Karen’s Comments (group member since Dec 11, 2011)

Karen’s comments from the Off The Shelf group.

It's time to take a look at our nonfiction selection for February! Leave your thoughts/comments here...

I also loved the "black tie" comment. I heard something along similar lines in a British TV show recently - the husband had gotten angry and yelled at his wife. He later apologized for losing his temper. She replied, "You didn't lose your temper. You lost the pretense that you are a gentleman."

Nobody does a put-down like the British!

The entire relationship between the Major and his son is quite provoking. Do you think their differences were related more to the generation gap, or to personality differences?

I think there were considerable personality differences, myself. However, I also believe that generation gaps are more noticeable when there are big changes in the world within those generations. For instance, those who lived through the Depression years tended to be far removed from their children's later prosperity and somewhat flippant, or entitled, views about money and possessions. The children who never had to do without simply could never understand their parents' or grandparents' experiences.

While the son is a complete and total jerk, he is also a product of his era, as much as the Major is of his.

Two uncomfortable truths in this book:

I have to admit that I put this book on my To-Read list a while back, largely because it addressed community prejudice against Middle Eastern culture. I feel that I have a niggling beginning of prejudice here myself, due partly to media stereotypes and partly to personal experience in business. I wanted to face that up front, and hoped Pettigrew would help out.

This was only partially successful for me, because the author "excuses" Mrs. Ali from the typical western view by making her a British native. In a way, she's more British than the Brits! Her family are still depicted with many of the characteristics associated with her ethnicity, though. (The Major's visit to her relative's home at the end is exactly my experience that I would like to overcome.)

Second, and an unexpected, Uncomfortable Truth:

Family members hold grudges and put a high value on material objects/heirlooms. I wasn't expecting that slant to appear in the story (with the Major and his brother, and the twin guns), and it brought up a lot of negative memories and feelings for me. I'm just glad that the Major was able to see what was really important before it was too late - something that doesn't often happen in real life.

Hopefully, everyone has had a chance to get into Major Pettigrew's Last Stand by now. What did you think?

I really enjoyed it (although I had to get through the 1st chapter - it dragged a bit for me).

I found this video interview on YouTube, with author Helen Simonson:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iacTFi...

I found it interesting in her interview that she was "trying" to be a writer (produce the next edgy contemporary novel), when she sat down to write something just for herself - and Major Pettigrew is what came out.

She also comments on the Major and Mrs. Ali both being outsiders, and how that is "the grain of sand in the oyster" - that being different actually is the catalyst in forming a person.

What I want to ask everyone - What do you get from the title? Which point in the story do you consider to be the Major's "Last Stand"? I was torn between the moment he goes and gets Mrs. Ali back, and the scene at the cliff with her nephew. While he defies the local community in going after Mrs. Ali, I lean toward the cliff scene as the real Last Stand, because at that point he stands to lose it all, but goes forward anyway. Or is there another point that qualifies as the Last Stand?

I've begun marking favorite passages as I read, then compiling them at the end of the book for a kind of review sheet. I'm amazed how a nice collection of quotes can actually reflect the whole theme or feel of the book!

p.145 – “I am not loitering,” said the Major. “I am simply indulging in a few moments of pastoral solitude – together with my very distinguished bag, which you covet and of which you therefore feel compelled to make fun.”

p. 148 – “I don’t have space in my head to put up with harmless old gits trying to make me feel bad,” said Amina, folding her arms. “I’ve learned to tell the difference between the people who can really hurt you and those who just want to look down their noses.”

p. 161 - …the Major felt a small spasm of grief. He had been feeling better in recent days and it was a surprise to find that his sorrow over his brother had not gone away but had been merely hiding somewhere waiting to ambush him on just such an occasion.

p. 181 - …Abdul Wahid said, “Only sometimes when we pick and choose among the rules we discover later that we have set aside something precious in the process.”

p. 200 – “I miss being a student,” said Abdul Wahid. “I miss the passionate discussions with my friends, and most of all the hours among the books.”
“Life does often get in the way of one’s reading,” agreed the Major.

p. 253 – He [the Major] had always assumed gossip to be the malicious whispering of uncomfortable truths, not the fabrication of absurdities. How was one to protect oneself against people making up things? Was a life of careful, impeccable behavior not enough in a world where inventions were passed around as fact?

p. 332 – “We must refuse to imagine it and concentrate only on the next step and tehn the next, “ he said, swinging the car into the empty car park. “We do what we can do, and the rest is God’s problem.”

p.351 – [Amina] “But it’s not enough to be in love. It’s about how you spend your days, what you do together, who you choose as friends, and most of all it’s what work you do.”

p. 255 – “They are a motley and ragged bunch,” she [Jasmina] said, “but they are what is left when all the shallow pretense is burned away.”

What passages struck you as particularly profound? Humorous? Eloquent? Post them here (but if they have a major impact on discussion points, please post in the discussion thread as well).

