Ubik discussion

First off this is going to be a discussion of the book which probably requires spoilers of many sorts.

To me I loved the book, but five minutes after reading the final line something struck me, there's a number of issues with Joe Chip's "reality".

The biggest problem is according to Joe, the bomb was closest to Runciter, yet in his "reality" everyone but Runciter got stuck in Half-life.

In fact while thinking about it, I was struck with a few plot holes that made me wonder if the problems with the plot is actually intended to deepen the question of reality. If in fact if Philip K. Dick took the time to leave these error in place to deepen the mystery, it impresses me quite a bit.

I actually think it is possible that Joe Chip's "reality" is a second reality inside Runciter's reality, as the final chapter isn't clear where that takes place compared to the chapters leading up to.

Any other thoughts on the book?

People call this PKD's masterpiece and yet seems to me like there are too many loose ends for this to be a masterpiece. I liked reading Ubik but I don't think this is his best. Ubik does, I think, require a re-reading. Personally I think Man In the High Castle was Dick's Masterpiece.

i loved the book and its my favourite PKD to date that ive read. I loved the ending as it left and still leaves me thinking about who was really in half-life, when Joe's face appeared on the coin was both of them or just joe or just glen in half life?

Frank wrote: "First off this is going to be a discussion of the book which probably requires spoilers of many sorts.

To me I loved the book, but five minutes after reading the final line something struck me, ..."

I don't think the bomb was described as being closest to Runciter, actually. The passage reads:

"...His rotund, colorful body bobbed about, twisting in a slow, transversal rotation so that now his feet, rather than his head, extended in Runciter's direction...."

The bomb was in the air when it exploded and it was Don Denny who yelled, "They killed Runciter, Mr. Chip. That's Mr. Runciter."

For all we know, they could have been in cold-pac from the start of the book and the whole setup and trip could have been Jory's creation. After all, it was Don Denny who revealed himself to be Jory in Chapter 15, remember? Not only did Jory manifest himself as Don Denny at one point, but he also manifested himself as Pat in Chapter 13.

The question is, at what point did Jory take over those characters? When he said he did (as he told Joe in Chapter 15?) -- or at some other point?

The willingness to leave loose ends is likely why it gets called his masterpiece. Frankly, I find the loose ends and contradictions to be, in themselves, statements. Just when you think that Joe's reality is the confused reality, the half life, you are told that Runciter is himself in a half life all his own. We don't know who is in the "real" life, if anyone. We don't know the perpetrator, we don't know who is the hero. All this is what elevates the book from Inception esch (not knocking the movie) entertainment to a thoughtful mind twister and a classic.

TL:DR. the book is not limited by the loose ends, it is defined by them.

I totally agree with Nathaniel, it's the fact that it's not wrapped up neatly that makes it great. PKD is not known for having everything tied up neatly and having it all make sense. What I thought was interesting about this book was that there was a coherant explanation for what was happening, that was then totally blown apart at the end and made you re-think everything that had happened. I think the entire point of PKD is to make you question the reality around you and the answers you are given and that is why this is one of his best.

I never really considered that Mel..

The "it all makes sense" actually being subverted actually is quite interesting. The simple fact that you accept what you read as long as there's a correct sounding and tidy explanation is a core of my reading, and you're right, it completely gets subverted by the end of the book.

was pat conley, s dole melipone ? s dole melipone disappears and you don't hear back from her, unless I missed something

I agree with Nathaniel and Mel. Dick's work is all about questioning one's concepts of reality. Added to that, I think you must take into consideration both the times and the economics of the time in which it was written. This came out in 1969, the height of they psychedelic era. And Dick was right there in the middle of it. And at the time his own personal economic situation was such that I really don't think he had the luxury of poring over his work doing countless revisions and edits. He needed the cash. His work of that time really feels like he was shooting from the hip and just riding the tide.

I had a very different interpretation and it might sound completely bizarre. The first thought that came to mind was that Runciter himself could be in half-life but then it seemed much too well established that it was Joe who died by all the reasoning given in the previous chapters. What I thought was that maybe just as Runciter manifested himself in Joe's world in order to reach out to him, it's possible that now Joe was trying to do the same. And in the effort thereby, getting his face on the coins. This reaching out could be to maybe thank Runciter for the messages he left Joe in the half world which saved him. Also, maybe an extended gratitude for the cans of Ubik supplied by Ella. And the irony of it being that Joe who was always financially inadequate in real life is trying to pay off Glen in half-life. "This was just the beginning" could possibly mean that now that Joe has somehow found a way to make contact with real world, many of the other half lifers will attempt to and succeed in doing the same in the future.
Any takers?

