Rothfussians discussion

Title says it all. I'm trying to figure out what mythology or stories the whole Tehlu/Encanis and Lanre and the Chandrian stories are based on.

Losing an eye to gain greater sight is much like Odin from Norse myth. That is the only one that jumps out at me. I really have my doubts that Four Corners myth even this little bit of it, is taken from one (or any) specific source(s). Rather I could see themes that transcend any one particular mythology being put to use.
1. Martyrdom
2. Resurrection
3. Virgin birth
I donno... I really think this is a question that you'd have to hunt down Rothfuss for and I bet he wouldn't answer until Book three is out. Just my two cents!

I made a thread on this, linking a few stories from Greek mythology I think the stories are based on.

Christianity has a lot of similarities with the Tehlu story.

Jesus was born from an immaculate conception and died for his people, supposedly. There's lots of similarities with it IMO

I agree, I don't think you can pin it down to any one mythological resource really.

I've noticed that some of the stories are similar to greek and roman mythology, but there are also some that remind me of Christian and even Islamic beliefs.

I'm sure if I were well versed in other historical texts I'd find correlation there as well. I know a lot of the magics are based around physics and thermo-dynamics as well. I think it's really just a testament to how many subjects Pat studied at University. LOL.

Yeah, that's the thing that makes me feel intimidated about writing my own novel. I'm pleased with my current amount of worldbuilding and I feel like I have a really great story to tell and awesome characters to introduce to the world but I really need to flesh out the religious aspects of things. Apparently one needs a college degree to even be able to do that.

Oh well, thanks for the help folks.

I don't think you have to make it quite as vast as Pat's world to have a good religious set up. You could even potentially make up your own religious movement, it doesn't HAVE to correspond to the real world. Or, if your characters aren't particularly religious, you may be able to get away with a vague overview of the religious setting. That way you don't have to put in too many details.

If you are looking for some help on incorporating that into your worldbuilding, I'd really suggest reading just about any Dungeon Master's Guide for Roleplaying Games. (If you haven't already used this resource) I've found it very helpful when I get stuck on building a world myself.

what happened to Tehlu? the bulk of their curse words deal with his burnt body. I don't recall hearing anything specifically about it. I remember when Martin was praying during their attack he says that fire could not avail Tehlu. was there something I missed, or has this not been detailed?

Uh...Tehlu "died" or ascended back to wherever gods go by getting burned up with Encanis...or something along those lines.

It's in the story from Trapis.
Encanis breaks free from the Iron Wheel while they are burning him and Menda holds him to it thus destroying his mortal form by being burnt alive.

So, like, are you lookin' to mine Pat's sources or are you lookin' for sources if your own? If the latter are you looking for resources to read? If so, are you looking for stories and myths or the sort of why and how of belief?

thanks Amber! I'm embarrassed for missing that

>.<

Thistlepong, I was just wondering. I was just curious how one of my favorite authors came about his religious system in his books so I might go down the same path. Oddly enough today during an MRI for my knee I ended up having an epiphany of some kind and randomly came up with an awesome, believable, and interesting religion for my own books.

MAGNETS!

teehee @ Ions, we all do it, way too much to remember!

I'll be getting the books soon. I've listened to the Audiobooks 4 times, but, I can't mark or flip back to moments (8 hour-long tracks...ya know)
I feel like I'm sprinting through a forest. I see it all, but there is too much to take in after all is said and done, lol

I know exactly what you mean, I started with the Audiobooks too and it gets frustrating not being able to look things up or go back to a specific scene.

Plus, when I read it from the book it just felt like it sunk in so much better.

The question's too broad, then. He draws a lot, including sympathy, from The Golden Bough. But something like, I dunno, Lanre's armor made from the scales of the black beast who breath whatever is a nod to Sir Gareth from Le Morte d'Arthur: King Arthur and the Legends of the Round Table. And chunks of Daeonica are Faust.

