Authors Helping Authors discussion

This topic has arisen in the Can I help You discussion.
I feel it needs more discussion and thought so I'll begin.

I am guilty of trawling amazon kindle for free books.
To begin with I was vey excited and would download a variety of genres.
But now I am beginning to think that quality is definitely better then quantity.

The free sample from amazon kindle is great, you can immediately see whether the book is well edited and if it is a style you enjoy.

I think that is all that should be free. The books do not need to be very expensive, but it would perhaps encourage people to pay for an editor if they knew that they would get some of their money back.

So what do you think?
What are your experiences?
What can we do about it?

As a reader I love free books, although I try to at least buy one book for every free one I download.

As an author they're probably the best way to get noticed, however I am pulling my books out of Select so I can support more platforms. This means I won't be offering free promotions,bar the free stories on my blog.

My outlook is this - I've worked hard on my books and I want people to read them so I am exclusively on Amazon and use my free promos to get more people downloading my books. The rest of the time they are being sold at the cheapest price possible $0.99/£0.77 to encourage sales.

I think this issue of whether to go for free promos or not all depends on the authors outlook. Personally I'm not that interested in making money right now, I just want to get my work out there, being seen by as many people as possible and getting their reactions through reviews. So far the response has mostly been positive and this is very encouraging.

I did have my first book on smashwords before I enrolled in kindle select and I gave away 200 copies listing it free there for two months. I then gave away over 200 copies on my first free day with kindle select. I'm sticking with amazon given the experience I've had.

I also download a lot of free indie books and I read and review them. I've found a few authors I really enjoyed and have bought some of their other books. I think people appreciate getting something for free and it could bring future sales. I tend to sell more copies of book no 2 when I've just had a free promo on my first book.


Jenni - Editors are expensive. I looked into getting one and simply couldn't afford it. I think most indie authors would use one if they had the cash for it. Also it's impossible to gauge whether or not you will make your money back and it's a big risk to take if you don't have a lot of money in the first place.

I am going to write in the correct thread the links that pertain to this comment.

One of the most helpful established authors that I have stumbled across on Twitter is Rayne Hall. I recently messaged her as to whether she was running any on-line writing courses this year. She responded with a great link and a course in September. The course was not quite what I was looking for and as such it is pertinent here.

It is called "Promoting your book through short stories." The idea being that we all jot the odd short story, why not combine them into a book and give that away free to promote your main book?

I signed up $16.00, two reasons;

1) I get to learn from a great writer; I loved her book Storm Dancer and often reference from her writing books.
2) For $16.00 I am going to get my short story reviewed by a professional writer and editor.

I have approx 30k words already in short stories, so it seems to me that there could only be positives from thinking up a few more and using them as the free-be.

I'll post the links in the correct thread if anyone is interested.

Sharon wrote: "My outlook is this - I've worked hard on my books and I want people to read them so I am exclusively on Amazon and use my free promos to get more people downloading my books. The rest of the time ..."

Hi, I'm just wondering, if your first book out there in the big scary world of readers is not a smooth ride because of editing issues, then people will not write rave reviews and they won't be inclined to look at later books either.
A first book is usually around 70,000 words, or so I have been told. There are editors, who have good reviews, who charge £250 for a work of this size. If paying this means that people are more likely to buy after reading the sample, and may very well be interested in later works...and if the book costs just $2 to buy....it won't take many to pay it back.
If there were fewer free books people would be happy to pay $2 for a well edited book I'm sure.
I don't know, I'm new and hope this will open more discussion.

It's up to the individual author to make sure their book is as well edited as they can get it before they put it out there. Whether they do this using an editor or not is up to them. I've come across a lot of good books that were offered for free. There has been a very small percentage I've read that have been edited badly. Most writers who seriously want to publish want to get the editing right; they spend time reading books and doing courses to get to a level where they know they are good enough. Sure an independent editor would help too but I certainly don't have the spare cash for that - My first book was 92K words & £400 was the lowest priced I could find.

Even given all this, it's never going to be a smooth ride because there will always be someone out there who doesn't like your book for one reason or another.

Amazon KDP isn't going anywhere either so I doubt there will ever be much fewer free books.