That's why I was so glad to find this course about the Art of Reading. I've had plenty of college course in English, Writing, etc. - but most of us have never really learned how to enjoy a book on multiple levels outside of a classroom.

It's typical of today's society that people have a very egocentric view of the world. If THEY don't like it, then it is no good. I think it is important to cultivate an objective viewpoint; to be able to say, "That wasn't for me, but I can appreciate this aspect of it..." Once we begin to understand one another, all prejudice, pretense, and negativity can fall away. But it takes courage. It takes a lot of courage and patience with yourself (and everyone else!) to get there.

I'm so glad that we have such a number of people that are truly willing to jump in and discover new facets of literature - and ultimately, of themselves!

I've started a series of lectures from Great Courses, entitled "The Art of Reading". It has a TON of great ideas for use in book discussion and general reading enjoyment. I'll be posting some of these tips and tidbits on my blog, if you want to follow along:

http://kbnelson.wordpress.com/2012/01...

The first few points that I liked...

1) When you think about reading as an art, you begin to take it a little more seriously.

2) The idea of artful reading suggests that there is a difference between reading and reading well.

3) Artful reading suggests that you are doing something for its own sake, and is its own reward.

And a helpful tip for all of us trying new genres, authors, and titles...

Reader Tip: Give every book the 50-Page Test. Read the first fifty pages of a new book without making judgments, or giving up. If you haven’t connected with the characters or language by then, feel free to set it aside. But don’t write it off altogether – many readers return to a book they rejected earlier (even years before), only to find that now, they enjoy it immensely.

That's great Leann! I love it! I do accents all the time in my head, and it really helps to play out the story like a movie.

I haven't had any problems with Calibre, although I've noticed that it appears to be developed by someone overseas, which may be why a valid certificate isn't showing with your anti-virus software (not having a certificate does not mean it is a malicious file). All I can say is that everyone I know who has it, has had no difficulties, so it is probably safe to go ahead.

That's what I love about the aim of this group - to try different genres throughout the year. Whatever preconceived notions we have about a particular category are bound to be shattered in some respects by just the right choice of book.

However, isn't it interesting how once we find a book we really love, we go on a search to find another one just like it (thus the popularity of sequels and series). As a librarian, I had people come in all the time saying, "I really loved ________. Can you find me another one like it?" I always had to ask for more details, like what specifically they loved about the book...the love story, the action, the humor. A lot of times, they enjoyed a particular aspect that could be found in another book in a totally different genre they would never have considered, because they thought they liked the original book because of its category. I think that's what I miss most about those days - the "hunt" for the perfect book for a patron. I felt a little like a matchmaker!

Shanan wrote: "I agree that genres are in place for the very reason of grouping them within a certain number of constraints making them what they are. And therefore we find ourselves attracted to reading certain genres for the needs and expectations we have. ..."

Very insightful, Shanan. I wonder what our favorite genres reveal about our "personal needs and expectations". I think I'm afraid to find out!

On the other hand, everyone has a different idea about what a genre includes. For instance, I love mysteries. However, my idea of a good mystery is a title by Agatha Christie or P.D. James - all puzzle, no blood. Someone else, who also professes to love mysteries, can't stand either of those authors, but loves Clive Cussler or Janet Evanovich. They are all classified as "mysteries", but with different sub-genres (cozy mystery, political thriller, and so on). So, even our very idea of genre is subject to interpretation!

Did you hear the real story about James Frey's "A Million Little Pieces"? He originally wrote it as fiction, but his publisher thought it would sell better billed as a memoir. As a result, people thought he was giving his life events (only partly true), and were outraged when it was revealed that large sections of it were completely fabricated. By the time it was all over, people forgot he had just written a good book - it was all lost in the argument over genre. Interesting, huh?

I received two items via a Moderators Group that I wanted to pass along to the membership (yes, there is a group for moderators of a group...). This will help to clarify our rules and standards of etiquette for our interaction here.

A moderator's job includes some of the more unpleasant aspects of monitoring a group of total strangers. As the moderator, and in some ways, protector of this group, there are times when decisive or preemptive measures need to be taken.

On occasion, a person seeks to join a group for the express purpose of using it for lewd and inappropriate contact (suggestive emails, unwelcome photos, etc). When this is brought to my attention - either by fellow members, or via Moderator-to-Moderator communication, I will not hesitate to ban the person from the group and block them from ever joining in the future. I believe this is in the best interests of the people who are here to simply enjoy reading. If the ejected person feels that they are being prematurely judged, that is too bad. They will have to find another group that has the time and inclination to find them "innocent until proven guilty". We are too busy reading, to wait and see if they are going to behave themselves.

Secondly, there have been a number of incidences on Goodreads groups where members have personally attacked one another in posts, called "flaming". Here is the expanded definition of our Rule #2: Play Nice, copied from the Moderator Forum:

Treat other members courteously, as though you were a guest in their home.

