Fionnuala’s review of Ulysses > Likes and Comments
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Wonderful review, and I felt much the same way. I didn't want to spoil the reading experience by caught up in reading a guide simultaneously. I think the next time I read it I will use Ulysses Annotated, which is sort of an encyclopedia of annotations. It will at least be nice for translations - I spent a lot of time translating things when I was reading Ulysses!
You would have made James Joyce's day. He always said that Ulysses was a book for everybody and anybody and that you didn't need to be an academic to read it. It's my favourite book:)
Thanks for the positive comments. I'm sure I will reread it too - I was briefly tempted to start over as soon as I reached the last page but there are so many other books, which I hope will be at least half as satisfying, waiting on my shelves.
This is a beautiful review, Fionnuala. I'm partway through my first read of it, and while I am loving tracing references and brushing up on my Irish history and marveling at Joyce's knowledge -- well -- everything, in the end it's his writing, the beauty of his language, and the arcs he creates throughout to turn a day in Dublin into something specific and still universal that make this such a special experience. I loved your description of your approach to solving the Ulysses puzzle. I hope that some GRers who have been terrified of reading Ulysses see your review and decide that they finally will pick it up.
Enjoy the experience, Kris, and I'm sure the annotated version is hugely rewarding. That's probably how I should read it next time, as Sarah suggested.
Thank you, thank you. This just may give me the confidence to go for it again. The last time I approached it, a very littery youg'un at Harvard gave me careful instructions about what other books I'd need at my elbow in order to understand Joyce, and I concluded it couldn't be fun to read it. And it wouldn't be fun to read it that way. So I won't. In a way, what you describe is the way I'm reading Norwegian as I learn it (I'm living in Oslo for a couple of years). I don't know every word, certainly not every idiom, and sometimes miss what's intended altogether--but often, if I just keep reading, accumulating the words and phrases in my mind, it suddenly clicks, and I say ah-HA!
.. as I had young children at the time and limited free moments ...
That was exactly the point in my life when I tried it, and then abandoned it. (I had read "Portrait ...," "Finnegans Wake" and Beckett, including "Molloy," in college before such time had arrived.) Now that that point in my life is 'long' past, you've inspired me to pick it up again.
Great review!
Will get to it one day Fionnuala, and will keep your advice in mind. I can never bear the annotated approach anyway - it just ruins the rhythm. And yes, Molloy is difficult, until (hopefully) it 'clicks'...
Anastasia, your experience of reading Norwegian lit in Norwegian should indeed be perfect preparation for Joyce - he'd be so chuffed to hear that, the polyglot that he was.
Teresa, I think Ulysses hadn't been rehabilitated long enough to figure on university courses when I was a student - it was banned in Ireland for a long time after publication, although some of Joyce's other works did appear. As for Beckett, he only figured on the French syllabus. Things have changed though, one of my daughters studied English lit in Dublin and both Ulysses and Beckett texts were listed.
Ben, I will persevere with Molloy. I picked it up partly because you mentioned it a while ago and partly because Enrique Vila-Matas made so many references to Beckett in Dublinesque, the book that inspired me to pick up Ulysses. But, ironically, I think the experience of reading Ulysses is interfering with the reading of Beckett - perhaps it's the contrary approaches of each, which Vila-Matas points out, one expanding the language, the other paring it back.
Does Vila-Matas mention that Beckett was Joyce's secretary in his (Beckett's) early 20s? So he had to fight that Joyce influence pretty hard; he was acutely aware that he could not compete on Joyce's terms, and he saw a challenge in Joyce's work that had to be met. For some reason, I found Beckett much easier to relate to once I'd read the Deirdre Bair biography - as though in shearing everything to the bone Beckett may have inadvertently jettisoned some stuff that was necessary to our understanding. But this is also what I love about him - that he rarefied his stories till they entered a blasted otherworld. He was determined to reach that elsewhere.
I think Vila-Matas was implying that Beckett was the unidentified man in the mackintosh, mentioned several times in Ulysses, although he also implied that it might have been Joyce himself. I find the second possibility more likely and more fitting, Joyce following in the tradition of artists like Velasquez and Jan van Eyck, who inserted cryptic portraits of themselves into their paintings.
Your point about Becket having to meet the challenge of Joyce's work while fighting its influence helps me understand Beckett better. What a creative period it was.
