Steven’s answer to “2) p 77: I'm not convinced that talking about a feeling (esp where feeling = sensation) shuts it of…” > Likes and Comments

Thanks again Steven for your thoughtful answer.

I'm still struggling a bit with this one. While the idea of rapid task-switching makes perfect sense (especially from a brain and awareness perspective), I do think I can describe a sensation while feeling it. Cases in point:

- when I teach heart-rate coherence, I often give the example of how I elicit it in myself while speaking with them. Just describing my personal "trigger" will often lead to feeling the coherence-sensation for me. Or, if I already have the sensation, describing it enhances/amplifies the existing sensation.

- I have been practicing recently with Clean Language, which uses expansion on people's metaphors for their "feeling-states". (I feel your pain on communicating about these in all their variety ;-) One can see people do something different when they "go inside" to expand on the metaphor aspect (e.g., a 'flowing....And what kind of flowing is that flowing?"). Sometimes right in the midst of responding to the question, they will have an aha or a sudden expansion to the "feeling".

- Often people journal specifically in order to get clarity on what they're "feeling" (body or mind). If words pre-empted the feeling, this shouldn't work, should it? (and clearly, in some cases, it does pre-empt it, as I mention below.)

While any of these COULD be a rapid-switching, I'm not convinced that the limitations of either a computer (which our brains are not ;-) or of awareness -- both of which certainly involve the rapid-switching -- mean that we can't hold both words and "feelings", especially when the "feelings" are physical and thus are activating different and complementary brain areas, rather than being in competition (as would journaling/words and emotions - clearly those can interfere with other, as research showing decreased emotional intensity following journaling from a "subjective perspective" (as per your definition, I think :-).

Thank you again for helping me work through your perspectives.

Hi Karen,

Admittedly, this one IS difficult to see. Know I'd shared our initial exchanges with my formal students, including this one. Here are two of their responses to this exchange.

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Dr Karen asked: 2) p 77: I'm not convinced that talking about a feeling (esp where feeling = sensation) shuts it off. This is not my experience (and it doesn't seem the experience of my clients, but I can't really speak to their internal experience, can I? ;-)

(From Bobby M.)

It's a tough one. Of course she's not asking if talking about a feeling shuts it off but my mind was curious. I turned to a physical model.

Imagine the ocean is before you. You have a camera with you. You watch the constantly changing white caps and diving waves. So you take a picture.

Now, it's a Polaroid, so you can look at it now. ;)

What's happening as you look at it? You are seeing a fixed moment, where the waves where and now gone past. You look back down at the ocean and focus on the movement again.

Back to the picture of the ocean. Then eyes back to the ocean. Can you feel the shift?

I think the phrase "shuts it off" can be misleading. What are we saying? That the ocean stopped moving while we were not looking? No. We are saying we can't perceive the ocean moving AND a single instant of the ocean at the same moment.

Thanks for sharing Steve.
Bobby

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And from Sam S.

Hey Steve,
Loved reading through those emails. That thing about questions about feelings shutting feelings off has actually plagued me, and even after reading your really great responses my head was still slightly spinning even though I understood the single points of it intellectually. But for some reason, when Bobby responded with that metaphor about the ocean and the picture of the ocean it clicked. So I am very thankful for Dr. Karen and her questions, and very thankful that you decided to let me in on the whole thing.

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Finally, I am wondering if you may be mistaking the ability to keep sensing touching your leg while hearing or speaking words without realizing your are not hearing these words as words but rather as sounds (e.g. sensations).

A group discussion! Love it. ;-)

Bobby's metaphor of the ocean didn't quite work for me, but I adapted it to fit my existing brain networks better -- so for me, it might be more like the limitation of watching the ocean and then describing it. Since we can only describe what has *already* happened, we are always a beat behind what is actually occurring. And hence we can't ever describe what is actually happening in that moment perhaps. And perhaps THAT means we are moving our focus away from the present moment and creating an effect like distraction from pain.

I also realised that I am trying to find a "universal truth" in your description -- but is that what you are trying to provide or are you more trying to provide a definition that lets the reader move forward with the same vocabulary as that which you are using for the rest of the book?

As to touch + descrption -- no, I don't believe I'm confusing those -- i can definitely talk about the sensation while feeling it or even enhancing it. As I mentioned, this is part of what I do when teaching about HRV. But, given the ocean metaphor above, I might indeed be describing what has already happened while I continue to generate new sensation. ;-)