lot of programming. I’m mostly going to programming stuff but you’re required to take design courses of all video courses things like that. I think I’m trying to prepare myself like the startup space as soon as I’m out like even a junior senior year.

00:20:34

Wow fantastic. So you have a father who’s an attorney and then two siblings that are gonna be attorneys. So what did your parents say when you and Fatima decided not to go in that direction is it cool with them or would they prefer you know sort of the same now. Is that the way forward.

00:20:52

No honors she said that I’m doing this.

00:20:56

I want to be the best doing that like the best person added and that’s what that let me do it right.

00:21:04

She promised him that if you delivered and ever really happen and I don’t think I would be sitting here speaking to you if it wasn’t for her doing that her bravery. Gosh that’s making me tear up my main argument was five miles doing it. I can’t. Yeah. How can your parents say no to that. I think my dad wanted me to go to law school. I went in as an animation major. That’s what I’ve been doing for two years so I packed up a bunch of wide schools NYU and Northeastern in Boston. We’re like the two schools that weren’t art schools. Mm hmm. And a couple of the U.S. schools where I applied for computer science but my parents are pretty easy going with this kind of stuff. They’re pretty liberal they’re open minded about studying things but you want to study. That’s lucky. By the end it’s like the entire college process. When I go all like the decisions back. My dad was like All right this is like your decision. You have to study this is your life your study. You love it. It’s gonna be your day in day out routine right.

00:22:10

Well you yeah. You’ve got great parents that give you that opportunity to have that freedom. So you’re very blessed because of that yeah. So what was it like. Your leaving home to live in New York. Your parents. Are they still in Pakistan. Most of the time all of the time they live there.

00:22:30

But my mom tends to travel a lot huh. But they’re mostly in Pakistan.

00:22:36

OK so was that hard for you being away from home and they weren’t too new.

00:22:41

Because of my situation my parents were there my entire first semester. OK. They were just living across the Hudson in Jersey City. Oh OK well that’s all I would see them like four times a week five times a week at the hospital.

00:22:59

So it’s good that you were able to be with them. I was sorry about the circumstances. That’s yeah.

00:23:06

I’m so sorry they were there so like the first year wasn’t too bad in terms of homesickness.

00:23:13

Yeah. That’s wonderful. I mean it’s wonderful that you were able to be together. Yeah at that time for your sister. But this year you’ve got a fresh start. You’re living in a new apartment. Things are different. How do you relate to the kids that you go to school with. So I’m assuming you’re not there with just you know regular run of the mill American kids all the time but your identity as a Pakistani as a Muslim is that something that ever comes up. Do you share with them. Do you learn about their cultures.

00:23:46

Yeah like one of my really good friends who is with Adam. It’s just a bunch of us who were living together. Three girls who were just down the hall last year. We Sharma. Sabrina. There was Abby. Like they’re just a bunch of us. We’d all like chill together in our room because we had a big room and I think a lot of the big bases of my jokes was just like things I would we would see in Pakistan. The way we see them like a lot of my jokes come from my heritage I guess they like to poke fun at it or yeah like it.

00:24:25

Yeah. OK. Do you know the comedian Russell Peters. I do. OK so I love him because he pokes fun at every body he published. And it’s great. It’s like an equal opportunity offender. Yeah and I love it because you know we have a multicultural family I just think it’s amazing that you can get to know people by laughing at each other. And I have an Indian friend who doesn’t like him because she’s very offended by the things that he says that she feels like he’s making fun of her and her culture. But I don’t know. It doesn’t sound like you see things that way either.

00:25:01

No. Are you familiar with Husain Minaj.

00:25:04

Yes I love him.

00:25:06

Yeah. So huge. He does the same things that he makes fun of brown people. And I enjoys his sense of humor. Like the things. Russell Peters and like I said Minaj make fun of. Like if you lived in like a Brown family you know exactly what they’re doing. Yes. Well they may make those jokes. That’s why I think it works.

00:25:33

Yeah I agree. And I think you know non brown people benefit from hearing that because you know if I hadn’t married my Indian husband I wouldn’t know anything about South Asian people. Anybody from outside of the Western world because I’m just not exposed to it. So I think that hearing comedians like that gives other people a really good sense of who South Asians are because some people will look at brown people and say well you’re not like me so I don’t like you and I don’t want to know you.

00:26:04

And it also puts it in like a very relaxed light like you can make you’re watching this standup comedian make fun of their own culture. I don’t know anything bad about laughing with them.

00:26:18

Yeah I think humor is the key to survival in this life. If you can’t laugh at yourself and at other people then it’s dismal. So is there any particular food that you miss from home or any special food that you’ve fallen in love with in New York that you can’t live without.

00:26:38

Probably the biggest thing I’d miss from Pakistan is the single mothers. It’s like good brain and what. Yeah it’s good. There you have it. With the non it’s go to brain like tomato sauce except like an expiry. You’re in there.

00:27:01

How. What’s the texture. I’m not opposed to eating different.

00:27:04

So it’s honestly like scrambled eggs like scrambled egg whites slightly firmer can you. It’s delicious. Yeah. I could do that. It sounds really really gross but it’s amazing.

00:27:20

All right. I think I think I could do that and you have to have your parents invite me over for dinner and I’ll try it.

00:27:26

My dad would make it for me every Sunday.

00:27:29

Very cool. So what have you fallen in love with in New York. Is there anything that you had hadn’t had before. You can get there now.

00:27:36

It’s not something I haven’t had before but like your son can confirm this. I really really I’m obsessed with the hello carts. Oh yes right. So the Lamb of rice.

00:27:48

Yeah. You’ve turned him on to that too. I heard about was Hello. Hello. Hello.

00:27:54

It’s cheap food. You get a lot of bread. I think it’s one of the reasons I moved to New York.

00:28:00

Street food. Yeah. Is their street food in the play. OK.

00:28:07

Huge. It’s probably majority like how the where the Blackstone eats.

00:28:14

Wow. So when I passed by a hill cart in New York I see flies and that kind of makes me squeamish. So I haven’t tried it yet. Is that a concern.

00:28:25

For six bucks. Nope. Spoken like a true college student.

00:28:30

Yeah. It’s so much food. It’s like a good amount of money huh. And it tastes so good. I’m probably in get some later today.

00:28:41

That’s funny. So what are your future plans. You’re gonna graduate from NYU and do you want to stay in California permanently or do you think you would ever want to go back to Pakistan to live.

00:28:55

I think I’d want to make a little bit of money. Figure out how stuff works over here and try not to get out of there. Startup culture is just about to take off over there and I think I’d like to give it a shot.

00:29:11

Yeah OK well good for you. Good for you. I’ve been absolutely amazed. I have followed things on social media and the outpouring of love that your sister was given by the world. I mean how did that make you feel.

00:29:26

Was that just absolutely wonderful to see that Joe was really nice to see a real in reaching out offering their support and love and prayers. I think for everyone it was overall pretty positive to have all of these people just expressing all their love and support to you.

00:29:49

Yeah that’s wonderful. Now are you. Are you closer to your siblings now or are you just kind of doing your thing in New York and living your life.

00:29:58

I think I’m definitely closer to my brothers aren’t I. We lived in the same house for ever. Muhammad was off to college you lived in Australia and moved to L.A. last year. I’ve never lived with him but now that he has like a little bit of free time and we spend like a summer together in Buxton I think we’re in I in our closeness of relationship.

00:30:28

Good. Good. Well look I really appreciate you taking out time on a Saturday morning to talk to me because I know you’ve probably got a million and one things that you’d rather be doing hanging out with friends. So yeah. Thank you so much for the conversation and I really think that you know people listening are going to love your story because people are interested and other people’s experiences and I think you have a lot of really good insight and experiences and just 19 years which is pretty amazing to me. So I wish you the very best.

00:31:04

Thank you. It was really really good speaking to you. I hope to hear from you soon through Adam.

00:31:10

Oh definitely definitely.

00:31:12

And maybe I’ll see you the next time we come up there. Yeah for sure. OK. We’ll take care and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

00:31:29

If you like this podcast so far. Please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it. Go on be awesome and leave a rating and a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S. Parbh oo. That’s P A R B H O O. Thanks for listening to Southern life. Indian wife.

The post 7000 miles from home with NYU sophomore Amin Ali appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

An author’s journey often begins with a simple love of reading and many of us embrace that love by spending some quality time with local book sellers. My life was forever changed after taking a creative writing class in Woodstock, GA at the wonderfully cozy FoxTale Book Shoppe; that one class led me down the path to finally completing my first novel The Unexpected Daughter.

There are a plethora of reasons why independent book stores are important for communities across the country. In-store readings, writing workshops, book clubs, and other offerings help bring like-minded readers together. Today on Southern Life, Indian Wife I’m joined by FoxTale co-owner Karen Schwettman.

Karen tells me how books have always been her lifeline (2:19), the incredible origin story of FoxTale Book Shoppe (3:31), how the store has become a stimulating environment for would-be writers (8:22), how she has enjoyed connecting with me early on in my writing journey (10:51), she discusses her incredible and sometimes difficult experience being an independent bookseller (12:11), how their incredible customers got FoxTale through the economic downturn (15:13), why it’s so important to buy books from local independent booksellers (22:51), how Amazon is creating an uneven playing field (27:54), how she’s working to build a community of readers at FoxTale (31:37), and how you can find an amazing local independent bookstore in your area (34:05).

If you’re ever in Woodstock, GA don’t forget to check out FoxTale Book Shoppe and to find out more about their upcoming book club events, make sure to connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram!

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts  and TuneIn.

Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagramand Twitter! And…email me at sherylparbhoo@gmail.com to order a signed copy of my book The Unexpected Daughter.

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid and I am fiercely proud of both. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Prabhoo and this is Southern Life Indian Wife. Right. Welcome back to Southern life. Indian wife today I have a super fun guest. I’ve got Karen Schwettman.

00:00:28

She is co-owner of a local indie bookstore near me Fox Tale Book Shoppe in Woodstock and I’ve got her here to talk to me about books and business and publishing and all the ups and downs of talking to authors and crazy people and the crazy business. So welcome Karen Hi Sheryl. It’s great to be here. Thank you so much. So let’s talk a little bit about who you are. I know you’ve got this super cool Southern accent but I don’t really know where you come from. Oh well I was born in Rome Georgia OK and I lived there most of my life until my husband got a job in Salt Lake City.

00:01:12

Well we went to Utah for five years. Culture shock it was quite a shock when I got back home I wanted to kiss the ground. I bet you did kiss that red Georgia clay. And we have trees here and that’s very important. Yes. So after that. Well when I was in Utah I started working for an interior design studio I worked for the House revival. I worked for Sherwin Williams. And when I came back to Georgia opened my own business interior design his house. And I did that for a few years. And then when the kids grew up and left home and I started having grand children then it was time to think about doing something now. OK. So does the book store the bookstore. OK. So you must have been a reader before you decided to open up a bookstore. Oh yes. I’ve always been a reader have always been passionate about books. Books have been my lifeline my entire life is my go to my blanket it’s my safety net.

00:02:26

Yeah you’ve told me once or twice how many books you can read in a few weeks so you just gotta tell the listeners. This blows me away when you go on vacation.

00:02:36

How many books are you going to read about 14 or 15 and maybe a little more maybe a little less holy cow. But that is how I like to read. I like to have binge reading session. OK. If I’m off during the week I like to spend the whole day reading. I like spend all day on Sunday reading and then of course my vacation binges.

00:03:00

Wow. I feel like I have readers ADD. I can’t sit down and do that and I feel like for me it’s kind of the technology screen age that we’re all in. Like me I’ll sit down to read a book and then my husband puts on Netflix and he’s watching some cool show about Vikings and it just distracts me. So I think you’re doing the community and the world a huge service by opening an independent bookstore. How did you just decide. Did you just decide one day.

00:03:31

Oh why don’t I open a bookstore? Almost. Really. Yes I went out to visit a friend who was working in Denver. OK. And while I was there we went to the greatest bookstore ever called the Tattered Cover OK. And it had everything I wanted in a bookstore. The wooden creaky floors stairs lots and lots of books lots of people to talk about books with. And I thought I want to open a bookstore. And my friend said Well why don’t you. Yeah. What’s stopping you. And then I went down. Yeah. And so while we were there we had this idea in mind. And one night we went up to Red Rocks Amphitheatre was right at dusk and we got out the car and there was a fox sitting right in the parking lot about two feet away from me. I looked at her. She looked at me. She got tired of it walked away. And so we’re thinking oh my gosh what a fabulous thing to happen I know it means something what does it mean.

00:04:47

I don’t know

00:04:49

But when I got back I met a friend for lunch and she said Oh I’ve been looking up animal totems and I found the fox. So this is what it means to see a fox. And so she started writing me all the energy and the power that this particular animal brings and then she said Fox tail is the symbol of feminine creative energy. No way way And legend has it when the female fox turns 50 that she becomes human. Well I just turned 50. You know there was a fox. And so we decided that was going to be the name of our store FoxTale. And that’s where the name came from. Yeah. I always wondered about that I thought it was super cute. But I never knew where it came from. That’s the story behind it. And then I had a few other friends that went into the business with me. Since then we’ve the three of us have gone our separate ways. OK. And so now it’s only me in the store. Oh I didn’t know that. Yes. Jack ie recently retired. OK. So things are a little bit different.

00:06:09

I’m writing a new chapter of my life it seems. But that’s OK. New chapters are good. Yes. Yeah. Hard I’m sure. Change is hard but it’s always hard but it’s exciting too. Yeah. That’s great. Well I’m so glad that you’re you’re keeping it going because when you all opened how many years has it been. It is 12 years. Really. Oh man I feel old because I was thinking it was maybe six or seven years ago. It goes by fast. Man Yes. So when y’all opened the doors I remember going in there and thinking wow we finally have a bookstore here in you know the boonies of Woodstock. We were still kind of the boonies back then. Yeah it was. Yeah. And acquired it in Downtown Downtown was just beginning. Yeah. To build and pick. Yeah. And there would be times when I would take either just myself or take my little ones because back then I had little ones to barnes and noble and just walking around and looking at the beautiful covers it was heavenly. And I was so happy to see that y’all we’re gonna be close and that didn’t have to do that. And it’s a small you know warm inviting environment not like a Barnes and Noble which you know they have pretty book covers but that’s about it you know.

00:07:23

But that was part of what I wanted with my background as an interior designer. To me the most important part of design is how your space feels it can look great. It can be decorated beautifully but unless it feels welcoming and cozy then I feel like I’ve missed it. So that was my goal when I decorated the store.

00:07:49

You did a fantastic job. Thank you. I love walking in there even if I’m not in the mood to buy a book which is rare. Yeah. It just feels good to go in there. Thank you. And I also got to know you and you know other people at the store when I took a creative writing workshop that year in the workshop. Yeah. And that’s also another thing. Not only do you go in there and feel like you want to read every single beautiful book on the shelves but you want to write too. So that environment really stimulated that for me and I’m sure lots of people.

