Willow’s answer to “This isn't really a question? Hi, Willow. I just finished reviewing a book and started scrolling…” > Likes and Comments
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I personally loved the book and since authors are people and read books just like the rest of us and I think it's incredibly unfair to expect them to only post positive reviews. I'd prefer someone who's honest and not afraid to give their opinion and provided they've read the book I see absolutely no reason why they can't give their opinion.
Willow I think it's incredible that you've never left a negative review on Amazon and you're right Goodreads is different, it feels more relaxed and comfortable and a place where books and so much more can be discussed.
Willow Brooks What the HELL?!! That's complete BS. I didn't know authors couldnt be honest about a book they've actually read and didn't like. Sometimes I don't like first or second books written by indi authors. I don't rate these on Amazon because I understand they're trying to find their way and I understand how difficult it can be. I will send them a message )if I can get their email or find them on Goodreads) with a referral to an editor or a nice little tip that I wished mean reviewers would have done for me the first time around.
Now, a seasoned author is going to get an honest review wherever I feel like putting it. Not that I would be mean because I don't believe I'm a mean person in general. I am harder for certain pet peeves I have, but I feel like It takes a lot for me to give a low review of a book especially because I understand what it takes for an author to put something out there for the world to judge. However, being an author does not give you the right to be dishonest about what you did or did not like in a story. I believe readers will respect you more knowing you have an opinion and that you're willing to share it with them. I actually look to see if an author review or rates other books. If they do and they actually put something real in their review, I'm more likely to read that authors other work. I'm not talking about an author who shred other authors work for fun, I actually ignore people like them and chalk it up to them not being happy in their lives, desperately seeking attention, or because they are so miserable they find tearing another authors work down makes them feel good. I have no respect for that kind of an author.
To be honest I feel that Kimmi just did to you, Willow what she's accusing you of doing otherwise she would have sent you a personal message whether than post this publicly as she did. It seems to be an open gentle rebuke. Again, that is just my honest opinion.
An honest opinion of a book is almost the only thing an author is allowed to have an opinion on unless they join a group, and sometimes groups come with their own difficulties.
Thank you, Q, for your support. Trading reviews is highly unethical in my opinion as well. I will never lie to gain readership - what would be the point of it?? If someone feels the complete opposite about a book from me, I don't really care. Even when it's my own books. I just enjoy the forum for open discussions about all books. Even classics have their critics, so why should Frazier or any other author be put on a pedestal by me or anyone else? Now...I'm not sayin that I don't want a monument in my honor. Something classy and appropriately abstract that only hints at a phallus perhaps :))
Thanks, Deb! It is unfair to apply different rules to authors on here I think. We're people (most of us anyway) and our opinions count as much or as little as anyone else's. The Amazon thing is my personal ethics. Even if I feel strongly that a book sucked, I don't leave negative feedback at the retailer out of respect for the work that goes into getting a book to publication. GR is a no-holds-barred place though and I won't be subjected some random hypocrisy when my own ethics are solid.
Thanks, WillowB. I've done the same thing - looked to see if an author actually leaves *real* reviews on here. I always have more respect for the ones that do. The oddest part to all of this - it's not my review that Kimmi has issue with even. It's the comments left by me on a friend's review that are having her call foul play. My review was honest and direct, the only way I can be frankly, and my comments were as well. She had to have been trolling for comments and bad reviews in order to come across mine...so why would someone go looking for what they don't want to see? I looked at Kimmi's own reviews and Q is right - they were ARCs. I suppose the conclusion can be made that she was either working under a misguided sympathy for Frazier or angling for more ARCs as Q conjectured. I don't know. I don't care. ARCs are not an author's right to demand a good review or advocacy on their behalf.
Poor taste? Does essentially telling someone that they should either LIE or not review at all fit your same definition of poor taste? I'll tell you my definition for it... Asinine.
You told Willow what she did wrong , but I notice you didn't say what the alternative to her leaving an honest comment and/or review would be?
• Lie?
• Be so politically correct and generalized with her opinion that posting it is as pointless, as it is censored, as it is false?
• Or, maybe you think her opinion should be banned all together because YOU'VE decided that one can't possibly be both ethical as an author and honest as a reviewer?
Please do tell what she should do? What would be appropriate? Professional? Ethical?
