Authors Helping Authors discussion

I have been approached by many marketing companies wanting to promote my book. The last one that approached me was Book World. I used to be the national director of marketing for a company so I have worked with different promotion companies. I am out of my league here because I used to work in food and knew pretty much all the companies in that area. Have any of you paid for marketing services? I'd love to have some thoughts.

I've tried several paid marketing approaches and every one has been money down the drain. I marked it off to education. The only thing that's worked for me are my own personal marketing efforts with my blog, Twitter and joining with other indie authors to cross promote each others' books. If you have money to spend, spend it on professional editing and proofreading services. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!

So funny that you mention this. I just completed a virtual book tour that I paid for with Bewitching Book Tours. They have a great reputation, reasonable prices, and it seemed like a great idea. Now, this is not a knock to all paid services, because I even offer a few of my own, and I see where things went wrong with this tour, but this was nothing like what I expected. They make the claim that sales will soar with one of their tours-not a single sale from them, yet I get to give away more copies of my hard work. Im' not a huge fan of giveaways, even though folks claim they really do wonders. I can't even get a dang review from them. But the tour was a cluster flop. One of the blogs that promised a review and interview downgraded to review before the tour started, then the day of the tour stop, it was just a promo. Promos are great, they let people see your book, but that's about it. Another reviewer didn't post teh review until sometime after 8pm, and yet another post didn't go up till after 6pm. I wrote three or four guest posts, did one interview, and in the end got one review. Don't get me wrong, it was a good review, but of course it's only on their blog, they didn't put it on Amazon or anywhere else. Oh, and all these high traffic sites seemed to get about five visitors combined. I swear, there were only a couple of comments on the 11 different stops, and at least one was a friend of mine. Such a flop! I'm very glad I didn't pay more for this. Again, I have to stress, not every experience will be like this, and I can't fully blame the tour company if nobody would visit the site. But I know things now that I wouldn't have known had I not paid for the tour, so like Gary, I consider it a learning experience.

Lena wrote: "I have been approached by many marketing companies wanting to promote my book. The last one that approached me was Book World. I used to be the national director of marketing for a company so I hav..."

Book World is one of those spam services where you pay them to shoot out hundreds of identical emails to people who are not interested, so I think it is a waste of money. I agree with Gary that a personal marketing approach is slower but better if you are looking to build a base for the future. I have two web sites, Twitter and Facebook pages, give away books, ask for reviews, etc. Obviously it's a tough road but more rewarding.

I read a blog about guerrilla marketing the other day. That being book on demand, print a few add some stickers with you info and review sites and just walk into book stores, independent, and ask if you can leave it there. I thought about this and think this can be moved up a notch ie to libraries and bars. If your going to give your book away why not try local first and hope for a ripple effect. People are far more likely to help you if you have something in common. Location, Twitter, this group etc. Plus the way I look at it I get to go on a pub crawl in London. So the day will not be entirely without merit when I finally take the leap!

Our local non-chain bookstore in Lawrence, The Raven, is incredibly welcoming and supportive to local authors. I suspect local shops in other towns would be as well.

Dianne, there should be no reason why in a month or so when the group has evolved sufficiently that a blog tour could not be arranged here for free. There are plenty of people here who have blogs already. Maybe a thought for the future. So lets all save our money and get a few more folks here then we can sort it out.

Marketing is like anything else "an art" If we are going to perfect our writing, editing, and proofing, we may as well learn the ins and outs of marketing. Doing so as a group, as Ian said, seems to be a logical approach :)

Hi, I'm not sure if I'm on the right thread with this, but I need some advice. I've just posted my first event on GR - two free download days for my novel. I set the invite level to automatically invite all my GR friends but the system has only connected with about half. My friend list is fairly short anyway (I'm a relative newbie on GR) so numbers are important to me. Any thoughts on this please? Thanks for your help.

I am about to do a blog tour starting Monday March 11th and ending March 15th. I will let you all know how that goes. If you are interested in seeing a blog tour as it progresses go to www.toddthiede.com and check out the sites I will be on.

I will post as it goes.

Todd

This group and thread is such a great idea! To those that posted about paid marketing services, thank you for posting your experiences!

I've been told that if you don't have a budget, the best way to go about marketing yourself is to start a blog (talk about things you're interested in because it gives people a sample of your writing), use twitter, and make a facebook fan page.

I've just started out. I'll post any tips and tricks if this method starts working. If it doesn't? I suppose I'll post about that too!

I've never participated in a blog tour. I'm going to have to read about them.

