Reading the Chunksters discussion

More changes are happening to Philip during these chapters as he begins working through puberty into young adulthood.

We see much more of the effect of Mr. Perkins on Tercanbury school, and on Philip as he takes a strong interest in encouraging Philip to go to Oxford and enter the ministry. But Philip resists, and eventually is allowed by Rev. Carey and Mr. Perkins to pursue his new plan to go to Germany to study, although at the time he isn’t sure he is glad to have won that concession.

Also during this period Philip makes and later loses a friend in Rose. So far it seems as though Philip has difficulty making friends, and even more keeping them. His childhood, or what we have seen of it, was largely lonely and isolated from others his age, and he seems not to have developed the skill of moving easily among his peers. On the contrary, his friendships so far are few and far between.

Once in Heidelberg he settles into the house of Professor Erlin along with an assorted group of others including several initially introduced simply as "several old ladies" (I suggest this accurately reflects the reality that to one of Philip's age a group of old women would be of no individual interest), two young girls "both fair and one of them very pretty" (these young women Philip would take notice of), a Chinaman, and two or three Americans. It's perhaps worth noting who at this first meeting is given a name and who isn't.

Later Hayward arrives and he and Philip develop a friendship, and there is a fairly extensive discussion of the conversations of Weeks, Hayward, and Philip which seem to have quite an impact on Philip.

Philip also becomes acquainted with young women for apparently the first time (at least that we’re told of), and the incident of Cacilie and Sung “increased Philip's preoccupation with the matter of sex.”

During these chapters it seems that Philip finds life pleasant for perhaps the first time since his mother’s death. At least so he thinks: as to Monsieur Ducroz Philip “seemed to realize in a fashion the hopeless bitterness of the old man's struggle, and how hard life was for him when to himself it was so pleasant.”


A few among the number of questions and issues which this set of chapters raises:

How do you see Philip's personality developing? Back in chapter 14 we were told that “beneath his painful shyness something was growing up within him, and obscurely he realized his personality. But at times it gave him odd surprises; he did things, he knew not why, and afterwards when he thought of them found himself all at sea.” As the Heidelberg years progress we see more of his personality emerge. How do you see it developing? What are his strengths and weaknesses?

Contrast Philip’s experiences in the house of Frau Erlin with those in Tercanbury school.

Weeks is quite dismissive of Hayward:
"Your new friend looks like a poet," said Weeks, with a thin smile on his careworn, bitter mouth.
"He is a poet."
"Did he tell you so? In America we should call him a pretty fair specimen of a waster."
...
"You don't know him," said Philip hotly.
"Oh yes, I do: I've met a hundred and forty-seven of him."
Is Weeks right? What are the influences of these two men on Philip? In what ways are they good and in what ways not so good?

As a result of his conversations with Weeks and Hayward Philip suddenly becomes aware that he has ceased to believe in God. At the moment of realization “suddenly he felt afraid,” but as he reflects on this change of belief “his heart leaped when he saw he was free from all that.” How do you see this affecting him? How might it affect his relationship with Rev. Carey when (assuming he does) he ever returns home?

And plenty more going on here to talk about!

Such a comprehensive post :) Here I was thinking that this week was less interesting.

I had a hard time with the situation with Rose. I understand that Philip has issues with forming and keeping friendships but I thought Rose's behavior was so odd. From setting the time to show up at the train station and failing to show to his abrupt loss of interest after Philip's illness, it was all just odd. Even if he took the friendship more casually than Philip it seems odd. I honestly didn't know what to make of this whole situation.

The whole argument that Philip has with Carey about travelling abroad was interesting. For one thing, it sounded like the Carey's had only a nominal say in what Philip was able to do. But he is still only about 16, right? Also, I can't find it looking back, but I thought that somewhere he specifically said that it was his money and he should be allowed to spend it as he wanted. The reason this caught my interest was because of last week's discussion about the frustrations for the Careys. If I did read this rather than imagine it, this does put a slightly different light on Carey for me. To have a child forced on you and bear the financial burden would be quite frustrating. Could this contribute to his less than loving attitude?

Philip's attitude towards the other boys that need the scholarships was actually very disturbing. It says It entertained him to think that he held someone else's future in his hand. This is not a side I like seeing since there's a streak of cruelty to it.

I disliked Hayward and his pretensions towards being a poet and acting like he was just more emotional and sensitive and therefore he understood things better than someone who actually knew what he was talking about. In short, I like Weeks a lot better. Where did Weeks first show up? I missed it.