This is certainly something that I'm struggling with now as a previously published author who decided to go down the Amazon route.
I had offers from a couple of small presses but in the end didn't want to wait another eighteen months for my book to be come out.
I've had my book edited by someone from one of the major publishers and was happy to pay a professional because I know the difference it makes.
However I'm now not that concerned about making my money back - I'd rather the book got read. I put 'Nothing you can do' out there at 0.77p and it's been selling well. (It's actually selling faster than a crime novel I had published years ago).
I'm toying with the idea of a 'free' promotion to get the book read and reviewed.
If I'm honest I share other people's concerns about 'free' books because some of them are poorly executed pieces of writing in all respects.
Having said that, in recent years major houses have been cutting back on in house editors and lately there have been one or two notable offerings from reputable writers which have been badly in need of editing. (And don't get me started on things like Parade's End which was rushed out in an appalling kindle version to cash in on all things Maddox Ford!).

I'm new to Goodreads and don't want to fall foul of any online etiquette so haven't posted a link to 'Nothing you can do'.

Feel free to post link Lewis. It's what the site is for. Post under book links. Promote away just pop it all in the right section. Feel free to dm me on twitter @Super_Tommo and I will shout you out there as well. Also look at theawesomeindies web site. May be of use to you.

Thanks Ian.
Here's the link to my book.
May not work as this is an iPad effort.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nothing-you-c...

Cheers.

I have had a really good experience with KDP free promos on Amazon. Other sites simply don't offer the promotional muscle Amazon does. Smashwords would be a close second but I would really like if B&N or others offered authors and publishers a free promo opportunity like Amazon.

J. A. Konrath and many others have gone all in with Amazon for good reason. We don't work for Amazon but they certainly have worked for us.

I download free books but try to review those that I do. I have found helping others helps me as an author plus there are a lot of good reads that would never be noticed if it weren't for a free promo.

Brian wrote: "I have had a really good experience with KDP free promos on Amazon. Other sites simply don't offer the promotional muscle Amazon does. Smashwords would be a close second but I would really like if ..."

Agreed on the reviewing thing. I also find that thinking of the review while reading helps guide my appreciation.

Definitely. It is like tipping the server at a restaurant.

Way back when, I used to do paid surveys online (I still do on occasion) and tend to think of free books in much the same way - as a sample from the author given in exchange for feedback and possibly future purchases.

I agree Brian. Sometimes that's the only way to bring an author's work some attention and recognition. I think the added exposure is fair compensation for a giant like Amazon.

I'm inclined to do a free book promo.
Any advice?
Choose a wet weekend?

Lewis wrote: "I'm inclined to do a free book promo.
Any advice?
Choose a wet weekend?"

Hi Lewis - strange you should ask this question as just yesterday I posted a blog about my entire free Kindle promotion experience. I wrote it for other authors so please feel free to take a peek. Be warned, it's very long!
http://alicehuskissonauthor.wordpress...

I've just set up a free promo weekend for my book Limerence. I got in touch with a lot of contacts I already had from book bloggers and reviewers- some of which had previously read it and liked it, and have told them about it. They have all promised to Facebook, tweet, google+, blog etc etc about it and of course I will be doing the same. I'll let you know how I get on.

What is the link Claire happy to shout on Twitter for you. Dm me on Twitter @Super_Tommo. :)

Thanks Ian. I appreciate that ;0) xx

Oh, I meant to say as well Lewis. I did some research with a heck of a lot of authors on when is the best time to do a free promo and they all said the same, in the middle of the month. Though if your book is currently selling quite well then don't touch it, leave it until the sales dry up a bit first xx

Last day FREE
Dear friends
My new book is still free until tomorrow on Amazon worldwide, so please make sure you get your own copy by then and could share around, thanks:)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C6X030G
Best regards,
Boyko

Thanks for the heads up. I'll wait until the middle of next month now before doing the free push.
I've looked around at various blogs and the other thing that's giving me pause for thought is how many days to run the book for free.
I'm tempted to do some pre-promo publicity on blogs and here before trying a 'one day only' shot.

Thanks Claire. xx

That sounds like a good idea, Lewis. Though I always think 1 day promo's are risky incase people think 'i'll get it later' and forget.