I started a website/blog last year as a foundation for my own books and found out I really enjoyed bridging readers with authors. I've met the most amazing people and interviewed incredible people. I've just learned that my name and website is going to be in the praise/dedication page of a second book! The reason I say this is because if you make it about yourself...people are going to get tired of looking at your site. Find things other people need and want to read about...and in the mix they will learn to respect you as a writer as well. Cheers, Michala

www.bitemybook.com

Michala wrote: "I started a website/blog last year as a foundation for my own books and found out I really enjoyed bridging readers with authors. I've met the most amazing people and interviewed incredible people...."

This is very good advice.

Dianne wrote: "Had the same problem. You can only do a certain percent per day. I'm still inviting every day."

I found the answer to the technical side of this one. I logged off and logged on again. The auto invites worked first time. Problem solved. If only all author problems were solved as easily!

I wonder, what's the best way to approach a blogger? I have sent out many emails but rarely receive any responses.Is there a list of children's book blogs?

For children's books you should get involved with the parenting websites and communities. It's parents that buy books. Do you have print editions? If so donate some to your local libraries? Maybe even do some reading sessions?

I just published this year and have received so many marketing and promoting offers, but have trusted my instincts and listened to my fellow author friends. I have also read a lot of books on marketing and promoting from writers market. It made a world of a difference. My sales have been really slow, but Dual Karma is only my first paperback. I couldn't believe how many people there were out there trying to take advantage of a new author. This is what I have done so far.
First, I made an author page on my Facebook. Then I made my main character a Facebook page (Cadence Maxwell. From there I signed up with Goodreads and paid for expanded distribution, signed up with Kindle, and ACX (Amazon audio books) to get as many versions of my book out there. From there I signed up with as many social networks as I could think of that would let me promote and market my book (Some of them were not so welcoming? Promocave found me, but I am not having much luck with them. From there I went to Vistaprint and printed out my own business cards to help me spread the word about my book. I also got some address labels with that order. I didn't stop there though. I needed my own website, advice from a book I read. I created my own website from wix.com for free. Well, I upgraded it to buy my own domain name. Best investment I could have made for my book. I have no limitations on my own site. Sales are still slow, but at least I have the word out there. I started an ad here on goodreads and every now and again I change the ad up.
My newest marketing and promoting things I did was sign all three of titles up for Nook. It's only been one week with them and already I got a sale for Dual Karma. It was also a good way to get my Kindle version e-books to Barnes and Noble. I also signed up for another site. Free or Paid. I got the Silver plan and love it. This on authorden. I also made a new Facebook page called The Talent Page where I am wanting connect with authors, artists, readers, musicians, or anyone that loves any of those things.
Here are my links:
Facebook (there are four)
https://www.facebook.com/jessica.rist...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jessic...
https://www.facebook.com/CadenceMaxwe...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Ta...
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/jessica_rister
Myspace:
http://www.myspace.com/jessicacaporale
Promocave:
http://www.promocave.com/Edit-My-Prof...
My Official Author Page
http://www.jessicaristerauthor.com/#
Authorsden:
http://www.authorsden.com/jessicarister

Dianne,
The audio was a really long process. I am still in the process of getting Dual Karma's audiobook done. Precious' is done, but no sales, but at least it's out there.
Everyone,
If you go to any my links let me know and I will like and follow any page.

Either. I had someone do it for me.

Dianne,
What are your websites and I'll like your links too,

Dianne,
I didn't see on the Facebook pages and I can't tell on the rest of them.

Ok :) Facebook can be weird

I haven't been able to find any "bulk" author cross promotion assistance. If anyone else is interested in something beyond the one on one contacts, please take a look at my post here: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1....

After some private feedback, I put a test group up here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/indie...

Let me know what you think.

I'd say all we need is another 25 or so authors willing to give it a shot. Let's just keep working on signing people up! :) Thanks!

Sign me up
dcrushbooks.com

I'm heading to your FB page now

I tried to log in with my Book (Robby's Quest) FB page but it won't work for me.

Want to hear something funny. Well, not actually funny as mush as it is ridiculous. Considering I've put in at least 6 hours a day this month trying to self-market our books and we have sold only 1 eBook and only one prime Member borrowed a book, we have earned almost $2.00 this month in royalties. $2.00 divided by 120 hours = $.0167 or less than two cents per hour. I'm about done trying.

This isn't counting the money I stuck into the books this month. New website and SEO promotion from Go Daddy, book reviewer, illustrations for the third book, new covers, paid to add text on covers and gave away several paperbacks. I also gave away a couple hundred eBooks this month. Not one thank you, not one review. I'm at the end of my rope. I tried, wasn't meant to be.

Try an agent or sending your next book to a Children's big time publisher.

I've tried sending the books to a publisher and agents. They won't give me the time of day. Most of the Blog's I've contacted won't respond either. I get it, everyone is busy promoting their own thing.