Very interesting Thistle...I haven't read Golden Bough, I'm going to have to check that out.

Just my personal opinion, but I would shy away from delving into the exact same resources as Pat, I doubt they are all used up, since they are classics. But originality, for me as a reader, is almost always key.

Plus it might be hard to avoid thinking along the same lines as what Pat has written. That sort of thing is often difficult for me personally.

If you're really looking for a bit of feedback, post us an excerpt! We have opinions up the you know what around these boards LOL. (I mean that in a good way)

Well, okay. I'll post what I have so far. I hate doing this, it makes me feel like I'm putting up a naked picture of myself..

Two deities, male and female - Galloran and Ahra - existed in the beginning. They swirled around together, formless. With nothing but each other, they grew to love one another.
Being deities and being formless, they were unable to get lost in their affection as they would like to. So, Ahra created a female - Meridia.
Galloran created a male, Axis.
Axis and Meridia were created for each other, and they immediately fell in love. Through these two, the formless gods could show their love for one another.
Axis and Meridia were content, but they also wanted to show their love for one another. They created the world and called it the Gallery, where they would showcase their creations.
Axis formed the mountains and forests and plains, and all of the life they held. Meridia created the lakes, seas, and oceans, and all of the life they held.
They each reveled in their tasks, for they worked with each other on this project, this show of their love. For a time, they were content.
After some time, the animals that Axis had populated his lands with became unruly. Populations were unbalanced, and things were out of order. So Axis created humanity to watch over and control the animals.
Meridia had no such problem with her realms, and felt no need to create an equivilant.

Galloran and Ahra, who had created Axis and Meridia, however, watch their creations and the things that they made. They watched the lovers that they had made and felt a rage that was born of jealousy. They did not intend for their creations to be as happy as they were; they wanted them to suffer.

As a punishment, Galloran decided to punish Axis by destroying humanity. He would raise an army of his own creation - the orcs. Axis was visited in the depths of night by Ahra, who was disguised as a great white owl, unbeknownst to Galloran. Ahra warned Axis of the impending doom that Galloran would visit upon Axis' people. Axis vowed to fight back.

When the might of Galloran's orcish armies were levied against the humans, Axis fought among them, and they emerged victorious, defiant of the god Galloran's will. Humanity, indebted to their god once for their creation, was now indebted to him twice, for being saved from the wrath of Galloran.

Galloran became enraged. Against Ahra's wishes, he struck Meridia down and imprisoned her indefinitely. Axis was heartbroken for a time and left the Gallery, and the humans.

Ahra, displeased with Galloran's behavior, damned him and refused to ever see him ever again for his selfish behavior. She forbid him from speaking to her ever again and cast him down from the heavens. She stripped him of his name and forbid him to ever call himself Galloran ever again, unless he found it in his heart to see his wrongdoings and forgive his son for fighting against him for what he loved and released Meridia. His name was now Lorn, and he brooded, unable to do these things. He was blind with rage at being defied.

Lorn met with Axis and made him a deal: if he destroyed everything he and Meridia had created, Lorn would return Meridia to Axis. Axis left the Gallery in thought.

Axis was gone from the world for twelve days and twelve nights. On the thirteenth day, he reappeared under the most unlikely of circumstances.

In the city square of the city of Quietus, a man, haggard and old, appeared at the imperial palace. He was missing an eye and a hand. Hungry, he knelt on the steps of the palace. When the guards came to him and asked what he was doing, he replied that he was looking for food.


(fill in more here)


He had lost his beloved Meridia, but he would not live in vain. He would look after the Gallery that they had created together, and he would nurture and cherish the human race that he had created. He even allowed the remaining orcs to stay in the Gallery, for he believed it was not their fault that they had been created and used for a vile purpose. He offered them a chance to reconcile by living full and productive lives.

The human race vowed to forever serve their lord Axis, who had created them and also saved them from certain destruction. They were indebted, twice over, and one debt impossible to repay - the debt of life.