I liked Maugham's quote: It is an illusion that youth is happy, an illusion of those who have lost it; but the young know they are wretched, for they are full of the truthless ideals which have been instilled into them, and each time they come in contact with the real they are bruised and wounded.

To me Rose's reactions didn't seem odd at all. He is a superficial boy who loves being in the centre of attention surrounded by friends but in fact doesn't think a lot about others. Initially he must have enjoyed Philip's worship of him and the way the other boy followed him everywhere, but the relationship wasn't important to him which is why he forgot about the appointment at the train station and gradually grew bored with Philip. What's more revealing to me is Philip's reaction, or lack thereof: he mumbles something about another appointment instead of asking his 'friend' straightforwardly why he forgot about the appointment. In fact, this is a pattern of behaviour Philip follows all too often. For example, when he first talks to Hayward in Heidelberg he quickly agrees that the food is 'beastly' in Germany despite the fact that he liked the food a lot.

As for Hayward, I completely agree with Weeks's assessment of him. In fact, I enjoyed the anecdote of 'having met one hundred and forty- six of him' quite much. The biggest problem is that Philip seems to believe most of what Hayward has to say.

@Sarah, Weeks was already there when Philip arrived, he was one of the 'three Americans' with whom Philip initially didn't care to talk. As for the quote you've cited I didn't like it much or rather I disagree with what it says. I don't think I'm old enough to idealise the happiness I felt when I was Philip's age. And if the young are 'full of the truthless ideals' how can they 'know they are wretched'? Surely they know it only later, after having lived through disillusionment of some kind, when they know these were ideals not based in real life. Also, I remember thinking as I read this that (at least in my opinion) this phrase no longer applies to youths in our times, we live in a more materialistic age.

To me the quote was really about the way that you hear people, as they get older, talking about their youth as their glory days. It always makes me shake my head because kids have it very hard. Along with the bullying and peer pressure and gossip, there's the loss of false illusions (truthless ideals) along the way. You're taught things about how to be nice to people and that people are basically good, and you're pumped full of ideas that don't hold water as you get older. As you bump your way along, you learn that people are not kind and that they will use you at times. Like Rose. This hurts but is often forgotten in later years. I wouldn't go back to being a teenager for anything, especially in this particular time period.

Thanks for the your thoughts on Rose's behavior. It baffled me. Philip's insecurities are definitely not his friend. You're right about him not calling Rose on his behavior. His interpersonal skills are seriously lacking.

Thanks on Weeks too. I couldn't remember him being there.

As for his sudden atheism, I think he feels afraid because it's been such a huge component of his life and then it's suddenly gone. That would be dizzying at the very least. I don't see it affecting his behavior much. The book explains that just because he lost his faith, it didn't mean that he lost the... here's the quote Though he had thrown on one side the Christian dogmas it never occurred to him to criticize the Christian ethics; he accepted the Christian virtues, and indeed thought it fine to practice them for their own sake, without a thought of reward or punishment. I think that if he threw off the morals as well, things could get really bad. I have hope for him because of this line. I'm not saying that Christian morals are necessary for a moral life but in Philip's situation I think it is best if he has some moral structure or he might become completely hedonistic. I don't see him ever telling Carey. Unless he's provoked in an argument, which is definitely a possibility.

This week's reading was so rich for me. I find that, with this book, I would love the opportunity to sit with you guys and talk and talk about it. There's so much to say and typing (no matter how fast) just isn't the same.

But first, I wanted to backtrack. This is the first Maugham I have read and I can't believe I have missed out on this wonderful writer for so many decades. Over the years, OHB has been off and on in my TBR list, mostly because the blurbs about the plot just didn't appeal to me. I'm so glad I took the plunge with this group, because the plot synopsis doesn't do this book justice.

Anyway, plot aside, what a wonderful writer! His prose is so clear and elegant,free of florid embellishments and curlicues. It's a pleasure to read - it has such an easy flow to it.

And his characters, how beautifully he brings them to life for us; the dialogue is so appropriate for the ages and personalities of the characters.

And what a masterful touch he has. The humor is so delicate, yet it makes me laugh out loud at times. The descriptive elements are so lovely.

I'm going to stop with this post and get to the specifics in a later one (or two or three :)).

