Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

Hi Everyone! I'll be moderating our July discussion of Loving Day by Mat Johnson. Like Passing, Plum Bun, The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man, and Oreo, Loving Day is a novel about the search for self-identity and the politics of skin color in America. It most closely reminds me of Oreo in that it uses satire instead of realism to make its points.

For those who like context about the author before they begin a novel, Mat Johnson's website is a spoiler-free introduction to the author and his books.

I'm really looking forward to July 1 and I'll post a suggested reading schedule soon.

Happy reading!

I am looking forward to my first read with the group!

Finished it today. I won't rate it till I hear and consider others comments. Mat Johnson is always intriguing. Loved his "Pym"...hated his "Hunting in Harlem".

I encouraged my library system to purchase copies of the book and they're in process now. Hopefully they'll be in by time the discussion starts. Never read this author before and I'm looking forward to the discussion.

I'll be joining in. I have my copy and will get started soon.

Great! For those of you who have finished, plus those who like background reading for context as you read--

NPR has a very informative interview with Mat Johnson, where he discusses the autobiographical nature of his novels, here:

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitc...

Also, one thing I like about Johnson is he really feels connected with other writers who have explored the same territory. A lot of who he is as an author comes through in this review he wrote for Oreo by Fran Ross, here:

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/09/1342047...

Hi everybody! I'm not sure I'm not sure where we all are in reading Loving Day...plus it's a holiday weekend...but how does it sound to open discussion of the first three chapters on Monday July 6?

That will be to page 41. It's a good place to break in the story for discussion even for those who have read more.

If people are still locating a copy to read, or want to take more time, speak up. We can take it a little slow in the beginning if needed because it's a swift read.

I finished the book this morning and liked it a lot. I'll keep my copy close by to discuss it part by part.

Thanks Karen. I've finished it too but I'm enjoying rereading it, more slowly than before. Looking forward to Monday.

I finished it yesterday and am probably one of the few who didn't like it. Many aspects of it seemed too improbable for me to really believe in this story.

I think we are going to have a lot of different reactions to this novel, Louise.

On June 29 The Free Library of Philadelphia Podcast recorded Mat Johnson and Walter Mosley at a joint reading of their new books,. The podcast is available on ITunes and also here:

https://libwww.freelibrary.org/podcas...

This podcast is spoiler free. Among other things you'll hear Mat Johnson read from the first chapter of his novel. His interpretation was unexpected to me--he emphasizes words in a rhythmic way that hit me more like a poetry reading rather than a more standard prose reading. Contrasting his style and public personality to Moseley's is also interesting. Also, you'll a little background about Philadelphia--it's where the reading took place, where Johnson's novel takes place, and where Johnson grew up.

Poingu wrote: "I think we are going to have a lot of different reactions to this novel, Louise.

On June 29 The Free Library of Philadelphia Podcast recorded Mat Johnson and Walter Mosley at a joint reading of th..."
Brilliant ,thankyou just listened to this,see what you mean about his reading

Here is a discussion schedule for Loving Day. We'll start out a little slower than usual to give people a chance to locate the book and catch up:

Chapters 1-3: July 6-12 (41 pps)
Chapters 4-13: July 13-19 (125 pps)
Chapters 14-24: July 20-26 (117 pps)
Wrap up discussion of whole book/themes/thoughts: July 27-31.

Feel free to share at any time thoughts about chapters already finished in the schedule, as well.

Poingu wrote: "Here is a discussion schedule for Loving Day. We'll start out a little slower than usual to give people a chance to locate the book and catch up:

Chapters 1-3: July 6-12 (41 pps)
Chapters 4-13: Ju..."

Sounds good, thanks. If this book doesn't arrive in my library soon I guess I'll be forced to buy it. I would hate to miss this discussion since this book is on everyone's must read list and receiving a lot of buzz.

I had to buy this one as well in order to take part. I think it was worth it! I enjoyed the book and I know I learned from it and will learn even more from the discussion.

Mat Johnson told NPR in an interview: "I grew up a black boy who looked like a white one. My African-American mother and Irish-American father divorced when I was 4. I was raised mostly by my black mom in a black neighborhood in Philadelphia during the Black Power movement. "

Mat Johnson's protagonist, Warren Duffy, also grew up a black boy who looked like a white one, and his African American mother and Irish American father also divorced when he was a kid. Like his real-life creator, Duffy was also raised in Philadelphia.

