Lois McMaster Bujold Fans discussion

It's interesting that Cazaril attributes a lot of events in his life (going back to the opening events of the book and even earlier) to the manipulations of the gods. But at other times (avoiding spoilers!) he acknowledges how little power they have to make things happen in the "real" world.

How much do they actually do?

Interesting question. I'm going to have to think about it.
It seems almost contradictory -- on the one hand the gods can only work through people, but on the other Caz believes that they have been guiding his steps for a long time.... Has he unconsciously been open to them?

I think it is not that contradictory. Gods give hints and nudges. It depends on people to understand them and accept them. Their choice of action will decide whether these nudges will result in by gods desired outcomes. So it is up to people, not gods. Except in cases when one totally opens and offers oneself to gods, in which cases they have a gateway for immediate and substantial impact on the world of humans. That's the way I see it.

It seems almost chaotic--a butterfly effect--the gods are parsimonious...they can't lift a pebble...weak in the world of matter...

They can only work through the natural inclinations of people - so it is only those who are "destined" by their nature to be extremely open to the gods who become saints.

I suppose the workings of the curse are similar... maybe it only causes things to go bad that have the potential for negativity. So Orico's lack of strong will becomes a lot more damaging because of the curse. But Cazaril's willingness to go to great lengths for Iselle becomes something much more because of his openness to the gods.

It is funny, how I thought in a very similar direction about religion here and now, some years ago. That our disbelief, suspicion, whatever, banishes the God out of this world.
By his previous life of a soldier, Caz does not seem overly predestined to be a saint. But in great despair, everybody might get open that way. At the point where nothing is left to loose. Although, there has to be some special quality that enables it, otherwise there would be many more god-touched, in Chalion and elsewhere...

I suppose the average soldier might not have very saintly qualities - the average soldier having a streightforward kind of mind, good at following orders, very grounded in reality... but I don't think Caz was ever an average soldier. It seems like he has always been a different kind of guy, with integrity above and beyond the average. His integrity and devotion to duty and being in the right place at the right time I would think are factors that led to him being "used" by the gods.

Kiri wrote: "...that led to him being "used" by the gods..."

how about "saddled" or "harnessed" ... maybe "roped" *poke*
LOL

sorry, being silly....

I am reading Autobiography of a Yogi by Paramahansa Yogananda and he describes a similar phenomenon in which the yogi would open himself up to god and allow gods love and power (or something) to flow through him which would allow miracles to happen. It's difficult to describe, but reminds me of the saints in Chalion.

very interesting....