I thought this was a lovely example of Maugham's ability to capture a moment in time:

"They walked along the side of a hill among pine trees, and their pleasant odour caused Philip a keen delight. The day was warm and cloudless. At last they came to an eminence from which they saw the valley of the Rhine spread out before them under the sun. It was a vast stretch of country, sparkling with golden light, with cities in the distance; and through it meandered the silver ribband of the river. Wide spaces are rare in the corner of Kent which Philip knew, the sea offers the only broad horizon, and the immense distance he saw now gave him a peculiar, an indescribable thrill. He felt suddenly elated. Though he did not know it, it was the first time that he had experienced, quite undiluted with foreign emotions, the sense of beauty. They sat on a bench, the three of them, for the others had gone on, and while the girls talked in rapid German, Philip, indifferent to their promimity, feasted his eyes."

These splendidly drawn characters - here are some of my favorite snippets:

"He [Wharton] leaned back cautiously, for the chair on which he sat had a rickety leg, and it was disconcerting when a rhetorical flourish was interrupted by a sudden fall to the floor."

And what about the accidental declaration of love made by Philip as he gazes at the stars overhead, but which Fraulein Hedwig (who has a keen sense of her own beauty and attractiveness to the opposite sex)completely misinterprets as a declaration of love to herself?

So priceless!

And Professor Erlin's pronouncements on the music and plays of his day. He is scandalized by a new play and makes the following, impassioned pronouncement: ""I would sooner my daughters were lying dead at my feet than see them listening to the garbage of that shameless fellow."" The play was The Doll's House and the author was Henrik Ibsen."

Or this pronouncement regarding Richard Wagner, composer of "The Ring Cycle", one of the greatest, most beautiful and most powerful set of operas the world has ever experienced: "I tell you young people that before the nineteenth century is out, Wagner will be as dead as mutton. Wagner! I would give all his works for one opera by Donizetti."

Now, I enjoy Donizetti and have actually performed a couple of his roles, but they are light, comedic fare with none of the majesty of The Ring.

This one really moved me. Philip is curious and rather fascinated by his French teacher, Monsieur Ducroz, a reserved,courteous man who refuses to share anything of his personal circumstances or history. But Philip has gathered enough secondhand information that tells him Ducroz had a turbulent, tumultuous youth. None of which is apparent in the calm, quiet man Philip sees before him. One day Ducroz appears for a lesson, obviously extremely ill. Philip, in his shy, embarassed way, pays Ducroz for the entire next week and says to come back when he is better. In a few brief, very moving paragraphs, Maugham perfectly captures this mysterious man:

"Monsieur Ducroz appeared again five or six days later. He tottered a little more and was very weak, but seemed to have overcome the severity of the attack. He was no more commuicative than he had been before. He remained mysterious, aloof, and dirty. He made no reference to his illness till after the lesson: and then, just as he was leaving, at the door, which he held open, he paused. He hesitated, as though to speak were difficult. "If it hadn't been for the money you gave me I should have starved. It was all I had to live on." He made his solemn, obsequious bow, and went out. Philip felt a little lump in his throat. He seemed to realize in a fashion the hopeless bitterness of the old man's struggle...".

And as for the conversations between Hayward and Weeks, I could rhapsodize for pages over how delicious they are! I have read them several times now and each time is fresh and fun.

Ok, I can't resist one of my favorite Hayward/Weeks discussions:

"I might have known it. Of course you read Greek like a schoolmaster," he [Hayward] said. "I read it like a poet."

"And do you find it more poetic when you don't quite know what it means? I thought it was only in revealed religion that a mistranslation improved the sense."

I have laughed out loud everytime I've read this, including while I'm typing right now. :)

I also love that quote and have laughed every time! That was some quick thinking on that idiotic excuse. Unfortunately it was still idiotic.

Teanka wrote: "To me Rose's reactions didn't seem odd at all. He is a superficial boy who loves being in the centre of attention surrounded by friends but in fact doesn't think a lot about others. Initially he mu..."

I agree. Rose seems like one of those fairly typical, thoughtless youths for whom everything seems to come so easily. They are so popular, everyone wants to be around them and they don't really have to do much of anything to make that happen. I've never understood how they manage it.

Drat them! :) :)

Philip on the other hand, because he has no one who loves him, and who he can really love in return, has all this pent up emotion and need - and it spills out at the slightest kindness from a peer. To me, his emotions toward Rose quickly evolve into an intense, teenage crush. As a result, I can see why Rose would forget all about meeting at the train station, whereas Philip would fixate on it and count the days until he could see Rose again.

Yes, it's exasperating that Philip couldn't come right out and confront Rose, but again, to me, it was very reminiscent of those teenage non-speaking interactions where one person wants the other person to just know (without being told) what the problem is - and the other person is completely clueless. Which makes the hurt person every more hurt and upset. And so forth and so on.

