The Malazan Fallen discussion

Spoilers up to chapter Twelve are ok.
Please mark any other spoilers using the spoiler tags. (when in doubt, use them).

Intersting to learn that Duiker couldn't even read or write when Kellanved appointed him as Imperial historian.
He was taught by Toc the Elder and later by Toc the younger.

Emperor, I cannot read or write.’
‘An unsullied mind. Good. Toc the Elder will be teaching you over the next six months –he’s another soldier with a brain. Six months, mind. No more than that.’


And Coltaine sends out a hit squad to go hunt down a new warrior who is giving him trouble. Turns out he's a Semk, possessed by a rogue spirit who went crazy after eating the Semk Ascendant from the last chapter. As Sormo explains...

‘The Semk god was indeed destroyed. Torn to pieces and devoured. Sometimes, a piece of flesh can contain such malevolence that it corrupts the devourer—’
Duiker sat forward, wincing at the pain from the force-healed wound in his backside. ‘An earth spirit—’
‘A spirit of the land, aye. Hidden ambition and sudden power. The other spirits... suspected naught.’

The malazan hit squad got some unexpected help from a Claw - Pearl as we learn later in the chapter - ducking out of the Imperial warren for some R & R.

And Apt and his rider show up and finish of the Semk and the rogue spirit within. Seeings the Semk's mouth and asshole are stitched up - it appears the only way out for the spirit is straight through the stomach.


Heboric, Felisin and Kulp find shelter beneath an ancient ruin.

It appears that the inhabitants, calling themselves The First Empire, were obsessed with becoming soletaken as an alternative to ascension

‘Her daughter chose the Path of the Soletaken, a fraught journey, that. She was hardly unique, the twisted route was a popular alternative to Ascension. More ... earthly, they claimed. And older, and that which was old was in high favour in the last days of the First Empire.’

They inadvertantly went to far and opened a gate that unleashed powers that turned thousands into soletaken, but also sent them insane. The T'lan Imass showed up to shut things down. For some reason they have an affinity for soletaken and divers

There is a bond between the T’lan Imass and Soletaken and D’ivers, a mysterious kinship that was unsuspected by the dwellers of this city...

"Yet what drew them here was the ritual, and the need to set things right.’


We also learn that the Undead dragon in the previous chapter was actually an T'lan Imass bonecaster

That Soletaken dragon we followed ... it was undead.’
‘It was T’lan Imass,’ the ex-priest elaborated. ‘A Bonecaster. Perhaps it is the old gate’s custodian, drawn once again in answer to an impending calamity.


And now we have again an opening gate - a convergence of soletaken - will we perhaps see the T'lan Imass coming to set things right again? I can't remember exactly.


And Fiddler Icarium Mappo and Crokus are still in hot pursuit of Apsalar and Servant - Fiddler is already considering what possible role he might play if Apsalar assumes the role of Sha'ik.

She’ll need the right people around her . . .
Fiddler scowled to himself. He’d already taken it as given that the lass would assume the guise, twined to the central thread of this goddess-woven tapestry. And here we are, racing through the Whirlwind . . . to arrive in time to witness the prophetic rebirth.

How convenient. Couldn't have been planned by Shadowthrone right?


And we know that the Empress is aware that Kalam's coming after her. Pearl is her answer to that threat it seems. As he tells Lostara

The Empress agrees that Kalam’s journey suggests ... personal risks to her person, and so must take ultimate precedence.

So I guess I'll go first in here. I really love the Kalam story-line.

I was a bit confused at the end. So the Claw and the Red Guard who have been tracking Kalam pause in their pursuit to help in the battle, and the mystery backup is revealed.

But, did the Demon who had been following Kalam pop out and help them defeat the possessed sorcerer? It seemed as though she had taken to Kalam and was following to catch up/help him.

Maybe that's a bad assumption on my part, because then why would she help the people pursuing him.

