Pride and Prejudice discussion

Having just read an amusing erotic short Proud and Prejudged in which a young woman is awakened sexually though fantasizing about and experiencing sex with Elizabeth Bennet and Mr.Darcy I was then led to another Pride and Prejudice sexual spin off, Pride and Prejudice Hidden Lusts which I haven't yet read but looks a lot of fun ...

...well, it looks fun to me but I ran across an article that suggested a lot of people were up in arsm about Austen's content and characters being treated in such a dreadful way. The idea seems to be that because Austen wrote in a certain style and would have lived in an age in which these subjects would ahve been taboo it's something akin to sacrilege to do this to them. Or maybe it's just because they are such well loved characters in the first place.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mitzi...

So, I'm wondering what other people think about this - is it Ok for Austen's world and the world of sex to collide? Or is it just really tacky and sleazy?

Tacky and sleazy.

Look, if you enjoy it go ahead. Read it, good for the authors. As there is no copyright on any books older than 150 years (I think) that is not an issue.

To be honest I think erotica and romance are poo-pooed as genres. I will vehemently tell people I don't read them. And I think is because they are/used to be (generally) terribly written. People like me, and I will acknowledge that I am very picky and a book snob, refuse to see something to beautifully crafted 'sullied' by bad writing.

But to be honest, go ahead read whatever makes you happy, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Tell me you enjoyed sexy Mr. Darcy more than proud Mr. Darcy, but don't tell me I have to read it because it's *better*.

any book was that written prior to 1930 is in public domain which means there is legally no copyright on it and people can do spin-offs; paradoies; re-tellings without having to gain any legal permission from anyone.

personally, i'm not a fan of said re-tellings, but at the same time, I don't poo-poo those who do like them. I'm doing a reading challenge in september which involves reading a classic (i'm doing Emma) and then reading or watching at least 2 variations on it

Melanie wrote: "But to be honest, go ahead read whatever makes you happy, that's exactly what I'm going to do. Tell me you enjoyed sexy Mr. Darcy more than proud Mr. Darcy, but don't tell me I have to read it because it's *better*. "

Well, I'm the author of Proud and Prejudged and I just wanted to state that I didn't write it thinking that I was better than Jane Austen or that anyone should come away from my short preferring it to Austen or any other literary classic. I think that Jane Austen was an amazing genius, whereas I'm just dabbling in writing fiction. If you did read my work and thought it better than Austen I think you'd need your head examining.

Actually, what I'm hoping to do with it is the complete opposite. Clara Brooks in the story has a profound sexual experience through the process of reading literature and exploring the work of great authors. It's reading and literature that turns her on and makes her horny - that's partly the point. If anything my erotica is a response to the kind of quick and dirty non-literary erotica that you're talking about ... not that my writing is so amazing, but I liked the idea that you could blend erotic fiction and literary fiction, not just as pastiche but as something meaningful; though it is, I hope, quite playful. I think that erotica can be fun, funny and thoughtful too - as well as arousing.

[quote]If you did read my work and thought it better than Austen I think you'd need your head examining.[/quote]

Thant made me laugh!

I think I need to explain that slightly. I have no issues with the authors. I think it's fantastic that you have been able to not only publish something, but also have got to the point where people are debating about your book. Well done! :)

My complaint about people comparing comes from my bookshop experience. I have worked through the Twilight and the 50 Shades insanity. I overheard a customer comparing Twilight to Shakespeare. Don't come up to me and tell me to read 50 Shades because it's the best book you've ever read. Really?

I really like the way you've described your book, the taboo around erotica has been broken and I think that's fantastic as long as there are people writing clever erotica.

Actually I am taken with the idea of being up in arsm over an erotic spinoff (see the original letter, that's what grabbed me - faintly obscene, no?). I have utterly given up on P&P spinoffs, though, and only stick with the original, never disappoints.

I think if Jane Austen were alive today, she'd be flattered by all the spin offs and stories written using her characters. I honestly don't know what she'd think of the erotica.

I like to read the P&P spinoffs, at least some of them. I find them fun ways to imagine the characters I love so much. Just as I sometimes do myself, but I don't have any writing ability. It is no different than any other fan fiction, and I know at least a few writers who got their start with fan fiction.

I love the tendency people feel to be territorial about their favourite books/music/things in general. When they see someone else loving the thing they love they simply can't handle it if they're loving it wrong.

It's almost worse than people not liking it because at least then you can wave a dismissive hand at them and claim they missed the point.