Since then, the demon-god Lorn has conspired to undo Axis, humanity, and the Gallery, and it is the duty of faithful men and women to aid their lord in any way they can and to aid him in defending against the evil god, and eventually even turning him back towards the light.

Humans worship Axis, and to a lesser extent Ahra. A few sects worship Meridia, believing that she is not dead.
---------------

Religious sects
----

The Church of Axis - Most common. They worship Axis and their overall mission is to work for the greater good, to show Axis that humanity is worth keeping. The head of the Church, the Archbishop, is an evil, racist man.
The Sisters of Ahra - A group of nuns that worship Ahra for her grace, generosity, and mercy.
The Monks of Lorn - An underground cult that worships the fallen Galladon. They preach for humanity to pray to him and do works for him. They believe that humanity should not exist. Suicidal rituals are common among them.
Covenant of the 13th Day - Radical Axis worshippers and flagellants. They are fanatics and take the sins of humanity against Axis very deeply and personally and believe that only through self-punishment and denouncement that Axis will see that humanity is worth keeping.

There are minor cults that worship Meridia along the coasts, since she created the oceans and the seas and the Great Lake.

I think its going in a nice direction. I always like to learn how worlds were made, so this sounds really interesting to me. I'll start by saying I am in no way trying to discourage you, I think this is a great idea and just want to give you some feedback so you can make it better. You seem open to that, so I just wanted to say I congratulate you on even giving this a shot! You are braver than I to post your ideas up for judgment LOL.

Okay - Just to give you a couple angles to think about, my first question when reading your excerpt was - if A&G are formless and make Axis and Meridia (love the names they are a great play on words) I'm left wondering, where do Axis and Meridia live if they make the world? Are they on another world? Are they in space? I think thats really the only hole I see in what you have.

The only thing I felt might be worth changing (unless you have an explanation that rocks for why your character is like this) is the character missing an eye and a hand. Missing an eye makes me think of Selitos immediatly and missing a hand makes me jump straight to Jamie Lannister. If you have a reason why your character has these deformities I think you should add it in to the story sooner rather than later so you can get away from making your reader think of other novels. If you don't have a real reason thought up yet, maybe give him a different disfigurement. Like, I dont know, missing his nose and his foot maybe. Or no fingers instead of no hand at all. Both are intersting and don't make me jump to thinking of other stories, thus keeping you seemingly original as an author. Which as a reader, I really look for.

Hope that small amount of feedback can give you some help. I actually think your overall religious set up seems sound and believable.

How can Axis & Meridia use the powers of their gods so well? They created the earth and all the creatures and humans. So it's like gods within gods?

I quite like the premise apart from that. I don't know if I'd read it 'cause I'm not a fan of orcs :P

I really appreciate the feedback, glad to hear that for the most part it sounds believable. I was terrified that it just sounded like some childish crap =)

I haven't given a lot of thought to Axis being disfigured, it just seemed like something that fit and I was going to fill in the blanks later. Thank you, Amber, for pointing out the similarities to other characters; I had not even considered that as a thing at all.

And Chris, you're right, that is kind of awkward that they can use the powers that they were created with so well. I might have to re-work that a little. Thanks for the heads up.

I think the gods within gods set up is pretty universal, mythologically speaking.

I mean, Zeus is the father of a lot of gods - for example Persephone and Hermes. Both of them have power and seem to be able to use it innately, however they probably would have trouble actually besting any of the Gods sired by Cronus or another Titan.

I think so long as A&G have a good back up for what they are up too it can work just fine. Maybe though A&G could make the actual world, with Axis&M in it, then Axis and M make everything IN the world. (Like beasts and oceans and all that) It would only be a minor tweak of what you've already written and it makes sense.

Anyway - sorry for rambling...Glad to give you feedback, hope it helps and encourages you to keep writing your story!