Never mind me complaining, you just keep doing what you are doing. I have some decisions to make.

You know what the definition of insanity is - keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. That's where I'm at.

I'm probably just going to keep the eBooks at Amazon and 86 the paperbacks. Also, I will not illustrate the first book. There is no point in spending any more money when nobody has seen the books anyway. Adding color illustrations to the paperback raises the manufacturing cost considerably and since children want color pictures and parents won't pay the higher price, why bother with paperbacks at all.

Our illustrator is creating two more pictures for the third book. Once that is finished, I'm not spending any more money.

Have you ever thought of switching genres? That way all you have to do pay for the cover. I would buy your books for my own daughter. Actually, I am planning on getting them this coming Monday through Amazon.

I don't follow you. They are written for children, maybe 3rd grade and under. How can I change that?

No, I mean change what you write about. Have you ever thought about writing for adults? I use to write horror, unpublished and lost pieces :(, before I switched to Dark Fantasy. I thrived in that genre because there was no rules. I could be free with my writing and reach a very large audience. I wanted to write a horror piece to send to TOR , actually that was how Children got written, I game up with a poem. The one I sent them was high fantasy. Inspiration comes from places that we don't even know about.
I know Children's books is a tough market that's why I asked. I almost tried it with Precious, but it was still coming off as too mature for my audience.
A journal might help.

There are times when a good children's book is also a good adult book :)

I think it takes a talented person to write for adults. I really don't have the skills or the patience to write a novel. I never expected to make much money at this however I was hoping to at least cover expenses. It's nobody's fault, I just can't get our books in front of the children.

It's a long process, Cathy, and I think most of us can tell you hardly anyone says thank you or leaves a review for the freebies unless they're personal friends of yours already. Until the book is making money, rely on your friends and family to get at least your Amazon reviews going. Just flat out ask them.

On your other comment, you can't join a group as a page. You have to be a person ;) And that group is up over 9000 contacts already. I'm sure a number those people have children :) Hopefully you can help us out too.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/indie...

I understand. I feel like I'm running out of marketing options myself, but I also feel like it's only the beginning and that my future books will push out the other ones.
I'm not very experienced just yet, but maybe a reading at a local library or bookstore might help.

I feel your pain Cathy, apart from producing a great work by writing/revising/editing/rewriting etc, getting a great cover done and then marketing hits you. It is getting the ball rolling that seems the hardest. Yet people have done it and continue to.

Here's an idea that hit me the other night, it may well not work, but I am going to give it a go when I publish later this year.

And yes all my marketing ideas do revolve around having a beer afterwards.

Firstly look at your market and mine is split in two. Firstly I have fantasy and the other I described the other day as "Antediluvian, Urban Fantasy, Vampire, Erotic, Romance Fiction". I think that is too long and maybe a tad vague :) So i'll look at the Fantasy.

Now I am not stereotyping anyone here but I live in London and in that town there are on any given night countless plays/ concerts on. Say Roger Walters was playing at Earls Court (I might be going ssshhh). Surely the percentage of Fantasy readers in that crowd will be higher than down the road in Camden where "I'm gonna murder ya mother and eat your Dad" are playing their debut gig.

I get handed A3 Flyers every time I darken a venues doors and deposit it in the bin after an annoying few moments once inside. If it were business card size then maybe it would end up in my pocket. Some flyers still make their way home after all.

So my card would have me on one side; ie blurb/logo and an amazon link on the other with a concession code. Business cards are cheap as chips per the 500.

The show is full by eight and then guess where I will go; a nice chinese in Soho or a pizza in Leicester square? I'll let my wife decide....

Again I enjoyed my promotion and if it fails to get at least one download from a stoner eating dry crackers at midnight that night. Well the quality of dope has fallen!

What you think?

Ian,
I think you have a very good point. I printed with Vista print. Around 500 of the ones with my author page on it and another 250 with my createspace on them. While, I believe this was a good investment I struggle to find people to give them to.
I too share the same love for fantasy as you. Actually, I write it too.

I'm doing bookmarks instead of business cards. My friend pointed out that readers are more likely to carry around bookmarks than business cards. Plus, I think it's easier to give a bookmark. It's something they can use,something of value, instead of a card that doesn't affect them.

I think whatever you use, it's hard to give away. Finding ways to bring your books into meaningful conversation is probably a little more memorable to them than just handing them out. I know people that I run into at the library/store/ect. that I talk with, even in passing, I remember more about than those who just randomly hand me something. I think readers like to have a connection to the author. And if you can show interest in people, they usually show interest back which leads to your book coming up naturally in conversation. For me at least, easier. Someone asks what I do, tell them I'm an author. Then if they express an interest, it's easier to give them a book mark, especially if they're a reader.

