Classics Without All the Class discussion

Wow! Done? Tell us what you thought. Good? Bad? Cursing the people who voted for it (especially if it was you)? Don't hold back!

Are you kidding, Karena? It's only the 5th day of January and you finished The Age of Innocence? How did you get through all the drivel? Pardon me if I offend anyone but I really can't get into this book and I read The Sound and The Fury, so I can read difficult books. But to me, all this Age of Innocence is about people getting together strictly to talk of other people who they deem beneath themselves. Am I being ridiculous?

I finished yesterday.

Jcurtis wrote: "Are you kidding, Karena? It's only the 5th day of January and you finished The Age of Innocence? How did you get through all the drivel? Pardon me if I offend anyone but I really can't get into ..."

I didn't finish it, but in case people have read the book before I was preparing for them or anyone who had spare time on their hands.

I read this novel before and thought that it was very slow and very dry. I will laughingly say that even the movie was slow and boring! Haha! It is definitely one of my least favorite classics. That is just my own humble opinion however. I am sure that some people really enjoyed the novel. Didn't they??

If I ever manage to read more than 10 pages without falling asleep and someday finish this I'm certain I will not say I enjoyed it for so far I have not.

I have to admit that I had started this last month and had put it down because other novels had called to me. But this time, once I started again, I flew threw it. I did like being immersed iin the world of Archer and his stifling society. I became fascinated with May by the end of the novel. She who seemed so unaware appeared to be the most aware. I was impressed with her ruthless behavior to protect hers. My favorite scene was the farewell dinner for the Countess, when Archer finalled realized what was really going on. In some ways, he was the most naieve character in the whole novel. My one major complaint was the ending. Overall, I am a fan of Edith Wharton. I had read The House of Mirth years ago and I was not disappointed by this.

I read it first, and was not particularly impressed, so I thought I'd try to go through the audio version, since I had some tome. It made me notice some funny lines that I had missed, but for the most part I was rather bored the second time as well. A few bits I enjoyed, including the end where the son and Newland Archer were discussing the differences, and the son, whose name I forget, said that his parents' generation were much more aware of one another and their feelings, and that his generation didn't communicate, despite being more free with their actions. But between every amusing little chunk like that, I feel like I read through at least ten little gossip sections, which bore me in real life, that are meaningless fluff to me when in a fictional book.

I had a very hard time reading this book the first time round. For this club I am listening to it via iTunes. It is much easier to follow the heavy description used via audio. I think this time I will enjoy the book much more.

I think what makes this hard for me is that the subject matter is completely unimportant.
These scandals and marriages and all this unsaid stuff...it's ridiculous.
At no point does May declare her pregnancy. It's just implied. Everything is implied.
I had to watch the movie to connect some of the dots.
It was just tedious. This story, told today, would be much different.

I'm only about 2/3 through, but find it similar in the fact that society is fascinated with celebrity gossip to this say. Who is with whom, and which Italian villa are they staying at this winter. Then there are those who are still constrained by their conventions. I find it funny that the book says a gentleman (of the upper crust) would never go in to politics. hahaha

I've only just begun reading this book, and I was surprised by the amountof humor in the first chapter.

"...an unalterable and unquestioned law of the musical world required that the German text of French operas sung by Swedish artists should be translated into Italian for the clearer understanding of English speaking audiences."

How the press "learned" to compliment the opera audience rather than the performers. "It was Madame Nilsson' s first appearance tha t winter, and what the press had already learned to describe as 'an exceptionally brilliant audience' had gathered to hear her....."

"It was one of the great livry-stableman's most masterly intuitions to have discovered that Americans want to get away from amusement even more quickly than they want to get to it."

I'm glad I didn't live during this period .everything was so superficial; all about appearances. Everything made a statement whereby you were judged by your peers.....your clothes, furniture, your butler's stockings.How boring where the most Iimpotant thing you did each day was pick out the "right" clthes. No wonder they gossipped so much.....boredom, and hoping to redirect everyone's judgements away from yourself.

