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i think i don't know what gender neuter means... i'd like to know. thank you.

jo wrote: "i think i don't know what gender neuter means... i'd like to know. thank you."

Hi Jo, gender neuter basically means having no gender. in a physical sense this would mainly be seen as having no sexual reproductive organs (ie no breasts, no penis, no vagina, no testicles etc). But it's also possible to be gender neuter mentally only, the same as other transgender people eg male trapped in a female body.

I hope I explained that ok.

perfect. thanks. can i also ask why you focus on the concept of transition in your description?

jo wrote: "perfect. thanks. can i also ask why you focus on the concept of transition in your description?"

Oh, well I was trying to make sure other genderqueer and trans identities didn't get lumped in with it, if they didn't concern gender neuter and asexual.

Also I was just making sure it was clear that I wasn't focusing on the purely physical external attributes as the only way to be gender neuter.
Does that make sense?

yes. hey, i have another question (and then it'll be it!). does gender neuter = asexual, or is sexual desire consistent with gender neuter?

jo wrote: "yes. hey, i have another question (and then it'll be it!). does gender neuter = asexual, or is sexual desire consistent with gender neuter?"

Gender neuter would generally indicate asexual, since if physical there is no way to reproduce, and no hormones to produce a sexual desire. But I'm pretty sure you can have one without the other, it might be uncommon, but I'm fairly sure it can happen. Sexual desire might not be entirely a hormonal thing. Or the neuter state might not be physical or entirely physical. I'm probably not medically qualified to state either case for sure tho! :)

okay. do you think this is a theoretical concept, i.e. it doesn't happen in real life? it seems to me that people might very well consider themselves gender neuter and still feel sexual desire. in that case, though, i wouldn't see the difference from androgynous, genderqueer, etc.

I don't think it's only theoretical.
I'm not sure often it could occur physically in humans, it might occur uncommonly in people who end up classed as intersex, but all that stuff tends to be rarely documented detailed, because it is kind of private.
Technically I suppose a eunach would be physically neuter also (if everything external were removed).

I know for sure that there are people who consider themselves neuter, and I know for sure that they can feel sexual desire.

As for labeling, it is down to what the individual prefers. genderqueer is an umbrella term that can cover lots of options, and certainly neuter could be one specific inside that. I believe its important to make the distinction between a general overall term and a specific term.
Androgynous is very similar to neuter in my mind, and I personally wouldn't mind using that term, but specifically I think of it as meaning 'indeterminate, or inbetween genders' rather than No gender. It's a subtle difference in my mind. Then again like I said, it's probably down to personal preference.
I suppose you could also say that becaus feeling sexual desire is part of the body they're stuck in, you can't give that as a reason for people not to be considered gender neuter if that is how they see themselves. Doesn't a male-to-female trans still get an erection, and that doesn't negate their beliefs and choices.

this makes a lot of sense. thanks for engaging with me on it. i love thinking about these issues. also, i love that you emphasize the multiplicity of possibilities and the fact that people get to define themselves.

No problem, thankyou for asking questions! I love thinking about these issues too, it was very cool to talk about them with you :D

Sath wrote: "jo wrote: "yes. hey, i have another question (and then it'll be it!). does gender neuter = asexual, or is sexual desire consistent with gender neuter?"

Gender neuter would generally indicate asexu..."

Actually the two aren't linked at all. Asexuality is a sexual orientation, it is the lack of sexual attraction. It has nothing to do with being trans*, intersex, or reproduction

- A cisgender asexual who plans on having children

Yes thanks Twila, I was wondering if I should come back and ammend any of this...

I've left it all as it originally was since its not a very busy list anyway, but I could go back and edit the description.

I'm a bit more clued up on the difference between asexual and agender now than I was in 2011.

In fact I've since discovered that I'm asexual myself! So good to meet you. :)

I was linked to the list by a friend who has been helping me find books with asexual characters on a lit blog I run, a few of the books on here are on it.

Learning is great I recently discovered that I was asexual as well. About this time last year I think.

Have you meat any local aces? There's two in my school district, one of them is my squish or as I refer to her, my pale-mate.

if y'all don't mind my asking, how does one discover that one is asexual? isn't it something that's pretty obvious to one? also, do you feel asexuality to be a identity trait, a passing phase, or something else entirely? (and i do realize this demonstrates a tremendous amount of ignorance.)

i guess one discovers the same way one discovers one is gay? yeah, that would make sense.

jo wrote: "if y'all don't mind my asking, how does one discover that one is asexual? isn't it something that's pretty obvious to one? also, do you feel asexuality to be a identity trait, a passing phase, or something else entirely? (and i do realize this demonstrates a tremendous amount of ignorance.) "
Asexuality is an sexual orientation and therefore an identity trait, not a passing phase.

And you are correct in how one discovers they are asexual, though it can be rather difficult as many LGBT blogs/facebook pages/other social media outlets rarely include asexuality in their posts. I've noticed that a lot of the asexuals I know felt the same thing I did before I found out it was an orientation, broken or that something was wrong.

i see. so you discover it as an orientation, whereas you might have felt that was something wrong with you etc.

yeah, it makes sense. and of course those of us who were queer youths in countries were queer "didn't exist" felt much the same thing, though, of course, we KNEW there was *that* sexual orientation, unlike probably many of you.

thank you.

jo wrote: "i see. so you discover it as an orientation, whereas you might have felt that was something wrong with you etc.

yeah, it makes sense. and of course those of us who were queer youths in countries..."
You're welcome

Twila wrote: "I was linked to the list by a friend who has been helping me find books with asexual characters on a lit blog I run, a few of the books on here are on it.

Learning is great I recently discovered ..."

If you've managed to find more different books for your blog, I'd be really interested to see it!

And no unfortunately I've never met any local Aces, and just the one online friend I think. I guess I'm still working on it ;)

Sath wrote: "If you've managed to find more different books for your blog, I'd be really interested to see it!

And no unfortunately I've never met any local Aces, and just the one online friend I think. I guess I'm still working on it ;) "

Here it is, I've gotten a few submissions here and there but as for right now there's not many updates book-wise as I can only read so fast.

Hey. I would like for my book Sweet, Echoing Howl to be removed from this list. Is that possible?

Perhaps the Gender Bending list would be better for this story as it stars two genderqueer characters? No agender characters are present in this book.

Also, transgender is a gender descriptor for someone who identifies with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth. Not all transgender people have body dysphoria and want to change their body. Though some transgender people fit the born in the wrong body trope, it can be problematic to push on all transgender people.

Awesome list though. I certainly am familiar with agender and asexual people and would love to read more stories about them.

Oh, I'm sorry. I have another correction. Though scientifically it is correct to describe someone who is asexual as someone with no sex characteristics, it can be problematic to describe agender people this way -- and I'm pretty sure the term you are looking for is agender.

In the transgendered community, it isn't common to use the term neuter gender or asexual to describe people who do not identify with a gender identity. It can be very offensive actually because someone's gender identity has little to do with their sex characteristics. Plus, agender people have sex characteristics so it isn't even accurate.

Also, I noticed some asexual stories posted on this list about cis-characters who do not experience sexual attraction. Cis is a term to describe people *with* gender (the one assigned at birth).

Using asexual in the title is confusing for voters. This is because the queer community uses the term asexual to describe people with no/low sexual attraction. It has nothing to do with their sex characteristics.

This list would be more accurate (and also less offensive, to be honest) if it the title described Agender Characters, not asexual or gender neuter.