An amazing period. And very serious men! Someone (A. Alvarez?) once said that Beckett was trying to see what would grow in a void. But enough about Beckett - this is a Joyce thread after all! And I know next to nothing about Joyce.
Wonderful review. The worst crime any academic or reviewer can perpetrate is to reduce the temptation to open the door and have a peak at the world of Ulysses.
You've done everything within your power to tempt a potential reader.
Fionnuala, I have a good background in the Classics and Shakespeare, but I've always been convinced I would find Ulysses impenetrable. Your review has tempted me to download a copy on my ebook and plunge in.
I'm so glad my review has motivated you to read Ulysses, Louise and I look forward to hearing how you get along with it.
You definitely took the right route with this book. It is meant to be enjoyed more than anything else!
Hmm, that was pretty much my experience too, once you forget about the reputation and just read its tremendous fun. I'm not sure that even recognising the odd allusion to the Odyssey adds so much - I think it works perfectly well as this extravagant picture of Dublin life.
Totally agree that once finished you want to plunge in and start over again, but I suspect that you could do that infinitely...
Totally agree that once finished you want to plunge in and start over again, but I suspect that you could do that infinitely...
A lot of twentieth century literature is threaded through with echoes of Ulysses. Several of the books I read recently reminded me of it forcefully. So you are right, it is possible to go on reading it for ever!
Well said, Ulysses is for everyone, and it's great fun. I blogged my latest experiences with it, chapter by chapter, at http://anzlitlovers.com/tag/ulysses-d... it was just my way of recording my who-cares-if-it's-right-or-wrong thoughts and I love going back there and marvelling at it all over again. I'm going to tackle Finnegan's Wake one day...
Lisa wrote: "Well said, Ulysses is for everyone, and it's great fun. I blogged my latest experiences with it, chapter by chapter, at http://anzlitlovers.com/tag/ulysses-d... it wa..."
Had a look at your blog, Liza. It's a great record of your reading experience and this is a book that particularly lends itself to keeping such a record. Good luck with Finnegan's Wake...
Fionnuala wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Well said, Ulysses is for everyone, and it's great fun. I blogged my latest experiences with it, chapter by chapter, at http://anzlitlovers.com/tag/ulysses-d......" *chuckle* I'm going to need it!
I loved this demystifying review... this is exactly what I need to read before embarking in Ulysses (not soon though, too much on my plate now).
Thanks , Kalliope. Another review resurrected. Today is a very Finnegan-type day!
I know you won't get to Ulysses soon but when you do, you'll have a great experience. And probably the more general culture you have, and you have so much, the more you will get from it. Opera figures in it a bit too, so there'll be music themes for you to uncover which probably escaped me...
Kalliope, a wunnerfull, wannafall reise up and be merthifull reclaim of the aca-indemics polemics reviews.
Scribble wrote: " a wunnerfull, wannafall reise up and be merthifull reclaim of the aca-indemics polemics reviews."
I missed this typically Scribbelian comment when you posted, Scrib, but, thanks to a series of serendipities, (twice used phrase today, serendipitously enough), I've just reread this review because of falling on a review of Finnegans Wake, quite by chance, which reminded me of Proust, and then, somehow I thought of Bloom, via Swann, and so I came here and was particularly pleased to find your comment 'cos it means I can bump this old review into my updates!
Yesh....oi woz shorely treighing Miss Muses Haps wann dass getsschreeBen Hur war!
Haff n Puff oi whelped new comments n dates upsfeed!!!
All Wayke in Prowst and Sliip in Joys. Ta dum.
Scribble wrote: "...Haff n Puff oi whelped new comments n dates upsfeed!!!."
All Wayke in Prowst and Sliip in Joys.....
I went to sleep with Proust but wake to Joyce! Something so right about that.
Anyway, I puffed over to your FG updates and read them all, so need a strong coffee now.
If I continue reading your updates, which you post almost by the percent, can I then mark FG as read? And if I successfully distinguish between Finneganean and Scribbelean, will I get a prize?
Un caffe per la signorina, ecco lo!
The idea, being in Sin and Ceres, it is, Po Eng nest pa? tweedledum and tweedledee, fee fie fo fum, read all tha wotsitits ova I-GU-RI-SU-dannyboy-MA-N regio ars!
