Terminalcoffee discussion

Why do so many people fall for bs? Is it because we don't value critical thinking in schools these days?

Why do some people feel it's O.K to spit phlegm/mucous onto the footpath ?

I saw a man yesterday, stop and lean over, then expel some vile bodily fluid from his mouth into the gutter.

The cab driver that drove me from work the other night used a toothpick to clean his teeth while he was driving. One hand on the wheel and one on the toothpick.

I consider this to be really offensive particularly when accompanied by squelching sounds.

Yuck.

Oh gross! That is as bad as that weird snorting sound people make in their throats. It always gives me an involuntary gag reflex that I try to suppress for their benefit! Why do I care?

Seeing snots in other people's noses. A very nice lady who I used to do favors for made spaghetti for me as a reciprocal appreciation effort. When she brought it to me she had large mucous blob streaming down her nose. She appeared not to notice. Needless to say, the spaghetti went in the trash after she left.

There are those moments when I just want to shout "Shut up!" when someone in a train or bus is blabbering through phone really loud while I'm trying to read.

Good one. That is real irritating.

Heidi, can't you get the nasal mist? I thought that people who had an egg allergy could do that.

That doesn't seem right that they can enforce that policy, Heidi.

Anyway: I could not disagree more strongly with you.

Flu is fatal for many people. It is much more likely to be fatal for the elderly, babies, and people with chronic health problems and compromised immunity. In other words, the people more likely to be in hospitals. The policy is to protect these people from illness and death.

I take major issue with this because I don't believe for a minute that it's not JUST the vaccine they're giving folks - I think they should disclose to folks exactly what they're getting in the shot if they're going to force them to get it. They don't.

Yes they do. Whenever you get a flu shot you get full disclosure of what is in the shot. It's part of the paperwork. Whenever you get a prescription medication from a pharmacy, doctor or hospital, you get this disclosure regardless of what the medication is. A flu shot is no different.

And yes, the flu's been particularly bad this season, but it's not because people aren't getting the shots. It's because the shots they are getting are ineffective.

The flu shot this year is 62% effective. Its effectiveness varies from year to year because designing the flu shot is an inexact science. People are getting flu this season both because they aren't getting the shot, and because the shot they are getting is not 100% effective.

Little's pediatrician commented to me that she thought that this flu season was as bad if not worse than when H1N1 hit.

Oh. I thought you were objecting to any hospital employee having to get the shot.

I'm sympathetic that you're being forced to wear a mask that you don't want to wear, but the side benefit is that since you are not immunized, you're gaining some small amount of protection from people who are infected.

Heidi wrote: "And did I mention that I have not had the flu at all since I got it (from the vaccine) back in 1999?"

1. It is impossible to get the flu from the vaccine. Absolutely impossible.

2. The fact that you've been flu-free for many years doesn't mean you can't get it in some future year.

Flu Myth #3: The flu vaccine can give you the flu.

This is the flu myth most likely to drive experts bonkers. “There is simply no way that the flu vaccine can give you the flu,” says Christine Hay, MD, assistant professor at the University of Rochester Medical Center. “It’s impossible.”

Why? For one, injected flu vaccines only contain dead virus, and a dead virus is, well, dead: it can’t infect you. There is one type of live virus flu vaccine, the nasal vaccine, FluMist. But in this case, the virus is specially engineered to remove the parts of the virus that make people sick.

Despite the scientific impossibility of getting the flu from the flu vaccines, this widespread flu myth won’t die. Experts suspect two reasons for its persistence. One, people mistake the side effects of the vaccine for flu. While side effects to the vaccine these days tend to be a sore arm, in the past, side effects often felt like mild symptoms of the flu. Two, flu season coincides with a time of year when bugs causing colds and other respiratory illnesses are in the air. Many people get the vaccine and then, within a few days, get sick with an unrelated cold virus. However, they blame the innocent flu vaccine, rather than their co-worker with a runny nose and cough.

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/fea...

No one is saying you didn't have the flu. But you can't get the flu from the flu shot. How is it you think the flu shot gave you the flu, given that the flu shot only contains dead virus? A virus has to be live to be infectious.

Side effects of ibuprofen or some other drug are different, because side effects are so variable. Some people get them, some don't. People get different ones. It's entirely possible sleepiness is a measurable effect of ibuprofen but only presents in some miniscule number of people, so it's not considered statistically significant enough to go on the label.

But the flu virus is different. Scientists know how the virus works. They know the dead virus can't transmit the flu.

How long after the shot does immunity kick in?

1-2 weeks. They will usually tell you 2 weeks but this is the outside timeframe; for many people it's 1 week.

:admires kicks from fellow ninja, Dubs::

Heidi wrote: "I had the friggin flu and it was a helluva damn coincidence that in both experiences, it happened immediately after I got the shot."

When I was 16 I had a Filet o' Fish from McDonalds. That night I puked and puked.

A few months later I had another Filet o' Fish. That night, again with the puking.

I've never had another of those damnable fish sandwiches, and I never will. They may or may not have been the cause of the vomit, but they will always be inexorably linked in my mind.

If you've ever have a bad case of the flu, as I did 10 years ago, you'll want to get a flu shot to avoid that misery again. I'm not exaggerating when I say that, at the lowest point, I felt that dying would be a relief. Flu shots every year for me since then, and no flu again.

This illustrates the very common logical error of confusing coincidence with causation.

Little has gotten sick after every one of his immunization shots except this last one. He was sick in both December and January with the flu prior to getting his last shot. I was convinced that the shots made him sick. I still have not ruled it out. There may be a logical explanation such as what Dubs has already given for the occurrence of sickness following the shots. Or I could be paranoid. Or it is a conspiracy.