Ethics as an author has shitforbeans to do with being an honest reviewer. In fact, what is unethical and unprofessional is when authors do the tit-for-tat prop-ups by leaving positive reviews and five star ratings for other authors when they either haven't read the book or know good and damn well it's shit.
You, I, and everyone else here goes off and buys a book because our fav author says it's the bomb in a 'professional courtesy' review. Turns out it reeks. How's that for ethics? Professional curtesy worth $3.99 out of your pocket?
I guarantee you that Willow wouldn't be calling writers-r-us to report any author that reviewed her book, positive or negatively.
Have you even looked at her books and the reviews toward her as an author?
I have, and I can tell you that a fair amount of them are critical based on the subject of dark erotica. I can also attest that she comments back to and interacts with a large portion of her reviewers, myself included, as she:
• Asks questions.
• Thanks readers for their opinion and taking the time to review.
• Recommends other books to fit the reviewer's tastes.
• Even offers copies of her other books for free.
When is the last time you've seen an author do any, much less all, of that? Does that sound like a callous, unprofessional author out to rip apart her colleagues? No?
Any reader asinine enough to begrudge a reader their honest opinion just because they too have written a book is someone that I most certainly WILL NEVER use as an information source on the value of any book.
I hope that after viewing the comments here on your comment that you can take a step back from the situation and look at how 1) you're discriminating against authors that also read and 2) are being unreasonable in asking a reviewer to lie else forfeit their opinion.
Well Hell's Bells!!! You broke it down and made it plain, Ashleejo. It's an endless battle. I swear author politics can be exhausting. You made several valid points. I've had authors send me personal messages, offended at what I said on a review. One author actually told me that I should know better. Ha! Wish I would be fake. That just ain't gone happen captain. Anyway, perfect comment.
It's those other authors that should know better and be ashamed of expecting anything less than an honest opinion. To expect otherwise from ANYONE is quite a reflection on that author's own ethics, professionalism, and integrity... Not yours! <<< Polite version <<<< >>>> impolite version>>>> Fuck them and the golden horse they're perched upon.
Ashley - thank you for your comments! "Ethical as an author and honest as a reviewer" - you've summed up my way of thinking. And I'm ashamed to admit, that I've not really thought before about one point you bring up -- an author's opinion of another author's work as a somehow more "weighted" opinion than a non-authors. I absolutely agree...it adds to the need for authors to be brutally honest with their reviews. I could no more swallow down a faux "nice" review than I could write a book that didn't come from my heart. What would be the point? I hold myself responsible for what I write and that includes reviews. I don't ask anyone to approve or disapprove of either ;)
I just sat here and read this entire thread... mainly because I was stunned at Kimmie's post. Loved everyone's responses, and I couldn't agree more.
Well done.
And where did Kimmi go? I would really like to know if she understood where Willow, et al, were coming from. That she realized that she was actually asking Willow to, in essence, lie. Not to have her come back in order to bash her. Nothing like that at all, because that would be just as wrong, but just to see if the opinions here made her step back and take another look at this.
Frazier and I know each other from GR, she's on my group, I enjoyed her book(s), but that doesn't mean that I demand that everyone else does. I would venture to guess that she would be embarrassed by Kimmi's initial comments to Willow.
Just my buck two ninety-eight. :)
Thanks, nd. I have no idea where Kimmi went. She asked for my email too, but I never heard more from her *scratchin my noggin* I'm choosing to believe that she did come to understand what all was said here, but we may never know :-/ I'm guessing Frazier has no idea about any of this, but she certainly shouldn't feel any embarrassment about it even if she does. Peeps are going to do what peeps are going to do...shame really that we can't keep more folks ball-gagged n chained, isn't it heehee
LOVE this response. Love, love, LOVE!
*blush* Thanks, Heather :))) I never did hear back from Kimmi after all this though *shrug*
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I personally loved the book and since authors are people and read books just like the rest of us and I think it's incredibly unfair to expect them to only post positive reviews. I'd prefer someone who's honest and not afraid to give their opinion and provided they've read the book I see absolutely no reason why they can't give their opinion.Willow I think it's incredible that you've never left a negative review on Amazon and you're right Goodreads is different, it feels more relaxed and comfortable and a place where books and so much more can be discussed.