Sarah wrote:

"As for his sudden atheism, I think he feels afraid because it's been such a huge component of his life and then it's suddenly gone. That would be dizzying at the very least."

Agreed. And how poignant it was when he was filled with sadness that, if there was no God, it meant he would never see his beautiful Mother again. So, even though he felt a release and relief from the burden of his former religious beliefs, he, at the very same time, realized the different burden and weight his disbelief was now placing on him.

Exchanging one set of burdens for another. One gives up the stress of belief, but in losing the belief, the comfort of the belief is lost as well.

Sarah wrote: " Also, I can't find it looking back, but I thought that somewhere he specifically said that it was his money and he should be allowed to spend it as he wanted."

That's right. From Chapter 3, we learn right after his mother's death "now, when all expenses were paid, not much more than two thousand pounds remained to support the boy till he was able to earn his own living."

And then, after the argument with his uncle about his leaving school early, in Chapter 21, "I'm not in the least sorry. He's taking a mean advantage. Of course it's just waste of money keeping me on at school, but what does he care? It's not his money. It was cruel to put me under the guardianship of people who know nothing about things."

Okay, from the first quote I thought that the money was for his care until he was grown and it would all be used by the Careys during that time. It does help clarify the second comment, which I initially thought meant Carey had completely set the money aside.

I thought it was funny how Hayward was whining that he can't be expected to live on 300 a year, but Philip has 100.

Paula wrote: "But first, I wanted to backtrack. This is the first Maugham I have read and I can't believe I have missed out on this wonderful writer for so many decades. "

Definitely look into his short stories. They are amazing, especially the South Seas ones, and also Ashenden, which is based on his experiences in the British Intelligence Department during WWI and which was required reading for those later entering the Department. (The Preface to the reissue is also interesting in his comments on the theory of fiction.)

Paula wrote: And as for the conversations between Hayward and Weeks, I could rhapsodize for pages over how delicious they are! I have read them several times now and each time is fresh and fun.
"

I agree. They are brilliant. And almost as brilliant is Maugham's understanding of how they affect Philip and how he prefers Hayward to Weeks even as we from the outside can see what a fake Hayward is.

Love the exchange of ideas on Rose. It's a fine writer who can present a minor character with enough richness to inspire differing views of him.

Sarah wrote: "To me the quote was really about the way that you hear people, as they get older, talking about their youth as their glory days. It always makes me shake my head because kids have it very hard. (...) I wouldn't go back to being a teenager for anything, especially in this particular time period."

I suppose I'm going to be one of those people when I get older because I really liked my childhood. And I felt much more secure at the age of 15-18 than say at 11-12 when I had some problems with children at school(not serious, but still I moved to another neighbourhood and school and it was a hard experience for me at the time). In high school everybody was more or less grown up and minded their own business. I remember that back then the world seemed boundless and full of opportunity, I could become anyone I wished and had the full support of my family. Which is probably why I don't relate easily to Philip but I understand that in his situation being 16 years old had to be painful and stressful.

I also enjoyed immensely all the mentions about Wagner, Ibsen and discussions with Hayward, they were the highlight of this part to me, thanks for bringing them up, Paula! I agree that the novel is very well written with rich and elegant descriptions. I think I didn't expect it to be a bildungsroman. I believed the protagonist would be already 18 at the start of the book, based on description I read and I wasn't prepared to read about his childhood. But he is growing up fast now:) .

Everyman wrote: "Paula wrote: "But first, I wanted to backtrack. This is the first Maugham I have read and I can't believe I have missed out on this wonderful writer for so many decades. "

Definitely look into his..."

Coincidentally, I ordered the full collection of his short stories a couple of days ago. Thank you for introducing me to this marvelous author. What an experience this is!

Am I alone in being a little disappointed with this section after the first ... at least in the part after he arrived in Heidelberg. I did like the school section. But Philip seemed to me to become a rather pretentious young man in Germany, and lost my sympathy. I did appreciate his sensibility with Ducroz and the way he pretended to Cacilie not to have seen her with her (scandalously non-white) suitor. But he seemed so easily swayed, by Hayward as previously by Rose at school, I'm afraid I might have trouble liking him...

Rosemary wrote: "...But Philip seemed to me to become a rather pretentious young man in Germany, and lost my sympathy...."

