Green Group discussion

Why are they dying?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/02/opinion...

Jimmy wrote: "Why are they dying?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/02/opinion..."

Hi Jimmy - thanks for posting this. I find this to be so frightening and am wondering how much of a difference we can make in our own yards and gardens?

Saw this on the Organic Consumers Association's Facebook page today:

"Over the past seven years, the honeybee die-off, known as "colony collapse disorder" (CCD), has claimed 5,650,000 hives, valued at $1.61 billion. Italy, France, Slovenia and Germany have taken action to limit the use of bee-killing pesticides. But here in the U.S.? The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is getting ready to approve a deadly new neonicotinoid called Sulfoxaflor. Several environmental groups have filed a lawsuit against the EPA, claiming the agency has failed in its obligation to protect one of the Earth's most vital pollinators from dangerous pesticides."

I'm looking into replacing my lawn grass with native plants, perennnials, and shrubs. Anything that doesn't require pesticides or fertilizers to grow them.

I support local beekeepers and buy their honey.

The recent mass deaths are extremely scary. I'm not sure people realise the significance.

I found this book quite good: A World Without Bees and Michael Pollan also spoke about the changes to US farm land and the resulting loss of bee habitat, in: The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals

We are about to get bees for our organic farm. Not only will they aid our efforts, but we can help to support their numbers here. My husband's reading up, and is going for top bar hives. We are very excited, and are putting word out for swarms.

Good for you, Georgina.

Thank you, Jimmy. I'll keep you posted with our progress. :)

Great. Use this thread and keep us all posted.

Here is an article you might all enjoy - http://gardenrant.com/2013/04/wild-be...

Einstein quote was right on.

Will do! Thanks for the article link too, Jennifer. Bees for Trees sounds great.

Jennifer wrote: "Here is an article you might all enjoy - http://gardenrant.com/2013/04/wild-be..."

Thanks, Jennifer - I'll check it out this weekend.

Jennifer wrote: "Here is an article you might all enjoy - http://gardenrant.com/2013/04/wild-be..."

Had a chance to read it this morning. I'm with Jimmy - Einstein was right on!

Thanks for sharing.

Here's another essay. It shows the difficulty of science because it has to prove everything. That's not always easy. Sometimes I wish we'd act on the side of caution. Especially in a case like this.

Article in Time magazine on honeybees:

http://science.time.com/2013/05/07/be...

Interesting paragraph on the difference between Europe and the U.S.:

"As Brad Plumer pointed out over at the Washington Post, it’s not that the E.U. necessarily has more evidence about the role that the chemicals might be playing in CCD. This is a classic case of policymaking by the precautionary principle. The pesticides are considered guilty until proven innocent, and so they’re preventively banned, even before the scientific case is rock solid. That’s not unusual for European environmental regulation, especially in regards to chemicals. In the U.S.it’s the reverse—before the federal government is likely to take the step of banning a class of pesticides, and pissing off the multi-billion dollar chemical industry, you’re likely to see a lot more science done."

From the Guardian - "US honeybees threatened as 31% of colonies died out in 2012, report shows":

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment...

Interesting article on breeding bees to be hardier - http://www.npr.org/2013/05/12/1832665... -

I also love reading the comments of any article that includes the word "Darwinism" :)

Jennifer wrote: "Interesting article on breeding bees to be hardier - http://www.npr.org/2013/05/12/1832665... -

I also love reading the comments of..."

Hopefully it will work. And hope that in an effort to address one problem, they don't create another.

And loved the comments. People have quite the reaction to the words "Darwinism" and "evolution." :-)

We have large flower beds planted to attract hummingbirds, bees, and butterflies. Early this spring we had plenty of bees especially on the salvia and Mexican heather but as of a week ago, there are none, none at all. There are still some bumblebees but none of the dainty honeybees. It is a mystery to me. We have several large bottlebrush bushes which normally just hum with bees--nothing now. We are on the Texas Gulf Coast.

Florence wrote: "We have large flower beds planted to attract hummingbirds, bees, and butterflies. Early this spring we had plenty of bees especially on the salvia and Mexican heather but as of a week ago, there ar..."

