alice (lana del rey's version)’s Comments (group member since Jan 25, 2025)

alice (lana del rey's version)’s comments from the The Debate Club group.

Tessie wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "Tessie wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "Tessie wrote: "Also, say fifty women are harassed at work. They’re more likely to come together than if ..."

oh whattttt that's horrible!
haha i agree especially since we basically live on opposite sides of the world, things are pretty different here

sieraqvt🇻🇳 semi-ia (school) wrote: "i feel like some of it is true, some of it is a bit exaggerated, and some of them are tales/ parables to tell of Gods strength. like how the greek myths are not considered true, even to pagans, and..."

is this like how the 7 days of creation is a metaphor for time?

Tessie wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "Tessie wrote: "Also, say fifty women are harassed at work. They’re more likely to come together than if five men were harassed at work.

There are more people..."

yeah i agree with what you said about why less people are standing up for it, but that doesnt mean that it's something we cannot improve on as a community

and no i have not witnessed straight up animal cruelty like cosmetic testing. a lot of it happens behind the scenes in big companies and businesses of skincare and makeup products which makes the whole issue very hidden. i think this sort of goes the same way as men are half the population so i think these sorts of issues affect both of us

my final point is going to be i completely agree with everything everyone has been saying about giving women rights to their own body, abortion rights (as someone from australia where abortion is legal in all states, and many countries need to follow this), and just basic human rights.
all i am saying is that, if we can, we could also be taking a few steps looking at men's issues too (and we as in both men and women) if we want full gender equality.
issues regarding women's rights are yes, much much more severe and impact more people, but both are equally as important. after all, men are also 50% of the population too.
i'm sorry if i was being rude throughout this and i agree with a lot of the points people have said here, i just wanted to put my point across that if we want gender equality, we need to look at men's (and lgbtq) rights too.

Tessie wrote: "Also, say fifty women are harassed at work. They’re more likely to come together than if five men were harassed at work.

There are more people fighting for feminism because there are more people e..."

yes, there are much less male victims of harrassment and assault but this doesn't make it any less important. i agree with you that there are less cases therefore less people speaking up about it, but like many other issues people face today, it is STILL important regardless
like for example, i have not witnessed first-hand animal cruelty in my life however i stand up to this issue. same logic goes

Tessie wrote: "Did some digging. Men are in fact offered the same rate of paid parental leave as women. Most men choose not to take it due to societal pressures, career setbacks, or some jobs only offer half thei..."

sorry, i got that wrong. you are right that no men do not get given a shorter leave, but there is a very high expectation for men to continue their career and be providing for their family, supporting the household through financial means rather than actualy looking after the child and mother etc.

and about paternity leave, sorry that im mentioning it that much but im just saying that it's an issue that directly affects women. a lot of people were talking about the gender pay gap affecting women and in one of my earlier points i said how a father not being involved in his child's life can very negatively impact a mother and just women in the workplace overall. so yeah men's rights very much do affect women's too

i haven't said as much about men going through domestic abuse because a lot of people have mentioned it and said that the rates of sa towards men is much much less than of women therefore it's not as important (not you, but it has been mentioned a lot earlier in the debate). however i think this a horrible excuse of saying someone's assult is less important than someone else's just because there are less cases. i agree with your point that although abuse towards men shouldn't be focused on, it's still an important issue.

Tessie wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "Tessie wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "and how this relates to men's rights - my main claim is that if we want to achieve full gender equality,..."

you said that men are one of the main reasons of their issues and there isn't enough of men uplifting men, which i compeltely agree with. the whole topic is whether or not men's rights are being ignored, and they are - im not just talking about women but also mainly about men dismissing their own issues BECAUSE of the stereotypes and normalised expectations put on them

and about the question why aren't they sharing about men's rights, well as i said before, there is a culture of toxic masculinity and i would assume the inability for them to be seen as 'weak' or 'vulnerable'. obviously women are doing a much better job at standing up for their own rights, but i think another factor is that men would seem self-centred or something like that if they respond to this activism with 'oh well i have problems too'

Tessie wrote: "Some things I don’t understand aka the reason I don’t believe the Bible is true:
Scientists have proved there is no way we came from two people
https://answersingenesis.org/genetics......"