Here is a question to start off our discussion today: How does the obvious similarity between the novel's fictional protagonist and the author's lived experience affect your reading of this novel?

poingu, just wanted to say, thank you for leading and i'll start reading the book today. :)

Poingu wrote: "Mat Johnson told NPR in an interview: "I grew up a black boy who looked like a white one. My African-American mother and Irish-American father divorced when I was 4. I was raised mostly by my black..."

I like reading novels where the author and the protagonist share similarities. It makes me feel more connected to the story because there's the chance that some of it may be true. This generally works only after I'm familiar with the author and like their other writing. (I enjoyed Pym).

Evelyn wrote: "I like reading novels where the author and the protagonist share similarities. It makes me feel more connected to the story because there's the chance that some of it may be true. "

I feel the similarity between author and protagonist changes my reading too but I'm not sure how comfortable I am with it. One thing is that I tend to forgive Warren Duffy his failings more than I would if he were a completely made-up person, who had nothing in common with the author...because I like Mat Johnson in his interviews and his other writings.

But at the same time, Duffy still feels fairly despicable to me in these early chapters, so I find myself needing to guard against projecting negative feelings somewhat onto Mat Johnson. It's very tricky.

I just found the essay "Proving My Blackness" by Mat Johnson, from the New York Times Magazine in May:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/mag...

Poingu wrote: "Mat Johnson told NPR in an interview: "I grew up a black boy who looked like a white one. My African-American mother and Irish-American father divorced when I was 4. I was raised mostly by my black..."
Johnson's description of the Germantown section of Philadelphia is spot on. I grew up not to far away and had cousins who lived Iin a huge house on a hill overlooking the main drag, Lincoln Drive. With its long and twisting driveway Johnson could have been describing it! But I'm a generation or more older than he and the decay he talks of had not yet occurred when I last visited.!it was still grand and the richest place where black folks lived that I had ever seen. So yes this part of the book was very personal and brought back a lot of memories for me.
I also had relatives in the not so nice part of neighboring North Philly. It pains me to hear that that neighborhood is encroaching on Germantown and not the other way around.

William wrote: "Johnson's description of the Germantown section of Philadelphia is spot on."

Yes, the verisimilitude of the neighborhood descriptions resonated with me too, especially the idea of huge formerly lush houses now shells of their former glory, although in my case my family was from Chester.

I have a few more questions for people who have gotten through chapter 3. What do you think of Warren Duffy at this point? Do you like him? Do you trust him? Is he one of the good guys?

Here are some observations from me fwiw. The narrative voice is appealing, warm. He feels like an extremely affable guy. Even though he describes himself as a big man, he is scared of being alone in a house at night. He gives the impression that he wouldn't hurt a fly. He is disarmingly sweet in his interactions with others.

But I also learn in these early chapters that he was estranged enough from his dad to not know when his dad was dying alone of pneumonia; that he claims to identify as black but married the whitest person he could find and moved to Wales; that once he eagerly participated in what sounds suspiciously like date rape ("I found a drunk girl at a house party in West Philly who was willing, after a twenty-minute introduction, to partner in intercourse in an upstairs study"...); and that he abandoned his girlfriend after learning she was pregnant.

i don't know that i got the date rape bit but the language is bad bad bad. yes.

i do like him. i think race is already front and center, hey? this strong identification with blackness, the fear of not being recognized as black, the having to employ "black" language and mannerisms so that people will know. and he's so scared of everything. so so scared.

i'm into the fourth chapter now, and it seems so fascinating to me how important it is to warren that a black person (someone with a parent who is at least in some way, to some degree black) owns and gets to appreciate their black culture.

the other characters feel the same, too.

there are jewish people who feel nothing about being jewish. i wonder if there are black people who feel nothing about being black.

also, the marginalization of blackness in the world of comics.

jo wrote: "i do like him. i think race is already front and center, hey? this strong identification with blackness, the fear of not being recognized as black, the having to employ "black" language and mannerisms so that people will know. and he's so scared of everything. so so scared."

ok. I'm going to like him too then. That was my first instinct. He is certainly honest about his failings and his fears.

I like how you're tapping into how scared he is, so true. Even with the lightness of the narrative tone his fragility comes through in the way every human interaction he participates in is a fraught dance of wondering how the other person will categorize him.

Poingu wrote: "I like how you're tapping into how scared he is, so true. Even with the lightness of the narrative tone his fragility comes through in the way every human interaction he participates in is a fraught dance of wondering how the other person will categorize him."

very nicely said!