Altogether now, my ark is Your Head! En toto, no dodo, tis a thing TBred, no (th) read dread lieabed! Tis RebabbelIam, canna prise salt please me lose.
Scribble wrote: "..the idea, being in Sin and Ceres, it is, Po Eng nest pa? tweedledum and tweedledee, fee fie fo fum, read all tha wotsitits ova I-GU-RI-SU-dannyboy-MA-N regio ars!
..
I will sincerely have a go at all the 'whotsits' over there now that I've had my coffee.
shallum date figplum yum yum feed you up!
Fast breaking passes with the shorns of wheat, glycaemic decks over, load fett burre butt her! Please shore far, away runitoff like rain off a back duck duck quack quake.
Scribble wrote: "shallum date figplum yum yum feed you up!"
Ellpodbomool
Molldopeloob
Bollopededoom
Old Ollelbo, M.P.!!! (my exclamation marks)
Ulysses, page 792
Fionnuala wrote: "Scribble wrote: "shallum date figplum yum yum feed you up!"
Ellpodbomool
Molldopeloob
Bollopededoom
Old Ollelbo, M.P.!!! (my exclamation marks)
Ulysses, page 792"
You sound like Bill and Ben the Flowerpot Men:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozp8uw...
Karen wrote: "You sound like Bill and Ben the Flowerpot Men:"
Weed have been great flowerpot men!
Flopopopoplop flopopoplop
ohohohoo
Slobadob dob
Conlangers all!
Exactly! Just the way I read it and with the same enjoyment and wonder. I thought this was the template for all future novels and their possibilities. Background information just confines me. Thank you for liberating Ulysses.
Stephen wrote: "Exactly! Just the way I read it and with the same enjoyment and wonder.."
Great that you had a similar experience, Stephen.
When I looked in it yesterday to find something bouncy to throw at Scribble, I was amazed at how I was immediately caught up in it again, and with a different kind of attention from before because of knowing so much more about it than when I was making my way through it, so that I now intend to reread it and expect it to be an even more wonderful pleasure.
Bowncee, bowshe, banshee
seating in a tree,
fleared my eared and wagtailed my dog
while the madder hat cuppoard the tea.
Tittle tattle, willie's rattle, goingboing to the fair
Spittled wattle, to the prattle, lemmings settle wares?
Prattle waffled, willie's mottled, flourish me your mettle?
Wille's baffled, prattle's bottled, empty is my kettle.
Tae tittly, little fitty, shin sharpy, knee knappy, hinchy pinchy, wymie bulgy, breast berry, chin cherry, moo merry, nose nappy, ee winky, broo brinky, ower the croon, and awa' wi' it.
anon
I have a question. I have not been a student of English language or literature per se. My knowledge about literature is limited, I have not read all the classics barring a few. What I have hear od this novel is that it is full of allusions and if one does not have basic knowledge of English literature, reading this novel would lead one nowhere.
Is that true?
Can you pleas help me and suggest some basic books/novels/works in English literature that I need to read and understand before starting with Ulysses?
Diksha wrote: "I have a question. I have not been a student of English language or literature per se. My knowledge about literature is limited, I have not read all the classics barring a few. What I have hear od ..."
The thing is, Diksha, I didn't get most of the classical references that Joyce amused himself by including in this wonderful book but it didn't matter because I enjoyed it thoroughly anyway.
The only books I would recommend, and simply to set the scene if you don't know anything about Dublin in the early 1900s, are Joyce's short stories, The Dead, and his novel, The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.
Kris wrote: "This is a beautiful review, Fionnuala. I'm partway through my first read of it, and while I am loving tracing references and brushing up on my Irish history and marveling at Joyce's knowledge -- we..."
And that would be me. :) I've decided yesterday that I was going to tackle it at my pace, five pages a day. Along with the Bloomsday Guide and the audio Princeton lectures by James Heffernan. I'm totally excited. :)
Fionnuala,
How lovely to see a normal review about Joyce's excellent book. I read "Ulysses" years ago and loved it but I don't think that I will reread it as that is one of my memories that I cherish and I certainly don't want to lose sight of that.
There's something about Irish authors and the Irish themselves. They are quite unique.
Did you ever read The Ginger Man by J.P. Donleavy? I loved that.
