Fairy Tale Finesse > Likes and Comments

All right. I'm here with a pick axe, and quite prepared to get to work mining through your skull. Why, you might ask? For the gold inside, of course! Didn't know it was in there, did you. Remember, one man's trash is another man's treasure. You, yes you, inside your head is my treasure. And I'm coming for it.

You want to read a fairy tale. You type in a search and you get a page full of books. What catches the fairy tale eye? What is it that you see or read that grabs you by the ears and shakes your head? The meal itself may disappoint, but something about that menu item made you salivate. What is it? Tell me! ... (you're going to keep it to yourself, aren't you,you scoundrel.)

Well, tbh, if it's a retelling of one of my favorite tales, I will probably give it a shot. Unless the blurb reveals that it's going to be dark, thrilling, intense... I like more cheerful stories, myself.

I like all kinds of fairy tales, whether it's a straight retelling, or turned upside down, or inside out.

I also like stories that are fairy tale like, but not a direct decedent. Those are stories that use tropes, images, themes from fairy tales.

I recently read Cassandra Khaw's recent book The Salt Grows Heavy and thought it fit the dark fairy tale category.

So far we've got the junkies in here, waking up in the morning and snorting at the carpet after a wild party, hoping to get a hit from some spilled coke. Fairy Tales are apparently addictive. One likes uppers, and the other downers. Pretty good start.

Cassandra there is cooking at about 10 books a year. She's keeping you well supplied. She's in a trench coat, standing at the school gates. She's giving out candy from the back of an unmarked, white bread van.

From you two I'd better ask a different question. Are there tropes you happen across unhappily? Maybe step mothers shouldn't be portrayed wicked? Or you have sympathy for wolves, think them noble, and hate to read them run down as unfeeling monsters? What turns you off?

I think the main thing for me is to avoid cliche and the obvious. I will not be reading any of the ten million Circe-a-likes now unless someone says to me- hey, this actually has an original take! And in terms of characterisations some complexity! Wicked stepmothers generally boring, saintly suffering stepmothers boring, stepmother/female character with some ambivalence, witchy ability and sark- might have me reading (e.g Now she is Witch's Lux, Granny Weatherwax, Helen Oyeyemi's Mary Fox ).

Jeopardy! In the opening of this famous novel, the author states (something like) "all happy families are the same. Each unhappy family is unhappy in its own unique way."

That's why I prefer wicked to good. There's more variety. And to be good, you must be good all the time. Think of the way we portray murderers - never as relatable. S/he may have been good every other second of life, and only bad as the trigger is pulled, or the knife plunged. Yet bad forever more we will see them.

Can the female characters in fairy tales be both the protagonist and morally flexible?

How about nobody's perfect, but we strive to be? I think that's the most interesting. What can we do, how can we do it, how can we learn from our mistakes?

And just because Tolstoy said something catchy in AK does not mean it's true.

Two points for Cheryl! Catchy is what you need if you want the reader to continue to the next page. Catchy has served well, from Confucius to Mark Twain.

Do you read for entertainment? Educational purposes? Moral grounding? A mixture of many reasons? All of the above for me. I'm looking for a broadened world view. I'm looking for a fresh idea. An angle I've not previously considered. An issue I want to, maybe not resolve but play with from within the narrow confines of my own mind.

Sometimes a catchy sentence, much like the one from AK, sticks with me for life. A concept I can roll around on my tongue for the taste. A flavour, a spice, an exotic bill of fare. I feel a connection with these authors because I've read their work. I'm transported in time and place, and what do I find? Men and women much like myself, no matter the culture or era, facing problems similar to my own. A bond with them from beyond the grave, a succor that I am not alone in my troubles, that many have walked the path before me, and that I can lean on them and their ideas to help me muddle through. I love reading, I love the feelings and thoughts that come from it, and I love that I feel a kinship with the men and women that have come before.

I want Truth. But of course we don't agree on what that might entail. I repeat that I do not believe that the quote from AK spoke Truth. Ymmv.

Yes, some modern retellings of fairy tales, and original ones, speak grand Truths, despite the fantastic trappings. But it's difficult for authors to pull off.

Are you fishing for ideas because you want to write a story? If so, I bet there's a folder for authors in this group. In any case, candor would be appreciated.

I'm just me. I'm not hiding anything. Should I be introducing myself explicitly in every conversation in which I engage? And I'm not asking this maliciously, or with any bad intent, I would like to know. I'm fine saying who I am, but I'm nobody so why would anybody care? Now I have to though.

I wrote in my first post that I have implements in hand to dig into your minds for the gold, for insight into how you choose books. My name is Conor Killian, I write under the pen name Count Fathom, I'm a new indie author, and I've recently published a series of classic fairy tales.