I liked Warren. I especially liked that he jumped right in with his daughter and never whined about taking her into his life. I enjoyed the Comicon scene quite a bit. I'm a comics fan and have also been to many similar events, so I could just picture him at that table. Once again, the book brings issues to the table that I haven't known too much about. Warren's struggles to be recognized as black is one of them.

While the character Warren did seem to be a very nice fellow my first impressions were rather negative. He seemed so naive and gullible. And in desperate need of a backbone transplant. I mean really who goes without laying eyes on a rumored daughter for seventeen years and doesn't go on Muary to determine if "You are the Father"? (Kidding...but it did seem at first that he was being taken for a ride.

Time to open discussion through ch. 14. Welcome to readers who have just gotten their hands on the book recently.

Chs. 4 and 5 are an interesting contrast in tone even as the central theme of skin color keeps on like a drumbeat in every scene.

Ch 4 has probably the most raw expression in the novel of Warren's pain and alienation because of his skin color, beginning on page 43, bottom of the page, with "But I have another scenario in my head...". What did you think of it?

Then Ch 5 in contrast is mostly a relentless over-the-top skewering of Umoja Charter School and its traditions, culminating in Principal Kamau admonishing Warren on page 62, beginning with "She shouldn't be jumping up...". What did you think of it?

I read an ebook ARC of the book so I can't go back to read these sections. I do remember finding it weird that so much emphasis was placed on her not jumping up. She would have hated going to school there.

What I found interesting in Chapter 5 was that Kamau's son was biracial. so it appears the principal only talks the talk,however loudly he talks it. It also seems thatvcontroling women and keeping them in their preferred space is high on his agenda, which is what I got out of the jumping issue. But in reality, it seems everyone has their own agenda and wants to shape Warren into their own image.

George wrote: "But in reality, it seems everyone has their own agenda and wants to shape Warren into their own image. "

Yes, what you say feels exactly right to me about Warren.

But also in these chapters I feel Mat Johnson letting loose his own frustrations, with the identity constraints he feels in daily life. He has made this personal. And either because of the story line or because of his own agenda he mostly ends up criticizing African Americans for their rigid thinking about skin and identity.

In many respects Johnson's mockery of the Umoja Charter School in Ch. 5 feels shockingly mean to me. I keep wondering: Funny, or offensive? Are the Umoja scenes so over the top that it's ok for Johnson to mock an oppressed people's natural interest in developing cultural norms that don't trace back to Europe, because, wink, we aren't meant to take it seriously?

OTOH, If it's just funny, and not meant to be serious on any level, then what's the point of it?

to me it seems everyone, including Warren, is trying to find their identity, but much of the effort put into it is artificial, even if well intended, more or less. I'm not sure how well intended everything at Umoja actually is. Does it reflect actual cultural norms or is it more or less a Frankenstein creation taking parts randomly of various peoples and sewing them together?

I don't think he's making fun of the intention but rather the effort to impose the school's interpretation of it somewhat forcefully on others. It is one possible path, but is it the only path to the exclusion of all other paths?

for that matter do you find the presentation of the other school somewhat less mocking? the invention of the word mulattopia seems to fairly drip sarcasm.

In any case, I'm still working out how I feel about Warren and the book.time will tell. I've no idea how it will be resolved.

George wrote: "for that matter do you find the presentation of the other school somewhat less mocking? the invention of the word mulattopia seems to fairly drip sarcasm."

Thanks for all these thoughts George. You're really making me think too about my responses to these chapters. This is my second time through the novel so I'm being more analytical this time and I'm questioning everything. I guess I'm doing what some people call "interrogating the text."

I think there is a very complex kind of satire at work in this novel. It makes me uncomfortable. That might be a good thing though.

If I compare Loving Day with Welcome to Braggsville, another recent novel that uses satire to cast light on the absurdities of racial beliefs and identity politics, I find I have no trouble identifying the targets of satire in Braggsville, and quite a bit of trouble unthreading what Johnson is getting at. I'm a little uncomfortable with Johnson's barbs because i'm not sure about their intended target.

Part of the added complexity of the Loving Day satire for me is the first person autobiographical nature of the story. Johnson has indicated that the novel is in many ways autobiographical. At times Warren Duffy comes across as judgmental and self-pitying and the first person viewpoint doesn't allow me to understand fully whether that is a deliberate choice by Johnson or a bit of a blind spot. Braggsville OTOH is written in third person and the author, T. Geronimo Johnson, has very little in common with his protagonist. It makes it easier to unthread the beliefs of the fictional character from the beliefs of the author.