That's sad and troubling. Please keep us posted if the honeybees show up.

Jimmy wrote: "Einstein quote was right on."

Einstein "got it" for sure, Jimmy! He understood so clearly that we are all connected. Should be a no-brainer, but...

I recently saw a bee inside a store where I was shopping. I was just opening my mouth to tell the cashier I'd help her catch it when she grabbed a swatter suddenly and whacked it when it landed. "I've been trying to kill that bee all day!" She said proudly. I can't tell you the horror I felt. I took a deep breath and gently told her why bees are so important. It didn't save that one, but hopefully she'll think twice the next time.

I believe in the idea of trying to make a small dent like that.

Good for you, Tanya--and kudos on talking to her gently. I feel that way about spiders, so I'd show students how to use a glass and piece of paper to capture and release them. At first they laughed--but I just kept doing it and some of them joined in. Jimmy's right--every small "dent" helps!

Julia wrote: "Good for you, Tanya--and kudos on talking to her gently. I feel that way about spiders, so I'd show students how to use a glass and piece of paper to capture and release them. At first they laughed..."

That's right! Good job, Julia!

An article in my Sunday paper here in NH suggested planting clover for honeybees. It's "nature's way of healing soil that is nitrogen-deficient." White clover was once a mainstay mixture for lawns.

"White Dutch clover (Trifolium repens) used to be common in lawns. It was brought here by the early settlers alonog with the honey bee, neither of which is native to this land. Once petrochemical-based weed killers were introduced and took hold after WWII, that common sight in NH began to change. Artificial weed and feed products got rid of the weeds, but they also killed the clover, and the bee had to find other places to get food. Clover came to be looked down upon as a lowly weed, and once marketing for these products assured consumers that clover and dandelions marred a lawn's uniformity and put children at risk by attracting bees, that was the end of clover in the lawn."

Now there is a new micro-clover that has been bred to grow smaller and mix in with the grass.

Other tips:

1. Plant fall-flowering crops, like fall crocus and snapdragon, as there are not so many flowers blooming at the end of the season.

2. Plant early spring flowers, like crocus, pussy willow, and marsh marigold. But not azaleas, forsythia, and lilac because these have no pollen.

3. Stop flower discrimination. Get the list of flowers and wild plants that bees like and plant those in your garden and your yard.

4. Buy local honey. Support organic farmers.

We are without bees in our yard for the first time ever. Over the years, we have planted flowers specifically for the bees and butterflies. But this year the bees and butterflies are just not here. Usually the bottlebrush bushes and salvia beds are just humming with bees. :((

Received this from SumofUs.org yesterday:

"Last month, 50,000 dead bees were discovered littering a parking lot in Oregon. Then last week, a shocking 37 million bees were reported dead across a single farm in Ontario."

Was there any mention of pesticide use?

Here's more:

https://action.sumofus.org/a/bees-neo...

Jimmy wrote: "Was there any mention of pesticide use?"

Absolutely. I'll cut and paste the rest:

"Last month, 50,000 dead bees were discovered littering a parking lot in Oregon. Then last week, a shocking 37 million bees were reported dead across a single farm in Ontario.

After years of research, scientists have finally figured out what’s causing the massive bee die-offs all around the world, from China to the UK: It’s a class of dangerous pesticides called neonics. And here’s the wildest thing -- even though we know they’re killing the bees, in most parts of the world, neonics are still in widespread use.

Independent American garden store owners are critical to the fight to stop neonics and save the bees. If you live in the US, your local garden store owner down the street probably sells neonics to your neighbors, who are in turn spraying them on their flowers and poisoning bees all around you. Collectively, these independent garden stores are the largest single group of commercial pesticide distributors in the world.

That’s why Bonide, one of the largest corporate producers of neonics, is spending a pile of cash to try to buy the trust of these small business people. This August, Bonide is sponsoring the largest gathering of independent garden store owners in the world: The Independent Garden Center Show in Chicago. Bonide’s name -- and their spin -- will be everywhere: From the conference program to the exhibit hall.