I do see what you're saying. But is it a surprise? As a child and at school he's in an environment which limits his freedom to stretch whatever wings he might have. Now in Germany he's away from any authority figure and free to start becoming who he really is. And maybe who he is is going to turn out to be not so nice. Time will tell. But I'm not surprised at his character changing as he moves from other-controlled situations to self-controlled situations.

About Philip being easily swayed by e.g. hayworth: I couldn't help but thinking "I get ya, Philip!" When you are lonely and hungry for friendship or just someone to talk to it's easy to hide your own thoughts to fit in. It may sound odd, but if you feel like an outsider, voicing a different opinion can feel like a reinforcement of your status as an outsider. And when it's about something as unimportant as a meal you just go along because sometimes you just want to fit in. You save the arguments for bigger isses, like where you want to study, or religion. It's also something that you can grow out of with friendships and increased confidence, so it's not necessarily something that Philip will keep doing. Maybe it is one of the things he will learn to put behind him on his journey through life.

I like the book so far, but I can't quite figure out how I feel about Philip. I sympathise with him, I see some of myself in him, but I also find him a bit annoying. I expected to like him more, but I can't quite get my head around him. There is a lot of good in him, and some bad traits, but after 30 chapters he is still not much more than a name on a page to me.

How do you see him? Do you like him?

Nina wrote: "About Philip being easily swayed by e.g. hayworth: I couldn't help but thinking "I get ya, Philip!" When you are lonely and hungry for friendship or just someone to talk to it's easy to hide your o..."

This is also how I feel about Philip's insecurities. I think he is trying on rehearsal identities because he is searching for an identity, but at the same time wants so much to just fit in, to seem as comfortable and wise and witty as the next fellow. Hayworth's identity looks much more attractive than Week's, and Philip is adopting these costumes of behavior to try out.

I want to keep watch on Philip's love interests, because I think he and his mother loved each other, and it was easy for him to take his mother and her presence in his life for granted. Her absence has left him in shock and even more closed down emotionally. Losing his mother at such an early age (as well as his mysterious father) is bound to have an affect on his romantic relationships.

I was also constantly aware of Philip's foot, and I have to remember that everything Philip says and does sources from this agonizing awareness he carries of his disability, it is at the root of how he sees himself.

Sarah wrote: "I liked Maugham's quote: It is an illusion that youth is happy, an illusion of those who have lost it; but the young know they are wretched, for they are full of the truthless ideals which have been instilled into them, and each time they come in contact with the real they are bruised and wounded..."

This certainly hit home for me. I am surprised at how many people here have had such happy childhoods... everyone I know has spent time overcoming their childhoods. Frankly, there isn't enough money in this world to get me to relive my childhood or adolescence.

Janice, I was going to say much the same thing about Philip's chameleon-like tendencies to mirror those around him, but you said it so well. I love what you call them: rehearsal identities. Perfect.

I don't find Philip all that likable, but he is at an annoying age and really, just very vulnerable and very human.

Nina wrote: "About Philip being easily swayed by e.g. hayworth: I couldn't help but thinking "I get ya, Philip!" When you are lonely and hungry for friendship or just someone to talk to it's easy to hide your o..."

Well, yes, but he could have easily have chosen Weeks. I think there's an additional element here, which is that Hayward doesn't say anything particularly intelligent or intellectual, so you can admire without having to think, whereas Weeks requires thought to appreciate, which is harder and more work.

Paula wrote: "I don't find Philip all that likable, but he is at an annoying age and really, just very vulnerable and very human. "

I also don't particularly like or dislike him at this point. But isn't Maugham doing a wonderful job of presenting a complex person who is both intelligent and very insecure, comfortable buried in books but uncomfortable, with few exceptions, when interacting with others. The sadness of his situation with Rose is that he invested so much in this relationship because it was his only real friendship, whereas Rose had plenty of friends and didn't need Philip.

I also wonder how accurate a picture of Maugham's early years we're getting. From the little I've read of his life, I suspect it's emotionally fairly accurate.

At the end of Chapter 21, when Philip finally gets permission to go to Germany, he realizes that he really doesn't want to go.

He asked himself dully whether whenever you got your way you wished afterwards that you hadn't.

I hope this isn't foreshadowing. If it is, he's in for a lot of heartache.

What do people think of the passage in Chapter 24:

But one mark of a writer's greatness is that different minds can find in him different inspirations; and Professor Erlin, who hated the Prussians, gave his enthusiastic admiration to Goethe because his works, Olympian and sedate, offered the only refuge for a sane mind against the onslaughts of the present generation.