I think this way, you're more likely to find people who would buy your type of book and get a better return for your time and money. Ian's idea of picking good places to hang out that have people more likely to be interested in your book there is a great place to start finding people to talk to.

I've had nice cards at Staples made. They are 4 x 6 heavy card stock. One side is my cover, and the other is the "hook" line, the synopsis, and links on the bottom to purchase, and my website. I also made a QR Code for those who prefer to scan and save for later.

I made these up on MS Word and printed the cover and then the text. Staples staff scanned them in their system and made up the card prototype for approval first. Then they printed and cut them for me.

250 for 70.00

Yes, I have bookmarks for the same reason. I started out with bookmarks, business cards and post cards. After getting rid of most of them, I asked for more, but just the bookmarks because they have a use.

Elizabeth wrote: "Yes, I have bookmarks for the same reason. I started out with bookmarks, business cards and post cards. After getting rid of most of them, I asked for more, but just the bookmarks because they have..."

Glad to know they've worked so well for you! I'm supposed to be getting mine late next week and I'm excited to see how they go.

As for pricing, since two of you have mentioned something along that vein, if you can, it really pays off to learn at least a little of a simple photo program. Gimp is free. It has a crop tool you could learn to use fairly easily. Once you have that, all you'd need to do is grab your cover and move it around a bit. Scale it bigger so you're only using a or potion, or smaller so the full cover fits with a matching plain background filled in for the rest of the bookmark. Perhaps add some text. I know it's really intimidating at first, but there's lots of free guides/videos that walk you through step by step. The more you play with them, the more comfortable you'll be and it will pay off in the long run.

As for printing, if you look around online, there are some great companies that can do it for very resonably. I only got 100 bookmarks to start with because I don't know how many I'll giveaway, but it only cost about $15. 250 was about $20. These were for nicer ones with rounded corners and heavier paper as well. Most of the companies will have you proof one at least once online for free.

On the subject of bookmarks, I ordered some from overnightprints.com, and I was very pleased with the quality/pricing. They had a template that you could download with the right dimensions. I ordered 50 for my book and 50 for my sister's. Also, they emailed an "up to 60% off" discount for signing up w/the site, but it had to be used within 7 days (which I did). With the percentage off plus shipping, I paid around $17 (shipping was as much as the bookmarks!!). The bookmarks were shipped out in a box with 2 large yellow envelopes inside (bubblewrap and all). So while the shipping could've definitely been reduced had the company been more cost-effective for the consumer, the quality was absolutely outstanding. I'll most likely use them again for future swag printing.

Thanks for sharing Nikki! I might look into that site. :)

I'm late to this discussion, but my friend and I recently started a blog regarding our indie experiences, what works, doesn't work, etc. There's a recent post regarding book blasts results. She tells how much she put into the blast and her results (in detail). It may be an interesting read for some of you guys.

http://yaconfessional.blogspot.com/20...

Cathy wrote: "I think it takes a talented person to write for adults. I really don't have the skills or the patience to write a novel. I never expected to make much money at this however I was hoping to at least..."

Have you thought about doing a reading at a library or mall and giving away a few copies as raffles to the attendees. Or do a reading at a school or children's hospital and send a press release to all the news stations.

I write YA fantasy/paranormal, but I just recently did a reading of Dr. Seuss at a Christian School for "Read Across America" Day. It wasn't my book that I read (that would not have been appropriate)but they ran an article in the newspaper and did a spot on the local news station. I was introduced as a local author and my book was mentioned. Free advertising and I got invited to read somewhere else.

You have to just keep reminding yourself that if one door closes...just jump off the porch and find an open window.

I also wanted to comment on the business card idea. I have bookmarks, postcards, and business cards that have the cover of my book on one side and info on the other. Now the business card is too small to hold much in the way of a hook, but what all of them do have are ISBN numbers for the hardcover/softcover/ebooks. I have been told that makes a difference to purchasers. I have delivered or mailed these to every grocery, mall, library, coffee house...well you get the idea. The bar owner might not be interested, but he might be married to the book purchaser for Costco or Target.

Hi,

I'm new to the group. I've written 3 books for Harlequin,but the promotion is hard if your not famous.

I'd like to join an author book team.

Dominique

If you write children's or YA books and they are already published, go to www.oure-books.com. It's a new children's website and is geared to help young reader's find books written just for them. Fill out the author order form and put in free offer from Goodreads. You will have to create a quiz for your book but they will promote it in their Contests. Again it's free to add your book. Just another resource to market your book and get it in front of the target audience. Any questions, feel free to IM me.