Sorry to be so vague here--I'm still trying to sort it out. Mostly likely I am overthinking. I do think satire is tricky, though, and I'm trying to be thoughtful about what is making me laugh in this story, and who the joke is on. Your response helped me a lot and I hope other people chime in soon too.

if it really is all that autobiographical, then I think it would be fair to say Mat has a very self-deprecating sense of humor but is more or less willing to share the blame among the general population.

But I'd say if you're feeling uncomfortable with it all, you're probably pretty normal. Warren/Matt seems pretty damn uncomfortable with it all as well. He starts out wanting everyone to see him as black and strives to prove his black credentials and then when confronted at the comic book convention starts to take in other thoughts from Sunita. At this point in my reading he seems to be working out how he feels about her beliefs. and what do we make of his daughter? One day she's white and the next day she's what, black? Is race a state of mind then?

We've been wrestling with all this for a very long time with no indication that we're really any closer to a solution than when we started. It seems we're all scrambling to put together our thoughts on this while striking out at others to hide our insecurities.

As an educator, I really read the section describing the schools as satire on the educational system in general and charter schools specifically. I guess I felt the Umoja Charter School was an extreme example of how ridiculous schools and administrators can seem when they force an ideology on their students. I don't know if this is way off base because it probably has more to do with my education background than with the racial questions in the book, but it was my reaction.

This might be a big long OT swerve, but since we're a little quiet let me see.

I'm continuing to think through my discomfort about whether I want to laugh about the things Johnson is asking me to laugh about. My discomfort led me to this essay about the work of Lois-Ann Yamanaka, a Hawaiian author who specializes in discomfort:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/a...

pt 2: http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/...

The essay is worth reading if only for its unabashed championing of works that make us feel discomfort: "the best writers deliberately create experiences of pain, precisely in order to make their readers feel it in the imagination -- which engenders catharsis and enlightens readers as to the nature of human existence. "

A couple more excerpts--

1. Hawaiian critic Candace Fujikane is quoted being critical of authors of color who promote racist stereotypes of their own: "Do we speak out about our experiences of pain only to create new pain for someone else? Why do writers write? What purpose does their writing serve?"

2. The author of the essay, Jamie James, responds: Fujikane suggests a pyramid of political empowerment to guide Hawaiian writers: Yamanaka is Japanese-American, the group asserted to be the most privileged of the nonwhites on the islands; therefore her bad guys must be either Japanese-American or white. A Filipino writer, presumably, might have white, Japanese, or Filipino villains, while native Hawaiians, most disempowered of all, are free to heap abuse on everyone.

Tomorrow we'll open discussion up for the entire novel--all spoilers allowed. Is that ok with everyone still? Anyone still trying to finish up who plans to join the discussion?

Comments are now open for Mat Johnson's Loving Day--the novel as a whole.

I'm about 70% through the book. I hope to be finished on Tuesday. I'm finding the book quite amusing and interesting. I'm enjoying it. It's lighthearted with some fairly heavy themes regarding family and identity. My thoughts are still congealing but I had two opinions/questions. First is a question. Are there in the US educational system exist schools with general themes of biracial (regardless of what the races are)? I realize that identity struggle/crisis can exist and can be accentuated in the internal struggle within someone of multiracial descent. That struggle is not necessarily unique to biracial backgrounds.

Second is a perception. From my perspective, all of Johnson's biracial characters "lean black". They all have their quirks etc, but they seem to behave in a manor and/or characteristics that I characterize as black. Certainly it could just be me projecting my own point of view on the characters or it could be that is how they are written. Irv doesn't lean black, his family doesn't lean black, Elijah doesn't lean black. There is only one character that doesn't lean black that is black and that's George. That in itself is also interesting (could be more of an indication of my world view than of Johnson's characterization). I'm sure I could write an essay on what it means to me to "lean black". I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm missing the uniqueness of biracial identity in this book. It's coming off feeling a lot like being black.

As a caveat, I'm having a difficult time (some discomfort) in expressing my opinion on this for probably some sensitivity over which adjectives to use when describing racial identities such as African-American as black or lean black etc. Maybe that illustrates some success in what Johnson is trying to do with this novel.

Poingu wrote: "This might be a big long OT swerve, but since we're a little quiet let me see.

I'm continuing to think through my discomfort about whether I want to laugh about the things Johnson is asking me to ..."

