message 1:
by
Eden
(new)
May 24, 2013 12:04AM
I'm sorry this has happened to you. I hope you get some answers. They shouldn't be able to do this.
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Ms. wrote: "I think that it's a serious discrimination against books. Adults know what they want to read, or what they need. Period. And I don't think books or their authors should be "discriminated" this way...."I got a canned reply yesterday about 'rankings being related to other book sales, not overall sales', but that's clearly not relevant. I'm waiting to hear back from them a second time now, but it's out of business hours there.
The other thing is it's so incredibly hypocritical. Nook has Fifty Shades of Grey on their front page. It's literally the first thing you see when you open the site. But apparently other erotic books are somehow different.
So sorry and disappointed to read this. I own a nook and have been very loyal to Barnes and Nobles. This makes me question why I would want to align myself with them.
Barnes and Noble are angels compared to NOOK UK! They've deleted almost all my erotic romance novels from their catalogue. :(They do have your second book listed, but not your first.
Barnes and Noble Has been dishonest in so many different ways I am so sorry that you are being treated in such a unfair manner. When I had purchased my nook I was told incorrect information and contacted them them and I received one return message since Nov. 2012 They said they would I would receive a call within 48 hours to correct the issue and never heard from them I called and messaged they do not seem to care about the people that keep there business going I wish I had never dealt with them. I wanted a reader (kindle) so bad and I live in a area you couldn't get one but threw the mail Walmart only carried the nook so that's what I got. They truly are disappointing and I cant afford another. Sorry I get upset when I hear more bad things about Barnes and Noble! I hope more people scream from the roof tops about whats going on with you that is wrong on so many levels I don't think they realize in the end they need us readers and writers! Good Luck sorry for my rant!
Ugh, this is frustrating. I've always been a huge supporter of theirs but it seems like they are caving to pressure from a smaller faction of fans who don't want to see those books pop up. Really disappointing
I like B&N but this is ridiculous. We don't need a company telling us what to read. If they want to make sure younger readers aren't getting in over their heads, require warnings about content(most authors do this anyway). And for those that don't like erotica research the author before buying!
This is awful and I am glad that I have never let "best seller" lists and other such things judge what I read. I know that there are many people that depend on those lists to help them discover new authors and books and for that they should be an unbiased resource. Unfortunately in the world we live in no one lets that happen. The best we can do is try to support each other and tell these businesses that think they can manipulate us to kiss our lovely dollars goodbye. I do not shop at b&n and have not for a long time. I will search out other booksellers to purchase my books.
Yeah, B&N has been practicing nasty little habits like this for a while. I'm really sorry to hear you're going through this, Maya. Last summer several of my books were on the verge of hitting the top 100 over there until they were slapped with a thousand rankings, knocking them back to 1121. They climbed back to just outside the top 100 and then were slapped with five thousand ranking points knocking them back to 5106. It destroyed my visibility and it didn't seem to matter after that how many copies of these books that I sold, they weren't able to move past the 5k mark.It's so disheartening to see things like this happen. It's not fair on the author or the reader. It feels like we're all being treated like children, getting slapped on the wrist when we write/read something "they" deem inappropriate.
This seems really stupid. Do they not get they are losing sales? We are the ones who purchase the books!!! If we can't find them we don't buy them. I guess they don't mind giving the business away.
I know from blogging with another author that B&N has had some computer problems as of late. When her books, police procedurals, got slapped with weird rankings, she did get ahold of them and that is what they told her. But, this seems to be a lot more insidious than glitches in the computer programming. Don't they realize that they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this? They are already in a precarious position financially with the brick and mortar stores which means they really should be courting all authors who are making good money for them no matter the genre.
I found something very similar when my Blood & Dreams Sons of Navarus Box Set began climbing at B&N in the first week of this month. I was continually selling, but I could never get past that mark right around 120. Interesting.
I'm really apppalled to hear about this Maya - I hope they explain their bizarre policies. I hate to think that a bookseller can be so judgemental about books in this way - they should, always, allow the readers to have their say with their hard-earned dollar!
I'm getting some of my datahead friends to chime in. I'll let you know how it goes.But please don't take out the torches and pitchforks until we have more information.
Wow, I hate to hear about this. My fingers are crossed that it resolves quickly and to your satisfaction!
Crazy stuff, but I can believe it! It makes you wonder,though, if they are the only ones who do this...
Thanks so much for bringing attention to this, Maya! It's sickening that Barnes & Noble doesn't trust their customers to make informed choices about the books they purchase. It shows a complete lack of faith in their customers. I have emailed them and I will update you all when/if I receive a response.
