'Aussie Rick'’s Comments (group member since Jun 13, 2009)

'Aussie Rick'’s comments from the THE NAPOLEONIC WARS group.

Excellent summary, Scott. " ... unchecked French violence fed the hatred of the population, securing a never-ending source of insurgents." - Still an issue occurring in our times!

Some great commentary here, really interesting to read!

That was a perfect summary of what the Spanish guerilla forces were required to achieve against the occupying French.

Scott wrote: "The Fatal Knot: The Guerrilla War in Navarre and the Defeat of Napoleon in Spain

An..."

You have to wonder if anything the French could have done differently would have made any difference. We know that some of France's policies could win over city folks and the elite, but nothing seems to have worked in the countryside with the peasants and the clergy which at that time were the backbone of the nation.

Betsy wrote: "Have finished the book, which basically stops with the end of 1813 since the author doesn't really consider the battles in France as part of the Peninsular Campaign. AR, you were certainly right ab..."

I felt the same way Betsy but it certainly provided a very good overview of the whole campaign.

Scott wrote: "The Fatal Knot: The Guerrilla War in Navarre and the Defeat of Napoleon in Spain

A ..."

Great post Scott! We keep on seeming to have to re-read the history books on guerilla warfare eh!

The ratio of men executed seems out of proportion but then I suppose Mina wanted to make a point and quickly. Sadly, the Germans adopted a similar system in their later wars.

Betsy wrote: "Very true, however, the Prussians and Austrians surely loved their homelands too, but they never resorted to the extreme guerilla warfare of the Peninsula. Russia did to a greater extent, but not l..."

Religion was a factor, and maybe hard living made hard people less forgiving and not touched by the enlightened times as was the rest of Europe.

Betsy wrote: "The Peninsular War seemed to bring out the worst behavior in its particpants. There was bravery and courage, of course, but from the minute French crossed the border and also took possession of the..."

I think when people are fighting on their own soil and they feel that they could lose everything they love, then anything is permissible to repeal an invader. Sadly and invariably, that leads to atrocities committed by both sides

That was a very interesting post, Betsy! Hard to argue with this statement:

"Why do we hesitate in lifting the veil that hides the atrocities, outrages and insatiable rapacity of these gangs who so unjustly usurp the respectable name 'patriot'...Woe on us if our salvation is to come from such men."

Betsy wrote: "Fighting a war with allies at your side can be difficult as we well know from WWII, but the relations between Wellington and the Spanish at times almost reached the breaking point as in 1812-13 aft..."

I liked this statement; "In short, the French would be driven across the Pyrenees with the help of a revived Spanish army, or they would not be driven at all."

To the point and accurate!

Scott wrote: "The Fatal Knot: The Guerrilla War in Navarre and the Defeat of Napoleon in Spain

He..."

Pretty gutsy move but one that paid huge dividends!

Betsy wrote: "Splendid article, especially the map and the painting of Rowland Hill. Have never seen it or the one of Soult.

Can just imagine what might have happened if the Spaniards had been let loose in France."

The BritishBattles.com web site is a pretty good resource for any conflict involving Britain.

"The Spanish Ulcer" - Wellington and his forces have finally pushed the French out of Spain and his now considering the invasion of France, but without his Spanish allies:

"By this time, the army's logistical arrangements were in complete turmoil and the Iberian contingents especially were starving to death. This, coupled with their natural desire for revenge, made them potentially more of a liability than an asset. As Wellington explained to Lord Bathurst:

'Our success and everything, depends upon moderation and justice, and upon the good conduct and discipline of our troops.
... Hitherto, these have behaved well, and there appears a new spirit among the officers ... to keep the troops in order. But I despair of the Spaniards. They are in so miserable a state, that it is really hardly fair to expect that they will refrain from plundering a beautiful country, into which they enter as conquerors; particularly adverting to the miseries which their own country has suffered from its invaders. I cannot, therefore, venture to bring them ... into France, unless I can feed and pay them ... Without pay and food, they must plunder; and if they plunder, they will ruins us all'."

