Ancient Historical Fiction discussion

A recent discussion in another group reminded me of this book and its sequel, The Animal Wife, which (sorry, Sandra!) I liked so much better than Jean Auel. I haven't read them in a while, I have to go see if I still have my copies, but I remember them well.

The author was a student of animal behavior—specifically, cats, dogs, and elephants—and that knowledge is reflected in the series.

Whee-heee.
I loved these books. So much so that I followed her, not only into her writing on wild animals -- The Hidden Life of Deer: Lessons from the Natural World (so far for me) -- but anthropology too, that I think aided her fiction. She lived among these people in Uganda Warrior Herdsmen. Interesting woman all round.

Yes, me too. I read The Tribe of Tiger and her companion book The Hidden Life Of Dogs. I still remember her account of her encounter with a lion "trained" by the Hottentots and her report of the untrained lions of the Namibian national park. Very compelling stuff.

Also, on a lighter note, the cat who attacked a baguette because its shape said "snake" to the cat.

I live with cats, so I think of her almost every day. But I, too, loved these books. They brought the prehistoric world to life for me as Auel never did.

I've only read her fiction. I wasn't that impressed with the first one, "Reindeer Moon", but "Animal Wife" has inspired some of my own writing. I had never encountered the--apparently universal--folklore of the shape-shifting animal captured by a human male and foreced to be his wife. Since reading Animal Wife I've made a study of those folktales.

It does seem universal. I've used a swan-woman legend from Siberia -- he steals her coat of feathers as she bathes and so imprisons her for a year, very familiar.

Then there's the fox-wife, but she's a seducer. I've seen fox-wives widely, Korea, Manchuria, China, and Japan where I found this fiction, it's okay: The Fox Woman. With fox-wives, consistently from what I've found, the vixen isn't the victim, bad joke.

Then there are bears and women. I use a song about a girl abducted by a bear who 'laments to her grave' when her father slays him and rescues her. Daddy, you killed him. Elsewhere I find out that bears were attracted to women's scent, monthly I understand, so that women didn't go into the woods at the wrong time. That snippet came from Native Americans, and shed light, I thought, on the bear song from Mongolia.

I'd love texts on this theme.

Bryn, thanks for the introduction to The Fox Woman. I'll add it to my list of books to read.

I've also used the swan-woman legend: simiilar story, although the setting is Celtic Britain. It's in a story called "Awakenings" which will appear in my collection "In the Balance" which should be out in about two more weeks.

A Celtic version of the swan woman is the selkie, seals who can assume human form. The legend has variations (don't they all?), but one says that if a person hides the sealskin, the selkie must remain on land, usually as the husband or wife of the captor, until s/he finds and can resume the skin.

The swan woman has Celtic tales associated with her, too, though, as in the Daughters of Lyr. I read a novel with that theme once, but right at this moment I can't recall even enough to look it up on Goodreads.

I'll be using the selkie legends in my next novel (roane, actually, who were the Irish seal-folk and much gentler than selkies, but had the same animal wife stories). The book still needs a title. If anyone wants to vote you can go to my website for a description of the book http://sandrasaidak.com/

Or, if anyone wants to vote on what title would most interest you without knowing anything about it, the top condenders are:

The Seal King's Secret
On Magical Tides
Saltwater Kin (original title)

Without inspecting what your book's about -- because people do see the title on its own -- I like the three; the first and third more than the second (nice in itself but doesn't tell me enough... too fantasy...) and I think I like your original title most. Pretty sure I do. There you are, that's 1st and instant impressions, which is what count I hear.

I agree with Bryn on 2: too general. But I also think Saltwater Kin is too general (I know this is insane, but if I saw this on a website I would think saltwater taffy).

So I vote for 1, or a variant of 1: The Seal King, say.

Have you checked Amazon.com to see how many other books have similar titles? It can be quite enlightening.

Interesting that you plan to incorporate this idea in your WIP!

Thanks Bryn and C.P.!

My friend who helps with the technical and marketing sides of the business actually did research Amazon for similar titles. When he was done, he thought The Seal King would be the best title.

I did too, except for one thing: the story's not about the seal king. He's an important character, but doesn't appear until half-way through the book. The story is about a mortal woman who's escaped a life of abuse and found sanctuary on enchanted beach, where she gives birth and raises her son--who, it turns out is destined to be the next seal king.

I want a great title, but not one that misleads potential readers.

Hmm. Well, if the seal king is a catalyst, he could still be in the title without making it misleading. But it sounds as if that title doesn't feel right to you. And titles must, I think. Otherwise, you never feel quite right about the book.

The Seal Queen? The Seal King's Wife? The Seal Prince?

I can go on pretty much forever, but I'll stop before I become TOO annoying. ;)

I too don't want to annoy the author (well, I know I'm sensitive about my titles!!!). Just want to ask, was 'Saltwater Kin' your own title, while you were writing? I don't know, it has a feel, it has a music. I'm mushy on it.

To me it suggests the old legends such as when I read in The Chukchi Bible this people's mother was the whale, and the whale is kin. They may have used that very phrase and that explains why I like it...

The Seal Queen is seriously tempting me. Again, it's not exactly who she is, but at least it's consistant with the protagonist being a woman--who does become a hero of the roane.

That's good to know about the Chukchi Bible. The title Saltwater Kin was suggested by my husband, while I was still writing the first draft (many years ago). It felt right at the time, but now, the marketing side of me (newly grafted!) wants something that will clearly place it in a specific mythic fantasy, i.e. the roane/selkie legends.

Beats the Seal King, and that's not because I'm a feminist. I like the sound. You have to say both words slowly.

I wanted everyone on this thread (including Elizabeth Marshall Thomas if she happens to drop by) to know that I've decided to call my novel The Seal Queen! Thanks C.P. for the suggestion, which I never would have thought of on my own.

It should be out late spring this year. I'll add a mention on my author thread when I'm a little more sure of the release date :)

Ooh, cool! You're welcome. Can't wait to read it.

I was just reading about swan maidens yesterday, in Islamization and Native Religion in the Golden Horde: Baba Tukles and Conversion to Islam in Historical and Epic Tradition, of all places (yes, Bryn, I am determined to finish this book one day), and thought of our discussion here.

C.P. wrote: "(yes, Bryn, I am determined to finish this book one day)"

You'll do better than me, then. I had to start to skim largish portions, and I still have a bookmark stuck in it.

Ahem. I too am skipping largish portions. But I hope to have skimmed the remaining 80 pages before too long. I think I may have mined it for what I can use already, but since he is talking about the Nogai and I am writing about the Nogai, I feel I should make the effort.

But I will admit without prompting that searching Wikipedia for pictures of Tatar breakfast foods and potential trails from Voronezh to Kazan, not to mention lolling about with The Twelve Clues of Christmas, is way more appealing! :)

I probably need to to start my own author's thread on this group, but since my announcement is related to Elizabeth Marshall Thomas, I'll put it here:

I have just published my first collection of short fiction. One of the stories, "Awakenings" was inspired by "Animal Wife", so I direct fans of that novel to check out my story of a fox woman who's forgotten who she is, and the swan maiden who helps her remember, set in Celtic Britain.

The book is called "In the Balance" and I think I've successfully attached it here, but I'm not sure. Someone let me know! Sometimes Goodreads drives me crazy!


In the Balance

Link worked for me. Congratulations, Sandra!