Rob wrote: "But, did the Demon who had been following Kalam pop out and help them defeat the possessed sorcerer? It seemed as though she had taken to Kalam and was following to catch up/help him."

The demon was actually trailing Pearl as part of watching Kalam's back - that's how they end up in the same place on the battlefield. I'm not sure it killed the Semk spirit to help out - Apt was just there and the rogue spirit was an aberration that needed dealing with - so for a short time the demon and the claw had a common enemy. Maybe.

Thanks David. And your first post was totally not there when I started mine. I completely missed it. Lol.

I'm growing very fond of Apt!

An Imass soletaken! David, your summaries are terrific and help explain things so much. Also interesting to note that the Imass have a quibble with the title First Empire, since they precede it.

@Lori I know, right.

9,000 years? Pah, that's nothing to the T'lan Imass.

Lori wrote: "Also interesting to note that the Imass have a quibble with the title First Empire, since they precede it."


And we also learn there were four founding races

the four Founding Races: Jaghut, Forkrul Assail, Imass and K’Chain Che’Malle.


The other thing I missed the first read was that the T'lan Imass have some affinity with Raraku. Earlier in the book when Sormo tries to get into the spirit of the place he found himself in the Imass warren.

Also we have this quote from chapter eleven

If you seek the crumbled bones
of the T’lan Imass,
gather into one hand
the sands of Raraku


I'm also wondering now if Heboric and co have entered into Iskarel Pust's new temple from the bottom - I can't remember from the first read.

Traversing through the imperial warren doesn't seem much fun. Finding the pit with what seems like a piece of Icariums work was very interesting. Reading the timelines on the pit walls gave me something I had missed last read (view spoiler)[ this is Kallors world, Jacakuru, after it was burnt to ashes (hide spoiler)]

@Lee (view spoiler)[ I was aware of this the first read - but I'm haveing trouble now reconciling this warren with the Jacaruku in "Blood and Bone" which was a lot...greener? (hide spoiler)]


The other thing I notice is that Icarium, being obsessed with time is a better fit for the current Deck of Dragons reading "Obelisk" - Obelisk represents "time" - past present future.

Keneb nodded. ‘We had a Seer pass through around that time – some of my squads chipped in for a reading, ended up getting their money back since the Seer couldn’t take the field past the first card – the Seer wasn’t surprised, I recall. Said that’d been the case for weeks, and not just for him, but for every other reader as well.’
Alas, that wasn’t my luck the last time I saw a Deck. ‘Which card?’
‘One of the Unaligned I think it was. Which are those?’
‘Orb, Throne, Sceptre, Obelisk—’
‘Obelisk! That’s the one. The Seer claimed it was Icarium’s doing, that he’d been seen with his Trell companion in Pan’potsun.’
‘Does any of this matter?’ Minala demanded.
Obelisk . . . past, present, future. Time, and time has no allies ... ‘Probably not,’ the assassin replied.

Of course Kalam's lying because he had a reading earlier at the Malazan keep - and the first card was "Obelisk"

Icarium could be described as an Avatar of sorts of time so this is probably cueing us that he will be central to the events unfolding.

Obelisk, which every Seer worth his salt knows is not active on the Seven Cities continent. Until now.

Chaz wrote: "Obelisk, which every Seer worth his salt knows is not active on the Seven Cities continent. Until now."

Ha Ha. Exactly. I now understand why the reader at the keep throws the cards at Kalam. She wasn't just angry at Kalam - she just couldn't get the cards to say anything else - like "OBELISK AGAIN!"

Is reading Orb Scepter Throne helpful to understanding Obelisk?

I'm looking forward to catching on to more understanding of Icarium this read. (view spoiler)[I was quite confused when he got caught in that ruin, can't remember specifically. (hide spoiler)]

These discussions are all so helpful! I catch stuff, like the Obelisk, Icarium and time, but don't make all the connections. Also the Imass within Raraku. I really don't remember much to do with the Imass and the First EMpire.