We're talking here, I take it, about Prussian militarism pre-WWI.

Someone is supposed to be away for a weekend. It looks like Everyman is back to his usual excellent business!

Janice George (JG) wrote: This certainly hit home for me. I am surprised at how many people here have had such happy childhoods... everyone I know has spent time overcoming their childhoods. Frankly, there isn't enough money in this world to get me to relive my childhood or adolescence.

That was just me. And I wouldn't like to relive it either, you cannot go back to being a child once you've grown up anyway.

I don't like Philip, but I don't dislike him either, I agree with most of what has been said above about Maugham creating an excellent portrayal of an intelligent and yet deeply insecure boy. We'll see if he comes over it.

I liked the description of Hayward close to the end of this section:
The companionship of Hayward was the worst possible thing for Philip. He was a man who saw nothing for himself, but only through a literary atmosphere, and he was dangerous because he had deceived himself into sincerity. He honestly mistook his sensuality for romantic emotion, his vacillation for the artistic temperament, and his idleness for philosophic calm. His mind, vulgar in its effort at refinement, saw everything a little larger than life size, with the outlines blurred, in a golden mist of sentimentality. He lied and never knew that he lied, and when it was pointed out to him said that lies are beautiful. He was an idealist.

Hayward's personality was dissected pretty thoroughly here. I almost felt sorry for the guy at that point :).

Everyman wrote: "Nina wrote: "About Philip being easily swayed by e.g. hayworth: I couldn't help but thinking "I get ya, Philip!" When you are lonely and hungry for friendship or just someone to talk to it's easy t..."

I meant agreeing with Hayworth that the food was horrible, even though Philip actually liked it. Weeks wasn't present then. But I agree with you. Also, didn't Hayworth approach Philip first? Maybe that was an extra incentive to choose the "exciting" Hayworth. Philip didn't have to take the first step.

Teanka wrote: "I liked the description of Hayward close to the end of this section:
The companionship of Hayward was the worst possible thing for Philip. He was a man who saw nothing for himself, but only through a literary atmosphere, and he was dangerous because he had deceived himself into sincerity. He honestly mistook his sensuality for romantic emotion, his vacillation for the artistic temperament, and his idleness for philosophic calm...."

Yes, it's a great description, and Maugham does an excellent job of presenting us with the psychology underlying Hayward's behavior, which makes it easy to feel sorry for him. He can't see past his own delusions, he fools himself. A sad state of affairs.

Everyman@25: "Well, yes, but he could easily have chosen Weeks. I think there's an additional element here...".

I agree with everything you said here. Building off this thread, we see a commonality between Rose and Hayward. Both are physically attractive and dashing, with a rather charismatic ease and confidence about them. To someone with very little self-esteem, it would feel like an honor to be chosen by a person like that. Because, you could almost feel like, just to be chosen would make you one of them. Your idea of what is ideal.

The problem is that, as the old saying goes, "all that glitters is not gold". Sooner or later, someone or something is going to rub that shiny polish off your golden idol and then you have to make a choice. Do you keep that relationship, flaws and all, with eyes wide open and a good perspective in place? Do you shed it, perhaps thinking such a relationship isn't all that good for you? Or do you intentionally blind yourself to the reality, even to the point of resenting anyone who may rub off that shiny exterior, revealing the rather cheap metal underneath?

This last choice is one Philip makes while in the glow of his quasi infatuation with Hayward. He resents Weeks' delicately rubbing off all of Hayward's fake gold, to the point that Philip defends Hayward even when Hayward is obviously wrong. In fact, Hayward's ignorance bothers Philip a whole lot more than it bothers Hayward.

Hayward's lifetime of skillful denial, combined with his lack of true introspection, combined with that very important 300 pounds a year, are tools which will probably keep him comfortably afloat and relatively happy for years to come. Not having to work for a living keeps many a bubble from bursting. :)

You have to worry though...will Philip continue to be blindly attracted to the shiny like a moth to the flame? Or, is this something he will grow out of as he matures and, hopefully, develops a sense of self that comes from within (rather than from someone else)?

I worry about this shy young man.

Paula, I really like your analysis of Rose and Hayward. I hadn't looked at it that way and you're right.

I'm also worried about Philip. I didn't like him much in this section because he was occasionally mean and didn't show much of the sensitivity I thought I saw in the first section.

Janice George (JG) wrote: "Yes, it's a great description, and Maugham does an excellent job of presenting us with the psychology underlying Hayward's behavior, which makes it easy to feel sorry for him. He can't see past his own delusions, he fools himself. "

And Philip can't see past them, either.