We can’t allow the pesticide industry to have the only voice there. So we came up with a crazy plan: We want to fly in activist beekeepers who’ve been watching their bees die for years, and buy them tickets to the conference. They’ll take their case directly to the garden center owners -- talking to them at their booths, distributing scientific research, holding press conferences and more. They’ll get the convention buzzing about the dangers of neonics, and convert garden center owners to the side of science, the bees, and our environment."

This issue is getting more attention in the last few weeks.

Not in the mainstream press, but in alternative sites, and even on FB.

Spread the word...especially about pesticide use.

Lynnm wrote: "This issue is getting more attention in the last few weeks.

Not in the mainstream press, but in alternative sites, and even on FB.

Spread the word...especially about pesticide use."

Will do!

It never ceases to amaze me that we poison our Earth and the other creatures so vital to the survival of ALL of us (since we're all interconnected after all) for the sake of greed. It's across the board -- it's on so many levels -- we "KNOW" what the problem is, but we refuse as a human race to do anything about it, honoring instead the almighty dollar. :-(

Tanya, I couldn't agree with you more. We seem to be determined to kill and destroy every living thing.

And Rachel Carson said all this in Silent Spring.

Ah, humans--when will we ever learn? Tanya is so right--greed has taken over so much in America. And our children and grandchildren will be paying the price for generations.

That's assuming there will still be "generations."

Jimmy wrote: "That's assuming there will still be "generations.""
That was my thought too, Jimmy. Global warming/climate change is a serious challenge to life on earth.

We are evolving. I think more damage is done through ignorance than malice. It would help if we stopped seeing ourselves as a cancer on the earth--as something separate from the life that exists around us. Self hate as a species isn't healthy. This calls for a massive change in human consciousness. I think it's coming. One way or another.

I think both Tanya and Little have good points.

Some people are greedy, and some people are doing things for material gain that are destroying the planet and our futures.

But as Little said, we are evolving, and most people aren't intentionally damaging the planet.

But unfortunately, I believe that most people stick their heads in the sand rather than face up to future problems. Psychologist have a name for it which I can't remember, but basically it says that the present is far more potent than the future. So, most people only see the here and now. They don't look to the past, and only look to a future that may better (i.e., tomorrow when I have more money, tomorrow when I've lost the weight, etc.)

I agree change is coming! And I vacillate between disgust for my own kind and loving us and believing in us. We are a cancer as we ARE now, though -- I truly think so. We need to admit this and change our ways so that we become what we were born to be -- part of the whole. :-) Point taken though, Little, and thank you for adding to it Lynnm.

The event(s) surrounding the mass extinction of dinosaurs did not end all life on Earth, in fact in their absence, it has been argued that mammals came to the fore. Similarly, global warming will not end life on Earth, it probably will result in mass extinctions, and possibly a big correction in human numbers (food and water shortages, desertification of currently habitable areas, flooding from sea rise, warfare for scarce resources), but we will survive as a species at least over the short to medium term. Over millions of years, well it seems unlikely.
Only a large social and cultural change can prevent a catastrophe overtaking us. We have to remember that we are constrained by what we are, a social, hierarchical and highly competitive primate with a seemingly insatiable appetite for consumption. Evolution did not fit us particularly well for such a large population, technology we can’t control and a finite planet. As Durkheim once wrote, the function (sic) of society is to constraint Man’s (sic) insatiable desires, and yet here we are with a global economy directed at promoting and producing limitless appetites.
If we had fully functioning pluralistic democracies there could be a political counterbalance to mitigate the dominance of corporate interests and begin a change in direction, but increasingly this is the opposite of what is happening (gas fracking being the latest deception, it is green only in the minds of marketing companies).

Good points, Alan--my friends and I are attending a fracking conference next Monday with our state representative, since MI is deeply impacted by this process.

I see your point about pulling back to take the "long view" of what is happening--but after participating in the Climate Literacy class on Coursera, I find that hard to do. The forums had people from all over the world, and when individuals from developing countries become very real, that long-term view is hard to face.

The estimate is that we will have 700 million climate refugees--already the Maldives have given up and are looking to relocate their population. The Bonn conference just held in June. https://unfccc.int/meetings/bonn_jun_...