Nobody has the right to abuse anyone verbally, to spam the forum, or make offensive remarks, including but not limited to posts that include racism, sexism, or comments derogatory to another person’s sexuality, religion, life choices, etc.

Arguments are a part of the forum experience. Opinions on this site are diverse and sometimes directly polarized. We all love reading threads where there are many opposing ideas, but any differences must be addressed with respect.

We will not tolerate when individuals go beyond these boundaries— it’s not fun to read and destroys community atmosphere. Keep the arguments restricted to books and ideas, don’t attack people.

In an internet forum, especially one in which members don't necessarily always know each other face-to-face, it's hard to make others see your point. The goal of the discussion is to make a point and respect others' opinions even if they differ.
For example, there should be no name-calling or personal attacks. It's fine to say your argument is stupid, its not fine to say you are stupid.

Be mindful of your language. Obscene language and profanity are not conducive to good discussions. Also, keep in mind that phrases, tones of voice, sarcasm, and the like do not generally translate well to text. Things may read as offensive to some, that were not intended that way.
-------

I hope that these updates will assist everyone in contributing positively to the discussions. When everyone speaks respectfully, the group remains inviting for all kinds of opinions and views. Thank you for your cooperation and support in making this a great group!

I think Kat brings up an interesting point about wanting Molly to be more proactive. Regardless of whether it is needed in this story, it's fascinating to me to see how we as readers change over the generations. I was always so frustrated over Jane Austen's characters who seemed to just sit back and wait for men to get a clue. BUT, they are a product of their era. They have to be read within that context.
Do you think that Last Unicorn should be read within the context of its genre? Its target age group? Or should a story deliver everything you desire no matter what? (Of course, this leads to the more uncomfortable question of why we don't read certain genres. Do we find romance to frivolous? Whodunnits a bore? Classics are outdated, or fantasy to trite?)
Incidentally, can you think of a book that is a shining example of the best in its genre - when you wouldn't read another thing in that category? I'm going to rack my brain for some jewels like that, and get back to you.

It just goes to show that beauty is in the eye of the book-holder. I don't care a thing for Last Unicorn (sorry Leann, it's like Neverending Story - I appreciate that you love it, but it doesn't go deep enough for me), and while Pettigrew was a slow first or second chapter, I absolutely love the rest!

BTW, I just read an interview with an eminent professor of history, who said that he often recommended books he didn't like, just for the great discussions! Now that's a man that likes to broaden his mind!

I can't think of particular sites myself, but I'm definitely going to check the ones Robin suggested! I have a Nook, so the format is different from Kindle, however, I use a free program called Calibre that converts e-books into the correct format for your reader so you can read a greater variety. I was able to get the entire Agatha Christie collection for free, then convert it to Nook!

Finished the monthly book discussion? The chosen title not your thing? Looking to stretch your brain just a bit farther?

I challenge YOU (insert Uncle Sam with pointy finger here) to the following:

Read a book with the number "12" in the title!

This could be Twelve Sharp, or Twelve Red Herrings, Twelve Angry Men, or how about The Twelve Dancing Princesses! Any title containing the word "twelve" or number "12", or a "12" within another number (like 2012), will qualify for the challenge. (Just do a Goodreads search for "twelve" and you'll get all kinds of great ideas!)

When you finish your pick for the challenge, post it here, and offer your comments and recommendations!

This discussion thread is for the comments related to Major Pettigrew's Last Stand, by Helen Simonson.

Some thoughts to consider/share...

1. Which character do you like the most and why? The least and why?

2. What passage from the book stood out to you?

3. Are there situations and/or characters you can identify with, if so how?

4. Did you learn something you didn’t know before?

5. Do you feel as if your views on a subject have changed by reading this text?

6. Have you had a life changing revelation from reading this text?

7. What major emotion did the story evoke in you as a reader?

8. At what point in the book did you decide if you liked it or not? What helped make this decision?

9. Name your favorite thing overall about the book. Your least favorite?

10. If you could change something about the book what would it be and why?

11. Describe what you liked or disliked about the writer’s style?

So glad you could join us, Robin! Like Paula said, we are a diverse group of readers, but since we are all connected by our mania for books, it all works out!
I'm so glad you are a Fiberista too! The only thing harder to keep up with than the to-read shelves on Goodreads, is my stash on Ravelry! I love spinning, knitting, crocheting, weaving, and quilting - and have the privilege of teaching classes at our local yarn shop.
I hope you'll get an opportunity to vote for the next season's reads at our polls (they'll be closing on Wednesday!), and we certainly look forward to hearing your thoughts on any new titles you come across.
You can also find me on Facebook - Karen Pfister Nelson, or at http://kbnelson.wordpress.com
Welcome, and Happy Reading!
Karen