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Sarah (Presto agitato)
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Aug 18, 2012 06:46AM
Wonderful review, and I felt much the same way. I didn't want to spoil the reading experience by caught up in reading a guide simultaneously. I think the next time I read it I will use Ulysses Annotated, which is sort of an encyclopedia of annotations. It will at least be nice for translations - I spent a lot of time translating things when I was reading Ulysses!
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You would have made James Joyce's day. He always said that Ulysses was a book for everybody and anybody and that you didn't need to be an academic to read it. It's my favourite book:)
Thanks for the positive comments. I'm sure I will reread it too - I was briefly tempted to start over as soon as I reached the last page but there are so many other books, which I hope will be at least half as satisfying, waiting on my shelves.
This is a beautiful review, Fionnuala. I'm partway through my first read of it, and while I am loving tracing references and brushing up on my Irish history and marveling at Joyce's knowledge -- well -- everything, in the end it's his writing, the beauty of his language, and the arcs he creates throughout to turn a day in Dublin into something specific and still universal that make this such a special experience. I loved your description of your approach to solving the Ulysses puzzle. I hope that some GRers who have been terrified of reading Ulysses see your review and decide that they finally will pick it up.
Enjoy the experience, Kris, and I'm sure the annotated version is hugely rewarding. That's probably how I should read it next time, as Sarah suggested.
Thank you, thank you. This just may give me the confidence to go for it again. The last time I approached it, a very littery youg'un at Harvard gave me careful instructions about what other books I'd need at my elbow in order to understand Joyce, and I concluded it couldn't be fun to read it. And it wouldn't be fun to read it that way. So I won't. In a way, what you describe is the way I'm reading Norwegian as I learn it (I'm living in Oslo for a couple of years). I don't know every word, certainly not every idiom, and sometimes miss what's intended altogether--but often, if I just keep reading, accumulating the words and phrases in my mind, it suddenly clicks, and I say ah-HA!
.. as I had young children at the time and limited free moments ...That was exactly the point in my life when I tried it, and then abandoned it. (I had read "Portrait ...," "Finnegans Wake" and Beckett, including "Molloy," in college before such time had arrived.) Now that that point in my life is 'long' past, you've inspired me to pick it up again.
Great review!
Will get to it one day Fionnuala, and will keep your advice in mind. I can never bear the annotated approach anyway - it just ruins the rhythm. And yes, Molloy is difficult, until (hopefully) it 'clicks'...
Anastasia, your experience of reading Norwegian lit in Norwegian should indeed be perfect preparation for Joyce - he'd be so chuffed to hear that, the polyglot that he was.Teresa, I think Ulysses hadn't been rehabilitated long enough to figure on university courses when I was a student - it was banned in Ireland for a long time after publication, although some of Joyce's other works did appear. As for Beckett, he only figured on the French syllabus. Things have changed though, one of my daughters studied English lit in Dublin and both Ulysses and Beckett texts were listed.
Ben, I will persevere with Molloy. I picked it up partly because you mentioned it a while ago and partly because Enrique Vila-Matas made so many references to Beckett in Dublinesque, the book that inspired me to pick up Ulysses. But, ironically, I think the experience of reading Ulysses is interfering with the reading of Beckett - perhaps it's the contrary approaches of each, which Vila-Matas points out, one expanding the language, the other paring it back.
Does Vila-Matas mention that Beckett was Joyce's secretary in his (Beckett's) early 20s? So he had to fight that Joyce influence pretty hard; he was acutely aware that he could not compete on Joyce's terms, and he saw a challenge in Joyce's work that had to be met. For some reason, I found Beckett much easier to relate to once I'd read the Deirdre Bair biography - as though in shearing everything to the bone Beckett may have inadvertently jettisoned some stuff that was necessary to our understanding. But this is also what I love about him - that he rarefied his stories till they entered a blasted otherworld. He was determined to reach that elsewhere.
I think Vila-Matas was implying that Beckett was the unidentified man in the mackintosh, mentioned several times in Ulysses, although he also implied that it might have been Joyce himself. I find the second possibility more likely and more fitting, Joyce following in the tradition of artists like Velasquez and Jan van Eyck, who inserted cryptic portraits of themselves into their paintings. Your point about Becket having to meet the challenge of Joyce's work while fighting its influence helps me understand Beckett better. What a creative period it was.