I'm pursuing various avenues of promotion, but what I've been doing lately on goodreads is not necessarily that. I need practice communicating with people, I haven't done so in this way for a very long time. I like the practice, so I write socially here, when I have a moment. And I'm full of brazen opinions, none of witch I'm married to. The people I write with tend to like it when I immediately see the sense of their position and adopt it. I enjoy that opinion just as much as my previous one.

The AK quote about unhappy families. It's a bon mot, in my opinion. Trite, cute, engaging, playful. But truth? Can our words even express that? Plato had a hard time, I'll enjoy leaping from one imaginative interpretation to another, trying to find the expression of the mind in all its many forms, and if in the end they are only bon mot, then so be it.

If for a month or a year you have to put up with me, think of it as eating your vegetables. The last time I was on these kind of boards, I enjoyed long form communication. I always appreciated the effort. And I imagine for goodreads, they like anything that drives traffic. I'm happy to find you good folks around here. Have a pleasant day. I'll go hide in shame.

*You thought I spelled which wrong, didn't you?

Ok, thank you for clarifying. And no, I figured you meant witch. Because that's how cleverly you strive to write. All is well!

Count wrote: "Jeopardy! In the opening of this famous novel, the author states (something like) "all happy families are the same. Each unhappy family is unhappy in its own unique way."

That's why I prefer wick..."

Hmm, not sure I agree- I think the best literature is full of 'good' characters or characters that are sympathetic, who behave in flawed ways- Middlemarch being a prime example. Or more on topic for this board, writers like Jo Walton, Helen Oyeyemi, Susanna Clarke, Terry Pratchett absolutely nail this. And equally literature is full of relatable murderers who are given humanity with the quality of the writing, I would argue not even murderers in real life are seen as unqualified in their 'evil' by a significant portion of people. In my view, of course female characters can be the protagonist and morally flexible! They are most likely just very badly written if they are one dimensional. Angela Carter pulls this off fantastically in fairy tales, as does another Angela- Angela Slatter- in her short stories.

In terms of modern fairy tales, of course there is an argument for 'flat' characterisations as per the original tales. But your writing and world building is going to have to be absolutely exceptional to pull this off, in my view.

Oh, and for the wolves are noble trope...I really would recommend a read of Catherynne M. Valente's essay 'Why not moose?' for a fairly hilarious take-down of this.

Cheryl wrote: "How about nobody's perfect, but we strive to be? I think that's the most interesting. What can we do, how can we do it, how can we learn from our mistakes?

And just because Tolstoy said something ..."

Ha, agreed! Speaking as a family therapist...

I pretty much agree with what Rose and Cheryl say.

I'm looking for interesting takes on fairytales, something unique, something that gives new life to the original, or subverts themes from originals, or really interesting blends that have a fairytale feel. I prefer rich characters vs. flat, though I've read some good books that keep the flat characterizations of the originals.

I often reread authors I love. I'm trying to think of what hooks me on a fairytale book by a new-to-me author. Often the summary mentions it subverts a fairytale or themes, or includes a unique folklore I'm unfamiliar with, or is diverse in some way I find interesting. Almost always it is feminist in some way. It's either fantasy or historical or sci-fi, since I don't typically read romance. (I have no issues with romance, and I'm actually just fine with it as a major plot point, I just tend not to enjoy straight romances as much. A me thing, not a commentary on the genre.)

I don't really care if characters are nice or mean, likeable or unlikeable, as long as they're complex and interesting. I never really think about whether or not I "like" a character. That's not the point for me.

Ooh! You sparked my interest right away. You never really think about whether or not you like a character. I do tend to pass judgment on them, and sometimes I'm wrong. I grow attached to them. I'd like their story arc to be more prominent for the ones I hold the candle. I suppose I hate read other characters. Maybe I like those too, in a different way. I ponder whether I'd want them sitting across the table from me. Or the the author for that matter, I'm not indifferent to their fortunes. All of that includes like, doesn't it?

As for the feminist perspective, I like them like this, " strong, fearless, and willful, on a drunken moral sleigh, speeding recklessly downhill in a bout of cheerful play."

What tempts me to sample a fairy tale? Like others on this thread, something unique. A twisted trope, a tale rarely retold, or a fresh setting--and I much prefer historical realism tinged with magic. I rarely read contemporary retellings or sci fi.

Once tempted, I sample. Always. I've stopped reading more fairy tale retellings than I've finished.

Above all, I look for delicious writing that I can revisit, even if only a page or two, at lunch or on a coffee break. (In all genres, I'm an inveterate rereader.)

I gravitate toward coming-of-age tropes, and usually they come with a romance thread. I enjoy those kinds of romance, but I don't read stories where romance is the main plot. And I've learned to avoid dark tales, however popular. Even if well told.

Examples are worth thousands of words. So--fairy tale (or myth/legend/classic) retelling authors on my Keeper Shelf: A. S. Byatt, Pamela Dean, Jo Walton, Diana Wynn Jones, Elizabeth Pope, Naomi Novik.