00:08:23

I’m glad we actually started out as writers. We met in a creative writing class. My partners OK and that’s how we got to know each other so well because we had been in class together for several years and our goal in the beginning was that we would teach classes or we would take classes. Little did we know how much time running a bookstore actually takes a lot of people think oh be so much fun to sit in here and read all day. I can assure you in 12 years I’ve never read a book in the store because there’s not that opportunity right. But we did find some great resources to teach classes for us and just being there and being a part of that helped it fulfill the part of me that wanted to write seeing other people do that and seeing what they produced. I still write from time to time mostly now just journaling or logging information in case I want to write something later on.

00:09:38

That’s a great idea. You have to keep those things close because I’m sure there’s going to be a time when you’re ready and you’re going to sit down and you’re just going to pound out that book. Well we’ll see. You will. Well I can’t imagine not being surrounded by all of that your whole day. The beauty of it. So it’s exciting. Yeah. You’ve got to do it. It’s exciting. Well your store I mean is truly responsible for me getting my novel The Unexpected daughter out. One hundred percent because I was I had a bunch of kids at home. I was losing my mind had to write you know my story. I do. And I took a couple of classes at Kennesaw State and creative writing and just didn’t really connect with people. And then I saw online that you all had a creative writing workshop with Wayne s Smith who was doing it. I said Okay I’m just gonna get away on a Saturday. My husband can deal with the kids. Yes. And did the workshop met him. Got him to help me get through that book and did my book launch there. So yeah I mean I’m grateful that all are there. Nobody else is and I’m sure they are but at least you helped me. Well I love being in on the early part of your work.

00:10:51

As soon as I met you and heard your story I just I want it more. Of course you did. No. But for some reason I’ve always had a fascination with India. Anything Indian. And here you are married to an Indian. And your stories or just very compelling. Your book is an easy sale. You earned the right to be on the favorite shelf. It’s well done it’s funny and poignant. So I can’t say enough good about it and I’m looking forward to your next book.

00:11:29

Thank you and thank you for that honor of having it on the bookshelf because I thought no one is ever going to read my book to begin with. So to have it on a bookshelf like that that was that made my my life my whole year. So that was wonderful. Thank you. So you’ve gotten to know people through the writing classes and you get authors in there all the time so you know me I’m I’m a new author. I’m learning the business as I go which is you know the school of hard knocks. Really it’s tough.

00:11:59

So how does it work being an owner of an independent bookstore because you have to deal with authors publishers publicists I mean crazy amount of different people from different angles I imagine. So how does the whole business work.

00:12:17

Well when we started we knew nothing about bookselling. Well we only know we love books and writing. So we learn the hard way just like you said you’re doing. And at first it seemed it was overwhelming. It seems futile to try to get big authors. How do we do this. Because the publishers want you to be able to produce sales of course. And until you have been in business long enough to earn those authors. Yet at the same time you know it’s like how do we get more authors if you don’t give us authors. Right. Right. Catch 22. That was a frustrating the first couple of years were frustrating but we looked for different ways. We just had to get creative of how we could attract authors and how we could bring them into the store. So at first we did a lot of local authors. Luckily Terry Kay was local and he agreed to come out and he was our first big book signing. Also I’ll never forget it. It was in October. It was the most beautiful autumn that we’d had in some time. And I just remembered driving up five seventy five to go to work and I was so happy. I mean what could be better. The sun was out. The leaves were orange and yellow. And Terry Kay was in my store signing and it was a successful event. And I think Terry really helped kick start us. He would use us for offside. That’s when he you know read at different places. He would ask us to be the book seller and because he’s been around Southern authors for a long time. He introduced us to a lot of Southern authors so that’s fabulous. That’s how we really got started. And then I’d say for the first five years we got more and more authors until after five years. Some of the big publishers were ready to take a chance on us.

00:14:37

Wow. So five years of hard work kind of scraping your way up at all. But that’s that’s enlightening because I had no idea as somebody that just sat down to write a book just because I was going to write a book how hard the business is on all sides.

00:14:55

It is. And I think the business has progressively gotten harder just because of the age that we live in. We really saw a drop in the early years I’d say about the second year we were there the economy you know tanked. Yeah. If we hadn’t started the bookstore when we did we wouldn’t have been able to because they would have been too discouraging. Right. But you know our customers kept us going and that’s for that stretch of time we lost eleven businesses in downtown Woodstock from 2007 to 2010. Wow. We saw a lot of businesses that had been well established not be able to make it. And then you know the economy turn and businesses started flocking to downtown Woodstock. Yes. But what got us through was our faithful customer base that it was the community that you know they took a chance on us and we they stayed with us and supported us and we hopefully we gave them what they wanted to. Oh I’m sure you did.

00:16:15

And you know I had no idea how faithful customers would be to a small bookstore like that because when y’all opened I didn’t have a heck of a lot of time. You know I wasn’t able to be involved in things but you know once I wrote this book and I got involved with the store and saw how many people come to these events and you do have these faithful loyal people that are there at every event we do. And I love it and it gives me hope that there are still readers in the world. Oh yes there’s a lot of suffering. Yes but sometimes I feel like wow you know I’m the only person in my little circle that nags to read. I remember talking to an old neighbor one time who I told her that I was a writer and I told her what my book was about that it’s about an intercultural family saga. And she looked at me and she said Oh you write the smart stuff I like to read you know Time magazine Time magazine People magazine you know I like to read the stuff that I don’t have to think about. And I was like Oh you’re a reading teacher too. Oh no I won’t name or name but I just feel like so many people have started watching Netflix and given it up. So it’s nice to know that there are still war people that are still going to keep going. There are.

00:17:35

I think the biggest area that I see that is falling behind in reading are middle grades when we opened middle grades were our biggest sellers really kids were in there all the time. Rick Riordan books. Yes. Yes. So many of those series they followed those and they were in there during the summer. We used to have kids that come up there and sit on the back row of the bookcases in the floor and read for hours. Wow. And their moms would call. Have you seen. So I guess they’re back here reading OK just checking. That’s my dream for my child to do. Know I will never have that. And it was great but see little of of interest in books now and I think it’s because they’re so used to everything instant. Yes. You know they’re gratified immediately a book isn’t fast enough for them it’s not like a video game or them talking to somebody on social media. Right. And it is almost punishment for them to have to read and that makes me very sad.

00:18:55

Me too. Like we’re not OK. So I have a 12 year old he’s in seventh grade and I remember back when I was in seventh grade I was reading everything I could get my hands on. And a lot of the time it was my mom’s book. Yes. She probably doesn’t know this but I read The Thorn Birds when I was in the seventh grade and Shogun and some Stephen King books. I loved it. I did not get it was it was my guilty little pleasure. I can’t imagine my 12 year old voluntarily reading a book. And it’s because of that darn fortnight and all those games and he really does treat it like it’s punishment. When I make him I have to make him read a book because I say look your brain is rotting. You need to exercise those muscles. But he just doesn’t see it because it’s you’re right it’s not that immediate gratification. Well I have six granddaughters so six granddaughters. Yes no boys. Oh so girl power. Yeah heck yeah. But they don’t like to read. It breaks my heart like I have a book store and you don’t like to read? Not a one of them likes to read.

00:20:07

Zoe Monet who is nine now. She could read very well before she started kindergarten. She’s always been a book lover. So she is my main one good. And we started a book of fairy tales when she was seven. And every day she would come over and we’d read a fairy tale. And then we would mark it off our list. Then they moved to Michigan. And I kept the book of fairy tales. So when I went up at Easter to see her and it had been two years since I’d seen her and I pulled out that fairy tale book she started crying. She was so happy to see that. And we sat down and we read as many stories as we could give in that visit and we just came back from a week from there and I took the book again and she read me a story every night before we went to bed all so she is my biggest reader. I really want you know I’m excited for the time where she could read things like little women and the Secret Garden.

00:21:17

And Anne of Green Gables and all those that I loved when I was growing up. Yes. And hopefully she won’t get distracted by all the screen stuff and all that. Well they’re always out there. We’ll hope but her dad is a software producer for video games so big.

00:21:39

I’m not going to hold out too much right.

00:21:42

Yeah. My family is not readers either my own husband has not even read my book. Are you serious serious. Now granted when I was writing it I did read a lot of chapters too and a lot of those chapters were deleted and changed and so he doesn’t even know the story. Oh I think you should sit down and read to him every night. I should but then he’ll probably punish me by sitting me down and reading me dental journal and all OK OK.

00:22:08

So I don’t know. Maybe not maybe not. Yeah.

00:22:13

So this bookstore is just a like an oasis of art. I think for us the just the written word people can go there and experience it but independent bookstores are having a really hard time surviving right now. And I don’t think that everybody out there understands that it’s important to buy locally and not from Amazon and to buy new from the author from the bookstore just because it saves you money doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s good. So let’s talk about that.

00:22:52

A lot of people ask me how can you compete with Amazon. We can’t we cannot compete with Amazon and that’s what I always tell them. However we can offer things that Amazon does not. Yeah Amazon offers quick delivery and a discounted price. When you come in our store whoever is there is going to walk out from behind the counter and greet you and ask you what you’re reading. Yes. Talk about what we’re reading. And we like to put the right book in the right person’s hands. Yes. You’re not going to get that at Amazon. Definitely not. You won’t get an author of that. You won’t meet the author through Amazon like you will in an indie bookstore. I had a phone call one day last week and it was a young man who was looking for a gift book for his girlfriend. He told me what he wanted and I told him oh about three or four different books that were on my shelf that I would recommend. And then when he got through he said you know there is no way I could have even paid for that kind of information if I gone on Amazon to look for it. So not only do I want to buy this book from you he gave me a list of other books to buy. Wow. It was I mean what a great guy. There was so much joy in just being able to find him what he needed and the top books with somebody. Yes. That’s what we do best. That’s what we love. Yeah. So we do have some things that so that you’re not forced to use the A word or the K word. But we don’t have a Kindle what we have is Kobo and there are e-books and Kobo is in a rater designed in Germany especially for indie bookstores. OK. So we do have that available in the store available. We have audio books through libros OK li bro how should say it libro ah OK. And it if you sign up for li bro and leave audible your first three books are free. Wow so that’s a really great deal. That is an audible is not cheap so it’s not like you know you’re getting a great deal right. With audible well you probably know but a lot of people may not know that audible is owned by Amazon good reads is owned by Amazon. So when good reads when people are really pushing a book it’s Amazon behind that book. Yes but not necessarily the readers that you know we’re looking for great recommendations from readers. But what we’re getting is really just filtered down from Amazon in a different way. Right. So what I think about because so many people come in through the course of a day I can’t tell you how many people will tell me on the phone or in the store. Well I could get this cheaper on Amazon they tell you that to your face to my face or they will wait until I’ve explained some great books and go Oh thanks I’m gonna go order it on Amazon. Yeah. And then they’re looking at probably as I walk out as a whole remember and Peter Pan where they talking about fairies and somebody said I don’t believe in fairies. And Peter says what you don’t believe in fairies every time somebody says they don’t believe in fairies a fairy dies. That’s how I feel about Amazon every time you order a book from Amazon. It helps an indie bookstore die a little more because after a while if it continues the way it is now we won’t be able to compete there will only be one store and that will be Amazon right.

00:27:08

And I mean it not only kills indie bookstores but it kills authors too. Oh yes. I mean you know I think every author’s book has to be on Amazon my book is on Amazon of course and I looked on there the other day and you know how on Amazon you’ve got it from direct from the publisher.

00:27:27

Then also you have the used price as well. There were people that were selling like new copies of my book for a dollar or two cheaper than the brand new price. And so Amazon put it above my link to click to buy it new ad. So people are thinking that they’re buying it new and it’s going to a used bookstore. No. I mean that totally screws authors. It does.

00:27:52

It’s so wrong the playing field is so uneven. Publishers give Amazon huge discounts. No not the same discounts that we get. OK. And they are able to because of the volume of sales that they have. They can also have loss leaders they can afford to give 50 percent off a best seller because most of their other books are not that much off. So that is another consideration when you’re thinking about Amazon. Definitely I heard some rather disturbing news this week in a sales rep told me that an Amazon store is going to be going in right across the street from Parnassus which is in Nashville. Yes hatchets bookstore and of all places it could be just the gall they would choose that site to put their store. They’re poaching clientele. They take money out of our communities instead of keeping it here. A lot of things aren’t taxed Amazon’s not taxed the way that we are both as a consumer and as a small business. You know not just with bookstores but with everything Amazon is just killing us in so many ways. Another way we are part of the community we coordinate school visits with middle grade or young adult or children’s authors. OK. We have a school visit this week with an author. And as you know we do lots of events in the store. We’re often asked by authors to go to offsite locations if they’re going to go speak at a library or out of town. They may ask us to be the bookseller and we go in and take the books and sell books. There are a lot of books selling is loading boxes and unpacking them and packing them. And yes you’ve got to be very strong. So you’re going to haul a lot of boxes. We do that and we try to give books when we can wait to choose a charity every year to give back. We either buy books for a classroom or give books to maybe a shelter. We’ve given books to the jails before because we do get a lot of pre publication copies. And if it’s something that we’ve all read or we don’t want to read then we can just box it up and send it out to somebody that does that because they’re full publishers will often send us boxes of 30 40 books. And when you’ve got 10 publishers that’s a lot of reading.

00:31:02

That is a lot of reading. And so you’re you’re spreading it to people that wouldn’t be able to afford to come into your store and even pay it 50 percent off. You know if you did have the Amazon sales. Yes. Yeah. Wow. That’s fantastic because I think the world needs more of that personal connection and people wanting to share literature are all the good stuff in life with other people instead of just getting on the computer and getting it. We’ve seen so many friendships formed in the store.

00:31:38

You know you’ve probably been a part of it at one time or another where maybe you’re in the store and we’re talking books and somebody else. So wander in and they’ll hear something and come over and conversations starts and it’s just I think especially for women. I think it’s a really good place to have connections and meet up with other people who have similar interests too who have the very same issues as we do. And it’s a place to come and be and not feel judged or that you’ve got to hurry. It’s very very relaxed and Fox Tale is you know we’re passionate about people and we’re passionate about books. Yes. And the two go together. You can’t just sell a book you’ve got to be really excited about the book. And if you’re getting the right book to the right person I know I said that before. Yeah but getting the book that you need in your hand is very important.

00:32:46

Yes. Yes it is. You know I came to the Harper Collins event last week and I had never been to one of those. It was fun. What do you call it a preview event for the coming season. It was amazing because I loved hearing the descriptions of all of these new books and there are these authors out there that I know have written a million books and I hadn’t heard of them yet but I loved hearing the descriptions and I thought Yeah I’m going to start reading this author and I did yeah I went and got Louise Eldritch his book for a great rate. Great read. Howard for a yes. And I love it. And had I not been at that event I would have been able to find that on Amazon and you know search you know authors that I love writing about powerful family events. You can’t get that from Amazon. Now you can know. You can get it at Fox Yale. And so before we go do you have a message for people out there who love to read and where is the best way to find an indie bookstore.

00:33:51

So it’s a. Of course you know people that live in Woodstock Georgia. They’re gonna come to Fox Tale Fox Tale is famous. It’s wonderful. But what if you live somewhere that doesn’t have an indie bookstore close by. Can you order online you can stores order online at most any bookstore in these indie bookstores.