First, I wanted to comment about the discussion topic. I did a lot of research on this matter as I began preparing to publish my first YA novel. From what I have read, the select program and free promos are very helpful in boosting your ratings, where you pop up on searches, as well as overall exposure. Someone else mentioned it being the preference of the author and I myself want the exposure now so that I can hopefully build a good following for the upcoming books in the series. It seems scary pulling it from all other platforms and allowing the world to download it for free, but I am willing to take the chance. I am the type who downloads free books and if I like them, will buy more from the author. I have really collected a few favorites this way.

With that said, here is the link to my FREE Kindle Edition of Harvest Moon, my first YA novel. The promo runs 4/22-4/24
Download your copy and please feel free to share the link!!

Thank you and good luck to everyone in the Indie world of writing!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_nos...

I've always believed that to get, you have to give. For a new author trying to gain exposure, sometimes you have to do a few freebie days to get recognition. But I have downloaded books for free before then bought others by the same author. It's a great way to experience and "try out" new authors without blowing a lot of money. Even at $2.99, if you buy a lot of books, it adds up. It's sort of like checking a book out of the library to see if you like the author, except you get to keep it. I'm doing my first free promo later this week, so I'm curious to see how it'll go.

I found Scott Nicholson during a free promo and he instantly became one of my favorite authors. I don't know if I ever would have found him otherwise but I now have nearly all of his books!

Free promotions work best if you have many titles to offer or if your freebie is the first in a series. Hook them with the freebie and then reel them in with your talent.

Ruth Nordin is an Indie author and Smashwords success story, to me anyways, and several of her books are always free, others are priced at $.99 and others for $2.99

I think freebies are a great way to get your work out there and get it read which is usually the goal of any writer. Personally, I love the freebies!

Hi guys from Italy!
can you please help me out downloading this for FREE?

2 short stories and 3 flash-fiction
Darkness, come on in...

amzn.to/KmMFMo

Unfortunately, it is FREE only on Amazon.com

Thanks a lot

Claire wrote: "Oh, I meant to say as well Lewis. I did some research with a heck of a lot of authors on when is the best time to do a free promo and they all said the same, in the middle of the month. Though if y..."

That's interesting - any idea why the middle of the month is best?

Another good reason to do free, especially if the book is new, is that you get included in Amazon's "People who bought this book also bought..." which is good exposure.

I think a free book promo is sort of like a publishers slush pile, only you're letting the readers do the job. You offer them the book, if it takes off, great, it's like the publisher loved it. If it doesn't take off after the free promotion, it's like a rejection letter. Fall back and rewrite.

Kate wrote: "Claire wrote: "Oh, I meant to say as well Lewis. I did some research with a heck of a lot of authors on when is the best time to do a free promo and they all said the same, in the middle of the mon..."

From what everyone said, and it seemed to make sense, is that the beginning of the month everyone has been paid, and most people will be buying the books that have just been released and have the money to pay for the books they want and so won't look for any free books.
The end of the month, everyone is broke and is waiting for the end of month payday AND book releases,so if they do down;oad your free book they are less likely to read it anytime soon.
Where as the middle of the month is when everyone knows that there is still a lot of month to go, but they want something new to read, and so look through for free books and are more likely to download and read straight away.
That's what i was told anyway...

Gideon wrote: "Another good reason to do free, especially if the book is new, is that you get included in Amazon's "People who bought this book also bought..." which is good exposure."

Hadn't even thought of that! Clever ☺

I just did a FREE promo weekend on my book Limerence and I said I would get back to you all with my results. Okay, so I'm not too sure what is classed as good or bad, but I was pretty pleased with the results. Over the three day event I had over 2000 downloads. I've had a couple of reviews come in already and they have all been positive. I've also had more hits to my website and more 'likes' on my facebook oage, and more followers on Twitter. I think it was a success, but mainly I just hope that whoever downloaded it, reads it and really enjoys it.

Claire
That's fantastic. Well done.

Lewis wrote: "Claire
That's fantastic. Well done."

Thanks, Lewis ☺
Now it's time to finish getting my second one written! That's the next best thing you can do as a new writer- have more than one book available.
I've read a couple of articles now that all say the same thing... keep writing. Don't stop writing to promote one book. The more books you have available, the mmore books you are likely to sell.

Claire wrote: "From what everyone said, and it seemed to make sense, is that the beginning of the month everyone has been paid, and most people will be buying the books that have just been released and have the money to pay for the books they want and so won't look for any free books."