I too thought that Heboric and co might be at the bottom of the temple. It's nice that I remember enough to put pieces together that I missed first time around, but not enough to remember all the happenings. The first read is almost a blur of trying to soak in enough to make sense of it! And I remember some books better than others. Yet I didn't think I remembered this one so well, yet on rereading it I find I do quite well. So altho I can't anticipate much of the action, upon reading it it's instant. It's wonderful!

@DavidSven Can you remember, did Obelisk represent Rake in GotM? We're on a wholly different place amongst a very different set of events with a very different set of primary players so I shouldn't think it represents here what it did in Daurjhistan a year ago.

Lori wrote: "Is reading Orb Scepter Throne helpful to understanding Obelisk?"

No. At least not on my first read. Maybe when I reread it one day?

Chaz wrote: "@DavidSven Can you remember, did Obelisk represent Rake in GotM?"

No. Obelisk is only mentioned in one of the poems last book - and Krull mentions that his aspect was Obilisk

Ok - you and Lori have prodded my noggin now so lets lay out what we know so far about Obelisk.

Firstly Obelisk represents time(past present future) - so it is an aspect rather than an individual person. Though according to the glossary it also represents "Burn" - which makes sense as Burn - also referred to in the Glossary as "The Sleeping Goddess" is how time is measured - for example this book starts on the 1163rd Year of Burn’s Sleep

I defer to Iskarel Pust's wisdom here (Is this a good thing to do?)

‘Obelisk!’ Iskaral squealed, shifting nervously on his chair. ‘I knew it! Past present future, the here, the now, the then, the when—’


So we know Icarium is obsessed with time - so it's a safe bet that the Obelisk is his aspect as well. And so the Seers all over the continent are saying according to Keneb

‘Obelisk! That’s the one. The Seer claimed it was Icarium’s doing, that he’d been seen with his Trell companion in Pan’potsun.’

Note they don't say Obelisk IS Icarium - they say it has become active BECAUSE of Icarium - probably too fine a distinction but I think it's important in understanding Obelisk as an aspect rather than a person.


So now when Iskarel Pust loses the plot and goes off his nut at Icarium - it seems the High Priest's frustration is somewhat justified.

‘It’s right here in front of you, idiot! As clear as my Lord of Shadow could make it! How have you survived this long?’ In his frenzy, the High Priest snatched at the wispy patches of hair that remained on his head, yanking the tufts this way and that. He was fairly hopping in place. ‘Obelisk! Can’t you see? Mason, Spinner, Sceptre, Queens and Knights, Kings and fools!’




*****************************************************


Ok, I'm going to refer back to the first book now

In Chapter 5 we get this poem

....The child gazes upon a lone card
named Obelisk, the stone grey
she can feel its roughness in her mind.
Obelisk stands buried in a grassy knoll
like a knuckle protruded
from the earth, past and future.
This child's eyes are wide
with terror, for cracks have appeared
in the stone of stones and she knows
the shattering is begun.

Does this mean time itself is threatened to unravel?


Now Burn is the Sleeping Goddess deep down in the earth - interesting that the Obelisk is shown as a rock embedded in the earth.
So I think this poem may refer to this

Raest drove his senses down into the ground, seeking what dwelt there. Earth and bedrock, the sluggish molten darkness beneath, down, down to find the sleeping goddess – young as far as the Jaghut Tyrant was concerned. 'Shall I wake you?' he whispered. 'Not yet. But I shall make you bleed.' His right hand closed into a fist.
He speared the goddess with pain, driving a fissure through the bedrock, feeling the gush of her blood, enough to make her stir but not awaken.


So Raest wounds the Sleeping Goddess - is time itself now threatened?