00:34:13

We have our own best seller lists every month. OK. So use your computer for something good and go into Google and just type in in the next Indie Next you know. Next it will take you to a site where there’s book reviews. There’s the best seller list. There’s where you can find the links to both Kobo and Libro for the audio and for the digital books. It will also list all the indie bookstores around the country. Wonderful. And all of those are available for you to use. OK.

00:34:55

So there’s really no excuse not to support the independent bookstores because it’s all right there it is. Yeah. OK. So everybody listening. Support your independent bookstores please. Yes. Because if we don’t they’re going to go away in good books are going to go away. We need you. Yes we definitely do. Well thank you so much for coming in to tell us your story . Yes. Thank you and I wish Fox tale the best in your future endeavors and you running it on your own and I hope you don’t get too tired from running it and never. I think I’m too tired when I go in every day. It’s just energizing that’s in the air. That’s wonderful. And I’m looking forward to your new book and I hope we launch it at FoxTale too. Well once it’s finally done yes you definitely will so maybe you can just call me and like you know light a fire under me once a week or so and get that book so I can do that.

00:35:50

OK. Thank you. All right thanks so much for being here. Thank you.

00:36:03

If you like this podcast so far please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it go on the awesome and leave a rating and a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S… Par bhoo. That’s p a r b h o o. Thanks for listening to Southern life. Indian wife.

The post The importance of independent booksellers with FoxTale Book Shoppe’s Karen Schwettman [podcast] appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

An author’s journey often begins with a simple love of reading and many of us embrace that love by spending some quality time with local book sellers. My life was forever changed after taking a creative writing class in Woodstock, GA at the wonderfully cozy FoxTale Book Shoppe; that one class led me down the path to finally completing my first novel The Unexpected Daughter.

There are a plethora of reasons why independent book stores are important for communities across the country. In-store readings, writing workshops, book clubs, and other offerings help bring like-minded readers together. Today on Southern Life, Indian Wife I’m joined by FoxTale co-owner Karen Schwettman.

Karen tells me how books have always been her lifeline (2:19), the incredible origin story of FoxTale Book Shoppe (3:31), how the store has become a stimulating environment for would-be writers (8:22), how she has enjoyed connecting with me early on in my writing journey (10:51), she discusses her incredible and sometimes difficult experience being an independent bookseller (12:11), how their incredible customers got FoxTale through the economic downturn (15:13), why it’s so important to buy books from local independent booksellers (22:51), how Amazon is creating an uneven playing field (27:54), how she’s working to build a community of readers at FoxTale (31:37), and how you can find an amazing local independent bookstore in your area (34:05).

If you’re ever in Woodstock, GA don’t forget to check out FoxTale Book Shoppe and to find out more about their upcoming book club events, make sure to connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram!

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts  and TuneIn.

Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagramand Twitter! And…email me at sherylparbhoo@gmail.com to order a signed copy of my book The Unexpected Daughter.

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid and I am fiercely proud of both. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Prabhoo and this is Southern Life Indian Wife. Right. Welcome back to Southern life. Indian wife today I have a super fun guest. I’ve got Karen Schwettman.

00:00:28

She is co-owner of a local indie bookstore near me Fox Tale Book Shoppe in Woodstock and I’ve got her here to talk to me about books and business and publishing and all the ups and downs of talking to authors and crazy people and the crazy business. So welcome Karen Hi Sheryl. It’s great to be here. Thank you so much. So let’s talk a little bit about who you are. I know you’ve got this super cool Southern accent but I don’t really know where you come from. Oh well I was born in Rome Georgia OK and I lived there most of my life until my husband got a job in Salt Lake City.

00:01:12

Well we went to Utah for five years. Culture shock it was quite a shock when I got back home I wanted to kiss the ground. I bet you did kiss that red Georgia clay. And we have trees here and that’s very important. Yes. So after that. Well when I was in Utah I started working for an interior design studio I worked for the House revival. I worked for Sherwin Williams. And when I came back to Georgia opened my own business interior design his house. And I did that for a few years. And then when the kids grew up and left home and I started having grand children then it was time to think about doing something now. OK. So does the book store the bookstore. OK. So you must have been a reader before you decided to open up a bookstore. Oh yes. I’ve always been a reader have always been passionate about books. Books have been my lifeline my entire life is my go to my blanket it’s my safety net.

00:02:26

Yeah you’ve told me once or twice how many books you can read in a few weeks so you just gotta tell the listeners. This blows me away when you go on vacation.

00:02:36

How many books are you going to read about 14 or 15 and maybe a little more maybe a little less holy cow. But that is how I like to read. I like to have binge reading session. OK. If I’m off during the week I like to spend the whole day reading. I like spend all day on Sunday reading and then of course my vacation binges.

00:03:00

Wow. I feel like I have readers ADD. I can’t sit down and do that and I feel like for me it’s kind of the technology screen age that we’re all in. Like me I’ll sit down to read a book and then my husband puts on Netflix and he’s watching some cool show about Vikings and it just distracts me. So I think you’re doing the community and the world a huge service by opening an independent bookstore. How did you just decide. Did you just decide one day.

00:03:31

Oh why don’t I open a bookstore? Almost. Really. Yes I went out to visit a friend who was working in Denver. OK. And while I was there we went to the greatest bookstore ever called the Tattered Cover OK. And it had everything I wanted in a bookstore. The wooden creaky floors stairs lots and lots of books lots of people to talk about books with. And I thought I want to open a bookstore. And my friend said Well why don’t you. Yeah. What’s stopping you. And then I went down. Yeah. And so while we were there we had this idea in mind. And one night we went up to Red Rocks Amphitheatre was right at dusk and we got out the car and there was a fox sitting right in the parking lot about two feet away from me. I looked at her. She looked at me. She got tired of it walked away. And so we’re thinking oh my gosh what a fabulous thing to happen I know it means something what does it mean.

00:04:47

I don’t know

00:04:49

But when I got back I met a friend for lunch and she said Oh I’ve been looking up animal totems and I found the fox. So this is what it means to see a fox. And so she started writing me all the energy and the power that this particular animal brings and then she said Fox tail is the symbol of feminine creative energy. No way way And legend has it when the female fox turns 50 that she becomes human. Well I just turned 50. You know there was a fox. And so we decided that was going to be the name of our store FoxTale. And that’s where the name came from. Yeah. I always wondered about that I thought it was super cute. But I never knew where it came from. That’s the story behind it. And then I had a few other friends that went into the business with me. Since then we’ve the three of us have gone our separate ways. OK. And so now it’s only me in the store. Oh I didn’t know that. Yes. Jack ie recently retired. OK. So things are a little bit different.

00:06:09

I’m writing a new chapter of my life it seems. But that’s OK. New chapters are good. Yes. Yeah. Hard I’m sure. Change is hard but it’s always hard but it’s exciting too. Yeah. That’s great. Well I’m so glad that you’re you’re keeping it going because when you all opened how many years has it been. It is 12 years. Really. Oh man I feel old because I was thinking it was maybe six or seven years ago. It goes by fast. Man Yes. So when y’all opened the doors I remember going in there and thinking wow we finally have a bookstore here in you know the boonies of Woodstock. We were still kind of the boonies back then. Yeah it was. Yeah. And acquired it in Downtown Downtown was just beginning. Yeah. To build and pick. Yeah. And there would be times when I would take either just myself or take my little ones because back then I had little ones to barnes and noble and just walking around and looking at the beautiful covers it was heavenly. And I was so happy to see that y’all we’re gonna be close and that didn’t have to do that. And it’s a small you know warm inviting environment not like a Barnes and Noble which you know they have pretty book covers but that’s about it you know.

00:07:23

But that was part of what I wanted with my background as an interior designer. To me the most important part of design is how your space feels it can look great. It can be decorated beautifully but unless it feels welcoming and cozy then I feel like I’ve missed it. So that was my goal when I decorated the store.

00:07:49

You did a fantastic job. Thank you. I love walking in there even if I’m not in the mood to buy a book which is rare. Yeah. It just feels good to go in there. Thank you. And I also got to know you and you know other people at the store when I took a creative writing workshop that year in the workshop. Yeah. And that’s also another thing. Not only do you go in there and feel like you want to read every single beautiful book on the shelves but you want to write too. So that environment really stimulated that for me and I’m sure lots of people.

00:08:23

I’m glad we actually started out as writers. We met in a creative writing class. My partners OK and that’s how we got to know each other so well because we had been in class together for several years and our goal in the beginning was that we would teach classes or we would take classes. Little did we know how much time running a bookstore actually takes a lot of people think oh be so much fun to sit in here and read all day. I can assure you in 12 years I’ve never read a book in the store because there’s not that opportunity right. But we did find some great resources to teach classes for us and just being there and being a part of that helped it fulfill the part of me that wanted to write seeing other people do that and seeing what they produced. I still write from time to time mostly now just journaling or logging information in case I want to write something later on.

00:09:38

That’s a great idea. You have to keep those things close because I’m sure there’s going to be a time when you’re ready and you’re going to sit down and you’re just going to pound out that book. Well we’ll see. You will. Well I can’t imagine not being surrounded by all of that your whole day. The beauty of it. So it’s exciting. Yeah. You’ve got to do it. It’s exciting. Well your store I mean is truly responsible for me getting my novel The Unexpected daughter out. One hundred percent because I was I had a bunch of kids at home. I was losing my mind had to write you know my story. I do. And I took a couple of classes at Kennesaw State and creative writing and just didn’t really connect with people. And then I saw online that you all had a creative writing workshop with Wayne s Smith who was doing it. I said Okay I’m just gonna get away on a Saturday. My husband can deal with the kids. Yes. And did the workshop met him. Got him to help me get through that book and did my book launch there. So yeah I mean I’m grateful that all are there. Nobody else is and I’m sure they are but at least you helped me. Well I love being in on the early part of your work.

00:10:51

As soon as I met you and heard your story I just I want it more. Of course you did. No. But for some reason I’ve always had a fascination with India. Anything Indian. And here you are married to an Indian. And your stories or just very compelling. Your book is an easy sale. You earned the right to be on the favorite shelf. It’s well done it’s funny and poignant. So I can’t say enough good about it and I’m looking forward to your next book.

00:11:29

Thank you and thank you for that honor of having it on the bookshelf because I thought no one is ever going to read my book to begin with. So to have it on a bookshelf like that that was that made my my life my whole year. So that was wonderful. Thank you. So you’ve gotten to know people through the writing classes and you get authors in there all the time so you know me I’m I’m a new author. I’m learning the business as I go which is you know the school of hard knocks. Really it’s tough.

00:11:59

So how does it work being an owner of an independent bookstore because you have to deal with authors publishers publicists I mean crazy amount of different people from different angles I imagine. So how does the whole business work.

00:12:17

Well when we started we knew nothing about bookselling. Well we only know we love books and writing. So we learn the hard way just like you said you’re doing. And at first it seemed it was overwhelming. It seems futile to try to get big authors. How do we do this. Because the publishers want you to be able to produce sales of course. And until you have been in business long enough to earn those authors. Yet at the same time you know it’s like how do we get more authors if you don’t give us authors. Right. Right. Catch 22. That was a frustrating the first couple of years were frustrating but we looked for different ways. We just had to get creative of how we could attract authors and how we could bring them into the store. So at first we did a lot of local authors. Luckily Terry Kay was local and he agreed to come out and he was our first big book signing. Also I’ll never forget it. It was in October. It was the most beautiful autumn that we’d had in some time. And I just remembered driving up five seventy five to go to work and I was so happy. I mean what could be better. The sun was out. The leaves were orange and yellow. And Terry Kay was in my store signing and it was a successful event. And I think Terry really helped kick start us. He would use us for offside. That’s when he you know read at different places. He would ask us to be the book seller and because he’s been around Southern authors for a long time. He introduced us to a lot of Southern authors so that’s fabulous. That’s how we really got started. And then I’d say for the first five years we got more and more authors until after five years. Some of the big publishers were ready to take a chance on us.

00:14:37

Wow. So five years of hard work kind of scraping your way up at all. But that’s that’s enlightening because I had no idea as somebody that just sat down to write a book just because I was going to write a book how hard the business is on all sides.

00:14:55

It is. And I think the business has progressively gotten harder just because of the age that we live in. We really saw a drop in the early years I’d say about the second year we were there the economy you know tanked. Yeah. If we hadn’t started the bookstore when we did we wouldn’t have been able to because they would have been too discouraging. Right. But you know our customers kept us going and that’s for that stretch of time we lost eleven businesses in downtown Woodstock from 2007 to 2010. Wow. We saw a lot of businesses that had been well established not be able to make it. And then you know the economy turn and businesses started flocking to downtown Woodstock. Yes. But what got us through was our faithful customer base that it was the community that you know they took a chance on us and we they stayed with us and supported us and we hopefully we gave them what they wanted to. Oh I’m sure you did.

00:16:15

And you know I had no idea how faithful customers would be to a small bookstore like that because when y’all opened I didn’t have a heck of a lot of time. You know I wasn’t able to be involved in things but you know once I wrote this book and I got involved with the store and saw how many people come to these events and you do have these faithful loyal people that are there at every event we do. And I love it and it gives me hope that there are still readers in the world. Oh yes there’s a lot of suffering. Yes but sometimes I feel like wow you know I’m the only person in my little circle that nags to read. I remember talking to an old neighbor one time who I told her that I was a writer and I told her what my book was about that it’s about an intercultural family saga. And she looked at me and she said Oh you write the smart stuff I like to read you know Time magazine Time magazine People magazine you know I like to read the stuff that I don’t have to think about. And I was like Oh you’re a reading teacher too. Oh no I won’t name or name but I just feel like so many people have started watching Netflix and given it up. So it’s nice to know that there are still war people that are still going to keep going. There are.

00:17:35

I think the biggest area that I see that is falling behind in reading are middle grades when we opened middle grades were our biggest sellers really kids were in there all the time. Rick Riordan books. Yes. Yes. So many of those series they followed those and they were in there during the summer. We used to have kids that come up there and sit on the back row of the bookcases in the floor and read for hours. Wow. And their moms would call. Have you seen. So I guess they’re back here reading OK just checking. That’s my dream for my child to do. Know I will never have that. And it was great but see little of of interest in books now and I think it’s because they’re so used to everything instant. Yes. You know they’re gratified immediately a book isn’t fast enough for them it’s not like a video game or them talking to somebody on social media. Right. And it is almost punishment for them to have to read and that makes me very sad.

00:18:55

Me too. Like we’re not OK. So I have a 12 year old he’s in seventh grade and I remember back when I was in seventh grade I was reading everything I could get my hands on. And a lot of the time it was my mom’s book. Yes. She probably doesn’t know this but I read The Thorn Birds when I was in the seventh grade and Shogun and some Stephen King books. I loved it. I did not get it was it was my guilty little pleasure. I can’t imagine my 12 year old voluntarily reading a book. And it’s because of that darn fortnight and all those games and he really does treat it like it’s punishment. When I make him I have to make him read a book because I say look your brain is rotting. You need to exercise those muscles. But he just doesn’t see it because it’s you’re right it’s not that immediate gratification. Well I have six granddaughters so six granddaughters. Yes no boys. Oh so girl power. Yeah heck yeah. But they don’t like to read. It breaks my heart like I have a book store and you don’t like to read? Not a one of them likes to read.