That is horrible and I am so glad I have a Kindle and dont' buy many books from Barnes and Noble anymore. I don't care if you dont' like what the book is about but if people are buying them the author deserves the credit for that.
I really hate this is happening to you guys. You're right about it being a double standard when the are advertising 50 Shades on the front page in a bundle. It makes me ashamed to have a Nook. (Mine was a gift.) It is also more difficult to find romance books on Nook. Amazon has so many that I would like to read but can't because they aren't available. As a retailer I don't got to B&N at all. Just for my Nook. It is the readers choice what to read and what not to read. They have no right to censor authors.
BN tends to have conservative and elitist leanings, and, unfortunately, this doesn't surprise me in the least. I am SO sorry this is happening to all of you affected!!
Mimi, that's what I thought when it happened to Relentless last month, which is why I didn't put a content warning on Pieces of You this time around. I figure, if you've read Relentless, you know what you're getting yourself into with Pieces of You. Unfortunately, leaving the warning out of the description didn't stop B&N from blocking Pieces of You, so I don't think that's it.
I'd like to see # of books sold in last hour, last day, last month, ever instead of bestseller list. That would hopefully take away the sellers ability to pull stupid stunts like this and as a reader and future author I'd love to have those numbers readily available... May they stop being stupid and let the lists reflect reality.
Thanks so much for posting about this. I've been looking for other authors that have experienced this on B & N as I've had the same thing happen to me. I released The Billionaire's Obsession (an erotic romance) about a month ago to B & N. I was selling well over a thousand copies a day and sitting at #6 on their list. A day or two later I was having my best day ever...and suddenly...I dropped to #126 and stayed there. The exact same thing happened to the second book in the series, except that one landed at #127 as I guess they needed the #126 number for the first book. They have not answered any of the numerous emails I've sent, nor will their supposed live help (which I think is actually computer generated) address the ranking issue at all. I've lost all respect for B & N and I would not doubt they are desperate enough to also skim sales numbers. If they fix their list, how do I trust that they are reporting and paying accurate sales numbers? The Billionaire's Obsession made the USA Today Bestseller List because of Amazon and ITunes and has remained on the list because of those two vendors.
I'm not sure if B & N is dumping indies because they don't want them on the list or because they are selling those spots to publishers and need to dump them to make space, but the whole situation is disheartening. Do they think this doesn't have a negative impact on them? They complain about losses every quarter, but they aren't looking at the big picture. I was a very good B & N customer. But I'll never buy another product or book from them now, nor will any of my friends because of this dishonest behavior.
So...are they manipulating their list? Oh, heck yeah. I guarantee it. I'm so glad authors are talking about the issue. I just wish it didn't happen at all!
This what upset me when Boarders went out of business. I've known this about B&N for years. a few years ago, I met a women who had a best selling book about witchcraft and it was banned from B&N due to an uprising of conservative groups. I actually stopped shopping at B&N when this happened. I'll support you if you wan't to petition. Someone has to represent our side and the side of freedom of speech. Should we sign a petition, start a campaign? What's the plan?
Yes, J.S., I see your boxed set sitting right there along with us. I have a bad feeling that they are censoring titles from independent authors that customers have complained about. It's odd because Relentless was in the top 20 at B&N for over a week. Once I raised the price and it started to slide down the rankings, B&N contacted ME to see if they could feature it in their romance newsletter. It seems I went from the good list to the naughty list within the last two months without any idea how I got there.
Are they just putting the rankings all together, brick & mortar/online? Maybe they realized that this genre of books has been done a million times over and that all your books are the same story with the names changed. And that you should move on from written porn, that creates unrealistic expectations of men.
Eli wrote: "Maybe they realized that this genre of books has been done a million times over and that all your books are the same story ..."Wow. Just wow. That's your comment to obvious discrimination against these authors? That they deserve it?
I suppose spy thrillers, murder mysteries, coming of age etc are genres just chocked full of completely unrelated plots that have never been done before?
Jessie: This person created a Goodreads account just to comment. This is an obvious troll. Do not indulge them.
Cassia wrote: "Jessie: This person created a Goodreads account just to comment. This is an obvious troll. Do not indulge them."You're right. Couldn't help myself for a moment. Sounded a little too much like the "well she deserved it if she was going to go out dressed in such a short skirt" argument. I will never understand some people.
To everyone who comment; thank you!A little update. B&N are being totally non communicative. I also had my distributor, Draft2Digital, trying to find out answers, but they are also being ignored. Clearly this is a case of 'sweep it under the rug and maybe everyone will forget about it,' which obviously makes my blood boil. If there is a policy like this in place, we deserve some clarity and consistency, so at least acknowledge its existence.