Willow Brooks What the HELL?!! That's complete BS. I didn't know authors couldnt be honest about a book they've actually read and didn't like. Sometimes I don't like first or second books written by indi authors. I don't rate these on Amazon because I understand they're trying to find their way and I understand how difficult it can be. I will send them a message )if I can get their email or find them on Goodreads) with a referral to an editor or a nice little tip that I wished mean reviewers would have done for me the first time around. Now, a seasoned author is going to get an honest review wherever I feel like putting it. Not that I would be mean because I don't believe I'm a mean person in general. I am harder for certain pet peeves I have, but I feel like It takes a lot for me to give a low review of a book especially because I understand what it takes for an author to put something out there for the world to judge. However, being an author does not give you the right to be dishonest about what you did or did not like in a story. I believe readers will respect you more knowing you have an opinion and that you're willing to share it with them. I actually look to see if an author review or rates other books. If they do and they actually put something real in their review, I'm more likely to read that authors other work. I'm not talking about an author who shred other authors work for fun, I actually ignore people like them and chalk it up to them not being happy in their lives, desperately seeking attention, or because they are so miserable they find tearing another authors work down makes them feel good. I have no respect for that kind of an author.
To be honest I feel that Kimmi just did to you, Willow what she's accusing you of doing otherwise she would have sent you a personal message whether than post this publicly as she did. It seems to be an open gentle rebuke. Again, that is just my honest opinion.
An honest opinion of a book is almost the only thing an author is allowed to have an opinion on unless they join a group, and sometimes groups come with their own difficulties.
Thank you, Q, for your support. Trading reviews is highly unethical in my opinion as well. I will never lie to gain readership - what would be the point of it?? If someone feels the complete opposite about a book from me, I don't really care. Even when it's my own books. I just enjoy the forum for open discussions about all books. Even classics have their critics, so why should Frazier or any other author be put on a pedestal by me or anyone else? Now...I'm not sayin that I don't want a monument in my honor. Something classy and appropriately abstract that only hints at a phallus perhaps :))
Thanks, Deb! It is unfair to apply different rules to authors on here I think. We're people (most of us anyway) and our opinions count as much or as little as anyone else's. The Amazon thing is my personal ethics. Even if I feel strongly that a book sucked, I don't leave negative feedback at the retailer out of respect for the work that goes into getting a book to publication. GR is a no-holds-barred place though and I won't be subjected some random hypocrisy when my own ethics are solid.
Thanks, WillowB. I've done the same thing - looked to see if an author actually leaves *real* reviews on here. I always have more respect for the ones that do. The oddest part to all of this - it's not my review that Kimmi has issue with even. It's the comments left by me on a friend's review that are having her call foul play. My review was honest and direct, the only way I can be frankly, and my comments were as well. She had to have been trolling for comments and bad reviews in order to come across mine...so why would someone go looking for what they don't want to see? I looked at Kimmi's own reviews and Q is right - they were ARCs. I suppose the conclusion can be made that she was either working under a misguided sympathy for Frazier or angling for more ARCs as Q conjectured. I don't know. I don't care. ARCs are not an author's right to demand a good review or advocacy on their behalf.
Poor taste? Does essentially telling someone that they should either LIE or not review at all fit your same definition of poor taste? I'll tell you my definition for it... Asinine. You told Willow what she did wrong , but I notice you didn't say what the alternative to her leaving an honest comment and/or review would be?
• Lie?
• Be so politically correct and generalized with her opinion that posting it is as pointless, as it is censored, as it is false?
• Or, maybe you think her opinion should be banned all together because YOU'VE decided that one can't possibly be both ethical as an author and honest as a reviewer?
Please do tell what she should do? What would be appropriate? Professional? Ethical?
Ethics as an author has shitforbeans to do with being an honest reviewer. In fact, what is unethical and unprofessional is when authors do the tit-for-tat prop-ups by leaving positive reviews and five star ratings for other authors when they either haven't read the book or know good and damn well it's shit.
You, I, and everyone else here goes off and buys a book because our fav author says it's the bomb in a 'professional courtesy' review. Turns out it reeks. How's that for ethics? Professional curtesy worth $3.99 out of your pocket?
I guarantee you that Willow wouldn't be calling writers-r-us to report any author that reviewed her book, positive or negatively.
Have you even looked at her books and the reviews toward her as an author?