00:20:07

Zoe Monet who is nine now. She could read very well before she started kindergarten. She’s always been a book lover. So she is my main one good. And we started a book of fairy tales when she was seven. And every day she would come over and we’d read a fairy tale. And then we would mark it off our list. Then they moved to Michigan. And I kept the book of fairy tales. So when I went up at Easter to see her and it had been two years since I’d seen her and I pulled out that fairy tale book she started crying. She was so happy to see that. And we sat down and we read as many stories as we could give in that visit and we just came back from a week from there and I took the book again and she read me a story every night before we went to bed all so she is my biggest reader. I really want you know I’m excited for the time where she could read things like little women and the Secret Garden.

00:21:17

And Anne of Green Gables and all those that I loved when I was growing up. Yes. And hopefully she won’t get distracted by all the screen stuff and all that. Well they’re always out there. We’ll hope but her dad is a software producer for video games so big.

00:21:39

I’m not going to hold out too much right.

00:21:42

Yeah. My family is not readers either my own husband has not even read my book. Are you serious serious. Now granted when I was writing it I did read a lot of chapters too and a lot of those chapters were deleted and changed and so he doesn’t even know the story. Oh I think you should sit down and read to him every night. I should but then he’ll probably punish me by sitting me down and reading me dental journal and all OK OK.

00:22:08

So I don’t know. Maybe not maybe not. Yeah.

00:22:13

So this bookstore is just a like an oasis of art. I think for us the just the written word people can go there and experience it but independent bookstores are having a really hard time surviving right now. And I don’t think that everybody out there understands that it’s important to buy locally and not from Amazon and to buy new from the author from the bookstore just because it saves you money doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s good. So let’s talk about that.

00:22:52

A lot of people ask me how can you compete with Amazon. We can’t we cannot compete with Amazon and that’s what I always tell them. However we can offer things that Amazon does not. Yeah Amazon offers quick delivery and a discounted price. When you come in our store whoever is there is going to walk out from behind the counter and greet you and ask you what you’re reading. Yes. Talk about what we’re reading. And we like to put the right book in the right person’s hands. Yes. You’re not going to get that at Amazon. Definitely not. You won’t get an author of that. You won’t meet the author through Amazon like you will in an indie bookstore. I had a phone call one day last week and it was a young man who was looking for a gift book for his girlfriend. He told me what he wanted and I told him oh about three or four different books that were on my shelf that I would recommend. And then when he got through he said you know there is no way I could have even paid for that kind of information if I gone on Amazon to look for it. So not only do I want to buy this book from you he gave me a list of other books to buy. Wow. It was I mean what a great guy. There was so much joy in just being able to find him what he needed and the top books with somebody. Yes. That’s what we do best. That’s what we love. Yeah. So we do have some things that so that you’re not forced to use the A word or the K word. But we don’t have a Kindle what we have is Kobo and there are e-books and Kobo is in a rater designed in Germany especially for indie bookstores. OK. So we do have that available in the store available. We have audio books through libros OK li bro how should say it libro ah OK. And it if you sign up for li bro and leave audible your first three books are free. Wow so that’s a really great deal. That is an audible is not cheap so it’s not like you know you’re getting a great deal right. With audible well you probably know but a lot of people may not know that audible is owned by Amazon good reads is owned by Amazon. So when good reads when people are really pushing a book it’s Amazon behind that book. Yes but not necessarily the readers that you know we’re looking for great recommendations from readers. But what we’re getting is really just filtered down from Amazon in a different way. Right. So what I think about because so many people come in through the course of a day I can’t tell you how many people will tell me on the phone or in the store. Well I could get this cheaper on Amazon they tell you that to your face to my face or they will wait until I’ve explained some great books and go Oh thanks I’m gonna go order it on Amazon. Yeah. And then they’re looking at probably as I walk out as a whole remember and Peter Pan where they talking about fairies and somebody said I don’t believe in fairies. And Peter says what you don’t believe in fairies every time somebody says they don’t believe in fairies a fairy dies. That’s how I feel about Amazon every time you order a book from Amazon. It helps an indie bookstore die a little more because after a while if it continues the way it is now we won’t be able to compete there will only be one store and that will be Amazon right.

00:27:08

And I mean it not only kills indie bookstores but it kills authors too. Oh yes. I mean you know I think every author’s book has to be on Amazon my book is on Amazon of course and I looked on there the other day and you know how on Amazon you’ve got it from direct from the publisher.

00:27:27

Then also you have the used price as well. There were people that were selling like new copies of my book for a dollar or two cheaper than the brand new price. And so Amazon put it above my link to click to buy it new ad. So people are thinking that they’re buying it new and it’s going to a used bookstore. No. I mean that totally screws authors. It does.

00:27:52

It’s so wrong the playing field is so uneven. Publishers give Amazon huge discounts. No not the same discounts that we get. OK. And they are able to because of the volume of sales that they have. They can also have loss leaders they can afford to give 50 percent off a best seller because most of their other books are not that much off. So that is another consideration when you’re thinking about Amazon. Definitely I heard some rather disturbing news this week in a sales rep told me that an Amazon store is going to be going in right across the street from Parnassus which is in Nashville. Yes hatchets bookstore and of all places it could be just the gall they would choose that site to put their store. They’re poaching clientele. They take money out of our communities instead of keeping it here. A lot of things aren’t taxed Amazon’s not taxed the way that we are both as a consumer and as a small business. You know not just with bookstores but with everything Amazon is just killing us in so many ways. Another way we are part of the community we coordinate school visits with middle grade or young adult or children’s authors. OK. We have a school visit this week with an author. And as you know we do lots of events in the store. We’re often asked by authors to go to offsite locations if they’re going to go speak at a library or out of town. They may ask us to be the bookseller and we go in and take the books and sell books. There are a lot of books selling is loading boxes and unpacking them and packing them. And yes you’ve got to be very strong. So you’re going to haul a lot of boxes. We do that and we try to give books when we can wait to choose a charity every year to give back. We either buy books for a classroom or give books to maybe a shelter. We’ve given books to the jails before because we do get a lot of pre publication copies. And if it’s something that we’ve all read or we don’t want to read then we can just box it up and send it out to somebody that does that because they’re full publishers will often send us boxes of 30 40 books. And when you’ve got 10 publishers that’s a lot of reading.

00:31:02

That is a lot of reading. And so you’re you’re spreading it to people that wouldn’t be able to afford to come into your store and even pay it 50 percent off. You know if you did have the Amazon sales. Yes. Yeah. Wow. That’s fantastic because I think the world needs more of that personal connection and people wanting to share literature are all the good stuff in life with other people instead of just getting on the computer and getting it. We’ve seen so many friendships formed in the store.

00:31:38

You know you’ve probably been a part of it at one time or another where maybe you’re in the store and we’re talking books and somebody else. So wander in and they’ll hear something and come over and conversations starts and it’s just I think especially for women. I think it’s a really good place to have connections and meet up with other people who have similar interests too who have the very same issues as we do. And it’s a place to come and be and not feel judged or that you’ve got to hurry. It’s very very relaxed and Fox Tale is you know we’re passionate about people and we’re passionate about books. Yes. And the two go together. You can’t just sell a book you’ve got to be really excited about the book. And if you’re getting the right book to the right person I know I said that before. Yeah but getting the book that you need in your hand is very important.

00:32:46

Yes. Yes it is. You know I came to the Harper Collins event last week and I had never been to one of those. It was fun. What do you call it a preview event for the coming season. It was amazing because I loved hearing the descriptions of all of these new books and there are these authors out there that I know have written a million books and I hadn’t heard of them yet but I loved hearing the descriptions and I thought Yeah I’m going to start reading this author and I did yeah I went and got Louise Eldritch his book for a great rate. Great read. Howard for a yes. And I love it. And had I not been at that event I would have been able to find that on Amazon and you know search you know authors that I love writing about powerful family events. You can’t get that from Amazon. Now you can know. You can get it at Fox Yale. And so before we go do you have a message for people out there who love to read and where is the best way to find an indie bookstore.

00:33:51

So it’s a. Of course you know people that live in Woodstock Georgia. They’re gonna come to Fox Tale Fox Tale is famous. It’s wonderful. But what if you live somewhere that doesn’t have an indie bookstore close by. Can you order online you can stores order online at most any bookstore in these indie bookstores.

00:34:13

We have our own best seller lists every month. OK. So use your computer for something good and go into Google and just type in in the next Indie Next you know. Next it will take you to a site where there’s book reviews. There’s the best seller list. There’s where you can find the links to both Kobo and Libro for the audio and for the digital books. It will also list all the indie bookstores around the country. Wonderful. And all of those are available for you to use. OK.

00:34:55

So there’s really no excuse not to support the independent bookstores because it’s all right there it is. Yeah. OK. So everybody listening. Support your independent bookstores please. Yes. Because if we don’t they’re going to go away in good books are going to go away. We need you. Yes we definitely do. Well thank you so much for coming in to tell us your story . Yes. Thank you and I wish Fox tale the best in your future endeavors and you running it on your own and I hope you don’t get too tired from running it and never. I think I’m too tired when I go in every day. It’s just energizing that’s in the air. That’s wonderful. And I’m looking forward to your new book and I hope we launch it at FoxTale too. Well once it’s finally done yes you definitely will so maybe you can just call me and like you know light a fire under me once a week or so and get that book so I can do that.

00:35:50

OK. Thank you. All right thanks so much for being here. Thank you.

00:36:03

If you like this podcast so far please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it go on the awesome and leave a rating and a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S… Par bhoo. That’s p a r b h o o. Thanks for listening to Southern life. Indian wife.

The post The importance of independent booksellers with FoxTale Book Shoppe’s Karen Schwettman appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

Today I’m joined by “momedian” Heather Tolley-Bauer. She’s a drop-dead funny, stay-at-home mom, colon cancer survivor, stand-up comedian. Her comedy is for moms, women, and couples and covers everything from parenting to Pintrest, the PTA, and really anything else that keeps us awake at night. She’s also the producer and host of the wildly popular, sold out show called ‘Laugh Lines and Stretch Marks’ and she’s even appeared on season four of the Weather Channel’s top-rated original program called ‘Weather Gone Viral’.

Heather walks us through her “day job” (4:03), details how having a comedic outlook has helped her deal with the “tough stuff” (7:19), she talks about moving to the south as a “hot mess” (12:08), why she enjoys bringing a much needed laugh break to her audience (15:25), how she seeks to find a version of truth in her comedy (17:21), brags about the handsome doctor who convinced her to get the colonoscopy that saved her life (19:43), describes her amazing relationship with her son and why it’s important for him to see that “mommy’s have bad days” (31:22), how her family handles most things in their house with laughter (34:47), and how she hopes they’re teaching their son the right things (38:51).

Check out some of Heather’s hilarious stand-up on her YouTube channel and don’t forget to connect with her on Facebook and Instagram!

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts  and TuneIn. Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagramand Twitter! And…email me at sherylparbhoo@gmail.com to order a signed copy of my book The Unexpected Daughter.

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid.

00:00:07

And I am fiercely proud about. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Prabhoo and this is southern life Indian wife. Today. I’m joined by mom- median Heather Tolley-Bauer.

00:00:23

Heather Tolley -Bauer is a drop dead funny, stay at home mom colon cancer survivor and standup comedian. The first time I saw her on stage I realized I really had to meet her and probably beg her to be my friend. Her comedy is for moms, women, and couples and lets us escape everything from marriage, middle age, and millennials to parenting, Pinterest, and the PTA and really anything else that keeps us awake at night. Heather brings her mom -com to packed shows all over Atlanta, select cities across the U.S., and to large organizations and companies. She’s also the producer and host of the wildly popular sold out show called ‘Laugh Lines and Stretch Marks’ and she’s even appeared on Season 4 of The Weather Channel’s top rated original program called ‘Weather Gone Viral’. Pretty amazing right? Well Heather’s face many challenges in life not the least of which was getting diagnosed with colon cancer at the age of 45. Now she’s turning the page on what might have been described as a midlife crisis and Heather talks with me about using comedy to deal with the tough stuff in life and how important it is for kids to see their mommies have bad days and how she’s using comedy to inspire other moms and survivors to inject just a little bit of laughter into their daily lives. So let’s give a great big welcome to Heather Tolley -Bauer.

00:01:57

Welcome to the show. Thanks for coming back to Southern Life Indian Wife . I just have to tell you last weekend my husband and I went on a date night to a comedy show. It was kind of a date night. We had our adult son and his fiancee with us and that’s kind of about all we get for date night. These days we don’t get to be alone too much. But we went there to see Brian Moote because I wanted to say hey and completely blown away by the opening comedian. I just can’t say enough about this woman how funny she was and how I was just taken by surprise by everything that she talked about in her set. And I’m so lucky to have her sitting here right next to me. Heather Tolley- Bauer. Thank you. So thank you so much for joining me. Oh my gosh. Thanks for having me. You’re excited. Yes. So the next day I was like I’ve got to get in touch with this lady. I was just like Oh my God. Yeah yeah. And I was like I want to make her my friend. I wanted to be on my podcast. The girl. Yeah. So I’m so excited and I wanted to talk to you because you know we’re both moms and we’ve both been through a lot.

00:03:04

Everybody does. We all go through ups and downs. Sure. And your story is just incredibly interesting unique and inspiring to me. Thank you. You’re welcome. And so I just wanted to share that with the people that are listening because I think there’s a lot of people out there that are moms that question they’re doing the right thing for their kids for themselves. And I think a lot of people can really benefit from hearing what you’ve been going through and how you have handled it and tackled it. So let’s talk about that.

00:03:37

OK let’s talk about that. Yeah. So first of all thank you so much for having me.

00:03:43

And I think the biggest compliment anyone could ever give to another human being is to say that you’ve inspired me like you’re you know you’re inspiring. So I appreciate that very much so much. Thank you so much. So I mean as you know I start off every comedy set that I do setting up for the audience too. And you know what I’m all about. And so as you know because you saw me perform I am a forty nine year old stay at home alcoholic and that’s my day.

00:04:18

And I’m cool at it on it.

00:04:21

And I say that I start of every set that way because moms can relate to it. Right. And because I mean I want people to understand that at 49 years old I’ve lived a few chapters. Right know. Right. And that although I am very fortunate to be able to be a stay at home mom I’m not always fulfilled by being a stay at home mom.

00:04:49

Yeah I can totally relate to that. I was a stay at home mom for 20 years and it was not fun. Yeah. There were times that were good. But well you know.

00:05:00

And the way that I relate that to younger a younger audience which much most comedy shows. You know you’re in front of a younger audience and he is you know I look at them and I say Oh I know. Like some of you are looking at me like I’m your worst nightmare. But some of your life that’s a sweet gig. How do I get that gig. You know how do I get to be a stay at home alcoholic. I’m like Just Mary you know I just work hard. MARY Well Mary what do you get. I did one of those six and just married really well.