Paula wrote: "This last choice is one Philip makes while in the glow of his quasi infatuation with Hayward. He resents Weeks' delicately rubbing off all of Hayward's fake gold, to the point that Philip defends Hayward even when Hayward is obviously wrong. In fact, Hayward's ignorance bothers Philip a whole lot more than it bothers Hayward. "

That's a nice, and very telling, observation.

Paula wrote: "You have to worry though...will Philip continue to be blindly attracted to the shiny like a moth to the flame? Or, is this something he will grow out of as he matures and, hopefully, develops a sense of self that comes from within (rather than from someone else)?

I worry about this shy young man. "

And I suspect that you are right to worry.

This section is hitting a little too close to home asmy youngest is at a stage where what she thinks is a great idea is something that makes me think a la 'Lost in Space's robot 'Danger!Danger Will Robinson!!'(I can't believe I just referred to this show...). However,she is 19 and after I've strongly voiced my opinion and concerns,have to trust it will be okay. I'm trying not to see myself as Mrs. Carey right now.

Ginny wrote: "This section is hitting a little too close to home asmy youngest is at a stage where what she thinks is a great idea is something that makes me think a la 'Lost in Space's robot 'Danger!Danger Will..."

As I remember it, there is nothing on God's green earth as alarming as a 19 year-old...

Preach it!

Well, Phillips continues to not greatly enjoy his school years and we can see the man start to grow out from the boy. He's clearly greatly handicapped from his total(?) lack of social interaction up until his school years. His friendship with Rose is a great indication; passionate, jealous and intense (homosexual tones?) which crashes and burns. It seems a shame to say that Philip needs to know more about his fellow creatures to avoid being hurt and realise that his intense feelings for Rose are unlikely to reciprocated to the same degree but that's the world he lives in and of course he ends up being very hurt and expressing it very poorly.

One thing I also noted was his stubbornness pushing past his fear of rejection. He insists on having it out with Rose rather than just leaving it alone.

The whole school years felt oh so familiar to me even after so many years distance. The petty rivalries, the jealousy, the cutting of the nose to spite the face. Philip seems so very human to me here. The way he wants what he is told he can't have but the way in which he can be often swayed by those who take the time to try to connect with him in a caring way. Philip is lonely for love. He starts to look back on his memories of his mother and miss her.

Regarding the Headmaster, we see a different side of him now I think. He's a clever man but seems very uncaring of people's sensibilities. The dinner party with the staff for example. When I first listened to it I thought it great; not being ashamed of his past. But now I saw it from another angle. Was it really necessary to make everyone so uncomfortable? Was he oblivious or just wanting to rub it in everybody's face. Then the subject of the buildings, it was funny but was it really gentlemanly to tease or taunt someone when you are in a position of authority over them? Because I had liked him for his treatment of Philip I had taken a positive view of both of these actions, now I had to reasse my views and, in doing so, myself for being biased based on his treatment of Philip.

Mr Perkins brings pressure to bear on Philip to steer him along the path he thinks most suitable. Is it kindly meant? Yes. But nowhere does he really take the time to get to know Philip and discuss it over with him. We see Mr Perkins' prejudices on display here and as Philip begins to resist his direction the autocratic side of his nature comes out.

Philip does get his own way, probably due to the influence of his aunt, and he leaves 3 months before the end of the school year. He rather spitefully taunts the other schoolkids with the thought that he is going to get the scholarships they want and leaves for Germany. Rather an imbecilic decision I think and a prime example of the previous mentioned 'cut off nose to spite face'. I, unfortunately, do see a lot of myself in my younger years here...

In Germany I think he finally tastes a bit of freedom, both in action and thought. He doesn't necessarily make the most of everything but he recognises its beauty and he is happy. I like him the most here; he displays some sensitivity and fumbling boyishness which is endearing.

Things change again when Hayward shows up. I thought Philips reaction to their first meeting worthy of note; he takes an immediate dislike to him because he is wearing a pale blue tie? What sort of nonsense is that meant to be? Are Philips judgements really that superficial? Haywards character is not long a mystery to either ourselves or Weeks but Philip continues to be rather dazzled and he seems to fall under his spell (or perhaps refuses to be woken up from it) even when Weeks demonstrates that Hayward really isn't as wonderful as he tries to portray himself. That comment about revealed religion was hilarious!