An amazing period. And very serious men! Someone (A. Alvarez?) once said that Beckett was trying to see what would grow in a void. But enough about Beckett - this is a Joyce thread after all! And I know next to nothing about Joyce.
Wonderful review. The worst crime any academic or reviewer can perpetrate is to reduce the temptation to open the door and have a peak at the world of Ulysses.You've done everything within your power to tempt a potential reader.
Fionnuala, I have a good background in the Classics and Shakespeare, but I've always been convinced I would find Ulysses impenetrable. Your review has tempted me to download a copy on my ebook and plunge in.
I'm so glad my review has motivated you to read Ulysses, Louise and I look forward to hearing how you get along with it.
You definitely took the right route with this book. It is meant to be enjoyed more than anything else!
Hmm, that was pretty much my experience too, once you forget about the reputation and just read its tremendous fun. I'm not sure that even recognising the odd allusion to the Odyssey adds so much - I think it works perfectly well as this extravagant picture of Dublin life.Totally agree that once finished you want to plunge in and start over again, but I suspect that you could do that infinitely...
Totally agree that once finished you want to plunge in and start over again, but I suspect that you could do that infinitely... A lot of twentieth century literature is threaded through with echoes of Ulysses. Several of the books I read recently reminded me of it forcefully. So you are right, it is possible to go on reading it for ever!
Well said, Ulysses is for everyone, and it's great fun. I blogged my latest experiences with it, chapter by chapter, at http://anzlitlovers.com/tag/ulysses-d... it was just my way of recording my who-cares-if-it's-right-or-wrong thoughts and I love going back there and marvelling at it all over again. I'm going to tackle Finnegan's Wake one day...
Lisa wrote: "Well said, Ulysses is for everyone, and it's great fun. I blogged my latest experiences with it, chapter by chapter, at http://anzlitlovers.com/tag/ulysses-d... it wa..."Had a look at your blog, Liza. It's a great record of your reading experience and this is a book that particularly lends itself to keeping such a record. Good luck with Finnegan's Wake...
Fionnuala wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Well said, Ulysses is for everyone, and it's great fun. I blogged my latest experiences with it, chapter by chapter, at http://anzlitlovers.com/tag/ulysses-d......" *chuckle* I'm going to need it!
I loved this demystifying review... this is exactly what I need to read before embarking in Ulysses (not soon though, too much on my plate now).
Thanks , Kalliope. Another review resurrected. Today is a very Finnegan-type day!I know you won't get to Ulysses soon but when you do, you'll have a great experience. And probably the more general culture you have, and you have so much, the more you will get from it. Opera figures in it a bit too, so there'll be music themes for you to uncover which probably escaped me...
Kalliope, a wunnerfull, wannafall reise up and be merthifull reclaim of the aca-indemics polemics reviews.
Scribble wrote: " a wunnerfull, wannafall reise up and be merthifull reclaim of the aca-indemics polemics reviews."I missed this typically Scribbelian comment when you posted, Scrib, but, thanks to a series of serendipities, (twice used phrase today, serendipitously enough), I've just reread this review because of falling on a review of Finnegans Wake, quite by chance, which reminded me of Proust, and then, somehow I thought of Bloom, via Swann, and so I came here and was particularly pleased to find your comment 'cos it means I can bump this old review into my updates!
Yesh....oi woz shorely treighing Miss Muses Haps wann dass getsschreeBen Hur war!Haff n Puff oi whelped new comments n dates upsfeed!!!
All Wayke in Prowst and Sliip in Joys. Ta dum.
Scribble wrote: "...Haff n Puff oi whelped new comments n dates upsfeed!!!." All Wayke in Prowst and Sliip in Joys.....
I went to sleep with Proust but wake to Joyce! Something so right about that.
Anyway, I puffed over to your FG updates and read them all, so need a strong coffee now.
If I continue reading your updates, which you post almost by the percent, can I then mark FG as read? And if I successfully distinguish between Finneganean and Scribbelean, will I get a prize?
Un caffe per la signorina, ecco lo!The idea, being in Sin and Ceres, it is, Po Eng nest pa? tweedledum and tweedledee, fee fie fo fum, read all tha wotsitits ova I-GU-RI-SU-dannyboy-MA-N regio ars!