Hi everyone, I really wasn't sure about this book until 50 pages in and then something clicked. Yes, a lot of it was dull - New York society, clothes, opera blah blah blah but I think it was meant to show how the upper class at that time lived and socialised. Archer realises how superficial everything is through the Countess and her attitude to life and I quite enjoyed watching his journey.

I am having so much trouble focusing on this book. I have a hard copy in my hands, and audio on my iPod. I have read/listened to it at all different times of the day and evening. It is just not working for me. I'm afraid that I am going to buy into my husband's philosophy: Life is too short to struggle with a book you just don't enjoy!

I am only on Chapter 3, bur so far I wish I could draw or Pinterest all the imagery between the clothes, homes, Opera house, ballroom, people, etc. The words are boring, but the imagery in my head is fun!

I loved it. The author's acute descriptions of the various clothes and houses, etc., is the perfect echo to the artificial attitudes of upper-class New York society at the time. And because Wharton herself was raised in high society, we understand through the character of Archer, as she digs into his psyche, that the people did have progressive thoughts, and yet the maintenance of order was always a top priority. (At the end of the novel we see a complete reversal of attitudes, especially towards marriage.)

Archer, far from innocent of any misdoings, is for a time, I believe, truly in the dark about what everybody around him already knows about his relationship with the Countess. There are points in the novel that are truly startling when he discovers this knowledge.

Unfortunately reading this book is a tedious struggle for me. I have to keep rereading pages because I either zone out or fall asleep. It's just so boring! And it really doesn't help that the only copy my local library has is in large print. It is such a laughable terrible situation.

Wow.
I finished it last night. Once I made it into the second half, I couldn't put it down.
May surprised me the most. At first, I thought she was just some clueless woman that just wanted to make sure her man was happy, but I think she knew all along what was going on and that's what makes her so interesting to me. She kept pushing Archer to be nice to Ellen and to take care of Ellen.

Everyone is saying how boring it is and well, the book is relatively boring. But it really reminded me of watching Downton Abbey. A few years off, but there were a lot of similarities.
And the ending. I loved it. I have every intention of watching the movie next to see if I can pick up on some things I've missed. It's free on Amazon prime, btw.

I loved everything about this book from the very beginning. I found it very witty and humorous, as well as heartbreaking in some scenes.

While I understand how parts could bore a reader, I find the critique on a society that cares about trivialities very relevant to today's society, especially in America. Moreover, the idea of being in love with someone that you should not have pervades through all of time.

I liked all of the main characters, and I found myself almost in a moral quandary trying to figure out whether I wanted Newland to be with May or Ellen.

I wholly enjoyed this book, and I am glad that it was voted in because I may never have read it otherwise.

Kaileigh wrote: "Wow.
I finished it last night. Once I made it into the second half, I couldn't put it down.
May surprised me the most. At first, I thought she was just some clueless woman that just wanted to make ..."

May surprised me, as well! I didn't care for her until almost the end of the book when I realized how observant and sneaky she had been the whole time. But also how strong she was to watch her husband dabble with her cousin and plot a way to keep him.

The last third of the book does pick up I had to force my way through to that point. A few highlights (view spoiler)[may telling of her pregnancy in such a conniving way. May telling her son of his father and Olenska. Archer living to aee how all the trivial parts of society no longer mattered with the younger generation to see how foolish society had been. (hide spoiler)] . The ending was well done.

It took me a while but I finished this afternoon. It was a slow book for me, but I found the writing so good it was hard to speed up. The people fascinated me (and repelled me, mostly). The society depicted is so foreign to me but based on other books I've read it is an accurate picture of the upper classes in New York at that time. I find it fascinating simply because it is so foreign. Great book.

I'll have to throw my hat in with those who found it difficult to get through.

