Fantasy Aficionados discussion

Since we've already read Book 1 of the Malazan Book of the Fallen, we're starting the post with Deadhouse Gates. Feel free to comment or question Gardens of the Moon though.

I feel like this book could be skipped and come back to. Book three is so epic that I feel like it needs to be read first. I would only recommend to read the first and third book. The only reason to read book one is to get a background for some of the characters in book three.

Where's dear friend Kruppe? Really though, I'm saddened to see that some of my favorite characters from GotM are not in the Dramatis Personae.

Fred wrote: "Where's dear friend Kruppe? Really though, I'm saddened to see that some of my favorite characters from GotM are not in the Dramatis Personae."

My biggest problem with this book is that the few characters who came from the first one are the least interesting - and this book does not make them any better, either.

Oh my... those two comments are making it harder for me to find the motivation to tackle this brick of a book. Oh well, the post has been created and I'm committed now.

Oh no Fred-take it from someone who read the whole series, this book is lovely!

I have rtead DG twice and liked it even better the 2nd time. Erikson is creating another arc here, which will meld with the people still in Genebackis later on -no worries!

I think that is the thing about Erikson that is so awe-inspiring...the scope of these stories. At this point it seems like it's impossible for all these threads to untangle in any meaningful way, but it really does!

Thanks Maggie, you give us hope. I agree, even with book one, you can already tell that this series is going to be EPIC! But still, dear old Fred's friend Kruppe is going to be missed... hehe.

You will see plenty of him in MoI....lol I giggle even thinking about him!

But this book will make you appreciate Quick Ben and Kalam...and Coltaine

Kevin wrote: "I feel like this book could be skipped and come back to. Book three is so epic that I feel like it needs to be read first. I would only recommend to read the first and third book. The only reason t..."

I couldn't disagree more with this statement. And I hope any future readers don't take this suggestion. I was a huge fan of the first book from the moment I started reading. It does take a bit to get used to. You will feel lost at first. But it's worth it in my opinion. I mean...ugh...I want to do spoilers but I won't. I do think for the rest of the series to have the full impact though you CANNOT skip the first book.
As for the second...why all the hate for the second book? I loved the third but I love the second too. There's parts that annoy me. Felisin. Ugh. But Fiddler is my #1 favorite character of the whole series and well...nevermind, spoiler, but the second one cannot be skipped either.
Instead of saying skip the first two and read the third I'd say read the first two and wait to see if you want to continue after the third. If you don't like any of the first three you probably won't like the others.

So....are we buddy reading these??? Cause you're really tempting me...

Yes we are buddy reading the series. There are two of us so far. Feel free to join in!

Traci wrote: "Kevin wrote: "I feel like this book could be skipped and come back to. Book three is so epic that I feel like it needs to be read first. I would only recommend to read the first and third book. The..."

My problem with the second book is that it can be summarized in 4 sentences:

A bunch of people wonder around in the desert.

A rebellion is brewing; nobody cares.

A bunch of people still wonder around in the desert, they already forgot their original purpose of going there in the first place.

A rebellion finally happen.

I agree that Coltaine is a really good character, but he does not even have POV. Felisin almost beat Thomas Covenant in being the biggest douche in any fantasy book - and that is saying something.

Parts about the Chain of Dogs are awesome (and tragic).

dang---I would rephrase it like this:

1. An army tries to get to safety across a desert, but are horrifically slowed down by the large group of refugees that attach themselves to them. The army decides to protect them and move forward as best they can, despite the sure knowledge this is going to get them killed. Their trek across the desert becomes known as the Chain of Dogs.

2. A young and naive girl from a ruling family is betrayed into slavery by her own sister. Some other slaves escape and bring her along. They too have to get across the desert despite horrible odds.