Since Hugh posted this, other authors have come out citing exactly the same thing (including a couple that posted here); an invisible wall at the number #125. One of those that replied on Hugh's wall was Blake Crouch who writes dark thrillers/horror. So this isn't confined to just sexy books, although those seem to get the majority of the attention.
I also had a discussion with another author, who I'll leave nameless for now, who think this impacted her newest book hitting the New York Times Bestseller list. That's another important factor to consider. I'm not sure how places like the Times work out those lists, but if sales rank is used to calculate them, then this can potentially be an even bigger thorn in indie writers' sides.
I'm not done hassling them yet. There are other blog posts by other authors coming, and I will continue to send emails and call people until they acknowledge something is up.
Thank you all for your support so far.
Maya, this may affect Pieces of You hitting the NYT list in the coming week. I can attest to that considering I know exactly how many books I sold when Relentless was allowed to hit the top 20 on B&N and how many I'm selling now that Pieces of You is not being allowed past #125. I'm hoping my Amazon and iTunes sales are enough, but I'm not going to count on it. This is pretty devastating.
A few cogent points:1) You might want to hold off throwing B&N under the bus, as Amazon has recently been accused of the exact same thing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec...
2) This won't affect NYT status because the Times doesn't track every book sold in the U.S. They use a system similar to Nielsen in which they go by sales from a select number of bookstores as a sample to gauge sales. (I know this because I was approved as a NYT reporting store when I owned an indie several years ago.) Thus, this issue won't have an impact on other rankings.
3) The books are still being sold. The major effect this has on writers is with discoverability, especially for those self-published or from tiny publishers. I acknowledge that it is a problem—if it's true (innocent before proven guilty and all that). Reader feedback can be effective in changing corporate policy, but it's probably best to hold off on the pitchforks and torches until there's more than just anecdotal evidence.
If someone does a somewhat more scientific poll of a variety of writers in the affected genres and comes back with more than circumstantial evidence, then get vocal with B&N—just leave the pitchforks and torches behind, and confront them with reason and evidence. So much more effective in the longrun. And better for everyone's blood pressure.
Cassia...I so hope what happened with B & N doesn't hurt your chances with NYT. You have been ranking so well on Amazon. Obviously the rankings will affect the numbers for B & N, and it definitely will be a factor for the lists for that reason. But I'll be cheering for you to make it. : ) I so feel everyone's pain that is going through this now. I was devastated when it happened to me.
Michelle:I appreciate your post, but, as an author who has had two books affected by this, this is not anecdotal evidence to me. I see the numbers in my B&N sales reports. My book Relentless and Maya's book LOCKOUT were both in the B&N top 20, so we are both aware of the number of book sales it takes to get there. I will gladly provide my sales reports to anyone who requires proof.
And, yes, B&N is included in the bookstores that reports sales for the NYT list. Not sure what kind of argument you were trying to make there.
Discoverability is a huge factor for indie authors because most of us don't have huge marketing budgets and we can't get our books placed on the front table in bookstores. We rely on the accuracy of those bestsellers list for customers to find us.
Thank you, J.S. I hope this doesn't affect my chances, but from what I've heard, it's very difficult to make the list without B&N.
Michelle wrote: "A few cogent points:1) You might want to hold off throwing B&N under the bus, as Amazon has recently been accused of the exact same thing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetec......"
I agree that the Amazon policy is concerning, but there is one key difference; they acknowledge that there is a policy. They could be more transparent about what criteria they use, but if you email them, they reply and tell you what has happened. B&N are ignoring this issue all together. They refuse to acknowledge what they're doing.
Secondly, it appears this may be more than just censoring erotic content. Other authors who write cleaner romances, and even horror or thrillers, have come out and said they have hit this exact wall. The only thing everyone seems to have in common is that they are self published. If that's the case, it completely undermines the entire premise of Nook Press.
With regards to raising pitchforks, these discussions have been incredibly beneficial in doing just what you suggested; getting authors to band together and pool data. I can now list ten or more authors, some of whom are very big self published names, who have experienced this exact issue. Many didn't even understand what had happened until now. The manipulation appears to be quite subtle, and it probably would have continued to go unnoticed unless it was brought out into the light. My understanding of what's going on has been built piece by piece as more authors come out with their part of the story.
I'd love to talk to other affected authors and pool stats and screenshots. As Cassia said, this isn't just anecdotal evidence. Multiple people have screenshots of their titles hitting a wall at exactly the same place, and they have sales figures to show the disparity.