Another interpretation: Runciter and his crew died. They're being fed simulations by Holis's team - he's finding out what they know and using their talents. One of the things that didn't add up was when Runciter goes to visit Ella in the "real" world, he's not given a simulated environment to look around and find Ella in. So then why would he suddenly be able to do this with Joe? And why/how would Joe know how to project his face into coins in Runciter's world? As far as Joe knows, Runciter isn't in his realm. Also, why would Pat, who can change the past volunteer for something in which she's killed, and then somehow not be able to reverse it in her last moments? I almost want to think Pat is still alive, except that Jory claims he ate her.

There was many conclusions that the reader comes to think of like it could be this or oh it could that, the last one was that he was in half life that evil life form was eating him and that ubik would save him. The twist with the coin at the very end opened up the list of any number of other possible outcomes. And then the book ends. As far as all the possible outcomes there was a part of me that really wanted chip to get out of it and have the whole problem solved, but man I really enjoyed this book.

Joel wrote: "was pat conley, s dole melipone ? s dole melipone disappears and you don't hear back from her, unless I missed something"

Since Ubik is a speculative novel I going to give you my point of view:

S Dole Melipone was the telepath that infiltrated into the Moratorium in order to intervene Runciter mind . He was so powerful that managed to fool the prudence agencies. So S Dole Milipone is probably as well Jory Miller or Bill and Matt.

Before the Luna explosion several inertial meet the ugly Jory Miller for example Tippy, Apostos, Francy.
Jory announced to them he was trying to catch them also remember several inertial before that were killed trying to neutralize some powerful Hollis psi.

I presume the following scene is correct: Runciter is alive under telepathic control of Jory or Melipone, the group of eleven inertials were killed in the moon and place in Zurich Moratorium by Runciters orders, Jory or Melipone was destroying the inertial afterlife (semi life) using psi powers.

According PKD wife Ubik is the faith to continue alive, but maybe Ubik is a remaining anti-psi powers in the afterlife


I think Pat Conley knew what did happen on moon and she tried to avoid/revert that fatal end but this time due the complex psi plot she was not able or was neutralized in order to change the future. She admit that after she gave back the Mick contract to Runciter the output for the inertials would be the same. She did that because she was part of the plot?

Something that I paid attention was the Inertials between the first and the second group after Pat change the past.

The first group was five woman and five men plus Pat
The second group was four woman and six men plus Pat

I though maybe a different player could help to change the Luna outcome, and that is why she change that but then ... wait anti-animateur in an explosion! how convenient! (Remember Runciter tried to change him with a anti telepathic guy ).


Pat could be part of the psi plot along with G. G A , Nina Freede, Melipone or Jory and Hollis.

Maybe Jory is an independent entity , maybe Jory is Sarapis the one Ella hates so much.

Mike wrote: "
For all we know, they could have been in cold-pac from the start of the book and the whole setup and trip could have been Jory's creation. After all, it was Don Denny who revealed himself to be Jory in Chapter 15, remember? Not only did Jory manifest himself as Don Denny at one point, but he also manifested himself as Pat in Chapter 13...."

I am with you in this.

I think Tippy was already dead when she answer the Runciter call in her department. The chapter 5 says something like "when she wakes up to the sound of her phone she saw a cloud of colored bubles ..." that is very similar to Ubik spray

Rodrigo wrote: "I think Tippy was already dead when she answer the Runciter call in her department. The chapter 5 says something like 'when she wakes up to the sound of her phone she saw a cloud of colored bubles ...' that is very similar to Ubik spray "
Aaaaaaaaah! I have read the book in it's entirety only once, but started reading parts of it again. Before Tippy answers Runciter's call, the telepaths talking to her are named Bill and Matt, they look the same, and have a scrawny description. Then, when Joe first appears to meet Jory, he states: "Sometimes I call myself Matt, and sometimes Bill. But mostly I'm Jory." I guess that answers that. Although in theory, they might all still be alive in some weird stasis... And maybe Jory is Meliphone and Pat if he supposedly eats everyone - a human telepathic amoeba... This could go on forever.

