The Scarlet Gospels discussion

Just finished reading Clive Barker's much herald return to adult horror and was so disappointed. He's usually an author with plenty of challenging ideas, characters and such and what we get out of this is nothing more than a chase novel with one-liners thrown at the reader at an unbelievable rate. So, question... has Barker lost it? What was something you were so excited to read and was totally letdown by...

I was very excited about this book. And, while I quite enjoyed the bulk of it, I was expecting a bit of a different book.

This was heralded as the death of Pinhead. Yet, much of the book seemed more dedicated to Harry D'Amour, which was a letdown.

I still found the imagination and ideas were there, but overall, the biggest disappointment was the end.

Hardly the "biggest piece of garbage ever" but not his best.

Gotta agree with Tobin but I would add the whole thing felt a little half hearted and rushed, like Clive was working on autopilot.

Maybe garbage was a slightly harsh word... but I actually felt like I was just reading another edition - though adult edition - of his Abarat series. Start from point A, move to B, C etc., until you reach Hell and the whole move from point D to E, etc. There were times that I even wondered which islands they would visit next. Also, you have to admit, the one-liners were totally unnecessary at the rate they were given. I am all for a laugh every now and then but it just seemed that every piece of dialog was used just to set up a punchline.

The one liners didn't bother me. I just felt D'Amour was unnecessary altogether, and I think it would have been a stronger story if Barker had let us into Pinhead's head.

As for the "Start from point A, move to B, C etc., until you reach Hell and the whole move from point D to E, etc." comment. Well, swap out "Mordor" for "Hell" and you've got the Lord of the Rings. Use "Emerald City" and you've got Wizard of Oz.

It's a bit of a quest book because I think Barker has always wanted to give his version of a guided tour through Hell and this was his opportunity.

I also think he may simply have lost his way, because he's been working on this book since, I believe, 2000, and through that was sick, almost died, came back. I think all of this extra time likely weakened what should have been his masterpiece.

Ah well, there's still Weaveworld, Imajica and the two Books of the Art.

Tobin wrote: "I also think he may simply have lost his way, because he's been working on this book since, I believe, 2000, and through that was sick, almost died, came back. I think all of this extra time likely weakened what should have been his masterpiece."

This is gonna sound harsher than I mean it to sound but it just feels like someone fulfilling a promise not because they enjoy or want to but because the feel they have to.
This started out as a short for a new book of blood and slowly evolved into a novella , by 2010 it had grew into a full fledged novel, around 2012 Clive was giving interviews stating this was his largest work yet and talked about early scenes such as meeting between childhood harry and pinhead, Norma meeting joseph of arimathea and an epic show down in a viking burial ground....but didnt actually have anything written down.
I think a combination of public demand, publishers deadlines, personal/health issues and simply desire to write hampered this one.

That's probably very close to the truth, Marc.

G'Day. I'm a huge Barker fan from the long long ago and all that and I've found his writing to be consistently inconsistent in my view. I find a lot of people want his gore routine - of which, I am one of these people. But I thought I'd hate Galilee but it was really cool and I was hangin' for Absolute Midnight and I didn't like it all that much. I think we, as avid readers, all have needs and they cannot be met by Clive all the time. I love Clive, but is he really the gore-master we think of him as? Perhaps not so much..

Weeb wrote: "Just finished reading Clive Barker's much herald return to adult horror and was so disappointed. He's usually an author with plenty of challenging ideas, characters and such and what we get out of ..."

I don't think he's finished, he's just gotten lazy and threw this out. I was honestly surprised at how bad it is.

Marc wrote: "Tobin wrote: "I also think he may simply have lost his way, because he's been working on this book since, I believe, 2000, and through that was sick, almost died, came back. I think all of this ext..."

Marc, I think you nailed it.

Finished the book and then came and read the reviews. To sum up I have to agree with a few excerpts of the reviews.

D'Amour was completely pointless in this. His character actually pissed me off that he was in the book as heavily as he was. I wanted to read about the Hell Priest, Lead Cenobite, Father of Pain, not a 1940's style detective. D'Amour just completely ruined it for me. And seriously, spirit/evil sensing tattoos. How bloody unoriginal.

The Hell Priest, Pinhead, was a complete movie version. It's as though Clive Barker cowed to "the general masses" or what he believed everyone wanted. His character lines for the most part seemed hastily written in modern day CGI oversaturated explosion Hollywood lingo. Pinhead beating Norma with his boot heel? Really? I pictured Jason Statham in Cenobite garb dishing out a Jason Statham beat down.

Clive you have disappointed and pissed off many a true fan with this turd of a book. May you forever be banished to a heterosexual hell where you are forced to be with a woman and only get to watch the pleasures of other men.

I agree with the criticisms here. Marc is probably right, but my thoughts while reading the book were that Barker wrote the prologue (which is actually quite good) and maybe the early scene with D'Amour at the occult love nest, and then handed it off to a ghost writer. That's how jarring the shift in quality and style is.

It was tripe. Half assed tripe. I read it very quickly, not because I was enjoying it but because it was an interminable bore-fest and I wanted it to be over.
I don't know if I need to read other books to learn more of the "Harrowers" characters but in here, outside of Harry, they essentially had none. 90% of Dales dialogue is innuendo worthy of a "Carry On" movie. Caz is big but gentle. Bam! Character! Lana is little but fiesty. Bam! Character!
There's no subtlety, the "horror" is just repetitive gore and it reads like Barker gave up after the prologue. Yes, the chains are serpentine I get it. Buy a thesaurus. It reads like it could be the script for one of the later Hellraiser movies. Which, lets be honest, are shite. Don't get me wrong, I have a soft spot for a few of the films but it's born of nostalgia, kitsch value and a love for the design of the cenobites.
Also, the dialogue is clumsy and the pacing is terrible. Every criticism on this page is on point. I can't put into words how disappointing this novel is. Poor Pinhead.

^^what he said^^