Altogether now, my ark is Your Head! En toto, no dodo, tis a thing TBred, no (th) read dread lieabed! Tis RebabbelIam, canna prise salt please me lose.
Scribble wrote: "..the idea, being in Sin and Ceres, it is, Po Eng nest pa? tweedledum and tweedledee, fee fie fo fum, read all tha wotsitits ova I-GU-RI-SU-dannyboy-MA-N regio ars!..
I will sincerely have a go at all the 'whotsits' over there now that I've had my coffee.
shallum date figplum yum yum feed you up!Fast breaking passes with the shorns of wheat, glycaemic decks over, load fett burre butt her! Please shore far, away runitoff like rain off a back duck duck quack quake.
Scribble wrote: "shallum date figplum yum yum feed you up!"Ellpodbomool
Molldopeloob
Bollopededoom
Old Ollelbo, M.P.!!! (my exclamation marks)
Ulysses, page 792
Fionnuala wrote: "Scribble wrote: "shallum date figplum yum yum feed you up!"Ellpodbomool
Molldopeloob
Bollopededoom
Old Ollelbo, M.P.!!! (my exclamation marks)
Ulysses, page 792"
You sound like Bill and Ben the Flowerpot Men:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozp8uw...
Karen wrote: "You sound like Bill and Ben the Flowerpot Men:"Weed have been great flowerpot men!
Flopopopoplop flopopoplop
ohohohoo
Slobadob dob
Conlangers all!
Exactly! Just the way I read it and with the same enjoyment and wonder. I thought this was the template for all future novels and their possibilities. Background information just confines me. Thank you for liberating Ulysses.
Stephen wrote: "Exactly! Just the way I read it and with the same enjoyment and wonder.."Great that you had a similar experience, Stephen.
When I looked in it yesterday to find something bouncy to throw at Scribble, I was amazed at how I was immediately caught up in it again, and with a different kind of attention from before because of knowing so much more about it than when I was making my way through it, so that I now intend to reread it and expect it to be an even more wonderful pleasure.
Bowncee, bowshe, bansheeseating in a tree,
fleared my eared and wagtailed my dog
while the madder hat cuppoard the tea.
Tittle tattle, willie's rattle, goingboing to the fairSpittled wattle, to the prattle, lemmings settle wares?
Prattle waffled, willie's mottled, flourish me your mettle?
Wille's baffled, prattle's bottled, empty is my kettle.
Tae tittly, little fitty, shin sharpy, knee knappy, hinchy pinchy, wymie bulgy, breast berry, chin cherry, moo merry, nose nappy, ee winky, broo brinky, ower the croon, and awa' wi' it.anon
I have a question. I have not been a student of English language or literature per se. My knowledge about literature is limited, I have not read all the classics barring a few. What I have hear od this novel is that it is full of allusions and if one does not have basic knowledge of English literature, reading this novel would lead one nowhere. Is that true?
Can you pleas help me and suggest some basic books/novels/works in English literature that I need to read and understand before starting with Ulysses?
Diksha wrote: "I have a question. I have not been a student of English language or literature per se. My knowledge about literature is limited, I have not read all the classics barring a few. What I have hear od ..."The thing is, Diksha, I didn't get most of the classical references that Joyce amused himself by including in this wonderful book but it didn't matter because I enjoyed it thoroughly anyway.
The only books I would recommend, and simply to set the scene if you don't know anything about Dublin in the early 1900s, are Joyce's short stories, The Dead, and his novel, The Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.
Kris wrote: "This is a beautiful review, Fionnuala. I'm partway through my first read of it, and while I am loving tracing references and brushing up on my Irish history and marveling at Joyce's knowledge -- we..."And that would be me. :) I've decided yesterday that I was going to tackle it at my pace, five pages a day. Along with the Bloomsday Guide and the audio Princeton lectures by James Heffernan. I'm totally excited. :)
Fionnuala,How lovely to see a normal review about Joyce's excellent book. I read "Ulysses" years ago and loved it but I don't think that I will reread it as that is one of my memories that I cherish and I certainly don't want to lose sight of that.
There's something about Irish authors and the Irish themselves. They are quite unique.
Did you ever read The Ginger Man by J.P. Donleavy? I loved that.