00:05:32

But yeah I think that you know being being a mom. And of course my son is 10.

00:05:45

So you have a lot to teach me for sure.

00:05:48

Well you can learn from my mistakes not necessarily from any successes that I’ve had probably but you know I think both because you got a lot of kids like you get a boatload of children. None of them are in jail and none of them got pregnant when they were 15.

00:06:02

So see that’s a win. Yeah. That’s a win. That is such a win. And right now at 10 my son’s almost 11. We’re in that Santa Claus tooth fairy Axe body spray.

00:06:15

Yes, I’m there too with a twelve year old. Yeah.

00:06:18

Axe bodies like he believes in you know three things.

00:06:23

Santa Claus the Tooth Fairy and axe bodies spray ahead.

00:06:26

It’s it’s an interesting dynamic to be a stay at home mom who now leaves the house and tells jokes often time that my family’s expense. But I think it’s super important for us for moms in particular and women to take the time to come out and go to a cup for sure go to a comedy show and have had that experience of listening to other moms comedians. It’s what I call myself. Just kind of illuminate what keeps us up at night. It’s sort of like just make fun of it a little bit because not everything is funny right now. Everything’s funny.

00:07:09

But if you can look at it through a lens with humor I think that saves your sanity that can save your life. If you look at things not like you’re going to slit your wrist over it.

00:07:19

Well I hope so. I mean you know my philosophy is if we can you know laugh at the small stuff that we have the bandwidth for the tough stuff. Right. And we both have had tough stuff. We sure everybody out there in my audience has had tough stuff.

00:07:34

Yeah. Everybody has their story. And you know you’re very honest about your journey your story that has brought you to where you are today. So you want to share what exactly that is with the listeners where you started and what made you go into comedy and tell jokes about what you do.

00:07:51

Yeah so five years ago or so five years ago we moved from Connecticut to Georgia as a culture shock.

00:08:02

It was a culture shock. It wasn’t it wasn’t OK. I expected it to be a particular way. OK. I think I I expected to be a very serious. Typical way. And because I would tell my Connecticut friends I mean because I mean I’m not blonde.

00:08:21

I don’t have you know long hair. And so I would tell Connecticut friends I’m like Oh my God I’m going to be like latte drinking yoga pant wearing you know like saying Bless your heart you bless your heart bless your heart bless your heart.

00:08:40

You know I kind of felt like I don’t know I just had a particular female stereotype in mind and I was like I would tell my friends I’m bored with myself already you know because I always had my own thing going on I could have my own business I was a PR consultant you know and then I came here and I knew I was going to be a stay at home mom. And honestly I was a little ticked off about it. You know and because my son was going to kindergarten my husband’s an executive he got to do his thing. And you know all of a sudden I’m in this brand new big house polishing quartz countertops and stainless steel and like I’m going to second the tailpipe if I don’t change something about that.

00:09:23

You know I just wasn’t.

00:09:25

Yeah it was. You can hire your house for like a day. Oh this is beautiful. Now what do I do.

00:09:30

Right. Right. You can only watch so much TV. And so it was it was it was a little bit of a culture shock and then I realized once I kind of got over myself I realized that where we live in Cobb County Georgia.

00:09:47

Nobody’s from Georgia right. People are from all over. So I was really exposed to a lot of different experiences. You know people who have a lot of different experiences and viewpoints. And I was really surprised. It sounds so stupid. I hear myself say it that I’ve got. Get over yourself there. But a really real women here like really real genuine people not like what you expect not at all any girl debutante that’s here later.

00:10:21

Exactly. And there’s that. They are here. The former beauty queen you know the strawberry festival there.

00:10:28

Yeah. The Vidalia onion we you know and not to knock it.

00:10:33

No that’s not what we have in common.

00:10:36

That’s. But I. So so it was culture shock. But I’ve also found the most supportive women that know how to show up. Wow. For you when you need them to show up in in the time that we have lived here I have needed my my girl tribe to show up for me and I’m not somebody who likes to ask for help. You know I’m not somebody who likes to need. I don’t either. That’s that’s hard you know. But the truth is is that when we moved here I had just lost my mother in law who was my best friend. I know that’s a people are like really you know. But she was she was my very best friend and she she died from cancer. And while she was from the time she was diagnosed to the time she died was just a few months. That’s awful. And in that amount of time we found out that we were leaving Connecticut. My husband been off with a job here and we were building a house here while living in Connecticut. My husband was traveling for his job and also to be with his mother as much as he could be. Our son was in pre-K. I had to get a house ready to be sold. And then in March she passed away. And then in June we moved here and I was a hot mess. That’s a lot. It was a lot. I was a hot mess. And then you know like I said kind of you know as a stay at home mom as well ticked off about it. I didn’t. I felt like I didn’t have you know you don’t want to meet people and be like either Hamas be my friend right.

00:12:22

That’s not selling yourself very well. We all have our baggage dry and all have our baggage.

00:12:29

So about six months after living here for about six months now it’s January and I was getting ready to turn forty five OK. And I was like I what do I want this new life to look like. And I said Well I think what I’ll do is I’m just going to do new experiences in this new place that I live and I’m going to blog about it because blogging was a thing. Oh yeah. Blogs a get out now it’s ever a podcast. And the first thing I did was I took a standup comedy class and my writing was it was a great class. I was a great experience. I’ve never like dreamed of being a standup comedian. I wasn’t sure what I was gonna do with it but my friends showed up for me and came to my very first class. My very first performance graduation class you know graduation performance and they really encouraged me to stick with it. And so I was like Alright I’ll do it. So I took a few more classes started hitting some open mikes around town and then I started to realize I do my what I call Mom calm you know I make fun of parenting interests in the PTA.

00:13:47

You know and there’s a lot to make there’s a lot of material millennials and marriage mommy good and middle age you know and I mean plays middle age. I can only hope who lives to be 98 years old. Like now I’m forty nine years old like.

00:14:01

I mean I fear that is way over the night so far like I’m being generous when I say I’m 40.

00:14:09

But hey I mean 100 hundred years ago you would’ve been on your desk. I did well with long gray hair and no teeth.

00:14:15

I don’t know where I’d be. But I know. So comedy was not my long term plan.

00:14:21

But a year into it when I was diagnosed with cancer I. And then when I got through that I was like oh there’s an opportunity here. There’s an opportunity to have be funny. Oh I call it being funny on purpose. And what I mean is how being funny with a with a message OK. And sometimes that message like what you saw the other night. Sometimes that messages. Is raising awareness for colon cancer which is the cancer I had. Everyone just assumes I had breast cancer.

00:15:02

I mean I guess that makes sense isn’t that more common or is it more common.

00:15:05

Well I mean I think you know people just assume that you’re a woman who had breast cancer plus these are just too spectacular too perfect or too perfect to be you know not to be vague but they’re real they’re real. But you know people think that women don’t get colon cancer but we do we get colon cancer as. As frequently as men do. OK well that’s good to know for everybody to be aware of that. Yes. I say if you have a colon you can get colon cancer. But sometimes I go on stage and the purpose of my comedy is just to bring people a much needed laugh break. Yes especially women and moms and couples. There’s nothing that makes you more present than laughing at a joke. Yeah because if you’re not present you’ve missed the joke. Right. So you have to be paying attention. And so you have to it just forces you to push everything else away and there’s all this data about what laughing does for your mind your body the endorphins the kicks in the long term health effects of just laughing that you’re really really doing something good for yourself just by laughing. So sometimes you know there doesn’t have to be a message. I just have to make you laugh. And that’s the gift right absolutely that’s the gift.

00:16:28

Yeah. And you talk about all of these crazy mom things that we all go through we can all relate to it. And it’s great to get in front of someone who can laugh about it and it just it helps you release all of this tension because as a mom of five I know I’ve been through all of what you talk about with the kids and husband and then some I read that time five times five. It’s like it’s like a pressure cooker so it’s a great relief to be able to just laugh about it know that you’re not alone.

00:16:56

Yeah I mean some of my favorite jokes. Here’s the thing about comedy is that people who are watching comedy assume that what you’re saying is the truth.

00:17:10

Right. It’s like when you write a novel. Right yeah. They’re like Oh yeah that’s true right now.

00:17:16

But it could be true. Yeah. You don’t know that it’s. And there’s there is a version of truth in it. So. So it’s an interesting thing to stand onstage and talk about how I’ve been married for almost 19 years now 19 years. Very soon. All right. And how you know we want to have you know sex with each other and we’re so very hot for each other we’re so very love with each other and we just you know and we want to have sex we just don’t.

00:17:43

Right. That is true. It is true. Well it’s true with everybody with me. It’s absolutely true. But.

00:17:53

But you know some of the other things you know around that you know not not necessarily true. And I forget that because you know a lot of times my husband’s in the audience right. And so like he knows it’s true and I know it’s true. And then I realized like people around him are looking at him. Go on. Oh my God she’s hot. She’s talking about it. And that’s kind of like and you don’t break the fourth wall. Right. Like you don’t you know say that’s not true. Sometimes I say that because then I tag it with another joke. But right. But yeah I think I mean kind of this whole time even when I kind of stuck to my mom com lane before the cancer I started having women come up to me and say well I really needed that like oh me too. I needed that. I needed that laugh. And then I realized after my wacky diagnosis and how I was diagnosed it was really bizarre. And basically it really just boiled down to I put myself first and I didn’t have symptoms of colon cancer. There was nothing wrong with me. I had a doctor who looked at my family history who was a dermatologist of all people who said you know what I really recommend you get your colon ask of me. And at 45 years old and no symptoms I was like right. Let me get right on that. Yeah. That’s not to find you’re not going to just jump into now because I mean although there’s nothing. You know the colon cancer got bad. It is it does it. It is a lengthy process. It does it is some prep involved. And as a busy mom it’s really easy to just say no to that. And it’s really easy to just say now.

00:19:42

But he was really handsome this doctor love those my kids had an orthodontist that was so handsome I was loving every appointee.

00:19:52

So I still my dear he saved my life. This guy. So he’s still my dermatologist. And he looks like a walking Ken doll. He is so handsome and he called me and he was like Really. Yeah. Have you scheduled that yet. And I said no and he’s like I really want you to. And I was like All right because you’re adorable. I’m going to.

00:20:13

And now I know really what happened was I said you know my dad died from colon cancer. And I said you know what if there is a chance that. There could be something wrong. They owe it to my son right.

00:20:32

Who at the time was six or seven years old.

00:20:35

I it to him too because I got to do at you know. I mean I had him at 38 years old. I have to do whatever it is I have to do to see this kid grow up you know. And so so lucky. I agree. I agree to do it. I found the doctor who didn’t dismiss me which is a very big thing.

00:20:57

That is a very big thing. Just because sometimes they look at you and say Oh you’re a woman. Oh honey.

00:21:02

Yeah I hate that. And my insurance company paid for it. You’re very lucky. I’m so lucky. I’m so lucky because you know they found the one polyp that they found was with cancer. Wow.

00:21:19

And just because of your dermatologists saying hey you need to because I had a dreamy dermatologist. Fantastic.

00:21:29

I mean we all have dermatologists in Cobb County, Georgia that’s the way it is. But yeah yeah. And and so after they found my cancer and you know when they find that they you just know they have cancer you don’t know what the stages they have to remove everything to find out what the stages. And I had to have two thirds of my goal and take it out. Wow.

00:21:53

Which I know you know as you know I talk about that on stage and like that sounds dramatic but you have way more coal and than you actually need to do. Yeah. Right. Like that’s a good thing. I didn’t know. Yeah I didn’t know.

00:22:04

And so I have one third of my colon and I am completely I live a normal life. My quality of life is is amazing. It’s fine. And I think that’s another that’s another reason why talk about that on stage in joke form because there are people at my. My mother is one of those people who two years ago was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer never had a mammogram and she’s a nurse but she never had a mammogram because she didn’t want to know. Right. And so I make that my responsibility to tell you that this is what I went through and trust me. It was it it wasn’t bad right.

00:22:46

Was it easy. Yeah. But it’s something that you need to do. But it was a bad. Yeah. You do owe it to your kid.

00:22:53

I do because you know after what you went to a cancer patient you know you have an oncologist and you see your oncologist you know fairly frequently and you know I’ve had my oncologist and several other doctors tell me that you know I’m lucky to be alive because by the time I would’ve had symptoms it probably would have been too late. Mm hmm. And by the time if I would have waited until I was 50 to have that baseline call endoscopy that was five years and my oncologist said Heather you had five years to live that three and a half years ago.

00:23:27

Wow. Crazy right. That is crazy and you’re so very lucky that you had good insurance. Yeah absolutely. I had a great doctor that was you know pushing you. My brother passed away when he was forty five from an aneurysm and he was you know the picture of health never went to the doctors and feel like he needed to. Yeah. But he had high blood pressure that no one knew about. So of course that gives me a high risk because it’s a it’s a genetic trait that can you know be in families so I had to go and have this CTA a scan of all of my arteries. My insurance didn’t pay for it. Well it was I think twelve hundred dollars. Wow. And luckily I’m able to do that but someone that doesn’t have less resources the insurance companies really make it so hard to get yourself to give yourself permission to get yourself to the doctor to have good health care.

00:24:21

Well I mean this I have to be a little careful about what I talk about when it comes to insurance because that’s the industry that my husband. Oh OK.

00:24:30

But I can tell you that there’s a there’s enough responsibility to go around. Is there. Yeah. There is.

00:24:44

And I think that’s important for people to know too because there is sort of this there is this opinion that we are all the victims.

00:24:53

Yeah right right. Right.

00:24:54

And you know the big bad you know you know insurers. But listen it’s a big affordable health care is a big problem. Yes for sure for sure. Because now I know that I carry a gene that is under it’s an under diagnosed gene.

00:25:14

It used to be considered rare it’s not really considered rarity more called Lynch syndrome or like one in two hundred and seventeen. Don’t quote me on that but something around that one in two hundred seventeen people have this gene and they don’t know it. Wow. And it really starts with the cancer that you were at the highest risk for is colon cancer and you know check that off my done. Lucky you. Skin cancer is another one.

00:25:39

Check that.

00:25:40

Had that had a complete and total hysterectomy so that I wouldn’t get that answer. Three months after I had my colon taken out and now I I do the other cancers that I’m at a higher risk for are kidney pancreatic brain cancer and kind of anything that they’ve just added breast cancer to that. And then in last year I had bile duct cancer. And you know that was a thing I didn’t either. But so it’s like oh I was been so focused on my pancreas that my kidneys. Because those are fun cancers to have.

00:26:15

Not only that but I can’t think of any jokes but jokes are hilarious kiddie jokes I don’t have any kidney cancer I don’t have any jokes about that because that’s on a very funny organ. But yeah.

00:26:26

So last August I had filed that just a little bit of bile duct cancer and had six had to have six procedures to get. Wow to be done with that. And it wasn’t a big deal it was all done. You know endoscopic Lee but it’s six times I have to be put under yeah and six times I have to you know thinking about prepared for. Yeah. Between August didn’t end January of this year. So I definitely know that my how long I live is directly related to how good my health care is. Yes. Yeah for sure. And that is that’s a sobering point. Yeah. Just knowing that is tumbling. It’s sobering. And it’s something that you know I hope to get more involved in than you know helping people get have access to.

