Lois McMaster Bujold Fans discussion

Tammy Nott suggests in her compiled notes ( http://www.dendarii.com/reviews/tammy... ) that mules/donkeys might be a metaphor for Cazaril in the story.

This idea caught my fancy for some reason.

What do you all think?

Interesting. Qualitites that mules have - hard working, not fast but great endurance, half-breed (horse/donkey), not as pretty as a horse but more useful?

Caz is certainly hard working and is not a high-strung thoroughbred... he has endurance and reliability.

They are also obedient, humble and of low-maintainance. As well as under-appreciated.

...and Caz is, quite literally, a beast of burden throughout much of the story....

Vorlady wrote: "...and Caz is, quite literally, a beast of burden throughout much of the story...."

He recognizes that he is using Palli to carry his confidences...

Is he also sterile? Is this why the romance with Betriz doesn't ring quite true?

No textev or hint about that, as far as I remember. His romance with Betriz does not kling true to me because we never witness any talking and gigling about him between Betriz and Iselle, which is simply not normal in that age. They just fall in love without much ado, and I miss the ado :)

Lynda wrote: "Is he also sterile? Is this why the romance with Betriz doesn't ring quite true? "

as vorbore mentioned we don't know from the text that this is true, but we do know that as a result of Caz's illness he had been impotent for an extended period of time....

I get the impression that Beatriz is a mature for her age young lady. I don't think we would be privy to much in the way of private conversations regarding Caz between Iselle and Beatriz because the story is told from Caz's perspective. If he didn't overhear or learn of a conversation we wouldn't know about it...

Wow, interesting taking the mule metaphor to that point... I guess we won't find out if Cazaril and Betriz ever have children!

that's the greatest thing about our book discussion group -- so many ideas so many perspectives :-) Loads of "fodder" for discussion and ideas to "chew" on.... *grin*

But why would Caz ever be sterile? Orico and Sara were sterile because of the Curse, but Caz was not under the Curse. Perhaps because of his "incapsulation", but that is also farfetched. Do we have any textev that the god-touched are sterile? Now I wish I have Challion on my computer, as I do Vorkosigan books, makes searching much easier :D

Anyways, the dysfunctionality he suffers from on the beggining of the book could easily be a normal consequence of phisical overstraining on the galley. And he told us himself, very soon after arriving in Baocia, that this particular aspect was getting evidently :) better.

vorbore wrote: "But why would Caz ever be sterile?"

I think the idea arose because Mules are generally sterile.

I looked it up and it turns out they aren't all sterile, there are a few examples of female mules having offspring. All males seem to be sterile though.

Mules are hybrids as well. Would the hybrid concept apply to Caz I wonder?

All that I can think of, in this moment, is that he is a hybrid in a sense of being a saint of a god - he is definitely a saint of both the Daughter and the Bastard. But he was chosen for a mule before that happened.

I still think that the metaphor of a mule refers only to their endurance and obedience. One that can and will pull a heavy load :)

Oooohh, hybrid in the sense of being a saint of two gods. I like that!

Also the "muleness" of the dysfunctionality/impotence because of his recovery...

:-D

Mules are ideal for work - which implies someone they are working for; clearly in Caz' case that is the gods, not to mention Iselle, Orico... practically everyone around him! Ha ha. Mules also seem to be creatures that have been deliberately bred; like breeds of dogs with specific characteristics. Does this imply that Caz was planned somehow? He wonders about that, about how far back in his life he was being somehow guided...

Oh, you mean that gods are refugees from Cetaganda?

sorry, now I am having an attack of silliness :)

Kiri wrote: "Mules also seem to be creatures that have been deliberately bred; like breeds of dogs with specific characteristics. Does this imply that Caz was planned somehow? He wonders about that, about how far back in his life he was being somehow guided...."

this is interesting ... hmmmm
makes you think....