Over some 4 years from about 1998 to 2002 I spent much of my time investigating Texas connections to the Kennedy assassination. During that period, I explored both the Estes and Baker scandals in regard to the possibility they had connected LBJ to a conspiracy against JFK. I received information and introductions to individuals who were tightly focused on Johnson’s guilt – including information which had come out from Billy Sol Estes as early as 1984, when his Grand Jury involvement had led to legal papers being filed maintaining that he could provide tapes implicating Johnson.

My own research ranged on from the Estes scandals and associated murders, to the Baker scandal and in particular to certain highly suspicious activities of Johnson. That included JFK’s Dallas appearance, in which Johnson’s associates Cliff Carter and Jack Puterbaugh had been involved in of logistics and political activities. Both men had been responsible for certain arrangements for JFK’s appearance in Dallas, and with his motorcade.

In reviewing Secret Service interviews (SA Lawson) of the Dallas trip planning, I was surprised to find that the Secret Service trip lead himself often referred to certain decisions having come from Puterbaugh (an Agriculture Department employee working as Democratic National Committee political liaison for the trip, reporting to Cliff Carter).  It seemed that Dallas officials, including law enforcement, had even felt that Puterbaugh was himself Secret Service.

Ultimately, in Someone Would Have Talked, I explored Carter and Puterbaugh’s activities in some detail and focused on a scenario as to how Johnson might have been given foreknowledge and recruited to cover any elements of conspiracy relating to an action against JFK.  I spend some three chapters exploring that in the book, including Johnson (and Cliff Carters) very active role in immediately suppressing any leads which did not solely involve Lee Harvey Oswald.

Because of that background, when word recently emerged about an Estes/Carter tape, which I had heard about from others as well as Estes himself, I immediately reached out to Estes’ grandson and he was good enough to join me on a show with Chuck Ochelli – even playing more of the tape than had previously been aired. 

I think most of  you will find the show of interest and you can listen to it here https://www.spreaker.com/episode/the-ochelli-effect-2-11-2025-larry-hancock-shane-stevens–64342112