00:27:21

Sure. And do you feel like it’s something that also has made you re-evaluate life and live in the moment.

00:27:29

Well I’ve lived a little bit too much in the moment. Yeah I read I definitely I just I don’t know which came first the diagnosis or my midlife crisis. You know I read I think it all happened at the same time. So I don’t know which one was which.

00:27:44

But yeah it definitely made me take on this this this mantra of life’s short eat the cupcake. And then you know three years later I’m still eating the cupcake. I’m like I got to quit eat the cupcake.

00:27:58

You know it’s kind of like I was when I was pregnant. Oh I’m eating for two. Yeah keep doing that for five years.

00:28:04

Exactly. Because at the heart have a deep breath you know that. Yeah I mean and also I kind of.

00:28:12

Had this mantra of I’m not doing anything that sucks because going to all these screenings and tests and blah blah MRI C.T. scan that added the part time job for me and so on like some day is my day to day sex so I’m not going to go. Should I run that back. Yeah. You know can’t I probably am I gonna. Absolutely not. Because why I’m not doing anything that’s not right. And there’s cupcakes for there cupcakes right there. And I so I sort of had to figure out the balance right. I had to figure out the What Works for me. And finally I was like You know what.

00:28:52

I had an aha moment and I said wow you know I I can live another 20 years with this I could live two years with that.

00:29:02

I don’t know. You know no one none of us now. Right. Right. But but I have something on paper that says I really don’t now. And that’s a weird that’s a really weird place to be. And I was like You know what if I live the next 20 years as though life’s short I’m probably going to die from cancer and then I don’t I’m to be really mad.

00:29:23

Like I’m going to be like Really. Oh that’s 20 years was OK. It’s 20 after the cupcake that I should not be having. Right. So so it’s kind of. This year with sort of my year to be like OK.

00:29:40

So far so good. Yeah. Let’s keep our head screwed on straight. Let’s you know let’s let’s think about this a little differently right. So now you know I’m I’m doing you know I’m making more disciplined choices. OK. Let’s just call it Tell it that.

00:29:59

I’m still having fun. Yeah you absolutely can.

00:30:02

You can run the marathon or the 5 K Or around the block but you don’t have to do it every day. You don’t even have to do it every year.

00:30:08

I don’t know you have to do it so hard that I don’t want to do it tomorrow. Right. You know to do anything like that now and I could not I cannot do the marathon not know I never could.

00:30:17

Now I know someone who does the Iron Man.

00:30:20

Yeah. Now. Oh God. Now to that falls under I don’t need to do anything that sucks.

00:30:26

I don’t care what your mindset is

00:30:29

So that’s going to suck. I don’t care how disciplined and trained you are. That is going to suck. Yeah.

00:30:35

Yeah I get that I don’t get that but I think that it’s really great that you’re setting this example for your son. Now I know a lot of the things that I went through I feel like you know I showed my ass to my kids sometimes I would be going through terrible things you know we had teenagers I had a hard time in my marriage and I had five kids and you know all of these things going on at once and I was not always the best to them. They saw me cry. They saw my good times and they saw how I either handled it poorly or how I did handle it and I was honest about the good and the bad. And I’m hoping that they are going to be better people for it. So do you feel like in a weird way this is good for your son to see. I do. How you cope.

00:31:21

I absolutely do. I think that it’s important. Again my son’s 10 and I was just telling you before we get started I remember a moment when my son was much younger and I don’t know he was being he and I are very similar like he looks just like my husband.

00:31:41

But when he opens up his mouth he’s all me and because I’m home with them it’s like we are like this like we are so close like oddly connected like we know what the other person is thinking. But we also butt heads all the time.

00:31:53

Yeah that sounds like me and my son. So you get up and I say he’s my difficult child. He’s my only child.

00:32:02

So he’s like my father he’s my sweet one. He’s smart. What is my difficult you know but at the end of the day it’s because we’re very much alike.

00:32:10

And you know one day I don’t know he was just really giving me a hard time about something and I just finally I looked at him and I said you know read Mommy’s get their feelings hurt too. And even in his little I don’t know first second grade brain it was like a moment. He was like it was like an illuminating moment for him. He was like Really. You know I never thought about that because they don’t see us as people. Right.

00:32:35

And I think that yeah they need to see us they need to see that things are hard and they need to see that people are can be resilient. They need to see that mommies have bad days and that but that we work through it and that we come out on the other side of it because I have definitely known people that don’t show their flaws to their children or show or share their challenges.

00:33:10

Everything is has to be appropriate. Right and right. And that’s for you. That’s for you to decide. But as far as so far as my diagnosis goes I. So this gene that I have my son could have it. He has a 50 50 chance of having it and we’re very honest about that and we’re very honest about. I have to have another procedure and you know what’s gonna happen and what are they looking for and how am I you know and what’s the diagnosis and what’s the prognosis. But you know he also sees us in our my husband and I and our marriage have a fight bigger. No.

00:33:56

He read has heard me say a swear word a time or two.

00:34:00

You know he has seen me lose my mind over something and. And I think that I. I do believe that down the road he’s gonna be like oh yeah my momma.

00:34:16

Listen they’re all gonna end up in therapy and I think they’re all gonna end up in therapy.

00:34:22

You’re just it’s just pick your poison and what I know. I think my my kid’s story is gonna be Oh my parents left all the time and they told me I could be anything and they provided me with all my basic needs and most of what I wanted but in a realistic kind of way.

00:34:39

You know I am the therapist is going to be like Okay move on. It really doesn’t make you feel.

00:34:47

And of course in my house we handle most things with laughter.

00:34:56

That’s what saves people’s lives don’t you.

00:34:59

That is how we really and we know not everything else.

00:35:03

Well we get that. But our go to is to just take you know take a take a step back. Oh my God what did he say to me the other day and it was so funny.

00:35:18

Oh. He said. I.

00:35:23

So I have depression anxiety. I mean what do you know what. Don’t you know I’ve been treated for that for four years. You ask what comic slash mom slash human being you know exactly. And so some days you know some days my medication’s working better than others you know and some days I’m on top of my game and some days I’m not. And then you throw in my hormones or have left the building and then you throw in you know this diagnosis that I have and I never know like what’s driving it. That doesn’t matter. I have ups and I have downs and some days I’m really moody and one day I picked up my son and I was and I was really moody and he is obsessed with these strange but true books ok like crazy fun facts about you know whatever. You know it would take you know I don’t know how many golf balls to fill up the state of Rhode Island and then you know I kind of Soviet ad if you put fifty thousand on an ad together you get a whatever whatever and he because we’re weird oddly connected. He knew I was having one of my days. Right. And he goes Wow I guess it’s true what I read in my weird but true book that statistically speaking most people are cranky on a Thursday. And it was a Thursday and I like them and I go wow read bold move pointing that out to somebody who’s cranky on a Thursday.

00:36:56

And real bold move and he says Yeah I know that really could’ve gone either way. And he’s 10 years old. Oh my gosh.

00:37:04

A bold move bold you know. I’m surprised that he says I’m surprised I’m still stay a day you know that’s awesome. We just you know and then we laugh you know we laughed about it and I’m still cranky but.

00:37:17

But instead of like flipping out over a year ago or whenever we just Yeah we he knows how to kind of yeah.

00:37:26

He gets me. Yeah. He knows he knows how to kind of turn it around. Yeah that’s great.

00:37:30

He gets me for sure.

00:37:32

But I think that’s one of the beauties of having just that one child easier good child your bad child. All I ever know because I have I have an only child. Yes I have five kids and my older four saw the absolute crazy in me and I wasn’t able to be able to do that because I’d have you know two going into the swimming pool at the same time an opposite direction right. I’m a teenager and a middle schooler. And it was just crazy. So no way to really relate to that.

00:38:01

Well I have the luxury of a lot of downtime. Yeah.

00:38:06

Meaning that he gets our undivided attention.

00:38:12

Either it is the two of us or it is he and his father or it is the three of us. But yeah he’s like that with our young. Yeah. Gets a lot of I mean I always say for anybody who wants to say that only children ended it at.

00:38:28

We have nothing better to do but to be all up in his business.

00:38:32

So we are very hard on him and that’s OK for sure. If we hold him to a very high standard for sure. But we also have a lot of fun.

00:38:43

Yes you have. It’s a great opportunity to have just that one kid.

00:38:46

It is it is and I hope that what we’re teaching him as well as I mean my husband and I are madly in love but they are we are we are almost 19 years that we’ve been together almost 23 years. And we have been together all of my husband’s adult life. Wow. And did you rob the cradle. I did. I did I am the original cougar. I am. He’s five years younger than I am. I know. I know. What was I thinking. And on paper we should not work right. But we totally worked with my husband and I until they were we totally work. And I’m I hope that our son is also seeing a marriage where we’re partners. Where I don’t think he’ll I don’t think he would describe me as a stay at home mom. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but I think he would just say no my mom was always doing something know I think he thinks of me as a as a as a comic. I think he thinks that my job is being a standup comic. But also he sees this deal with each other with respect with a lot of love a lot of laughs because laughter is a life skill. It’s so important it diffuses situations it build self esteem. And sometimes I go and talk to third graders about what’s funny and what’s not funny. I like let funny is making somebody feel good about themselves when they leave your presence. Yeah it’s not you don’t get to just say anything you want and then say I’m just joking right.

00:40:28

Yeah. Making fun of them and going Oh yeah I’m just kidding.

00:40:32

You know that’s not funny.

00:40:34

No that’s not humor.

00:40:35

That’s a really good differentiation for you to make for them because if they don’t have that example at home I know that right. And you know innately.

00:40:43

Right. I know that. Yeah. And so. So I hope that my son is is learning how to be kind compassionate how to relate to people and how to use humor as a life skill because God knows it has gotten me through you know this stuff that I go that my diagnosis and my continued diagnosis.

00:41:07

Yeah. And I’m so lucky I have a platform in which to share all that. Yes. That is resonating with others right.

00:41:13

That that is the amazing thing. So you’re doing this for yourself for your son for your husband and you’re giving so much to the people that see you on stage or hear you on a podcast or probably even run into you at the grocery store.

00:41:27

Yeah. Pretty much what you see on stage is who I am in my life.

00:41:31

And that’s just amazing that’s so genuine. And people really get a lot from that thing. So what’s coming up next for you. Do you have more shows going on. Do you have any ventures coming up.

00:41:44

Well I do so every month.

00:41:48

I just had one last night

00:41:51

I do a show called laugh lines and stretch marks. That is my baby. That is my brand. That is my everything.

00:42:01

That’s my life every day.

00:42:02

It is at Mad Life. Here in Georgia. That’s my home theater is that my life stages studios and Woodstock and it is mostly an all female lineup of comics women from diverse backgrounds with diverse stories to tell and so it’s comedy for moms women and couples. It is been I’ve been doing that for a little over a year now and it has been a wildly popular show.

00:42:30

I tried to get there last night but because I’m a mom my dog chewed up my kid’s shoe that’s not OK.

00:42:37

No. So what am I going to do. I got to go buy my kid some shoes and I didn’t get to go.

00:42:43

Well luckily for you we do this every Monday and it is such a great show. And so I am I mean I perform all over the place and I have another show that I run every week in Roswell at the Gaslight. If anybody is in Roswell Georgia area they do that every Wednesday but then I get booked to do other people’s shows. But really my baby is left like to stretch marks and I am really just working on putting that together as a package to take it on tour. How awesome that I can bring my mom calm to other suburbs.

00:43:22

Oh I would love that. Well if you do get to that point I will definitely put it all out there to all of my followers and all of my people because I that’s so exciting.

00:43:31

Yeah I’m very excited about it. Super excited about it.

00:43:34

Yeah. They are awesome. Well I really really appreciate you coming here and talking to me and I know when I first saw you I wanted you to be on the show and I really wanted you to be my friend so I hope this will be friends.

00:43:47

Of course. Thank you so much for having me. What a fun time. Thank you.

00:44:01

Did you like this podcast so far. Please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it go on be awesome and leave a rating and a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S. Parbhoo . That’s p a r b h o o. Thanks for listening to Southern life Indian Wife.

The post Musings of a “momedian” with comedian and cancer survivor Heather Tolley-Bauer [podcast] appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.

Today I’m joined by “momedian” Heather Tolley-Bauer. She’s a drop-dead funny, stay-at-home mom, colon cancer survivor, stand-up comedian. Her comedy is for moms, women, and couples and covers everything from parenting to Pintrest, the PTA, and really anything else that keeps us awake at night. She’s also the producer and host of the wildly popular, sold out show called ‘Laugh Lines and Stretch Marks’ and she’s even appeared on season four of the Weather Channel’s top-rated original program called ‘Weather Gone Viral’.

Heather walks us through her “day job” (4:03), details how having a comedic outlook has helped her deal with the “tough stuff” (7:19), she talks about moving to the south as a “hot mess” (12:08), why she enjoys bringing a much needed laugh break to her audience (15:25), how she seeks to find a version of truth in her comedy (17:21), brags about the handsome doctor who convinced her to get the colonoscopy that saved her life (19:43), describes her amazing relationship with her son and why it’s important for him to see that “mommy’s have bad days” (31:22), how her family handles most things in their house with laughter (34:47), and how she hopes they’re teaching their son the right things (38:51).

Check out some of Heather’s hilarious stand-up on her YouTube channel and don’t forget to connect with her on Facebook and Instagram!

Subscribe to Southern Life Indian Wife where you listen to podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts  and TuneIn. Keep up to date with the podcast and my upcoming book news by following me on Facebook,  Instagramand Twitter! And…email me at sherylparbhoo@gmail.com to order a signed copy of my book The Unexpected Daughter.

Show Podcast Transcription

00:00:02

I’m a lifelong Southerner married to an Indian man who grew up in South Africa during apartheid.

00:00:07

And I am fiercely proud about. If you don’t like that Well bless your heart. I’m Sheryl Prabhoo and this is southern life Indian wife. Today. I’m joined by mom- median Heather Tolley-Bauer.

00:00:23

Heather Tolley -Bauer is a drop dead funny, stay at home mom colon cancer survivor and standup comedian. The first time I saw her on stage I realized I really had to meet her and probably beg her to be my friend. Her comedy is for moms, women, and couples and lets us escape everything from marriage, middle age, and millennials to parenting, Pinterest, and the PTA and really anything else that keeps us awake at night. Heather brings her mom -com to packed shows all over Atlanta, select cities across the U.S., and to large organizations and companies. She’s also the producer and host of the wildly popular sold out show called ‘Laugh Lines and Stretch Marks’ and she’s even appeared on Season 4 of The Weather Channel’s top rated original program called ‘Weather Gone Viral’. Pretty amazing right? Well Heather’s face many challenges in life not the least of which was getting diagnosed with colon cancer at the age of 45. Now she’s turning the page on what might have been described as a midlife crisis and Heather talks with me about using comedy to deal with the tough stuff in life and how important it is for kids to see their mommies have bad days and how she’s using comedy to inspire other moms and survivors to inject just a little bit of laughter into their daily lives. So let’s give a great big welcome to Heather Tolley -Bauer.