Hayward talks a lot of drivel about a lot of things but I think what was really real in that house were the relationships, the human bonds that make up real life. Fraulein Thekla and Cacilie.

Paula wrote: Anyway, plot aside, what a wonderful writer! His prose is so clear and elegant,free of florid embellishments and curlicues. It's a pleasure to read - it has such an easy flow to it.

That was what he was famed for and why he's my favourite short story writer. He was writing in the pomo era so he did get a bit of flack for being 'old fashioned'. I can never be sufficiently grateful that he stuck with the style that he did. His marvellous short stories have enriched my life.

Nina wrote:
How do you see him? Do you like him?

I see him as a human being, certainly more than just a name on a page. He is very real to me, full of apparent contradictions and weaknesses and faults. At the moment he's a young man hovering on the brink and could go either way.

I don't know if I like him, I don't dislike him either though. I also usually don't care about 'liking' protagonists. So long as they are interesting and well written I'll 'like' them even if I can't stand them!

Sarah wrote:I'm also worried about Philip. I didn't like him much in this section because he was occasionally mean and didn't show much of the sensitivity I thought I saw in the first section.

I saw more sensitivity, or at least consideration for others. I didn't think Philip displayed any at all in his early years. School was pretty difficult to judge him on because he wasn't very happy there but when he went to Germany his actions would occasionally show a thoughtfulness which I haven't seen him show before.

Nicola wrote: " I thought Philips reaction to their first meeting worthy of note; he takes an immediate dislike to him because he is wearing a pale blue tie? What sort of nonsense is that meant to be? ."

It could have meaning for English readers of his age that it doesn't have for us. Ties in England often had significance; regiments had their own ties, colleges and schools did. When I was 11 my parents spent six months in England and put my sister and me in a boarding school, where we had a school uniform which included a school tie for boys and scarf for girls that we had to wear to all classes and indoor school events (not sports, and not outside of class). A pale blue tie might have meant something to Maugham's readers (and to Philip).

I struggled a bit with this section both because Philip irritated me and well I thought it went on for too long.

That being said I give Maugham full credit for accurately portraying the emotional development of a teenager. And I see many traits in Philip that I also see in teenagers raised in broken homes, chaotic homes, or in foster care. The all or nothing friendships, the downplaying of any compliment, the "well I didn't like them anyway" if they feel something is unattainable. The goal truly being to avoid further abandonment, rejection, or failure.

I've read through all of the posts and I agree with most of what has been discussed. I completely agree with the suggestion that Rose and Hayward are essentially the same person. I would further that in saying the Mr Perkins and Weeks are the same person. Both tried to guide Philip not in completely telling him what to do but by trying to teach him to think and consider all possibilities. Unfortunately, their presence wasn't strong enough to help Philip have enough confidence to move forward in a positive way.

I think it is interesting to note the role that his disability plays in who he is becoming as a person. I think this is best seen in the following quote from Mr. Perkins. "As long as you accept it rebelliously it can only cause you shame. But if you looked upon it as a cross that was given to you to bear..... then it would be a source of happiness to you instead of misery"

A child with a disability knows nothing but his disability. And to the child it is a disability only if someone tells him it is. If a child is taught that the disability is no big deal or makes them special but does not limit them, that child will accept it. Bullying is an unfortunate part of childhood and worse for children that are different but a confident child will be able to take it head on.

Philip was not this confident child. From early on, it seems everyone is either pitying him for his deformity or is outwardly revolted by it. There is mention early on the his club foot was a burden for his mother to bear. He was clearly isolated from other children and he was constantly putting forth shamefully that he couldn't keep up because of his club foot. His teachers make exceptions and don't punish him because he is a "cripple". He is being taught to make excuses and run away from challenges or things that are uncomfortable.

On a completely different side note, I find it somewhat puzzling that nothing was done when he was an infant to correct the club foot. Modern techniques for fixing this condition came about in the early 1800's and were pretty simple and inexpensive to carry out. Was there shame at having a "deformed" child so great? Or am I just a medical nerd (well my little patients appreciate it).

One day of vacation left and almost caught up.

Stephanie, the fact that they didn't correct his club foot is even more interesting since his father was a doctor. When I read this I was surprised about the club foot but I didn't actually know the history.

That is interesting. I always think of medicine as being pretty primitive and ineffectual in this time period, so the fact that a treatment was available but not utilized by his own father is puzzling!

The current treatment for club foot is serial casting from a young age. In the 1800's they used foot wrapping to accomplish the same thing. Likely not a perfect fix but it's clear Philip had not treatment.