And for some rereader brainstorming (view spoiler)[ And the Nameless ones - they work to protect Burn right - from memory? We know Icarium damaged an Azath - which is associated with Burn as well - growing out of the rock/earth - where time is held in stasis inside - (hide spoiler)]

Ah, so Burn is an aspect of Obelisk, and she's bleeding now, no wonder that card keeps turning up! Combined with Icarium, who remembers no past but carries it around, involved in the Convergence, time is, indeed, fucked!

David is our resident Deck reader. Great stuff.

(view spoiler)[remind me of Icarium and the Azath of Burn (hide spoiler)]

Lori wrote: "Ah, so Burn is an aspect of Obelisk,"

To be picky, Obelisk is an aspect of Burn, also an aspect of Icarium - and WAS also of K'rul. I think it's appearance is more to do with Icarium specifically at the moment. although(view spoiler)[ they may all be linked somehow (hide spoiler)]


(view spoiler)[ actually I'm getting mixed up - the Nameless ones worship the Azath - my bad. I'm not sure if there is a relationship between the Azath and Burn - I'm only basing that on the Azath growing out of the rock and some vague memory(have to pay attention this reread). But we learn later that Icarium tried to free Gothos(his father) from an Azath house creating a lot of damage and damaged his own memories in the process. So that partly explains the Nameless one's interest in Icarium (hide spoiler)]

(view spoiler)[ ahh, so that's when Icarium damaged his memory?!?! Can't wait to get clear on him this time around. As for Burn, she's another I'm keeping intent look out for. Even the Azaths remain somewhat a mystery at this point, altho FoD cleared up some stuff. (hide spoiler)]

That's it, K'rul. I knew there was some Obelisk action in GotM. That Obelisk in the ch5 poem of GotM also represented an actual physical marker in the now for where to find the Jaghut's tomb which was in the past through a Warren.

@Chaz - Exactly right. That's why it's important not to get too hung up on the Obelisk being any one person - but rather as having the aspect (nature/property) of Time, past and present. It can apply to different persons or situations depending on the context it's used and sometimes it can have multiple layers of meaning.

So in that poem (which was at the beginning of book 5 of GOTM not ch5 - my bad again) we might say it could be representing Burn being wounded. It might also represent the past coming back ie the Jaghut Tyrant - It might signify a barrow locked in time being broken open - or it might be all three at once.

I love this stuff!!!


For first time readers - this is getting deeper into the intricate detailed worldbuilding and subthemes, but it's not really necessary to fully understand right now to follow the plot. Most of it went way over my head the first time and a lot of stuff you get caught up on later anyway - but then again I may have appreciated it if someone pointed out some of the sights while I was reading.

Have we got any first-timers left? It seems like only Rob is still here in the comments.

We lost Hanna!

Hanna's a bit busy with her Robin Hobb group and other reading. I think she's still reading this though.

I think that we have some other people falling behind already. We're only on book 2, and they get a bit longer as we go on. I'm starting to worry I'll be the only one before too long.

I think Hanne is in catch up mode.

It's probably rough on first timers just reading four chapters a week. A lot may want to just spur ahead - while the re readers are probably here to smell the roses...or sand...or burning corpses...that aren't quite corpses yet.

I'm enjoying the pace as is.

Mmmmmm. Those burning corpses sure do warm the cockles of your heart don't they?

Jeez Hanna is also reading Robin Hobb? Bad idea to try to read that and this, both are so good and obsessive. I couldn't scatter myself between the 2, they both invite utter involvement. Rereading now I can read other things, although I'm extremely choosy, couldn't read anything else last time. I think I only took 2 very short breaks.

Rob so glad you're here! I wonder of we're reading too fast for the other newbies? It is dense and intense.

However I am loving this, you are all bringing such great observations to the table thank you.

I've found switching to reading only one chapter a night has helped tremendously.

Though I'm not exactly participating, I do love all the observations you guys make from the books. I can't really join you, since I'm only at book 7, which is too early for a re-read. But I do appreciate the comments from you Rob!