00:01:57

Welcome to the show. Thanks for coming back to Southern Life Indian Wife . I just have to tell you last weekend my husband and I went on a date night to a comedy show. It was kind of a date night. We had our adult son and his fiancee with us and that’s kind of about all we get for date night. These days we don’t get to be alone too much. But we went there to see Brian Moote because I wanted to say hey and completely blown away by the opening comedian. I just can’t say enough about this woman how funny she was and how I was just taken by surprise by everything that she talked about in her set. And I’m so lucky to have her sitting here right next to me. Heather Tolley- Bauer. Thank you. So thank you so much for joining me. Oh my gosh. Thanks for having me. You’re excited. Yes. So the next day I was like I’ve got to get in touch with this lady. I was just like Oh my God. Yeah yeah. And I was like I want to make her my friend. I wanted to be on my podcast. The girl. Yeah. So I’m so excited and I wanted to talk to you because you know we’re both moms and we’ve both been through a lot.

00:03:04

Everybody does. We all go through ups and downs. Sure. And your story is just incredibly interesting unique and inspiring to me. Thank you. You’re welcome. And so I just wanted to share that with the people that are listening because I think there’s a lot of people out there that are moms that question they’re doing the right thing for their kids for themselves. And I think a lot of people can really benefit from hearing what you’ve been going through and how you have handled it and tackled it. So let’s talk about that.

00:03:37

OK let’s talk about that. Yeah. So first of all thank you so much for having me.

00:03:43

And I think the biggest compliment anyone could ever give to another human being is to say that you’ve inspired me like you’re you know you’re inspiring. So I appreciate that very much so much. Thank you so much. So I mean as you know I start off every comedy set that I do setting up for the audience too. And you know what I’m all about. And so as you know because you saw me perform I am a forty nine year old stay at home alcoholic and that’s my day.

00:04:18

And I’m cool at it on it.

00:04:21

And I say that I start of every set that way because moms can relate to it. Right. And because I mean I want people to understand that at 49 years old I’ve lived a few chapters. Right know. Right. And that although I am very fortunate to be able to be a stay at home mom I’m not always fulfilled by being a stay at home mom.

00:04:49

Yeah I can totally relate to that. I was a stay at home mom for 20 years and it was not fun. Yeah. There were times that were good. But well you know.

00:05:00

And the way that I relate that to younger a younger audience which much most comedy shows. You know you’re in front of a younger audience and he is you know I look at them and I say Oh I know. Like some of you are looking at me like I’m your worst nightmare. But some of your life that’s a sweet gig. How do I get that gig. You know how do I get to be a stay at home alcoholic. I’m like Just Mary you know I just work hard. MARY Well Mary what do you get. I did one of those six and just married really well.

00:05:32

But yeah I think that you know being being a mom. And of course my son is 10.

00:05:45

So you have a lot to teach me for sure.

00:05:48

Well you can learn from my mistakes not necessarily from any successes that I’ve had probably but you know I think both because you got a lot of kids like you get a boatload of children. None of them are in jail and none of them got pregnant when they were 15.

00:06:02

So see that’s a win. Yeah. That’s a win. That is such a win. And right now at 10 my son’s almost 11. We’re in that Santa Claus tooth fairy Axe body spray.

00:06:15

Yes, I’m there too with a twelve year old. Yeah.

00:06:18

Axe bodies like he believes in you know three things.

00:06:23

Santa Claus the Tooth Fairy and axe bodies spray ahead.

00:06:26

It’s it’s an interesting dynamic to be a stay at home mom who now leaves the house and tells jokes often time that my family’s expense. But I think it’s super important for us for moms in particular and women to take the time to come out and go to a cup for sure go to a comedy show and have had that experience of listening to other moms comedians. It’s what I call myself. Just kind of illuminate what keeps us up at night. It’s sort of like just make fun of it a little bit because not everything is funny right now. Everything’s funny.

00:07:09

But if you can look at it through a lens with humor I think that saves your sanity that can save your life. If you look at things not like you’re going to slit your wrist over it.

00:07:19

Well I hope so. I mean you know my philosophy is if we can you know laugh at the small stuff that we have the bandwidth for the tough stuff. Right. And we both have had tough stuff. We sure everybody out there in my audience has had tough stuff.

00:07:34

Yeah. Everybody has their story. And you know you’re very honest about your journey your story that has brought you to where you are today. So you want to share what exactly that is with the listeners where you started and what made you go into comedy and tell jokes about what you do.

00:07:51

Yeah so five years ago or so five years ago we moved from Connecticut to Georgia as a culture shock.

00:08:02

It was a culture shock. It wasn’t it wasn’t OK. I expected it to be a particular way. OK. I think I I expected to be a very serious. Typical way. And because I would tell my Connecticut friends I mean because I mean I’m not blonde.

00:08:21

I don’t have you know long hair. And so I would tell Connecticut friends I’m like Oh my God I’m going to be like latte drinking yoga pant wearing you know like saying Bless your heart you bless your heart bless your heart bless your heart.

00:08:40

You know I kind of felt like I don’t know I just had a particular female stereotype in mind and I was like I would tell my friends I’m bored with myself already you know because I always had my own thing going on I could have my own business I was a PR consultant you know and then I came here and I knew I was going to be a stay at home mom. And honestly I was a little ticked off about it. You know and because my son was going to kindergarten my husband’s an executive he got to do his thing. And you know all of a sudden I’m in this brand new big house polishing quartz countertops and stainless steel and like I’m going to second the tailpipe if I don’t change something about that.

00:09:23

You know I just wasn’t.

00:09:25

Yeah it was. You can hire your house for like a day. Oh this is beautiful. Now what do I do.

00:09:30

Right. Right. You can only watch so much TV. And so it was it was it was a little bit of a culture shock and then I realized once I kind of got over myself I realized that where we live in Cobb County Georgia.

00:09:47

Nobody’s from Georgia right. People are from all over. So I was really exposed to a lot of different experiences. You know people who have a lot of different experiences and viewpoints. And I was really surprised. It sounds so stupid. I hear myself say it that I’ve got. Get over yourself there. But a really real women here like really real genuine people not like what you expect not at all any girl debutante that’s here later.

00:10:21

Exactly. And there’s that. They are here. The former beauty queen you know the strawberry festival there.

00:10:28

Yeah. The Vidalia onion we you know and not to knock it.

00:10:33

No that’s not what we have in common.

00:10:36

That’s. But I. So so it was culture shock. But I’ve also found the most supportive women that know how to show up. Wow. For you when you need them to show up in in the time that we have lived here I have needed my my girl tribe to show up for me and I’m not somebody who likes to ask for help. You know I’m not somebody who likes to need. I don’t either. That’s that’s hard you know. But the truth is is that when we moved here I had just lost my mother in law who was my best friend. I know that’s a people are like really you know. But she was she was my very best friend and she she died from cancer. And while she was from the time she was diagnosed to the time she died was just a few months. That’s awful. And in that amount of time we found out that we were leaving Connecticut. My husband been off with a job here and we were building a house here while living in Connecticut. My husband was traveling for his job and also to be with his mother as much as he could be. Our son was in pre-K. I had to get a house ready to be sold. And then in March she passed away. And then in June we moved here and I was a hot mess. That’s a lot. It was a lot. I was a hot mess. And then you know like I said kind of you know as a stay at home mom as well ticked off about it. I didn’t. I felt like I didn’t have you know you don’t want to meet people and be like either Hamas be my friend right.

00:12:22

That’s not selling yourself very well. We all have our baggage dry and all have our baggage.

00:12:29

So about six months after living here for about six months now it’s January and I was getting ready to turn forty five OK. And I was like I what do I want this new life to look like. And I said Well I think what I’ll do is I’m just going to do new experiences in this new place that I live and I’m going to blog about it because blogging was a thing. Oh yeah. Blogs a get out now it’s ever a podcast. And the first thing I did was I took a standup comedy class and my writing was it was a great class. I was a great experience. I’ve never like dreamed of being a standup comedian. I wasn’t sure what I was gonna do with it but my friends showed up for me and came to my very first class. My very first performance graduation class you know graduation performance and they really encouraged me to stick with it. And so I was like Alright I’ll do it. So I took a few more classes started hitting some open mikes around town and then I started to realize I do my what I call Mom calm you know I make fun of parenting interests in the PTA.

00:13:47

You know and there’s a lot to make there’s a lot of material millennials and marriage mommy good and middle age you know and I mean plays middle age. I can only hope who lives to be 98 years old. Like now I’m forty nine years old like.

00:14:01

I mean I fear that is way over the night so far like I’m being generous when I say I’m 40.

00:14:09

But hey I mean 100 hundred years ago you would’ve been on your desk. I did well with long gray hair and no teeth.

00:14:15

I don’t know where I’d be. But I know. So comedy was not my long term plan.

00:14:21

But a year into it when I was diagnosed with cancer I. And then when I got through that I was like oh there’s an opportunity here. There’s an opportunity to have be funny. Oh I call it being funny on purpose. And what I mean is how being funny with a with a message OK. And sometimes that message like what you saw the other night. Sometimes that messages. Is raising awareness for colon cancer which is the cancer I had. Everyone just assumes I had breast cancer.

00:15:02

I mean I guess that makes sense isn’t that more common or is it more common.

00:15:05

Well I mean I think you know people just assume that you’re a woman who had breast cancer plus these are just too spectacular too perfect or too perfect to be you know not to be vague but they’re real they’re real. But you know people think that women don’t get colon cancer but we do we get colon cancer as. As frequently as men do. OK well that’s good to know for everybody to be aware of that. Yes. I say if you have a colon you can get colon cancer. But sometimes I go on stage and the purpose of my comedy is just to bring people a much needed laugh break. Yes especially women and moms and couples. There’s nothing that makes you more present than laughing at a joke. Yeah because if you’re not present you’ve missed the joke. Right. So you have to be paying attention. And so you have to it just forces you to push everything else away and there’s all this data about what laughing does for your mind your body the endorphins the kicks in the long term health effects of just laughing that you’re really really doing something good for yourself just by laughing. So sometimes you know there doesn’t have to be a message. I just have to make you laugh. And that’s the gift right absolutely that’s the gift.

00:16:28

Yeah. And you talk about all of these crazy mom things that we all go through we can all relate to it. And it’s great to get in front of someone who can laugh about it and it just it helps you release all of this tension because as a mom of five I know I’ve been through all of what you talk about with the kids and husband and then some I read that time five times five. It’s like it’s like a pressure cooker so it’s a great relief to be able to just laugh about it know that you’re not alone.

00:16:56

Yeah I mean some of my favorite jokes. Here’s the thing about comedy is that people who are watching comedy assume that what you’re saying is the truth.

00:17:10

Right. It’s like when you write a novel. Right yeah. They’re like Oh yeah that’s true right now.

00:17:16

But it could be true. Yeah. You don’t know that it’s. And there’s there is a version of truth in it. So. So it’s an interesting thing to stand onstage and talk about how I’ve been married for almost 19 years now 19 years. Very soon. All right. And how you know we want to have you know sex with each other and we’re so very hot for each other we’re so very love with each other and we just you know and we want to have sex we just don’t.

00:17:43

Right. That is true. It is true. Well it’s true with everybody with me. It’s absolutely true. But.

00:17:53

But you know some of the other things you know around that you know not not necessarily true. And I forget that because you know a lot of times my husband’s in the audience right. And so like he knows it’s true and I know it’s true. And then I realized like people around him are looking at him. Go on. Oh my God she’s hot. She’s talking about it. And that’s kind of like and you don’t break the fourth wall. Right. Like you don’t you know say that’s not true. Sometimes I say that because then I tag it with another joke. But right. But yeah I think I mean kind of this whole time even when I kind of stuck to my mom com lane before the cancer I started having women come up to me and say well I really needed that like oh me too. I needed that. I needed that laugh. And then I realized after my wacky diagnosis and how I was diagnosed it was really bizarre. And basically it really just boiled down to I put myself first and I didn’t have symptoms of colon cancer. There was nothing wrong with me. I had a doctor who looked at my family history who was a dermatologist of all people who said you know what I really recommend you get your colon ask of me. And at 45 years old and no symptoms I was like right. Let me get right on that. Yeah. That’s not to find you’re not going to just jump into now because I mean although there’s nothing. You know the colon cancer got bad. It is it does it. It is a lengthy process. It does it is some prep involved. And as a busy mom it’s really easy to just say no to that. And it’s really easy to just say now.

00:19:42

But he was really handsome this doctor love those my kids had an orthodontist that was so handsome I was loving every appointee.

00:19:52

So I still my dear he saved my life. This guy. So he’s still my dermatologist. And he looks like a walking Ken doll. He is so handsome and he called me and he was like Really. Yeah. Have you scheduled that yet. And I said no and he’s like I really want you to. And I was like All right because you’re adorable. I’m going to.

00:20:13

And now I know really what happened was I said you know my dad died from colon cancer. And I said you know what if there is a chance that. There could be something wrong. They owe it to my son right.

00:20:32

Who at the time was six or seven years old.

00:20:35

I it to him too because I got to do at you know. I mean I had him at 38 years old. I have to do whatever it is I have to do to see this kid grow up you know. And so so lucky. I agree. I agree to do it. I found the doctor who didn’t dismiss me which is a very big thing.

00:20:57

That is a very big thing. Just because sometimes they look at you and say Oh you’re a woman. Oh honey.

00:21:02

Yeah I hate that. And my insurance company paid for it. You’re very lucky. I’m so lucky. I’m so lucky because you know they found the one polyp that they found was with cancer. Wow.

00:21:19

And just because of your dermatologists saying hey you need to because I had a dreamy dermatologist. Fantastic.

00:21:29

I mean we all have dermatologists in Cobb County, Georgia that’s the way it is. But yeah yeah. And and so after they found my cancer and you know when they find that they you just know they have cancer you don’t know what the stages they have to remove everything to find out what the stages. And I had to have two thirds of my goal and take it out. Wow.

00:21:53

Which I know you know as you know I talk about that on stage and like that sounds dramatic but you have way more coal and than you actually need to do. Yeah. Right. Like that’s a good thing. I didn’t know. Yeah I didn’t know.

00:22:04

And so I have one third of my colon and I am completely I live a normal life. My quality of life is is amazing. It’s fine. And I think that’s another that’s another reason why talk about that on stage in joke form because there are people at my. My mother is one of those people who two years ago was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer never had a mammogram and she’s a nurse but she never had a mammogram because she didn’t want to know. Right. And so I make that my responsibility to tell you that this is what I went through and trust me. It was it it wasn’t bad right.

00:22:46

Was it easy. Yeah. But it’s something that you need to do. But it was a bad. Yeah. You do owe it to your kid.

00:22:53

I do because you know after what you went to a cancer patient you know you have an oncologist and you see your oncologist you know fairly frequently and you know I’ve had my oncologist and several other doctors tell me that you know I’m lucky to be alive because by the time I would’ve had symptoms it probably would have been too late. Mm hmm. And by the time if I would have waited until I was 50 to have that baseline call endoscopy that was five years and my oncologist said Heather you had five years to live that three and a half years ago.