There was little action going on to hold one's attention, and while that in itself isn't a bad thing, it was exacerbated by the fact that there weren't really any characters likable enough to keep me interested. The players all embodied the various aspects of their rather heartless society, and it felt like that was why Wharton wrote them, rather than being characters in their own right.

Did find it interesting to read a book which had Brits down as being the free spirits and US folks as the scandal-fearing emotion-smothering people of 'form'. Completely the other way round from most stuff I´ve read. The section about two women following Mrs and Miss Archer around the continent acting all hospitable to me would read a lot better were the nationalities swapped!

I am glad I read this book. It makes you think about perceptions and prejudices. These things are still present today, just disguised as something else, maybe not fashion and form, but financial power or celebrity status. It make you reevaluate you're own views on what is important. It also reminded me that communication in a relationship is very important. To live with someone for 30 years and never know their true feelings. That is sad.

I finished the book last night, but waited until this morning to post just to let it percolate in my head a bit. Was this a horrible book? No. Was it the best book ever? No. It was average. The beginning was slow. Once the second part started, it began to pick up, but I've always hated "but it gets better!" If it is a struggle to get to the good part, doesn't that counteract said good part? I did find the descriptions fascinating as they did give you a sense of the characters and their way of life. Throughout the course of this club we have read a few books that were just time sucks when it came to descriptions as in they were superfluous and then we read others that the descriptions were non existent. The characters were interesting archetypes for the period as well. I knew going into it, they were not going to be high minded or enlightened. I am going to save the rest for the podcast discussion at the end of this month. ;)

I loved this book. I've also read Ethan Frome by Edith Wharton and found it to be excellent so my respect for Wharton as an author is now quite high.

Among her other techniques, I admire Wharton's ability to give us a portrait of a character without ever quite giving us the facts. That is especially true of the Count whom Ellen left. He treated Ellen terribly. But exactly what did he do? We're never quite told, are we?

This book sustained my interest from the outset. I wanted Newman to marry May. If he married her, then I wanted him to remain faithful to her. Would he or wouldn't he? This age-old tension between morals and temptation - between what one should do and what one wants to do - sustained my interest page after page.

Along the way, we get fascinating portraits of the characters that populate this novel and of the values and rules of behavior that govern the "Old Society" of which Newland and May are a part. Let's face it - the values of this Society turn these people into snobs but they have no idea. They only see themselves as fine, upstanding, and virtuous - model citizens.

One other thought - I listened to an audio version of this book. It was well read. I don't know if this method of "reading" the book might have made it more appealing to those who suffered through a print version of the book.

Judson wrote: "I loved this book. I've also read Ethan Frome by Edith Wharton and found it to be excellent so my respect for Wharton as an author is now quite high.

Among her other techniques, I admire Wharto..."

I read part of it and listened to part of it. It was a great reading, my only issue is I read faster than the audiobook does so I knew it would take me longer doing only that way and I also have small children who are loud! Haha. I liked doing the combination of listening and reading.

Like many books of that time it put great store on describing every little detail. I personally hate that. I don't want 3 pages of what the kitchen looked like or how her dress sat on her. Nor do I enjoy the ADD nature of this book as it meanders down pathways in the middle of a conversation or an action. He is walking towards the countesses house, suddenly we have a page and a half of him thinking about random drivel... However once I started skimming past all that and looking for the conversations and key words I was able to enjoy the book a bit more.

My final thoughts; It was a book, and I'm glad I don't live in that era.

As I was reading the book, I was comparing to Faulkner and Flannery O'Conner. I studied and loved the writer's of the first half of the twentieth century, but have not read all of them. I was a little frustrated with the pace, but as I got into the story, I was fascinated by Wharton's depiction of the social norms of the era. The counterpoint of Ellen's freer behavior made the novel. Some commentary I read said this novel showed the beginning of the end of the "old society" in the United States. I am looking forward to reading more of Wharton's novels.