After reading the book I tried to logically figure out the possible scenarios of who is alive/in half life.

Scenario A - Runciter: HALF LIFE Joe Chip and Gang: HALF LIFE
Scenario B - Runciter: ALIVE Joe Chip and Gang: HALF LIFE

Scenario C - Runicter: HALF LIFE and Joe Chip and Gang: ALIVE
Scenario D- Runciter: ALIVE Joe Chip and Gang: ALIVE

Scenario A/B seemed most likely to me, the fact the Ella and Jory were present and the strange nature of the world that they are in being more suitable to something happening in a dream world (half life) opposed to a real one implied that Joe Chip and gang are the ones in half life. The question however is if Runiciter is there as well. The fact that Joe Chip's face appears on a coin implies that he is but for some reason isn’t able to interact directly with Joe Chip (perhaps due to his half life casket not being close enough to Joe and he himself suffering from the delusion that he is alive as Joe Chip did). Or Runciter is alive and somehow half lifers can affect the ‘real’ world hence the Joe Chip coin at the end.

In the less likely scenario C the Joe Chip coin at the end implies that Runciter is in HALF LIFE and Joe and the gang were alive. The regression of time occurs due to the power of Pat Conley, this is the world that she created but got consumed by it somehow, I remember Denny saying to Joe in chapter 15 that it got her as well and that “she couldn’t believe it” and was surprised. Somehow Runciter being in half life can communicate with this strange world. Although Runciter may also be alive along with Joe (scenario D) as the coin changing being common in both their respective worlds but for some reason Pat kept Runicter away for Joe perhaps knowing both of them together would be able to see through the illusion.

There are many other possible scenarios and no matter what you think up it will have a plot hole but questioning reality is what this book makes you do.

For sure that reminds me of Nolan's movie Inception (2010). In my opinion, everything in the book happens in a question of minutes while they're being controlled mentally by the powerfull telepath Melipone and don't have any idea about that. Many interpretations for sure, I agree with all of them and had a lot of fun reading this book! :D

Just finished the book, and this is my interpretation: All of them are dead, in cold-pac, killed by Jory while sleeping/dreaming. Long before the trip.
Also: Pat is also one of mr. Hollis' people, but was killed too.
Why?

1.- Tippy "dreams" about "facing one of the strongest opponents hired by mr. Hollis", which calls himself Bill and Matt.

2.- Three of the crew (Francesca, Apostos, Tippy) mention having been visited by Bill and Matt (Jory) in their "dreams", or better said, while sleeping. Some of them mention Shakespeare, other the odd shape of the guy(s).

3.- Joe himself hears directly from Jory: "sometimes I call myself Bill or Matt", right after he uses the Ubik can on Denny.

4.- Jory said to Tippy "I'm going to get you". And later we see that indeed, he kills Wendy first, Denny, etc., all of them, one by one.

4.- Pat. Pat was never tested, their field was never tested. Why? She must have changed the future until she was able to figure a way to avoid being tested. She even could change time up to one year in the past (i.e. their marriage), so she could change things in the past until Joe Chip left his testing equipment in the car.

5.- If they are all dead, that explains why Tippy was able to arrive first! Runciter is very impressed that she could arrive so fast even though she was the last one to get notified.
Phew! my 2 cents :)

6.- Jory is one of Hollis people.
Runciter says "a very wealthy family must be paying a lot so Jory can be with all the other half-lifers", that "family" is Hollis!

7.- The coins are some kind of communication between the half-lifers.
That must be some kind of mental interference/communication in the other person's mind, just like we see at the beginning when Runciter visits Ella and Jory gets inside her mind.

Joel wrote: "was pat conley, s dole melipone ? s dole melipone disappears and you don't hear back from her, unless I missed something"

Perhaps s dole melipone was an anagram? Perhaps "Lied Moon Sleep"
:P

Deem Pile Loons
Lied Lone Poems
Doles Pemoline,
Lodes Pemoline, as in "Tons of the 30's 'stimulant' pemoline"

I thought it was an anagram as soon as the name appeared because it sounded even stranger than all the other names in the book. I came up with "on sleep mode", which kind of makes sense.