I kinda feel that impulse at times but I know it's unreasonable :P When it comes to these spin offs I think it's fine really. It's not like someone is altering every copy of the original Pride and Prejudice like George Lucas and the original trilogy, P&P still exists exactly as it always has.

It's just enchanted so many people and some of them decided to have some fun with it. The copies of the original that sit on the shelves of all the purists aren't at all affected and they're not obligated to seek out the changed version so how can it possibly offend?

This is, of course, aside from Melanie's point about being told something is better or what have you since that's annoying as hell. But to be fair, it's a thing that happens with any book. Having someone find out my favourite book and immediately suggest I read my least favourite book, claiming it to be better, is just as offensive to me.

Samantha The Escapist wrote: "When it comes to these spin offs I think it's fine really. It's not like someone is altering every copy of the original Pride and Prejudice like George Lucas and the original trilogy, P&P still exists exactly as it always has.

It's just enchanted so many people and some of them decided to have some fun with it."

Something like 50 Shades of Grey is interesting because it started a Twilight like phenomenon, was based on Twilight but its attitude to sex is in a lot of ways the opposite of Twilight. i.e there's lots of it. I don't know what Meyer thinks of the books, I imagine, on the one hand, she's not that happy ... but on the other, once you put a book out there it's out there in the world and in culture and it's no longer your text really, except regarding the financial copyright and hold you have on character names and events etc.

I don't know if Jane Austen would have been pleased. Stunned possibly. I don't think her works were treated in a similar way in her day. Dickens' was subject to a lot of plagiarism and rip-off literature though ... pretty much everything he wrote was re-written as a penny dreadful for illiterate markets, so it's not a new practice - but he was writing a good few years later than Austen.

But basically I agree - I think it's amazing the reach that Austen's books have had and continue to have and the fact that people want to write about the characters in them in all sorts of ways 200 years after they were written is quite fantastic and amazing. If people weren't doing it then the books would have died and they'd be doing it about something else instead - like Twilight - and I for one would much rather that people read Austen than Meyer!

I think it depends on what is being adapted... There was quite a long thread about the book Jane Eyre laid bare that had a lot of people (myself included) really saying how much we didn't want that, the reason behind it is that Jane Eyre focuses so much on not giving into temptation, you can feel the sexual tension between Jane and Rochester... in Pride and Prejudice you really don't get that feeling as much (at least in my opinion), so depending how it was handled I don't think it would 'ruin' the original.

When it comes to adopting the 'classics' I don't have a problem with it, but from reading various adaptations I can say that so far, they haven't been my cup of tea.

I don't mind adaptations so much, even though I don't really read them. As for the erotic part. Well I admit that I read a lot of erotica. It's a guilty pleasure of mine and IMO it's like Carina said. It depends on what book is being adapted. Combining erotica with Pride and Prejudice doesn't bother me as much because you don't get the feeling that Austin would have minded much. Plus IMO there is a bit of a sexual undercurrent already established in the original Pride and Prejudice. I usually really don't like Pride and Prejudice adaptations because I love the book so much though I have found a series that continues the story of Elizabeth and Darcy that I really like. It's stays pretty true to the characters and that is important to me. Sharon Lathan is the author if any of you are interested.

as the saying goes " If it isn't broke don't fix it" Austen's book is a classic and the story does not need to have a spin-off. Not an erotic one especially. I'm not knocking all spin offs, just saying this particular one. I guess for me it just would ruin the book. yes, I agree sleazey and tacky.

I guess that I don't think writing spin-offs is wrong, but placing them in erotica seems... not relevant. In the book there is not any hints of that sort of thing so why make it out to have them? I don't have a big problem about it but I think that if you're going to write a spin-off, erotica is not the way to go for pride and prejudice. I'm not saying that people shouldn't write it and not that it won't be good, I just don't think it suits the original book very well. It's a classic and there are other novels which would suit the erotica genre better, so why not use them? Or even better make up your on characters?

Sorrel wrote: " not relevant. In the book there is not any hints of that sort of thing so why make it out to have them? I don't have a big problem about it but I think that if you're going to write a spin-off, erotica is not the way to go for pride and prejudice. "

But surely that in part is the very point? Part of the sexual frisson comes from the fact that this is something that really oughtn't to be happening, it's unusual and therefore risky and that makes it all the more exciting. I think along with that though it's also a little ridiculous - I try and no doubt fail to get all of those things across in my writing.

I think when a lot of people think of these things they either have 50 Shades of Grey or some skeezy porno parody in their head. I tried really hard to write something that's not like that in order to show that it's legitimate and fun to have erotic fantasies about crazy things (and it's certainly not all about obsessing about some guy who humiliates and subjugates you) ... the more you use your imagination in sex the more fun it gets - right. Right?