Thanks, Claire that's interesting. I would have thought since most purchases on Amazon are with credit cards holding off till the next statement date would be more of an issue! And they are spread fairly evenly through the month. Maybe people just feel better off after payday...

I'm kind of a newbie to this group. First of all, much thanks for all your great advice! My first book is about to come out, so I am soaking up your input like crazy. Best to everyone....

Jenni wrote: "This topic has arisen in the Can I help You discussion.
I feel it needs more discussion and thought so I'll begin.

I am guilty of trawling amazon kindle for free books.
To begin with I was vey exc..."

Jenni wrote: "This topic has arisen in the Can I help You discussion.
I feel it needs more discussion and thought so I'll begin.

I am guilty of trawling amazon kindle for free books.
To begin with I was vey exc..."

Congratulations Claire, that sounds an awesome result. Can you keep this thread posted with any further thoughts after a week/month or so? For instance number of reviews and any paid sales that followed.Good or bad, just for info :)

Sweet Jesus yes! Free books are the single best thing to happen for writers. Free books helped propel me from making $20 a month writing to over $8000 (over a period of a year or so - it wasn't overnight).

Seriously, I like to leave the first book in a series free and then charge normal price for subsequent books (normal for me is $2.99 - $4.99, I'm cheap). It's called a loss leader and it pulls people in. Readers get hooked and then buy the following books. I've done research (I'm a numbers junky), and I make more giving book 1 away than I do charging for it. Crazy, but free works.

KDP Select and I don't get along. I have 8 books in it presently but I wish I didn't. I keep trying it out, thinking my experience will be different - it never is. 5 days out of 90 isn't enough time to make a book free, the sales boost fades way too quickly.

Yes, definitely Ian xx

Sharon wrote: "My outlook is this - I've worked hard on my books and I want people to read them so I am exclusively on Amazon and use my free promos to get more people downloading my books. The rest of the time ..."

But your book has to be the best it can be. It takes money to make money, and to exclude an editor is exactly why readers get jumpy about indie books; their low quality of writing. At least have a writing group where other accomplished authors can give you feedback and help with some of the typos and grammatical mistakes.

Also, I think my books are priced too high but I can't do anything about that because it's up to my publisher. But if I were publishing these on my own I would lower the price, especially the ebook. But I don't think books should be normally priced at .99 cents. That devalues YOUR book and readers might think they're getting what they paid for. It's a tough call, but I price my short stories at .99 cents, and novels higher. How much higher depends on a few factors. A limited time sale at .99 is okay, but the message to the reader, in my eyes, is that your book should be worth more and priced higher.

I disagree, though a lot of people look at free books this way. I don't think a cheap book devalues your writing in any way. I think- especially for new authors it's the best way to get new readers.

I went for 77p to try and get people reading my first book on Kindle. Yes I've spent a lot of money and time on it (a writers group consisting of published writers and a professional editor from Penguin) and I would like to think it's worth a lot more than 77p. The harsh reality is that the book is worth what people will pay for it. My first published novel was £15.99 in hardback and £7.99 in paperback. It sold well but I know it didn't make my advance of £2000 back for the publishers.
If I can get my current book through to half as many readers as Claire I'll be happy.


(PS anyone know how to edit Goodreads comments on an iPhone?? I tried to make corrections but the d*** thing posted itself instead!)

Ha ha, no idea, Ian.
I agree with your comments though x

I agree that it helps. My 3 day promotion got me around 840 downloads and today my first day after the promotion, sales were great. I think it's a wonderful tool for self published first time authors to get their name and their work, out there.

Brian, I agree and I started a book review blog after realizing how hard it was to get book reviews for my first novel; pre-release. Now I dedicate my blog to self published/Indie authors. Check it out www.turnthepagebookblog.blogapot.com

Any one got any thoughts on the best day(s) to do a free book promotion? I did mine on a weekend last time thinking that was when most people would download. But there are also more free books on offer then...plus I tend to get more sales at the weekend. So I may try mid-week if I do another one.

However, I'm still not sure that free promotions work if you only have one book out - as I do. From what I've read on forums etc, a lot of people go through and hoover up loads of free books but then don't get round to reading them.

Getting a good free ranking on Amazon boosts visibility in the short term but now that free downloads don't boost your sales ranking I'm not sure there's a long term effect.

Sunday is supposed to be the best dat, but I found Friday was better for me.