Heidi wrote: "Can you offer some other logical explanation as to why this happens as it does?"

Yes, as I copied and pasted from WebMD @20: "Two, flu season coincides with a time of year when bugs causing colds and other respiratory illnesses are in the air. Many people get the vaccine and then, within a few days, get sick with an unrelated cold virus."

It's happened on at least 2 occasions. If it only happened once, okay... I'd agree perhaps. But twice? How is that coincidence?

You're going to need a lot more than two incidences to make it not be coincidental.

You're also going to need a scientific explanation of how a dead virus can infect you. Science says it can't happen. You keep saying it can happen. How can it happen? What's the mechanism?

Heidi wrote: "In addition to having an allergy to the shot (discovered that well into adulthood), I've had a very bad negative experience with the flu each time I've gotten the shot. If I've not had the flu since the last shot (13 years ago), wouldn't it stand to reason that I wouldn't want to get the shot again? I mean, it makes perfect sense to me."

I don't understand why you wouldn't get the nasal mist, then. I get that your employer doesn't offer it, but you can still go obtain it from a pharmacy. Most likely your insurance would cover it, but if they don't, it's not at all expensive. A few dollars more than the shot, usually.

Another benefit of a flu shot: the protection from it lasts 2-3 years. That is, you are protected from those three flu strains that are contained in it for 2-3 years. The next year's shot will contain 3 different strains, and that shot will protect you for the next 2-3 years. So you have overlapping protection year-over-year. This is why your best protection is to get the flu shot (or the nasal mist) every year and never skip a year.

The shot has worked for me. After I began getting it every year, I've not had the flu, even during the 5 years I was teaching and exposed to it daily.

Up until 6 years ago I never got the shot and I never caught the flu.
I am required to get the shot now.

According to everything I've read, that's true.

I heard on the "Doctor's show" on Sirius radio that hand washing is the best defense against viruses and bacterial infections.

I will give credit to the appropriate discoverer:
Ignaz Philipp Semmelweis (July 1, 1818 - August 13, 1865) was the Hungarian physician who demonstrated that puerperal fever (also known as "childbed fever") was contagious and that its incidence could be drastically reduced by enforcing appropriate hand-washing behavior by medical care-givers.

I'm going back to "What the hell is wrong with people?" My dad's in his 80s, and his childhood friend, Hawk, called. My mom (same age as Dad) answered the phone, and she told Hawk that she was having the same trouble with her shoulder that he'd previously had an operation for. Then Dad got on the phone and told the guy that he wasn't feeling well, either. Eventually, Hawk got around to asking Dad what he had planned for the next few days. Daddy said "Nothing," and then the guy invited himself and his wife to come up in their motor home for 3 days. So they came, my mom cooked, and my parents entertained these people for three days when that's the last thing they felt up to doing. I wanted to throttle these boors. My parents were exhausted by the time they left.

That is pretty ripe.

Scout wrote: "I'm going back to "What the hell is wrong with people?" My dad's in his 80s, and his childhood friend, Hawk, called. My mom (same age as Dad) answered the phone, and she told Hawk that she was havi..."

Your poor Dad gave the answer that you should never give when someone you don't want to see asks you what you have planned.

Yes. He learned the hard way that old friends can still be users. But after that, they're not considered friends any more. He just didn't expect it from this guy.

I find myself asking more and more often, What the hell is wrong with people?

I'm getting a flu shot on Monday. Never want to suffer through the flu again. Never.

I've never been as ill in my life as the one time I got flu shot...

Heidi wrote: "I might buy that, TawNub..."

??? Where ???

Phone. No message numbers. Did I already tell you that? I feel rather strongly about it...

If, like me, you've not felt up to par after getting a flu shot, you're not alone. The flu vaccine can cause malaise, but not the flu. This is a quotation from the CDC website:

"The flu shot: The viruses in the flu shots are either killed (inactivated) or recombinant (don’t contain virus particles), so you cannot get the flu from a flu shot.

The quadrivalent vaccine has not been used in previous seasons, but its safety profile in pre-licensure trials has been very similar to the older trivalent flu vaccines.

Most people who receive the flu shot do not experience serious problems from it. Mild problems that may be experienced include soreness, redness, or swelling where the shot was given, fainting (mainly adolescents), headache, muscle aches, fever, and nausea. If these problems occur, they usually begin soon after the shot and last 1-2 days. Life-threatening allergic reactions to vaccines are very rare. If they do occur, it is usually within a few minutes to a few hours after the shot is given."

I got the flu shot last year in November. So far, no flu, which is wonderful, since I had the flu several years ago and wished for death.

I haven't had the flu since I had kids. Weird. Nor have I had any flu shots.

I forgot to ask when I had an autumn doctor's appointment, so I never went in just for the flu shot. I've been sick a few times this winter. It makes me angry that the shot is $30 at work. I won't pay it!

Well, $30 or so sick you want to die. I'll pay.

The flu shot is free here for anyone over 65

I'll keep that in mind 20 years from now :)

The last time I had the flu, I was 33, had a newborn, and couldn't get out of bed. I stopped laughing at getting the flu shot.

At my last physical a few weeks back, everything went just aces (aside from feeling like I'd been violated horribly during the prostate exam) until my doctor recommended that because of my age, she recommended a flu shot and a chicken pox vaccine because - believe it or not - I've never had chicken pox. Neither has my sister. Must have something to do with our luck at the genetic crapshoot. Between that and the fact that I'm now eligible for the senior discount at Wendy's, I feel positively prehistoric.

What do you get from Wendy's for the senior discount?

Something on the value menu no doubt.

RandomAnthony wrote: "What do you get from Wendy's for the senior discount?"

A Baconator. I still have one artery that's not completely blocked.