I think that there is a great difference between what Clara Brooks says she is doing - I haven't read her book myself - in having a character INTERACT with established literary characters, and those who rewrite a great novel because they think that they can do that novel better (with more sex, for example).

The latter is hubris, but the former is perfectly valid. I probably will never read it - I don't particularly enjoy *reading* about sex! - but I don't *disapprove* of it.

I just think the author is very brave - to put their own text up against such a beautifully crafted one invites comparison. I pity the frequent attempts to satirize Austen - their attempts are so clumsy & banal, compared to the work of the master satirist herself!

Alexandra wrote: "I just think the author is very brave - to put their own text up against such a beautifully crafted one invites comparison. I pity the frequent attempts to satirize Austen - their attempts are so clumsy & banal, compared to the work of the master satirist herself! "

It's madness, sheer madness I tell you! :D

I recently read the completed version Sanditon by "the other lady" and, honestly, I was quite impressed with a lot of what she did, and it was very readable, but at the same time I had the distinct feeling that she'd bitten off way more than she could chew. The tone of the story slipped further and further away from Austen = particularly in terms of craftsmanship - the more it continued and in the end I just wanted to be reading more Austen. It made me sad.

But either way literature should be fun and entertaining and rewarding and if people are enjoying reading and writing that's got to be a good thing.

What Jane Austen wrote will be one of the best classics in this era .It was beautiful and amazingly put together with an awesome feeling of that times .
I think it would be seriously difficult for the new writers to give the reader the same feeling that the authors of that century gave .
But i think it is admirable of the writers to try and give a new outlook to the books of the Austen era.
just imagining Mr.Darcy in the 21th century give me this wierd urge to giggle and blush ...
I will give the other new novels based on the Austen books a chance to prove that they are just as fun as the Austen once were ..

Noe wrote: "I’m not against spin-offs of Jane Austen; I’ve written one myself (you can find it here on Goodreads). But when it comes to placing Jane Austen’s characters into ertotica, I don’t see the sense in it. Nothing about Austen’s books come remotely close to it, and isn’t that part of the reason we like her books? I can’t imagine someone who really likes reading Jane Austen having a taste for that kind of a spin-off, just like I can’t imagine someone who reads erotica liking Jane Austen. I would never use the word sacrilege for a secular book, but I do agree with the tacky and sleazy description. "

Well Noe. I've put my story up as a freebie for the day because I want to challenge your assertion that erotica lovers could like Jane Austen and that what I write would necessarily be "sleazy and tacky"

So please, anyone in this thread, sample my work and let me know what you think?(I'd ask that you don't rate me down because it's hardcore erotica, but by all means rate me poorly if you genuinely think that it's poorly written) and I'll go away and read Darcy in Space and see if I think that's tacky .... heh Ok I'm kidding, I read a little bit of that and I'm totally behind Darcy in Space, it's funny!! :D

http://www.amzn.com/dp/B00DBNP1X4/

I have read a couple of modern spin-offs of Jane Austen. Frankly, they always disappoint, not because they are poorly written, but because I have such a strong impression of the characters from the originals that they can never be matched. The characters always seem to act, well, out of character and they never come close to matching Austen's wit. Personally, I have no interest in reading erotica based on Pride and Prejudice but then I'm not a big fan of erotica at the best of times - the extent of my erotica experience, admittedly, is a bit of Anais Nin so I haven't much opinion on the genre. I have to admit, though, a slight sense of sacrilege, sort of like seeing a copy of the Mona Lisa without her smile...or clothes - it's still a picture but not THE picture if that makes sense. But, since I'm not going to read it and others enjoy it, who am I to nay say. On the other hand, I doubt very much that reading P&P erotica will entice anyone to read the original.

My sense is that Jane Austen would not be offended that people have taken her stories and written spin-offs. It seems to reflect a kind of homage: a lot of fans wish that she had written more; absent that, they seek to creatively extend something of what they enjoy about her work, and keep alive something of the spirit which pervades it. Yes it is using Jane Austen's creations as a basis; but with regard and kinship, which seems like celebration rather than sacrilege. Personally I have never actually read any of the spin-offs, because JA's characters and stories are dear to me as they are, and I couldn't help feeling disappointed at the loss of her unique authorial voice the few times that I did make an effort. The characters had the same names but not the same life breathed into them, which for me felt intrinsically ersatz.

What might really bother Jane Austen are movies like 'Becoming Jane', which takes liberties with her actual life, manufacturing from imagination a misleading portrait of the author behind the works.