The fear of a French insurgency, such that which plagued Napoleon in Spain was preying on Wellington's mind!

Battle of the Nivelle:
https://www.britishbattles.com/penins...

"The Spanish Ulcer" - This incident took place during the fighting in the Pyrenees in 1813. It appears Soult was not prepared to use a momentary advantage over the British forces which caused one of his generals to lose it:

Nevertheless, rejecting the entreaties of General Clausel, the marshal refused to budge and, after a bite of lunch settled down for a nap, further exasperating the general who was later observed 'leaning against an oak tree ... beating his forehead with rage, muttering "who could go to sleep at such a moment?"'

The Battle of the Pyrenees:
https://www.britishbattles.com/penins...

"The Spanish Ulcer" - Again, the British army under Wellington suffered grievous losses in storming a French held fortress. It appears success on the second attempt was only achieved due to an exploding French magazine, otherwise that attempted would have most likely failed as well with substanial British casaulties.

Storming of San Sebastian:
https://www.britishbattles.com/penins...

"The Spanish Ulcer" - The defeat of Joseph's forces at the Battle of Vitoria had ramifications outside of the Peninsula:

"The emperor, locked in negotiations with Russia and Prussia, received the tidings of Vitoria at Dresden on 1 July and was utterly dismayed by the magnitude of his brother's defeat. Already faced with a difficult situation in Central Europe and struggling to persuade the Austrians not to join the coalition against him, he now learnt that Joseph's army, although 100,000 strong, had been driven back and that half of the Peninsula had been lost in a few weeks. This had a profound effect on the vacillating Austrians and it soon became evident that Vitoria had cost Napoleon not only Spain, but also all hope of a political settlement in Germany. Such incompetence could not go unpunished and, directing Soult to return to the Peninsula to try to redeem the situation, the emperor banished Joseph to his estate in France and recalled the luckless Jourdan."

Battle of Vitoria:
https://www.britishbattles.com/penins...

All good posts Scott and Betsy!

Reille's words would have made you think though:

“your volunteers were destroyed in Castile. The fields of Belorado are stained with their blood, and their sad bodies remain behind as sustenance for birds ... "

Good article, interesting that he was wounded fighting 'so called' allies!

Scott wrote: "Perhaps the malaise beginning to grip the French commanders had already set-in in 1812?

I suspect Soult's enthusiasm for pursuit was more about finding new art and jewellery treasures for his burg..."

Scott, that's very harsh about Marshal Soult - 😂😂😂

"The Spanish Ulcer" - After Wellington's failed siege of Burgos in October 1812 and his subsequent retreat from King Joseph's approaching forces, it appears that he dodged a bullet:

"However, Joseph had forsaken all ideas of a pitched battle and, to the disgust of his enthusiastic men, stopped all but Soult's cavalry from continuing the chase. Foy angrily recalled:

'We had an army stronger by a third than Wellington's and infinitely superior in cavalry and artillery. Confident expectations of victory was in every man's head. The chance had come of beating the English - perhaps of driving them from the Peninsula. This grand opportunity, so splendid, so decisive, with so few adverse chances, was allowed to slip.'

Foy spoke for many senior officers and the truth of his comments cannot be denied. Had Wellington been forced to fight, it is difficult to see how he could have avoided sustaining considerable losses, if not catastrophic defeat. About 8,000 of his men had already abandoned their colours, thousands more were sick or exhuasted, everybody was cold and hungry, the cavalry and artillery were virtually paralysed and, with the collapse of the logistics network, munitions were in desperately short supply. As it was, Soult's cavalry did a remarkable amount of damage, taking 600 prisoners on 16th November alone. The next day this number was doubled and included General Edward Paget - recently appointed as Wellington's second-in-command. By the end of the retreat, the Anglo-Portuguese army had over 5,000 men missing. Many had been captured, but most had perished from exposure and hunger."

The Spanish Ulcer: A History of Peninsular War by David Gates