The Aeneid discussion

We often do not ponder our origins, focused on living in the now. While it is important to not dwell on the past, it is also critical to recognize where we came from and our ancestor’s struggles. The epic poem, the Aeneid, by Vergil, explores the founding of Rome by the Trojan hero, Aeneas, and the many trials that he faced during his journey.
Some people believe in fate or destiny, that we are meant to have a purpose. Indeed, one of the Aeneid’s main concepts is the idea of fate. In Roman times, fate was not just your predetermined future; it meant duty and following the will of the Gods. Throughout the poem, there is an internal conflict in Aeneas: he knows it is his destiny and responsibility to found the great nation of Rome, but the burden is heavy and he wants to live his own life. In fact, the first words we hear from Aeneas are, “Why could I have not died on Trojan lands! How difficult it is to found Rome!” Thus, Vergil’s hero breaks the mold: he is not always brave and strong: he has doubt. This adds more dimension to the character: Aeneas puts Rome ahead of himself. When his wife and his father die, he continues on. Thus, he differs from other heroes, like Odysseus, who just wants to make it home, rather selfishly. Vergil makes his hero worth rooting for: he is something more than himself, he is an ideal. By making Aeneas so devoted to following his path, Vergil emphasizes the importance of following fate. To the Romans, duty was not optional, and he believed much the same.
The Aeneid also communicates a message about love: love must be feared. Vergil sees love as an unpredictable, powerful, and dangerous emotion. In Book 1, Aeneas meets Dido, Queen of Carthage, and she falls madly in love with him. Right from the beginning, Vergil reminds us that love will be her downfall. In addition, love can stand in the way of duty, the most important thing in life. Dido distracts Aeneas from his journey to found Rome. He almost decides to stay in Carthage, but the god Mercury reminds him of his fate. One again, Aeneas puts the needs of his people before his own desires, demonstrating why he is considered a hero. Love not only distracts, it kills. When Aeneas leaves, Dido is crushed, and ends up killing herself. Dido, once a strong, independent ruler, was reduced to a suicidal, emotional wreck because of love. Think of what her life could have been, what she could have done for her kingdom if she hadn’t been destroyed because of love?
Not only is the Aeneid a tale of a miraculous hero, but it also provides great insight into the Roman way of thinking. Vergil was a Roman citizen, at the time of Augustus, around 27 B.C.; at this point in time Rome was in its golden age, expanding militarily and culturally. However, this success was due to a strong code of ethics and values, characteristically Roman. Vergil’s views evident in his poem can represent those of the Roman people as a whole. For example, Vergil emphasizes the importance of family. Aeneas’ father is his mentor on his hero’s journey. Aeneas later visits the underworld in order to get some fatherly advice. Aeneas’ son, Anchises, also comes with him to Rome. Later, Anchises will rule over the city for thirty years, carrying on the legacy. Vergil believes responsibility in a family is to carry on the name and promote its status, just as Anchises did by expanding the kingdom. The idea of honors is also intertwined with family: you represent your family, so you must act honorably, or you are besmirching your name. Battle is always conducted “honorably.” When Aeneas fights Turnus, his enemy, they meet in the middle of the field and pledge to return the losers body to their family, as was custom during that time. Earlier in the work, Turnus fought Pallas, one of Aeneas’ allies, and desecrated his body by stealing his armor and precious belt. After Aeneas defeated Turnus, he was about to let him live as a prisoner, but seeing Pallas’ belt, he changed his mind and killed him. Here Vergil makes his point: if Turnus had acted honorably, he could have lived. It is better to loose and die honorably than win and live shamefully.
The Aeneid is worth reading. Yes, having been translated from Latin to English, some of the phrasing is difficult to understand. After all, Vergil doesn’t believe in periods or putting the subject at the beginning of the sentence. However, the poem presents a unique slice of Roman history and culture. Hundreds of books have been written about one of the greatest civilizations in history, but how many of those authors actually lived in Rome? Vergil presents an interesting perspective: Rome grew to be so powerful, but had humble origins. In order for anything to become strong, it must develop solid foundations. No road to success is easy: Aeneas lost three quarters his men and almost all of his family, but carried on. Sometimes inner-strength is more important than outer brawn. After all, muscle atrophies, but perseverance doesn’t have an expiration date. And neither does the Aeneid.

This is a different kind of post ... is it for school or something?

The first line struck me as being a little unusual, but only because I seem to be surrounded by memes and even advertising messages that seem to exhort us to spend more time living in the present, the now, rather than less.

But anyway, when you wrote this were you thinking of an interpretation of Aeneas for people living now or for people living then?

If it's for living then, maybe it might be useful to think about why Romans wanted to place their origins in the Hellenic world - just a thought.