3. The whole area is in a state of rebellion, as the natives, led by a prophecy called the Sha'ik, rise up against the Malazan army

4. The army is betrayed in soul-wrenching way, right after managing to save a great number of the refugees

I really dont think 15 year old girls can qualify as douchebags

I agree on one point. If Erikson had spent as much time on Coltaine as he did Felisin the book would've been much stronger. And would probably be my favorite in the series. It's not. But I do love it. Fiddler. I love Fiddler.
I didn't care much for Felisin either. I almost stopped reading it my first time because of her..

Fred wrote: "Yes we are buddy reading the series. There are two of us so far. Feel free to join in!"

I'll probably play catch up and join in late. I've read the first three more than once (Gardens: 4, Deadhouse: 3, Memories:2 - I think) but have only read 4-10 once. And I'd like to read them all again. Even Gardens. Might as well make it 5.

Tracii a few of us are going to tackle the series again early next year in the bridge burners group, love you to join us.

Traci wrote: "Kevin wrote: "I feel like this book could be skipped and come back to. Book three is so epic that I feel like it needs to be read first. I would only recommend to read the first and third book. The..."

Well, I know a lot of people that hate the first book, but enjoy the second book a lot more.

I may try to read this with everyone. I never read book 10 because I felt like I needed to read them all again first. And I never got around to it.

Lee wrote: "Tracii a few of us are going to tackle the series again early next year in the bridge burners group, love you to join us."

....Joined. =)

OK, I just finished the first two chapters. This is going to be a good one, I can feel it. So about ascendency... do you consider it becoming some kind of god? I'm looking forward to reading more about Mappo and Icarium. They are very intriguing up to this point.

More like an interim step before becoming a god

I think of it more as immortality...which I know sounds like the same thing, but it's not.

Traci wrote: "I think of it more as immortality...which I know sounds like the same thing, but it's not."

They briefly touched on the subject what it means to ascend in the books I am currently reading, The Bonehunters. Makes it a little clearer.

Evgeny, I read the series as it first came out and many people always came back to Deadhouse Gates as their favorite book of all.

The tale behind the Chain of Dogs really made me tear up just reading it, and I couldn't disagree with you more about skipping the book. It is a must-read.

I never said Deadhouse Gates should be skipped. It is a very good book (with some flaws, IMO). The book which deserves to be skipped is Midnight Tides; it has a lot of pointless characters, really heavy-handed humor and should be shortened by at least 1/2

they get back to Lether though---you need MT to be able to read Reaper's Gale!

Ha. Guess I'm really in the minority here. I like Deadhouse Gates more than Memories of Ice. And I loved Midnight Tides. The beginning was very slow but in the end I consider it a favorite.

I don't think you can skip any books as if you do that you won't get the entire picture. What pointless characters would you be referring to Evgeny? I thought overall Midnight Tides was an excellent read and really sets things up for the later books.
Personal fave for me is The Bonehunters but they are all excellent in their own right.

I tried reading this book a year or so ago and had to put it down about 1/2 way through.

I'm trying it again now, with this buddy read, and really want to get through it and make my way through the series.

Damian wrote: "I don't think you can skip any books as if you do that you won't get the entire picture. What pointless characters would you be referring to Evgeny? I thought overall Midnight Tides was an excellen..."

Out of the first 6 books I read, my persona favorite is The Bonehunters, too. As to pointless characters in Midnight Tides: what purpose did Tehol served, other then providing completely out of place crude humor? None of his action mattered - other than getting several people to die trying to protect him while he did not care? The same with undead thief.

My impression is that 90% of people of Lether with POV did not matter.

Evgeny wrote: "Damian wrote: "I don't think you can skip any books as if you do that you won't get the entire picture. What pointless characters would you be referring to Evgeny? I thought overall Midnight Tides ..."
Out of the first 6 books I read, my persona favorite is The Bonehunters, too. As to pointless characters in Midnight Tides: what purpose did Tehol served, other then providing completely out of place crude humor? None of his action mattered - other than getting several people to die trying to protect him while he did not care? The same with undead thief.

My impression is that 90% of people of Lether with POV did not matter.



-blink-

-Im assuming you havent gotten to Reaper's Gale yet? Believe me-all the different story arcs come together.