00:23:27

Wow. Crazy right. That is crazy and you’re so very lucky that you had good insurance. Yeah absolutely. I had a great doctor that was you know pushing you. My brother passed away when he was forty five from an aneurysm and he was you know the picture of health never went to the doctors and feel like he needed to. Yeah. But he had high blood pressure that no one knew about. So of course that gives me a high risk because it’s a it’s a genetic trait that can you know be in families so I had to go and have this CTA a scan of all of my arteries. My insurance didn’t pay for it. Well it was I think twelve hundred dollars. Wow. And luckily I’m able to do that but someone that doesn’t have less resources the insurance companies really make it so hard to get yourself to give yourself permission to get yourself to the doctor to have good health care.

00:24:21

Well I mean this I have to be a little careful about what I talk about when it comes to insurance because that’s the industry that my husband. Oh OK.

00:24:30

But I can tell you that there’s a there’s enough responsibility to go around. Is there. Yeah. There is.

00:24:44

And I think that’s important for people to know too because there is sort of this there is this opinion that we are all the victims.

00:24:53

Yeah right right. Right.

00:24:54

And you know the big bad you know you know insurers. But listen it’s a big affordable health care is a big problem. Yes for sure for sure. Because now I know that I carry a gene that is under it’s an under diagnosed gene.

00:25:14

It used to be considered rare it’s not really considered rarity more called Lynch syndrome or like one in two hundred and seventeen. Don’t quote me on that but something around that one in two hundred seventeen people have this gene and they don’t know it. Wow. And it really starts with the cancer that you were at the highest risk for is colon cancer and you know check that off my done. Lucky you. Skin cancer is another one.

00:25:39

Check that.

00:25:40

Had that had a complete and total hysterectomy so that I wouldn’t get that answer. Three months after I had my colon taken out and now I I do the other cancers that I’m at a higher risk for are kidney pancreatic brain cancer and kind of anything that they’ve just added breast cancer to that. And then in last year I had bile duct cancer. And you know that was a thing I didn’t either. But so it’s like oh I was been so focused on my pancreas that my kidneys. Because those are fun cancers to have.

00:26:15

Not only that but I can’t think of any jokes but jokes are hilarious kiddie jokes I don’t have any kidney cancer I don’t have any jokes about that because that’s on a very funny organ. But yeah.

00:26:26

So last August I had filed that just a little bit of bile duct cancer and had six had to have six procedures to get. Wow to be done with that. And it wasn’t a big deal it was all done. You know endoscopic Lee but it’s six times I have to be put under yeah and six times I have to you know thinking about prepared for. Yeah. Between August didn’t end January of this year. So I definitely know that my how long I live is directly related to how good my health care is. Yes. Yeah for sure. And that is that’s a sobering point. Yeah. Just knowing that is tumbling. It’s sobering. And it’s something that you know I hope to get more involved in than you know helping people get have access to.

00:27:21

Sure. And do you feel like it’s something that also has made you re-evaluate life and live in the moment.

00:27:29

Well I’ve lived a little bit too much in the moment. Yeah I read I definitely I just I don’t know which came first the diagnosis or my midlife crisis. You know I read I think it all happened at the same time. So I don’t know which one was which.

00:27:44

But yeah it definitely made me take on this this this mantra of life’s short eat the cupcake. And then you know three years later I’m still eating the cupcake. I’m like I got to quit eat the cupcake.

00:27:58

You know it’s kind of like I was when I was pregnant. Oh I’m eating for two. Yeah keep doing that for five years.

00:28:04

Exactly. Because at the heart have a deep breath you know that. Yeah I mean and also I kind of.

00:28:12

Had this mantra of I’m not doing anything that sucks because going to all these screenings and tests and blah blah MRI C.T. scan that added the part time job for me and so on like some day is my day to day sex so I’m not going to go. Should I run that back. Yeah. You know can’t I probably am I gonna. Absolutely not. Because why I’m not doing anything that’s not right. And there’s cupcakes for there cupcakes right there. And I so I sort of had to figure out the balance right. I had to figure out the What Works for me. And finally I was like You know what.

00:28:52

I had an aha moment and I said wow you know I I can live another 20 years with this I could live two years with that.

00:29:02

I don’t know. You know no one none of us now. Right. Right. But but I have something on paper that says I really don’t now. And that’s a weird that’s a really weird place to be. And I was like You know what if I live the next 20 years as though life’s short I’m probably going to die from cancer and then I don’t I’m to be really mad.

00:29:23

Like I’m going to be like Really. Oh that’s 20 years was OK. It’s 20 after the cupcake that I should not be having. Right. So so it’s kind of. This year with sort of my year to be like OK.

00:29:40

So far so good. Yeah. Let’s keep our head screwed on straight. Let’s you know let’s let’s think about this a little differently right. So now you know I’m I’m doing you know I’m making more disciplined choices. OK. Let’s just call it Tell it that.

00:29:59

I’m still having fun. Yeah you absolutely can.

00:30:02

You can run the marathon or the 5 K Or around the block but you don’t have to do it every day. You don’t even have to do it every year.

00:30:08

I don’t know you have to do it so hard that I don’t want to do it tomorrow. Right. You know to do anything like that now and I could not I cannot do the marathon not know I never could.

00:30:17

Now I know someone who does the Iron Man.

00:30:20

Yeah. Now. Oh God. Now to that falls under I don’t need to do anything that sucks.

00:30:26

I don’t care what your mindset is

00:30:29

So that’s going to suck. I don’t care how disciplined and trained you are. That is going to suck. Yeah.

00:30:35

Yeah I get that I don’t get that but I think that it’s really great that you’re setting this example for your son. Now I know a lot of the things that I went through I feel like you know I showed my ass to my kids sometimes I would be going through terrible things you know we had teenagers I had a hard time in my marriage and I had five kids and you know all of these things going on at once and I was not always the best to them. They saw me cry. They saw my good times and they saw how I either handled it poorly or how I did handle it and I was honest about the good and the bad. And I’m hoping that they are going to be better people for it. So do you feel like in a weird way this is good for your son to see. I do. How you cope.

00:31:21

I absolutely do. I think that it’s important. Again my son’s 10 and I was just telling you before we get started I remember a moment when my son was much younger and I don’t know he was being he and I are very similar like he looks just like my husband.

00:31:41

But when he opens up his mouth he’s all me and because I’m home with them it’s like we are like this like we are so close like oddly connected like we know what the other person is thinking. But we also butt heads all the time.

00:31:53

Yeah that sounds like me and my son. So you get up and I say he’s my difficult child. He’s my only child.

00:32:02

So he’s like my father he’s my sweet one. He’s smart. What is my difficult you know but at the end of the day it’s because we’re very much alike.

00:32:10

And you know one day I don’t know he was just really giving me a hard time about something and I just finally I looked at him and I said you know read Mommy’s get their feelings hurt too. And even in his little I don’t know first second grade brain it was like a moment. He was like it was like an illuminating moment for him. He was like Really. You know I never thought about that because they don’t see us as people. Right.

00:32:35

And I think that yeah they need to see us they need to see that things are hard and they need to see that people are can be resilient. They need to see that mommies have bad days and that but that we work through it and that we come out on the other side of it because I have definitely known people that don’t show their flaws to their children or show or share their challenges.

00:33:10

Everything is has to be appropriate. Right and right. And that’s for you. That’s for you to decide. But as far as so far as my diagnosis goes I. So this gene that I have my son could have it. He has a 50 50 chance of having it and we’re very honest about that and we’re very honest about. I have to have another procedure and you know what’s gonna happen and what are they looking for and how am I you know and what’s the diagnosis and what’s the prognosis. But you know he also sees us in our my husband and I and our marriage have a fight bigger. No.

00:33:56

He read has heard me say a swear word a time or two.

00:34:00

You know he has seen me lose my mind over something and. And I think that I. I do believe that down the road he’s gonna be like oh yeah my momma.

00:34:16

Listen they’re all gonna end up in therapy and I think they’re all gonna end up in therapy.

00:34:22

You’re just it’s just pick your poison and what I know. I think my my kid’s story is gonna be Oh my parents left all the time and they told me I could be anything and they provided me with all my basic needs and most of what I wanted but in a realistic kind of way.

00:34:39

You know I am the therapist is going to be like Okay move on. It really doesn’t make you feel.

00:34:47

And of course in my house we handle most things with laughter.

00:34:56

That’s what saves people’s lives don’t you.

00:34:59

That is how we really and we know not everything else.

00:35:03

Well we get that. But our go to is to just take you know take a take a step back. Oh my God what did he say to me the other day and it was so funny.

00:35:18

Oh. He said. I.

00:35:23

So I have depression anxiety. I mean what do you know what. Don’t you know I’ve been treated for that for four years. You ask what comic slash mom slash human being you know exactly. And so some days you know some days my medication’s working better than others you know and some days I’m on top of my game and some days I’m not. And then you throw in my hormones or have left the building and then you throw in you know this diagnosis that I have and I never know like what’s driving it. That doesn’t matter. I have ups and I have downs and some days I’m really moody and one day I picked up my son and I was and I was really moody and he is obsessed with these strange but true books ok like crazy fun facts about you know whatever. You know it would take you know I don’t know how many golf balls to fill up the state of Rhode Island and then you know I kind of Soviet ad if you put fifty thousand on an ad together you get a whatever whatever and he because we’re weird oddly connected. He knew I was having one of my days. Right. And he goes Wow I guess it’s true what I read in my weird but true book that statistically speaking most people are cranky on a Thursday. And it was a Thursday and I like them and I go wow read bold move pointing that out to somebody who’s cranky on a Thursday.

00:36:56

And real bold move and he says Yeah I know that really could’ve gone either way. And he’s 10 years old. Oh my gosh.

00:37:04

A bold move bold you know. I’m surprised that he says I’m surprised I’m still stay a day you know that’s awesome. We just you know and then we laugh you know we laughed about it and I’m still cranky but.

00:37:17

But instead of like flipping out over a year ago or whenever we just Yeah we he knows how to kind of yeah.

00:37:26

He gets me. Yeah. He knows he knows how to kind of turn it around. Yeah that’s great.

00:37:30

He gets me for sure.

00:37:32

But I think that’s one of the beauties of having just that one child easier good child your bad child. All I ever know because I have I have an only child. Yes I have five kids and my older four saw the absolute crazy in me and I wasn’t able to be able to do that because I’d have you know two going into the swimming pool at the same time an opposite direction right. I’m a teenager and a middle schooler. And it was just crazy. So no way to really relate to that.

00:38:01

Well I have the luxury of a lot of downtime. Yeah.

00:38:06

Meaning that he gets our undivided attention.

00:38:12

Either it is the two of us or it is he and his father or it is the three of us. But yeah he’s like that with our young. Yeah. Gets a lot of I mean I always say for anybody who wants to say that only children ended it at.

00:38:28

We have nothing better to do but to be all up in his business.

00:38:32

So we are very hard on him and that’s OK for sure. If we hold him to a very high standard for sure. But we also have a lot of fun.

00:38:43

Yes you have. It’s a great opportunity to have just that one kid.

00:38:46

It is it is and I hope that what we’re teaching him as well as I mean my husband and I are madly in love but they are we are we are almost 19 years that we’ve been together almost 23 years. And we have been together all of my husband’s adult life. Wow. And did you rob the cradle. I did. I did I am the original cougar. I am. He’s five years younger than I am. I know. I know. What was I thinking. And on paper we should not work right. But we totally worked with my husband and I until they were we totally work. And I’m I hope that our son is also seeing a marriage where we’re partners. Where I don’t think he’ll I don’t think he would describe me as a stay at home mom. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but I think he would just say no my mom was always doing something know I think he thinks of me as a as a as a comic. I think he thinks that my job is being a standup comic. But also he sees this deal with each other with respect with a lot of love a lot of laughs because laughter is a life skill. It’s so important it diffuses situations it build self esteem. And sometimes I go and talk to third graders about what’s funny and what’s not funny. I like let funny is making somebody feel good about themselves when they leave your presence. Yeah it’s not you don’t get to just say anything you want and then say I’m just joking right.

00:40:28

Yeah. Making fun of them and going Oh yeah I’m just kidding.

00:40:32

You know that’s not funny.

00:40:34

No that’s not humor.

00:40:35

That’s a really good differentiation for you to make for them because if they don’t have that example at home I know that right. And you know innately.

00:40:43

Right. I know that. Yeah. And so. So I hope that my son is is learning how to be kind compassionate how to relate to people and how to use humor as a life skill because God knows it has gotten me through you know this stuff that I go that my diagnosis and my continued diagnosis.

00:41:07

Yeah. And I’m so lucky I have a platform in which to share all that. Yes. That is resonating with others right.

00:41:13

That that is the amazing thing. So you’re doing this for yourself for your son for your husband and you’re giving so much to the people that see you on stage or hear you on a podcast or probably even run into you at the grocery store.

00:41:27

Yeah. Pretty much what you see on stage is who I am in my life.

00:41:31

And that’s just amazing that’s so genuine. And people really get a lot from that thing. So what’s coming up next for you. Do you have more shows going on. Do you have any ventures coming up.

00:41:44

Well I do so every month.

00:41:48

I just had one last night

00:41:51

I do a show called laugh lines and stretch marks. That is my baby. That is my brand. That is my everything.

00:42:01

That’s my life every day.

00:42:02

It is at Mad Life. Here in Georgia. That’s my home theater is that my life stages studios and Woodstock and it is mostly an all female lineup of comics women from diverse backgrounds with diverse stories to tell and so it’s comedy for moms women and couples. It is been I’ve been doing that for a little over a year now and it has been a wildly popular show.

00:42:30

I tried to get there last night but because I’m a mom my dog chewed up my kid’s shoe that’s not OK.

00:42:37

No. So what am I going to do. I got to go buy my kid some shoes and I didn’t get to go.

00:42:43

Well luckily for you we do this every Monday and it is such a great show. And so I am I mean I perform all over the place and I have another show that I run every week in Roswell at the Gaslight. If anybody is in Roswell Georgia area they do that every Wednesday but then I get booked to do other people’s shows. But really my baby is left like to stretch marks and I am really just working on putting that together as a package to take it on tour. How awesome that I can bring my mom calm to other suburbs.

00:43:22

Oh I would love that. Well if you do get to that point I will definitely put it all out there to all of my followers and all of my people because I that’s so exciting.

00:43:31

Yeah I’m very excited about it. Super excited about it.

00:43:34

Yeah. They are awesome. Well I really really appreciate you coming here and talking to me and I know when I first saw you I wanted you to be on the show and I really wanted you to be my friend so I hope this will be friends.

00:43:47

Of course. Thank you so much for having me. What a fun time. Thank you.

00:44:01

Did you like this podcast so far. Please continue following along by tapping the subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. If you really liked it go on be awesome and leave a rating and a review. Find me on all social media too by searching Sheryl with an S. Parbhoo . That’s p a r b h o o. Thanks for listening to Southern life Indian Wife.

The post Musings of a “momedian” with comedian and cancer survivor Heather Tolley-Bauer appeared first on Sheryl Parbhoo.