I guess I read of Yamanaka's discomforting intentions in a different way than I read Johnson's. In terms of sexual issues and abuse, Yamanaka seems to bringing light to a subject that needs more attention (speaking of which, anyone here read Morrison's God Help the Child? Similar thing going on there). In terms of drawing attention to poverty, etc., in Hawaii, I have a similar opinion. However, in terms of race, the main discomfort I feel from Yamanaka is that she is approaching non-Japanese representations in a very one-sided and one-dimensional way, and THAT makes it uncomfortable to me in a way that I feel is unproductive and potentially damaging to readers.

I don't accuse Mat Johnson of having this same approach. In fact, while Warren jokes about the "mixie pixies" in a way that sometimes conflates them, Warren does spend quite a bit of time contemplating and questioning the nuances of mixed races, and the possibilities that he is not accounting for all mixtures, etc.

I totally understand both the positive and negative aspects of what Fujikane is arguing in the above article. I get that it is not Johnson or Yamanaka's jobs to police representations, but I think that Johnson--in his sly self-referential way that I suspect some might be annoyed by based on the comments so far--is at the least confronting the problem of policing in the first place while also acknowledging the privilege that comes with maybe any percentage of whiteness that can be physically owned - like Tosha insisting that Warren is black and that he is abandoning black people by acknowledging his partial whiteness. Take her quote: "We've got black boys being used for target practice by white cops out there, we've got a prison system overflowing with victims of white judgment... We have a crisis. Right now. Not in the eighteenth century, not in the civil rights era, but right now." There's a sense in which having the ability to own up to even partial whiteness based on our current standards (as in - if you "look white" or "talk white" then you get to talk about mixed race in a way that someone who does not "look" or "talk" white cannot) comes with a privilege.

Anyway - really interesting to think about. Glad we chose this book for this month.

The questions and perceptions I posed in the earlier comment were addressed in the last 30% of the book. I thought this book was funny, challenging and thoughtful. Challenging in terms of raising a mirror/pointing out that the way we view things is our own internal narrative/judging and that "otherness" is "otherness" no matter what kind of "other".

I found it interesting that the character of Tosha appears to represent the multicultural, but not as readily identified multicultural (as in the interracial aspects of her lineage was a few generations back) would take umbrage that people with biracial parents would want to explore their own identity. There is a hidden resentment there that people can choose their identity. In the book Americanah Infemelu points out that “In America, you don’t get to decide what race you are. It is decided for you.” In Loving Day we see that some people do have a choice and we glimpse some of the resentment that results because there is a choice. Tosha acts as if in some way that diminishes her that some people have a choice and she does not.

I also liked that Johnson early in the book talks about the numerous reasons for biracial pairing and acknowledges that not all of them are based on the notion of equality, racial harmony and love.

Lastly, though I'm not male or biracial (though my father was), I share a similar worldview with Johnson. I understood his internal conflicts and his humor and satire (for the most part). I identified with his characters. I still maintain that all of the biracial characters "lean black", but as the book points out, we cast our own stuff on how we view things. “Our brain accepts what the eyes see and our eye looks for whatever our brain wants.” ~ Daniel Gilbert. I found the protagonist quite likable but with numerous flaws. There were no villains in this story, just some misguided actions based on misplaced anger and resentment (Tosha in particular, though Sun, One Drop and Rosalyn are in there too). I enjoyed the book and I can see more Mat Johnson in my future.

Monica wrote: " I enjoyed the book and I can see more Mat Johnson in my future. "

Monica, I'm so glad for your post. I was hoping there would be someone with unabashed love for this novel. Loving Day was kind of like a wool sweater to me--functional and maybe even beautiful but also itchy in places. A lot of my mixed feelings have to do with my own biases and prejudices and likes and dislikes, and nothing to do with the novel. In a way that's the best thing about having read it--like all good satire it really challenged me to think about identity, and especially, about who gets to decide--those who perceive, or those being perceived.

Very early in the novel, p. 27, Warren first sees Sunita he says:

She looks like me. My tribe. Same skin color, same hair color...she could be my twin. I saw another lost fraternal twin once on Fifteenth and Walnut, in the summer, when I was sixteen. I only saw her for two seconds, maybe for four, before she turned off the sidewalk and into an air-conditioned boutique...a woman so instantly familiar I have thought of her for decades. I've thought of her and the idea that there could be someone walking around on this earth who was your mirror. That if you found them, if you connected with them, joined with them, you would never again feel alone.