ooook those are some really good points i really didn't think this through
honestly im not really sure what to think because i dont really get the practicality or how Christianity really works, but there is also so much evidence of the bible being an actual source when comparing it to other well known texts and events. but then again i don't really know much about the religion so i hope someone will have some answers

Sai :) wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "i get what you guys are saying, but i also wanted to mention that we can't achieve full gender equality without BOTH men's and women's rights, and a lot of wo..."

thank you !

give men the right to be comfortable in their own body, to show their emotions, to be weak and vulnerable, to not have to be seen as 'macho' or 'tough'. if men don't have to be forced into these boxes, then, i think, this will create a society where women won't be pushed into being inferior or submissive either. this will then just start the domino effect towards women's actual rights
and as emma watson said in her HeforShe speech, 'If men don't have to control, women won't have to be controlled.'

Tessie wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "TESSIE wrote: "Domestic violence isn't okay no matter who the perpetrator is or what their gender is.
A big problem we do face is that female abusers are com..."

that's a really interesting point, but i think both genders are contributing towards pushing down men's rights. yes, there is a horible culture of toxic masculinity and a lot of this is initiated by other men, but this is exactly what im trying to say - we all, INCLUDING men, need to step up to talk about this. 'its the men doing it to themselves that need to be changed,' i completely agree with this, but are we just going to say okay you guys need to change and just leave it like that? and im not saying it should be just the women saying this, im saying that men THEMSELF also has to bring up their own issues too. and creating by a society where there is no judgement or insecurities, i think that would really help.
also about women not putting down men, i've seen a lot of it but then again, it seems really subtle because society has sort of normalised it. youve probably heard of things like 'i want him over 6ft' 'hes too skinny he cant even carry me' 'being fit is the bare minimum.' by no means am i saying that these expectations are as severe as women's. but im saying that this sort of thing is so prevalent today to the point where we are normalising it.
we need to continue fighting for women's rights, i really do think we need to do more, but at least as a collective can we take some small steps towards men's rights as well? and not only will this impact men but WOMEN and gender equality as a whole, because if we get rid of this toxic masculinity and expectations for men, it will help women with a lot of the issues we struggle with too.

Tessie wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "and how this relates to men's rights - my main claim is that if we want to achieve full gender equality, we have to address, in depth, the rights of ALL gende..."

no, i or i dont think anyone else has said that men's rights are more important than women's. my whole case is that everyone's rights are equal, and yes i agree with you that women's rights should be addressed first. and the good thing is, they are, and we are working towards a better world in terms of womens bodily autonomy in many countries, and there are so many worldwide organisations that support this like UNFPA. this is really great and we definitely still need to continue with this but in doing so, we have sort of been ignoring mens' rights that are so important in achieving gender equality

i completely agree with your second point about women's bodily rights needing to be addressed first. BUT about 'mens' rights not being overlooked' - the reason why we are even bringing up these issues in the first place is because they actually ARE being dismissed. look on social media - for every 50 womens' body positivity post, there's one for men. actually, recently i havent been seeing ANY men's mental health content or gender equality as a whole, really, and thats saying something because im too chronically online for my own good. also, i wanted to bring out that many people on here didn't know much about paternity leave and assumed it was only for the man's mental health, and this just shows that IF all of us as a community, including myself, are not aware of and acknowledging the role of a literal father in his child's life, how are we going to reach gender equality? im not saying anything about us as individual people, and i myself also need to be eduated more on this topic, but as a society we should first try to understand what exaclty is prohibiting gender equality and what we can do to get there from BOTH sides for both men and women
and yes, i'd also like to see men debating on this topic here, that wou;d be really interesting

from a non-Christian perspective and as someone who is still trying to figure out their faith, i believe that there is so much evidence of the Bible

like Cece said, the Bible is very consistent with its messages despite being written over thousands of years

also, it's proved to be as if not more reliable and accurate as other well-known historical texts like the republic, gallic wars and the iliad. e.g. for the Republic, there is a time span of 1300 years before the first written copy and the earliest copy, and only 7 copies exist, however no one doubts the accuracy of this. the new testament has a time span of only 25 YEARS with 24000 copies!! the greek copies being over 99,5% accurate to one another!

also, science and religion are not mutually exclusive. in fact many scientists who believe in the Bible like Francis Bacon, Galileo, Isaac Newton, Charles Babbage. in fact in the 20th century, 2/3 of nobel laureates in science and medicine were christians.