Maggie wrote: "Evgeny wrote: "Damian wrote: "I don't think you can skip any books as if you do that you won't get the entire picture. What pointless characters would you be referring to Evgeny? I thought overall ..."

Not yet.

I think you'll find that Tehol is one of the most significant characters in the book - but you can't know that yet till Reapers Gale.

I almost didn't make it through Gardens, and put it down for a long time before picking it back up. All I can say is, I am damn glad I pushed through because Deadhouse...well, I don't want to give anything away. I wouldn't mind owning these all in hardcover. What a nice series that would be to have in first editions.

The new edition hardcovers would look better on the shelf. The first edition covers suffer from a classic case of cartoonish cover art. The cover of the first book alone can make any fantasy aficionado doubt the quality of this series.

I've been told that this series is a lot of work, but if you push through the first few books, the pay off is huge. I hope that's the case because I'm only done with DG, still a long way to go.

Mimi wrote: "I've been told that this series is a lot of work, but if you push through the first few books, the pay off is huge. I hope that's the case because I'm only done with DG, still a long way to go. ."

We are doing a reread of the series at http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/8...

We are almost finished Memories of Ice but we only read about 4 chapters a week and have chapter by chapter non spoilery discussion.

I'd like to start a buddy read (no spoilers) from Deadhouse if anyone is interested...

David Sven wrote: "We are doing a reread of the series at http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/8...

We are almost finished Memories of Ice but we only read about 4 chapters a week and have chapter by chapter non spoilery discussion. "

Thanks. Just what I was looking for.

So hopefully someone can answer a question for me. I am partway through book 1 of Malazan series... Is there a good side? There are sooo many characters -I fear I am getting lost.

Sandy wrote: "So hopefully someone can answer a question for me. I am partway through book 1 of Malazan series... Is there a good side? There are sooo many characters -I fear I am getting lost."
Use the back of book index. I was lost too, but the end is pretty good. They are pretty difficult to get into at first.

Sandy wrote: "So hopefully someone can answer a question for me. I am partway through book 1 of Malazan series... Is there a good side? There are sooo many characters -I fear I am getting lost."

I think that's your judgement call--I'd read some reviews and assess. For people that love it, it seems like they enjoy the thoroughness of the world as well as the experience of re-reading and getting more understanding each time.

Personally, I feel like I have a TBR list that's hundreds of books long; I don't find spending hours and hours rereading the same series just so I can finally understand the books worth it. But plenty of people enjoy that sort of reading.

It might also depend on the time you have available--if i only have short chunks of time, a detailed, complex book doesn't work for me.

the first time I read it, I had to take notes! But then I love that sort of stuff, I find it a challenge, and am psyched when I figure it out....lol

really, you are supposed to get lost at first...it all clicks together about 3/4s of the way through.

But is it your classic good verses evil or just two groups struggling for total domination? Cause it seems like thousands of people are dying for the empress to win total domination over everyone.

I agree with Maggie - it certainly does start to come together in the latter half of the book.

I (re)picked up DG after finishing GotM about a year ago and am thoroughly enjoying it. Powering through with reading and through Audible (Ralph Lister is an excellent narrator). I expect the momentum will pick up from here as I ish into book three, etc.

The writing is really well done so it is easy to keep reading. Will muddle through - thanks for the insight...

This book is getting very good. At chapter 10, I am finally starting to remember who everyone is! This is a very well written book. Thanks for encouraging me to stay with it.

It isnt really good vs evil, more like the pointlessness of war.....if that makes sense

I can see that more as I go along. Call me an immature reader - but I like a purpose in a characters struggles.

true, but it's also true there is no such thing as pure evil or pure good. In books where we see more of the empress, I think she really believes she does what she does for the good of the citizens.....

then again, the roads to hell and all that.

Oh so true, Maggie!!! I like the fact that Paran and Tattersail express doubts as to their roles. Quite the characters.

Finished with the first book. On to book two. Although great reading - it was a slow read because you had to stop to remember all the players. I really liked this book.