I just finished today, I was determined to finish. If you want my honest opinion, I found this book incredibly dull. Social norms, expectations, etc is basically like listening to the parents in the Charlie Brown cartoons for me :).
It took me over 2 weeks to finish this book, I either had to keep rereading a page or I would just doze off.
I can say, at least for myself, that it did become a little more readable halfway through. To say I completely enjoyed would be a lie!
I will not go into too much detail but, I will say I was disappointed in the end. After all the drama surrounding Archer and Countess Olenska, for it to end like that, for lack of a better word, it sucked!

I finished the book this morning and I loved it. And I respect the ending. I did want Archer to find his happy ending (even if it was so late in life) but I think he had, Olenska was his past, he had grown to think of her as a love he wanted but had passed. I think Archer's state of mind for walking away was in relation to what he found out about May from his son Dallas.

A lot of people in this thread and others are bored with the book, but the book exposed us to another culture. Edith won a Pulitzer prize for her accuracy, and her details painted lovely pictures. This is not the typical story I would have read, but I'm happy I did.

I breezed through this book on my day off and like it quite a bit. I'm a little sad to see all the "dull!" comments, because I took to this book almost immediately. I thought the trap of social conventions of the era was fascinating. I was also wishing the entire time that Newland would run off with the Countess! I hadn't expected it to be so funny, or romantic... or so sad.

Seeing such a mix of reviews to this book I have to think of how true a comment I was told recently was. I was told Edith Wharton is an acquired taste. If we were to read a 2nd and a 3rd book by her no doubt we would enjoy each one a little more.

I recommend that those willing to give Edith Wharton another try read "Ethan Frome." It is shorter and tells a very interesting story. It was adapted into a movie of the same title in 1993 starring Liam Neeson as Ethan Frome.

I have read only two books by Edith Wharton, "Ethan Frome" and "The Age of Innocence" and have rated both as 5 stars.

Thanks Judson will definitely give that a go.

I have vague but good memories of The House of Mirth as well. It is much more like The Age of Innocence than is Ethan Frome. I'm thinking of putting that on my re-read list.

I read Ethan Frome in high school, ages ago, and completely forgot how depressed it made until I read The Age of Innocence. Wharton is fantastic, but her novels really bum me out! Still, The House of Mirth will definitely go in my to read list. Thanks for the recommendation!

Kevin wrote: "I loved it. The author's acute descriptions of the various clothes and houses, etc., is the perfect echo to the artificial attitudes of upper-class New York society at the time. And because Wharton..."
I loved this book, too. I like your comment because it matches my own thinking. To me May represents the old society, the one that was already dying at that time. Wharton who is in this intermediate state with a foot in each world, gets married to tradition but longs for that new upcoming world, represented by Ellen.
It was a good read and I think I'm going to try The House of Mirth or Ethan Frome as soon as I can.

I loved this story. I emphathized with Newland that he pledged himself to May and then fell in love with Ellen. I found it amusing that he was so unaware of the whole family and close friends being aware of their "affair". I found May to be clever by telling Ellen she was pregnant, even though she was not positive about it. Newland and May did make a good marriage and raised three children. Newland appeared to be sorrowful when she died. I am not really sure why he did not go to Ellen's home in Paris with his son. I would really appreciate some thoughts on that action.

Archer didn't go see Ellen because in his memory of her he had pictured her living her life and growing old in a certain way. His fear was to see her and find the reality not ad grand as the vision in his head and didn't want to ruin it. The other part was just that it had been so long since they saw each other how would the reunion be. Would they run to each others arms and oick up where they left off or would they be but two strangers now with nothing in common or to sit in awkward silence. He decided live and let live.