The Bible is said to be the single most accurate source document from history, by William F. Albright and Nelson Glueck. These 20th-century archaeologists were not Christian however they agreed the Bible to be accurate and reliable. When compared to other sources from history, the Bible is accurate in its places, dates, and records of events, including the life and death of Jesus. No other religious documents come even close.

For example, contemporary documents and inscriptions outside the Old Testament mention the names of over 40 different kinds of various countries mentioned in the Bible. The Bible mentions many places that are now modern countries, including Israel, Egypt, Italy, Greece, Syria, Iran (Persia), Iraq (Babylon/Mesopotamia), Turkey (Asia Minor), Ethiopia, Libya, India, and Saudi Arabia (Midian/Arabia).
These external sources have always been consistent with the times and places associated with them in the Bible. In fact, nothing in ancient literature is as well-confirmed in accuracy as the Bible.

sorry i got lazy for the last few paragraphs, as you can see i copy and pasted the text from a research task i did earlier on the trustworthiness of the Bible haha

about agriculture and food production, i think the answer is just everything in moderation.
we have needs and wants and we should do our best we can to preserve the environment, however we can achieve our needs as a species if we prioritise the environment over EVERYTHING if yk what i mean

TESSIE wrote: "Domestic violence isn't okay no matter who the perpetrator is or what their gender is.
A big problem we do face is that female abusers are commonly found not guilty just because they're found to b..."

about comparing bodies being online harrassment, but not being a right - is it not a right to feel comfortable in your own body? to not have your body be picked apart by strangers because 'theyre tough and can deal with it'? obviously, the rates of sa towards women are much much higher than mens, and often more severe, but rights are still rights. yes, we need to focus more on women's physical rights and bodily autonomy than men but that doesn't mean we can ignore any of mens' if we really want to achieve gender equality

and how this relates to men's rights - my main claim is that if we want to achieve full gender equality, we have to address, in depth, the rights of ALL genders. just because the issues of one gender are smaller or seem less important, doesnt mean that we can ignore them or the fact that these are also the rights that impact all of us so greatly

also yeah there is a very strong stigma of women being caregivers but those are the sorts of traditional views that are (or should be) very different today. i really think there should be a cultural shift that promotes fathers being a key role in a child's life as well as more mothers in the workplace, because in reality, caregiving is a responsibility for BOTH parents (also think about single fathers). a father isn't any less of a parent/carer than a mother. and even if a mother is the main caretaker, the father needs to be there to support& help the mom and kid (sorry i have said that point way too many times but its important).
'men do not need time with the child since women are expected to take care of the child and household immediately after giving birth,' however realistically this is really unfair, the expectation for women to recover from childbirth on their own while simultaneously managing all the household responsibilities too. this is also kind of contradictory with the other claim about men not needed that much pat leave because women go through so much harship and men dont.?
also about men not needing that much time with their children, i strongly believe that BOTH parents need to be equally present in their children's life. by not doing this we are just reinforcing the stereotype that men are unecessary in a child's early life which directly impacts child development and emotional bonding in the long run
sorry those thoughts are all over the place but i hope you get what i mean

sieraqvt🇻🇳 semi-ia (school) wrote: "i think a lot of ‘men’s rights’ are more human rights than just men’s rights. like paternity leave, maternity leave is also not very high and it doesn’t even really exist in sole places. that seems..."

exactly what im trying to say, these rights affect both women and men however we're labelling them as only womens issues and ignoring the other aspects of it

TESSIE wrote: "alice (lana del rey's version) wrote: "TESSIE wrote: "Domestic violence isn't okay no matter who the perpetrator is or what their gender is.
A big problem we do face is that female abusers are com..."

yes women's bodily rights may be prioritised, but does that make other issues (including other things that impact women like literally the raising of their child) any less important?