This is a lead up to the Warsaw Climate Change Conference this November. http://unfccc.int/meetings/warsaw_nov...

So when a human face is put on "statistics", I'm glad to see people who are still striving to find a way to adapt to what is coming. Population is a constant thread of discussion in these conferences; we're at 7 billion now and headed to 9 billion.

Perhaps catastrophic conditions WILL act as "population control"--but those millions who may be lost have faces and hopes and fears. This issue became very human to me when someone in the class shared this site, showing children who are trying to make a difference. http://www.youngvoicesonclimatechange...

Someone in that course continually pointed out that nothing we do will make any difference. Maybe not--but I come down on the side of those who try, especially the young ones.

Hi Julia, I don't take the long-term view on a personal level. I'm as frustrated as anyone at the inability of so many people to even try to make sense of what is happening and use their vote to bring about change. I am concern about the world my daughter will live in, and how wqe could change things if there was a will on the part of the broader public to think beyond their own short-term pleasures and conveniences. Instead we get politicians tied to corporations instead of their constituences, and they still get voted for even though it is fairly clear that they represent nothing other than the status quo. What we need is a democracy that acknowledges non-human lifeforms, and a start could be a constitution that protects the environment, but can you imagine that getting any votes? Long-term view? Nature doesn't care about humankind, so either we adapt socially, emotionally and politically, or find the carpet pulled from under us.

I love your idea of a democracy that "acknowledges non-human life forms", but when greed is the overriding ethical system of a nation, those life forms simply are not counted.

What I do hold onto is Gandhi and his ilk, who tell me to "be the change you wish to see in the world." I can't do everything--but I can do something. That's why those children from the Young Voices on Climate Change impressed me.

My friends and I are about finished with politics, for the reason you mentioned--the immoral link to corporations. So we're putting our efforts into NGO's, since governments are living up to Lord Acton's epigram: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

That's why I'm nominating Wangari Maathai's autobiography for our reading calendar. The 9 year old boy in Young Voices was inspired by her, and his 6 minute video never fails to energize me. http://www.youngvoicesonclimatechange...

At the end, you see him with Maathai--and his organization in Germany, Plant for the Planet, is quite an achievement. http://www.plant-for-the-planet.org/en

As Felix says, if the adults won't act, the children must. As a retired teacher, I never underestimate the power of an inspired young adult :-)

And I'm learning that the rest of the world is sort of giving up on the U.S., with our recalcitrance over Kyoto and Copenhagen. There is hope--but for me it's in other countries and in the children.

I think "giving up on the U. S." is a mistake. Same goes for being "finished with politics."

Jimmy, I'm saying that the idea of "giving up on the U.S." was expressed by people from other countries in the Coursera class SPECIFICALLY about Climate Change. Our record there is reprehensible. Certainly I have not "given up" on the U.S. in other terms--but the world doesn't look to us for leadership in fighting climate change.

And sorry, but politics is so poisoned by the link to corporations that I HAVE given up on it. The hideous waste of money in the past election is inexcusable in a nation with so many people in need.

So I was just expressing the view of my friends and myself, who are directing our monies to NGO's. This is not a debate, just an expression of what I've decided.

Alan wrote: "Hi Julia, I don't take the long-term view on a personal level. I'm as frustrated as anyone at the inability of so many people to even try to make sense of what is happening and use their vote to br..."

"What we need is a democracy that acknowledges non-human life forms." YES! You know, if we made a platform built only on THAT -- a PR campaign I guess I should say, that might actually make a difference in many people's thinking over time. An idea that's written simply and repeated often is what seems to set. Sometimes I think we propose our ideas in too many words and then people don't absorb them. So, Alan, make it so! :-D

Great point, Tanya--I just posted this in the quotes thread, but think it belongs here too. Go Alan!

“From the deserts of Namibia to the razor-backed Himalayas, there are wonderful creatures that have roamed the Earth much longer than we, creatures that not only are worthy of our respect but could teach us about ourselves.”

The Rarest of the Rare: Vanishing Animals, Timeless Worlds