Miévillians discussion

Here are some possible starting points for discussion when the group read formally commences:

1. Borlu confronts a Breach

2. Sniper was Yoyjavic, aTrue Citizen, who had called lawyer Gosz

3. Breach: "Because you may not see the justice of what we do doesn't mean it's unjust."

4. "There is no Orciny."

5. Film of Bowden

6. Mahalia's notes.

7. "I was very observed." Reserved

8. Breach = Ashil

9. "While you're with me you're Tye."

10. Breach - Breathe

11. Mahalia's copy of Between the City and the City in the University Library

What is the role of the Univesity in the cities? Metaphorically?

A receptacle of knowledge?

12. Being in both cities has gone from being in Beszel and Ul Qoma to being in a third place, that nowhere-both, that Breach

13. "You're evidence this could all be real." The interstitiality which made Orciny so absurd to most citizens of Beszel and Ul Qoma was not only possible but inevitable. Why would Breach disbelieve life could thrive in that little gap?

14. Mahalia told Yolanda you could be a thief without knowing it.

15. Buidze at dig

16. According to the catalogue the wood offcut was a replacement for a brass tube containing gears encrusted into position by centuries. Three other pieces were missing, from those early digs, all from within wrappings, allreplaced by twists of paper, stones, the leg of a doll. They were supposed to be the remains of a preserved lobster's claw containing some proto-clockwork; an eroded mechanism like some tiny sextant; a handful of nails and screws. [see Antikithera mechanism]

17. the "sigil" of Breach [cf. Sigil of Power from World of Warcraft]

When Borlu was first under Breach I had the picture in my head of a group of beings, maybe not human, wearing jumpsuits and fencing masks. Their announcing, whispering and murmuring of "Breach" reminded me of psychological torture during Stalin's purges or the CIA in the 60's and I'm sure in other locations today. It turns out they are all regular people but there. is the intention to terrify breachers and the possibility exists that torture of and disappearing could occur. For Borlu its yet another case to solve. Breach takes up the spaces unused by the cities on the boarder and I imagine around town. I really liked the idea mentioned earlier that Breach is like a personality split maintained by thoughts of the populous. Does Breach provide the content?

In a vacuum, the laws of nature still prevail.

I felt Breach had a slightly more unreal, almost supernatural aspect than any group from real history: "The soundlessness was enervating... he was a cutout of darkness, a lack... clothes as vague as my own... Their faces were without anything approaching expressions. They looked like people-shaped clay in the moments before God breathed out."

However, I was a little disappointed to read that they used cameras to watch the fringes; I was expecting something spookier and less tangible.

Found an occurrence of "palimpsest"! :D

..and a few typo's sadly- shocking- wonder who did his editing...

Traveller wrote: "Found an occurrence of "palimpsest"! :D

..and a few typo's sadly- shocking- wonder who did his editing..."

There's a job for you ;)

Was palimpsest in PSS? I can't recall where we discussed it. I know it from Gore Vidal's memoirs.

Palimpsest is in all of China Mieville's novels. He loves that word, absolutely adores it. It occurs a few times in some of them. I bet you you could find it all of them. Except maybe Unlundun? We'd have to ask Nataliya.

Has GR started to reverse the chronological order of threads?

I love the word, too. BTW, I had never heard of nonce words until I saw you mention them on another thread somewhere. I love neologisms as well. I think someone used to publish dictionaries of them, although it's probably more efficient and responsive to do that online now.

Ian wrote: "Has GR started to reverse the chronological order of threads?"

It's me. I must have changed something accidentally.

Ian wrote: "Traveller wrote: "Found an occurrence of "palimpsest"! :D

..and a few typo's sadly- shocking- wonder who did his editing..."

There's a job for you ;)

Was palimpsest in PSS? I can't recall where ..."

It was! Just like Trav says - it makes cameo appearances in almost every Miéville book so far.

(Having falling behind pretty pathetically in my reread, I plan to catch up this week).

We still have over three weeks to go. It would be great if we could all work towards some sort of shared climax!

Ian wrote: "I love the word, too. BTW, I had never heard of nonce words until I saw you mention them on another thread somewhere. I love neologisms as well. I think someone used to publish dictionaries of them..."

I used to call them neologisms too, but apparently that is not the correct term for a made-up word that is specially made up just for a certain situation in a certain setting, such as a book of film.

The term neologism is apparently only applicable if that word has entered common usage. So, nonce words can become neologisms, but not all nonce words are neologisms.

Yes, actually palimpsest made quite a few appearances in PSS, IIRC...

There may be a specific word for a term coined for a particular setting, but I don't think there's anything wrong with using "neologism":

neologism
Any new word which is introduced into a language, by whatever process. E.g. Eurocracy, for the bureaucracy of the European Union, would be a possible neologism in English, either derived from Eurocrat or by a direct process of blending.

How to cite this entry:
"neologism" The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Linguistics. P. H. Matthews. Oxford University Press, 2007.

And of course, "palimpsest", is obscure and archaic, rather than a Mieville coinage.

..but palimpsest is a recognized English word, to be found in any complete, reputable dictionary.

The type of 'nonce' words that i mentioned in the other thread, are not words that are commonly accepted in the English language.
They are words like: arctother, orichalk (as money currency - a coin), Avern- a dangerous flower, destrier (a sort of horse with horns and other genetically engineered characteristics),nefandous, anathem, fraa, farmling, krytosis, smeerf, speelycaptor, etc. etc.

Gene Wolfe tends to use archaic words and puts them to his own, new use, but Neal Stepehenson just makes them up as he goes along, and i hate that.

All of Mieville's words can be found in the dictionary at least...

It's only once one of these nonce words becomes accepted enough to have them even in an urban dictionary, that they cease to be nonce and become neologisms.

See some of these links: http://fillingmypatchofsky.com/2011/0...

http://writingxmu.wikispaces.com/Neol...

http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/view...

http://www.brighthubeducation.com/esl...

Traveller wrote: "..All of Mieville's words can be found in the dictionary at least..."

All of them? ;)

Even insile, topolganger, Glasnostroika, grosstopically, and from "The Scar", some wyrd [sic] spellings: seawrym, chymical, elytricity and vampir.

Cecily wrote: "Traveller wrote: "..All of Mieville's words can be found in the dictionary at least..."

All of them? ;)

Even insile, topolganger, Glasnostroika, grosstopically, and from "The Scar", some wyrd [si..."

Hehehe- ok, you win. No, not all of them...

Although, in some cases, both Wolfe and Mieville uses archaic words or simply archaic spellings.

"Seawrym, chymical, elytricity and vampir. " are all valid words just spelled in an archaic form.

Destrier is (archaically) a warhorse, but Wolfe uses the word in a special form to indicate a special kind of genetically engineered creature.