Lori’s Comments (group member since Dec 31, 2017)

Lori’s comments from the 2018: Our Year of Reading Proust group.

April wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "More on that poor kitchen-maid. Proust never has a word to say about this, but from my readings of other French authors around that same time, the fact that they employ her, unmar..."
wow I never knew that re Swann and Charity!

Elizabeth wrote: "Most critics think that Elstir is a sort of composite of several of the Impressionists; the Narrator (and Proust himself, actually) has the highest regard for him. Re Oriane: the Narrator is beginn..."

Ah. Great. Thank you.

April wrote: "As an artist, he/she may not think so, or even merely in that direction, but Oriane is not an artist..."

Ah. So Proust might be contrasting how the narrator thinks Oriane, an elitist member of society, would view Elstir vs how the narrator might view him as a fellow artist. Maybe this is also a commentary on his view of Mme Verdurin- that while Mme Verdurin ranks lower in stature in society, she might perhaps have a more discerning judgment when it comes to artistic talent-- appreciating Elstir's artwork and Vinteuil's sonata.

Thanks!

April wrote: "My grandmother, naturally enough, looked upon our exodus from a somewhat different point of view, and (for she was still as anxious as ever that the presents which were made me should take some art..."
Re 'print,'--- In French the word is "épreuve." I'm not 100% sure, but in the context it feels to me like the word would mean a trial or a test- to do something that wouldn't be as easy but would be more profitable intellectually - to follow the route taken by Mme de Sévigné rather than a direct route

I've just finished reading a section talking about Oriane- how discerning and particular she is as to who she chooses to include in her circle. Swann knows that Oriane would consider Elstir a clown. But I never had such an impression of Elstir when the narrator would visit him in his studio in L'Ombre. Any thoughts about this? About how we as readers are supposed to perceive Elstir?

April wrote: ""But after all the special attraction of the journey lies not in our being able to alight at places on the way and to stop altogether as soon as we grow tired, but in its making the difference betw..."

Sentence before mentions something to effect that now one would make this voyage by car. (Sorry I don't have English text, only French) So alighting and departing when one wants would make more sense. I also think the subtext has to do with language, staring with one word (or name or sign or person) and alighting upon another in the narrative journey of writing.

I love that you are asking questions of such close reading, April!

In the book Proust's Cup of Tea: Homoeroticism and Victorian Culture the author talks about the meaning of tante as 'queen' or gay man. And the taking of tea as follows in the citation /explanation below (all of which I find quite interesting)


https://newrepublic.com/article/90327...

"This "avuncular" aesthetic lineage, which also includes a shady uncle and the elusive figure of Charles Swann, is established in the famous dipping of the madeleine in the tea, a sort of mnemonic "open sesame" that sets the novel in motion when, one day, Marcel suddenly recalls the flavor of herbal infusions of his childhood and, by extension, the lost paradise of his aunt's house. According to queer theorists such as Jarrod Hayes--a young scholar whose essay "Proust in the Tearoom" appeared in 1995 in the Proceedings of the Modern Language Association, suggesting that even tea can acquire a gay meaning in Proust--"the paradise regained by Proustian memory could be Sodom." Tea parties, teacups, teapots, and tearooms turn out to have a decidedly gay inflection. Secondary sources such as Paris Gay 1925 and Colin and Mevel's Dictionnaire de l'argot reveal that the word theiere (teapot) "first appeared in print with a homosexual connotation in 1890, prendre le the (to have tea) in 1910 and tasse (teacup)." Put it all together, and voila: every time Proust mentions the signifiant tea, he is of course thinking of its gay signifie."

Note to qualify my comment: I'm not a fan of reductive reading, so I take all this as just one part of the whole. Clearly Tante Leonie as a character embodies so much more than this one aspect. There is so much humor and love in the depiction of Leonie.

And the parallels between the narrator as little boy in his room on an upper floor and Leonie in hers -- and Francoise taking care of both-- are wonderful.