I'm sort of conflicted with this book. There's quite a bit I like about it, it does a good job detailing the societal norms of Old New York very well (although that damn phrase started making me want to take a drink every time it was mentioned after a certain point). The character conflicts are interesting, as is their paralysis to act on anything that they're actually feeling because of the trappings of their culture, and how much of that is cowardice is up to the reader's judgement. At the end though, I just could not relate to anyone in the book. Their situations are just so far removed from anything I've experienced, and again, their inaction is frustrating to read about. I couldn't really empathize with any of them, and found none of them very likeable, apart from Mrs. Manson Mingott who as far as I'm concerned is the only character with a lick of common sense. Archer is an awful, awful person and I feel that much of the novel, because it is told from his point of view, that much of his character analyses are unreliable, specifically that of his wife, who in the end turns out to be much more perceptive than he ever gave her credit.

I loved this book. I actually fell in love with Edith Wharton's work twenty years ago after reading Ethan Frome. Her writing is so rich and I love how the characters play off each other in her stories.

I actually like the ending of this book. I agree with Travis of NNY (message 42). The past is always with us but sometimes the past should remain in the past. I am glad Archer did not go to see Ellen.

I also loved this book. I actually have a lot of sympathy for Archer's predicament. We currently live in a society in which the needs and desires of the individual are given a lot of weight -- we don't ostracize those who walk away from their marriage (or their engagements), and second marriages are common. Even if Archer had been able to bring himself to buck societal norms and leave May for Ellen, he and Ellen couldn't have married, and they would have been cast out of their society. What livelihood would they have had? Would they have been happy together in their isolation? (Think Anna Karenina!)I felt some sympathy for all three of these characters, to tell you the truth. May had to live with the disappointment of knowing her husband was in love with someone else. Archer had to resign himself to a good, solid -- but not passionate -- marriage. Ellen probably got the best ending, going forth in the world knowing that Archer would always love her but that she'd given him up selflessly.

I loved the ending, too, and I think it rang true. When you've spent decades idealizing someone, remembering the magic between the two of you, actually seeing him/her again fact-to-face, changed by the years, is a risky business. Why risk ruining the ideal? If he doesn't see her in person, she'll always be her younger self (the one who was in love with him!) in his mind.

Michelle wrote: "We currently live in a society in which the needs and desires of the individual are given a lot of weight..."

I wonder what Wharton would think of current US culture. In this book and House of Mirth she criticizes the rigid social mores of her time. Now that the pendulum has swung so far the other way... I just wonder what her reaction would be. Would she be happy with our freer culture, or would she wonder if things had gone too far?

I enjoyed the book much better than I thought I was going to in the beginning. I loved the descriptions throughout the novel of food, clothing, and general settings. And, I think the ending was perfect. Because of Newland's choices, there was no way that after 30 years of separation any type of relationship between Ellen and Newland would have seemed natural. Too much time had passed, and people really do change. It only would have worked between them if they had found a way to be together when they were younger.

I agree Angie, I think their time had passed (sob)!

I really liked and enjoyed the book. I thought it was great. I thought all the characters were great. I loved the ending, so unexpected!

Like most of you, it was a slow start for me too. I had to listen to the audiobook to get me through the first few chapters, then it started to pick up. For a little while I had hopes that Archer would take action and get over all his New York society rules and leave May to be with Ellen. But by the time they met in Boston, I realized that he would never man up because as much as he hated it, he had a duty as a husband and he would rather not bring shame to his family. I really liked the last chapter that fast-forwarded in time so we could know how Archer's life had turned out and also how societal norms had changed. Overall, it turned out better than I thought it was going to be.

Well, this is not one of my favorite books. While I liked the moral of the story (and there were many) I founud it boring and too proliferous. I'm looking forward to a modern classic next!

I'm very surprised at how few have commented on what a funny and unbelievably intelligent writer Ms. Wharton was. Almost every page had some phrase, image or dialogue that knocked my socks off; she's very Wilde-esque (though not as pithy), and the way she gets the most ridiculous situations to seem almost reasonable is satirical genius (Newland's "job" comes to mind). And the way she sets this rigid Society up as an ancient and invulnerable