I have, and I can tell you that a fair amount of them are critical based on the subject of dark erotica. I can also attest that she comments back to and interacts with a large portion of her reviewers, myself included, as she:
• Asks questions.
• Thanks readers for their opinion and taking the time to review.
• Recommends other books to fit the reviewer's tastes.
• Even offers copies of her other books for free.
When is the last time you've seen an author do any, much less all, of that? Does that sound like a callous, unprofessional author out to rip apart her colleagues? No?
Any reader asinine enough to begrudge a reader their honest opinion just because they too have written a book is someone that I most certainly WILL NEVER use as an information source on the value of any book.
I hope that after viewing the comments here on your comment that you can take a step back from the situation and look at how 1) you're discriminating against authors that also read and 2) are being unreasonable in asking a reviewer to lie else forfeit their opinion.
Well Hell's Bells!!! You broke it down and made it plain, Ashleejo. It's an endless battle. I swear author politics can be exhausting. You made several valid points. I've had authors send me personal messages, offended at what I said on a review. One author actually told me that I should know better. Ha! Wish I would be fake. That just ain't gone happen captain. Anyway, perfect comment.
It's those other authors that should know better and be ashamed of expecting anything less than an honest opinion. To expect otherwise from ANYONE is quite a reflection on that author's own ethics, professionalism, and integrity... Not yours! <<< Polite version <<<< >>>> impolite version>>>> Fuck them and the golden horse they're perched upon.
Ashley - thank you for your comments! "Ethical as an author and honest as a reviewer" - you've summed up my way of thinking. And I'm ashamed to admit, that I've not really thought before about one point you bring up -- an author's opinion of another author's work as a somehow more "weighted" opinion than a non-authors. I absolutely agree...it adds to the need for authors to be brutally honest with their reviews. I could no more swallow down a faux "nice" review than I could write a book that didn't come from my heart. What would be the point? I hold myself responsible for what I write and that includes reviews. I don't ask anyone to approve or disapprove of either ;)
I just sat here and read this entire thread... mainly because I was stunned at Kimmie's post. Loved everyone's responses, and I couldn't agree more. Well done.
And where did Kimmi go? I would really like to know if she understood where Willow, et al, were coming from. That she realized that she was actually asking Willow to, in essence, lie. Not to have her come back in order to bash her. Nothing like that at all, because that would be just as wrong, but just to see if the opinions here made her step back and take another look at this.
Frazier and I know each other from GR, she's on my group, I enjoyed her book(s), but that doesn't mean that I demand that everyone else does. I would venture to guess that she would be embarrassed by Kimmi's initial comments to Willow.
Just my buck two ninety-eight. :)
Thanks, nd. I have no idea where Kimmi went. She asked for my email too, but I never heard more from her *scratchin my noggin* I'm choosing to believe that she did come to understand what all was said here, but we may never know :-/ I'm guessing Frazier has no idea about any of this, but she certainly shouldn't feel any embarrassment about it even if she does. Peeps are going to do what peeps are going to do...shame really that we can't keep more folks ball-gagged n chained, isn't it heehee
LOVE this response. Love, love, LOVE!
*blush* Thanks, Heather :))) I never did hear back from Kimmi after all this though *shrug*
I don't see it.
Perhaps Kimmi can explain?
You never insult the author. You just didn't like the story. To say that you are not allowed to post your feelings/opinions on Goodreads simply because you are an author is ludicrous. What next? No friends at all just because of your occupation? Perhaps you should remain sequestered and become a complete hermit with no opinion at all for fear of insulting someone's delicate sensibilities...
The implication that you should lie about your true feelings simply to gain readership makes me want to vomit. Though I have no doubt this is actually going on, I couldn't possibly respect an author if I found out they were, indeed, doing this. Newsflash. It's called trading reviews, and it's unethical.
Now, I don't know Kimmi from Adam either, and I can't begin to guess her motivation for being so judgmental and, in doing so, showing such hypocrisy. I am going to take a wild guess that this was an ARC for her, but that is just because the whole thing reeks of the kind of brown-nosing done to get more ARCs. Of course, that's just speculation on my part... I will say this, though: glass houses, Kimmi. And I'll leave her with these parting words she should know well...
"Although I am not currently a published author, I think the above is in very poor taste and may cost you readers that would have otherwise given you a chance."