I'm going back and quoting this because it feels pivotal in many ways to what comes after--Warren's actual, true feeling about where he belongs is in a group no one else has named yet. He is saying he is not "bi-racial" or "black" or anything at all, except a member of this scattered tribe of others, who have no identified name, but still, he identifies.

It's also a place where satire drops away and what's left is clarity and loneliness. It's dangerous to attribute characters' feelings to authors but this feels like a core of truth about his life that Mat Johnson will come back to again and again.

Leah wrote: "I don't accuse Mat Johnson of having this same approach. In fact, while Warren jokes about the "mixie pixies" in a way that sometimes conflates them, Warren does spend quite a bit of time contemplating and questioning the nuances of mixed races, and the possibilities that he is not accounting for all mixtures, etc. "

Leah, I totally agree with what you wrote here. Thanks for taking the time. It's interesting to me to unspool unspoken the racist assumptions in fiction--usually racist in the unthinking way of everyone being white in novels unless the author is not, but also instances like Yamanaka's writing where I wonder about her motives or her control over her own story. I agree that what Johnson is doing is so deliberate and obvious that there is not the same question about his reasons for writing racial stereotypes--he is clearly setting these up to knock them down again.

I thought I would submit more postings to this thread but I had intermittent wifi for the past couple weeks. I liked the book. Johnson tackles a subset of the long running US race problem. The one drop rule. Had anyone heard of a "sunflower" before reading this. I hadn't. Oreos, of course, but militant sunflowers was a new one. I suppose as society relaxes its identity strictures and covenants its only logical that people would rebel against being called "black" no matter the amount of Black blood in your veins. And given that the one drop rule was the actual law of the land throughout the time of Blacks existence in the U.S., you could bet on a backlash against those that chose to rebel.
I pondered the case of ex CNN reporter, Soledad O'Brien when reading the book. She strongly identifies herself as Black although one of her parents is White. She then also married a White man and had children. Does she raise them as Black although they clearly have more White blood than Black?

I had never heard the term "sunflower" before reading this book either. I found the evolution of the one drop rule translated into life today to be the most interesting aspect of the book. Our state racial identity case of Rachel Dolezal in Spokane identifying as black with not even one drop of blood has been an interesting one to follow as well. I would be interested to hear your views on her if you've been following that story.

I hadn't heard of the term "sunflower" either. It did occur to me that the author could have made it up for the story. What also struck me (as I believe it did the character Warren) was that it doesn't have the impact that is intended because he hadn't heard it either. Once he understood it's meaning he seemed to have embraced it. It would seem that unless you grow up with that word being derogatory, it's meaning is more descriptive than negative (unless you interpret the phrase "yellow on the outside, black on the inside" as derogatory).

As far as Rachel Dolezal, I haven't been following the story that closely. Back when I was growing up the term for her would be "wannabe". Her behavior in my mind is not as uncommon as the media would like us to believe.

maybe it's a Philly thing, sunflower. maybe Johnson's hoping it will catch on.

As for Dolezal, I am so over her. Her 15 minutes have come and gone. TTFN

I'm going to have to go back over the book though, at least for the last 50 pages or so. Wasn't crazy about him running about trying to burn the house down.

I'd say the thing that struct me about the book is how little the arguments have changed over the 40 years or so I've been hearing them, since college.

George wrote: "I'd say the thing that struct me about the book is how little the arguments have changed over the 40 years or so I've been hearing them, since college."

I'm not sure when you went to college, but I think things have changed a lot since I was in college when it comes to identity politics. Some of Johnson's observations seem to be more the way people thought about identity in the late 70's, immediately following a decade or more of the Black Power/Black Arts movements. A few years before I got there my college first established its "Ujamaa" hall, and black students who didn't live there felt a fair amount of disapproval/disappointment from those who did, where they were more or less pressured to change their minds or be considered less than authentically black. It was a political statement for black students not to join Ujamaa, as much as it was to join.

I don't think it's the same now--for better or worse there is not as much focus on forging a separate identity and culture as there was in those times. While the Black Power movement divided people, I also think something has been lost from those times--there was so much good in it too. I think of the utter disregard for Ebonics in the 90's for example, the media ridicule heaped on teachers who saw African American verbal language as something clearly separate from written standard English, something to be paid attention to and honored, where teachers perceived how pointing out the differences to students would allow those students access into standard written English much more quickly than pretending the phonics and spelling 'mistakes' in their writing were random, rather than logical assumptions based on their verbal experience...I wonder if the circus of negative media attention around Ebonics would have happened in the 70's when Black Power was so central.