It might also be interesting to think about why/how the Romans were so dismissive of romantic love and sensuality and why they saw it as an sign of effeminate weakness and an obstacle to the will to power.

Maybe it might be interesting to ponder whether or not 'typical' masculine behaviour today (in the West at least) still conforms to some of the same ideals.

Is Vergil an alternative spelling? I thought it was Virgil with two 'i's?

It's all just fan fiction for Romans that dig Homer and want to suck up to Augustus...and (just a personal opinion this bit) a pale imitation at that.
Also, Aeneas is rubbish...even in the Illiad he has to rely on divine intervention to get out of most scrapes.
As to the comment on "Odysseus, who just wants to make it home, rather selfishly"...selfish?
Well, I suppose one of the differences between the Roman and Greek views is down to that, state verses individual.

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "It's all just fan fiction for Romans that dig Homer and want to suck up to Augustus...and (just a personal opinion this bit) a pale imitation at that..."

Spot on, for me. Though I thought I was Making a Statement by giving it only four stars. The Statement was mostly this.

@Old-Barbarossa ... it's always interesting when someone has a strong opinion of something.

I was surprised you disliked it so much, the translation I read I thought it was fascinating. One of my favourite scenes (after the escape from Troy) is the mini-Olympiad they decide to have on their journey. It's amusing to see how attitudes to age, physical appearance and masculinity come in.

Like the cruel laughter when (I forget the character's name) and older, bald guy falls off the end of the boat and as he's flailing about, thrashing and almost drowning, the rest of them burst out laughing that 'baldy' is about to die and make no immediate effort to rescue him.

Then there's the boxing competition with iron rods in the gloves and so on.

Anyway ...

Nik wrote: "...the translation I read I thought it was fascinating. One of my favourite scenes (after the escape from Troy) is the mini-Olympiad..."

I read the Fagles after his Iliad and Odyssey, so I assume there was a continuity in the standard of translation.
As to the games, there is a scene in the Iliad of funeral games that does it better (again, purely my opinion)...and has folk slipping in shite during the footrace...slapstick and poo jokes by Homer...can you top that Virgil?

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Nik wrote: "...the translation I read I thought it was fascinating. One of my favourite scenes (after the escape from Troy) is the mini-Olympiad..."

I read the Fagles after his Iliad and Odyssey, ..."

OK point well-made ... though I still like them both.

Is Vergil an alternative spelling? I thought it was Virgil with two 'i's?

Vergil is the original spelling. "Virgil" became popular later, supposedly on association with either virgo "virgin" (which Vergil apparently was, or had the stereotypical characteristics of a virgin in that culture- modest, effeminate, etc) or virga "wand" (ie magic wand, because legends grew up about Vergil's magic powers and the Aeneid was used in divination)

As to the games, there is a scene in the Iliad of funeral games that does it better (again, purely my opinion)...and has folk slipping in shite during the footrace...slapstick and poo jokes by Homer...can you top that Virgil?

Personally, I think Entellus punching the prize bull in the face tops everything :)

I translated portions of this book in college. Seriously fun challenge. Made the story much more meaningful to me.

Misty wrote: "I translated portions of this book in college. Seriously fun challenge. Made the story much more meaningful to me."

Right on. I never appreciated the Aeneid until I read parts of it in Latin. Now it's one of my absolute favorite books, even in English.

"love must be feared" I totally agree with you - Adam Gottbetter

Terrifying to think that Vergil on his deathbed ordered for the entire manuscript to be burned.

Even with its "imperfections" we can be whole heartedly glad that Augustus ordered it to be saved.

I think that the historical context of Virgil is something that should be taken into account when someone reads the book. Its true that it is quite fan fictionalized, but the only real literature available in novel form during the time period was from Homer. And much of Virgil's merit comes from his ability to convey Roman ideals through the character Aeneas. Also his idea of a "Hero" was radically different than that of Homers.

I wouldn't disqualify anything just because it's "fanfic". You could even consider Jane Eyre to be fanfic, yet it's a very popular novel and it has a great merit on its own. Fanfic can be wonderful or awful, depending on who and how they do it. In my experience, it tends to be better when it takes a minor or secondary character and takes a considerable distance from the original story.

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "It's all just fan fiction for Romans that dig Homer and want to suck up to Augustus...and (just a personal opinion this bit) a pale imitation at that.
Also, Aeneas is rubbish...even in the Illiad h..."

The Greeks valued their society greatly. As the King of Ithaca, Odysseus had a duty to his family, to his land, and to his people - he needed to return and rule over them, otherwise the place would dissolve into chaos (which it had in his long absence). To our modern eyes, perhaps it seems like a selfish thing to do, but back then it would have been unthinkable for Odysseus to just give up and forget about his homeland.