There you go, there are plenty of people who will be still benefiting from these discussions.
It is the same as when I read this series in a group read on epic fantasy, there was a core group for the majority of the read that stayed the course and did all the commenting. Then there was a group of people who read behind and used the threads to answer the questions.

Right then, time to post some new threads.

Normally Sunday is my reading day and I can get a large chunk of the week's reading in. Not today however, so I'll be getting to it when I can. Looking forward to spending some more time on the Chain of Dogs though.

Lori wrote: "We lost Hanna!"

Nono! No worries. Hanne is just a bit behind!
Reading Hobb, Malazan and a few other things at the same time, and unfortunately i cannot read 5 books simultaneously like David. So started Deadhouse gates two weeks late. About to read chapter 8 right now. hopefully by next week i've all catched up!

(first time reader here) I'm still checking in regularly to read what you're all posting and it helps a lot.

The problem for me has been the opposite of what I guess some others have... I couldn't keep the pace of the group because I CANT WAIT to read on through the series. So I'm about half through Memories of Ice now... ;>

I read a lot, lot, and pretty fast. I planned on keeping the pace throughout and just reading other things when I was done with the weekly readings. But I found myself reading other things and wishing I was continuing the Malazan journey, so I decided to forge ahead of the group pace.

All that said, I do want to be involved in the discussions through the end and I'm going back to re-read passages that are being discussed and want to get into those discussions more.

Cheers!

Hi there,

Another first time reader here, although also slightly ahead of schedule right now. I've just finished Memories of Ice, so am taking a bit of a break before starting book 4 to wait for you guys to catch up.

I'm finding the discussions informative as I apparently missed a lot when reading the first 2 books.

So while i might not participate a lot, I'll certainly be reading everything you guys post here!

Cheers!

I am currently reading blood and bones and lent gardens of the moon to a friend so couldn't take part in the re-read , but I am reading all the comments and enjoying realising all the things I missed first time around !

Look at all these lurkers coming out of the woodwork. I wonder which Ascendants they are serving?

...I'm still lurking in the shadows and popping out for some occasional sun. :)

Yay! *waves to the first-timers* If this was my first read, I wouldn't have done anything else but gobble it up.

Rob wrote: "Look at all these lurkers coming out of the woodwork. I wonder which Ascendants they are serving?"

Has to be Shadowthrone if they are lurking in the Shadows.

Hi David Mark Stephen! Kat, I already knew you were there but Hi!

Who knows they could be Obelisk Obelisk Obelisk which is rising!

lol

A detail caught my eye about the Imperial Warren. It's perpetually dusk in there, and the light seems to come from nowhere, so that there are no shadows. No shadows, that can't be a coincidence since Shadowthrone has a vendetta on Laseen.

@Duffy - That's a good observation. I'm not sure how relevant it is to Shadowthrone but we'll see

Lee wrote: "Traversing through the imperial warren doesn't seem much fun. Finding the pit with what seems like a piece of Icariums work was very interesting. Reading the timelines on the pit walls gave me some..."

It definitely doesn't. In book one it seemed to be quite fun - even though you have to remember you don't end up in the stables but might enter in Laseen's office.
Here it looked like the journey from hell. But then there is the remark that Kalam's mind is wandering, and that makes the path less clear. Seems like traveling through Warrens need very sharp focus

"Our assassin's mind wanders, and so therefore does his path"

Yes that was interesting. Once he became focused they could leave the warren. It would be easy to get caught up in there and not escape it i would imagine. Time goes differently in a warren, but I wonder if you'd die of thirst?

Another first time reader here still as well...just in catch up mode, had to put it aside for a bit due to other obligations, but I should be caught up over the next week with where you are in Memories of Ice. And yes, I am enjoying the discussions and insights as I finish each chapter :)

Glad you are enjoying the group Linette. Welcome.

Since I'm only now halfway through the book, thought I'd post as the laggard at the back! GotM was a reread for me but this is my first read of DG. Am really enjoying it and have found the observations in these threads really useful, thanks!