Elizabeth wrote: "Here's something that no one ever mentions...Swann, in the beginning of their affair, has a "little shop girl" he is having a fling with...he has long, hot rides w/ her in his carriage right before..."

I had forgotten this from the first time reading, and was surprised by it!

I really do not know why Swann becomes so smitten with Odette. It's something that has always puzzled me.

Quickly looking this up- wondering whether the Symphony in White has to do with Whistler paintings. As usual, unpacking this opens a world until itself- Proust connecting all different meanings of snow and white- clothing (the muff), music (Wagner), flowers (the snow-balls, as if snowy weather brought inside and transferred to flowers), art (the Whistler painting, girls in white) - and in so doing Odette - rather loose in morals- becomes virginal and saint-like, rather than the woman in the pink dress as first seen by the narrator with Uncle Adolphe. But this is a quick study, and I may be off-base.

MJD wrote: "For me the extreme level of detail that Proust gives to everything is a double edge sword. In one way, it makes it take forever to read a single scene or even a single thought of a character. In an..."

Yes. It also makes it easier to open the book up and read a few pages virtually anywhere. Which paradoxically makes me not inclined to read the whole book, even when reading through on a continuous and sustained basis offers such a different and amplified experience of the work.

Elizabeth wrote: "No, I don't think so; Bergotte's "companion" is probably his mistress. Norpois is just doing what he does so well--being a complete tool. Another example of the subtlety of Proust's humor; Norpois ..."
so funny, you are so right about Norpois!

When Norpois is speaking disapprovingly of Bergotte with Marcel
(week ending 3/4) , is he hinting that Bergotte is a homosexual? I wasn't sure.

Mary Anne wrote: "This is a good video to get a sense of Ruskin's importance for Proust; Proust translated Ruskin.
https://vimeo.com/53133740"
thanks. I'll take a look!

Someone on the Proust Yahoo group just posted a link to Reading Proust for Fun https://readproust.blogspot.com/ It's pretty awesome. If you go back in the archives you can find all sorts of material- discussion questions, synopses, comments on the text and many links to content i.e. right now I'm reading the Norpois section-
and am using this to learn more about names and places cited: https://readproust.blogspot.com/2010/06/ There's also a listing of other interesting websites on the right hand side under the archiving.

p.s I just saw that Renee had mentioned this before and it's included in our materials above. Certainly worth mentioning again haha.

Kelly wrote: "Hi everyone! I'm Kelly and I'm about to embark on reading this and joined because I wanted to share the journey.

I read _Cities of the Plain_ in a course back in graduate school and must have made..."

Welcome Kelly! so glad you've joined us!

Not very helpful. She says" 'le grand crack,' as the English say..."

About churches and cathedrals-- I know that Proust spent years reading Ruskin and visiting cathedrals in France, as well as St Marks in Venice, and that it's been said the novel itself was constructed like a cathedral. Still, I don't understand why Proust dedicated so many years to Ruskin, and why the study of cathedrals became the turning point for Proust in his ability to begin the writing of his own novel. Anyone able to shed more light on this for me?

In this week's section Swann gets upset reading the word marble in the newspaper- Les Filles de Marbre, a play by Theodore Barriere. Does anyone know the origin of the idea that lesbians would be called this?

Elizabeth wrote: "To those who are reading in French. In "Mme Swann at Home" [In "Within a Budding Grove"] Odette tells the Narrator that he is Gilberte's best friend: in Moncrieff, she says her "chum, as the Englis..."
if you can tell me the approximate page (i.e. what week of reading) I can look it up for you...

I fell a little behind this week and just now finished section 4. I've found the Swann sections to be a little more baffling in terms of sentence structure. Granted I'm reading in the French, and I've read the Meseglise/Guermantes ways and Martinville sections more times than the Swann intro, but I find myself having to consult the English translation way more often for syntax than prior. The sentences seem longer and wind themselves around more. Has anyone felt this way? And if so, is this intentional on Proust's part, to change the style a little as we move from Marcel to Swann?