Goodreads Ireland discussion

I think there is definitely something to what you're saying, Allan. Any big band makes money through merchandise and ticket sales. A writer's primary earnings are through book sales. I couldn't illelegally download a book any more than I could steal one from a shop.

*Illegally :/

Once in a blue moon, I'll download an ebook if I've already bought the audiobook, and just want to see a bit in print.

Like recently on The Disappearing Spoon: And Other True Tales of Madness, Love, and the History of the World from the Periodic Table of the Elements when they narrator didn't read out a word that was 1,185 letters long, and I wanted to see it for myself.

I might add that book to my collection just to read that word.

Declan wrote: "I might add that book to my collection just to read that word."

Actually, you can see it here.

Ah, a biochemical word. Suddenly it seems perfectly normal.

I've read American Gods and The Graveyard Book, which were quite different from each other. He also wrote the book Stardust that was adapted for the movie and Neverwhere was adapted into a TV mini-series. I didn't see The Neverwhere adaptation or read the book, but it was kind of a big deal when it was aired.

A rather nice little tale. I don't know why he found the professor/writer discussion with the police officer dispiriting. Had he been a professor he could have just responded "yes." typically, though, fiction writers, who usually describe themselves as writers, are not professors. They usually prefer to be acknowledged as academics.

Great article by Glenn Patterson about being on the edge of the recent G8. It reveals his off-the-cuff teaching style - or perhaps "fly by the seat of his pants". It's charming and amazing when it works. I've met him a couple of times and this is so much how he seems to function.
My favorite part of the article is his return to Belfast still full of security and G8 protests, as well as Orangemen observing "the marching season" with the brick he used as a prop for his writing workshop:

I stepped out on to the pavement and as I did I saw the man talking to the foot patrol, which was turning around, coming back towards me. The officer with the machine gun strolled over, insofar as anyone with a machine gun slung across her midriff can stroll.

"Is it the brick?" I asked. "It is the brick," she said. I told her it was a prop. I told her it was from Fivemiletown. One of the other officers had gone round behind me. "It's a prop," she called to him. I looked over my shoulder. He didn't look as though he was buying it. I turned back to the officer with the machine gun.

"I've been using Ciaran Carson's 'Brick'. You set this on the table at the start and ask people what it is then you read 'Brick' and suddenly it's more than just a brick…"

"The power of education," she said.

"That's right."

She looked at me, weighing all this up. "You're not a protestor then?"

"I'm a writer," I said.

I think the distinction was "protestor" - easy to confuse:)

Allan wrote: "I've no idea how I've missed his work-possibly by me judging books by their covers while browsing? Thanks for the info, Declan!"

Neil Gaiman's work is quite good. One reason you may not have heard of him is that his last adult novel before the one that just came out, came out 7 or 8 years ago. I would recommend American Gods as good starting place, or Good Omens (if you like humor) or any of his short story collections (except M is for Magic which is gear at kids).

Eden Halt: An Antrim Memoir, by Ross Skelton isn't in the Goodreads database yet. It's available here in the US via Kindle for $7.99 so I may buy it there. I am intrigued by this description from the review:"It is also a stark account of a very particular Northern Irish childhood, which achieves the odd effect of seeming typical in a dour Ulster Protestant way while being completely out of the ordinary. " The dour Protestant way is something I just have to read about.

In that case I think I'll let you read it first, Allan, and you can tell me whether or not it correctly portrays that lifestyle/stereotype.

By the way, I love the name Boneybefore. Please tell me it's a pretty town. I hate the thought of somewhere with a pleasant name being in any way ugly.

The book is only $7.99 on kindle.
Speaking of Andrew Jackson, several years ago Northern Ireland was one of the 3 cultures featured at the Smithsonian Folklife Festivsl. One of the big hand painted Orange Lodge banners was of Andrew Jackson. The man at the exhibit told us he was quite taken aback at the number of Americans who told him that Andrew Jackson is considered a villain in American history because of his campaigns that led to the slaughter of many Native Americans . A great example of different perceptions in different contexts and cultures.

Another nice little article, Allan.

Seeing as the article brought it up, what's your take on Ulster-Scots as a language? It would seem to me that Scottish English should then be considered its own language as I can't understand it written down.

Wow! That was more forthright than I expected. I see you're not going to sit on the fence, lol!

I really enjoyed reading that, Allan. You have a knack for setting the record straight, that's for sure.

Barbara wrote: "Eden Halt: An Antrim Memoir, by Ross Skelton isn't in the Goodreads database yet. It's available here in the US via Kindle for $7.99 so I may buy it there. I am intrigued by this description from t..."

For some reason that term "dour Ulster Protestant way" made me think of the Marie Jones play "A Night in November" - the main character is a protestant who has been brought up in a very quiet, conservative household and taught to fear Catholics as being different - and the first time he goes to a Catholic's house (when he's an adult in thirties) he's astonished to see books in the bookshelf out of alphabetical order and some even upside down or on their side - something that would never happen in his quiet, orderly home.
Speaking of Marie Jones I recently went to see her play Stones in his Pockets in Bogotá - they had changed the village in Cork to a village in Antioquia and the actors coming in trying to speak English with an Irish accent (and failing) became Mexicans trying to speak Spanish with a Colombian accent - but apart from those few tweaks they stayed close to the original and it was amazing how well the humour translated.

Declan, I can say as a linguist by training, I defend the right of any language to be considered a language. I often quote a professor I had at Harvard (in case I am sounding big-headed, it was in their extension school:) who gave us the definition of language as a dialect with an army behind it. I use the Harvard bit because folks tend to give it more weight. But basically it is political power that determines what is considered a language. It baffles me why Mandarin and Cantonese which are not mutually intelligible by speakers of one or the other are often referred to as dialects of Chinese. I teach a course on Language Rights so I know more than necessary about language status.
I have met Irish speakers who scoff at the idea of giving status to Ulster Scots. Based on Allan 's comments they may be right as he points out no one really "speaks" Ulster Scots.In Patrick Taylor's books (really male-authored chick lit but I enjoy them) he uses lots of Ulsterisms from the 60's and 70's but they are not more than phrases and single words.

Caroline wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Eden Halt: An Antrim Memoir, by Ross Skelton isn't in the Goodreads database yet. It's available here in the US via Kindle for $7.99 so I may buy it there. I am intrigued by this de..."

I love the idea of a Marie Jones play in Bogota!! I also appreciate the failure to speak in different accents in Spanish. This is something they get wrong on American tv and movies all the time. I will never forget one time on the tv show LA Law when they had Jimmy Smits, who played a Mexican American lawyer, speak Spanish. He came out with pure Puerto Rican Spanish. It would be like someone speaking with a Bronx accent who was supposed to be from Georgia.

Marie Jones was here in Washington DC several years back and there was an absolutely brilliant production of her one-man show about the man (Ulster Protestant) who has a relevation that Catholics aren't awful - I think at a football game. I cannot find the name of it but it was one of the top 5 theater pieces I've ever seen.

Barbara wrote: "Declan, I can say as a linguist by training, I defend the right of any language to be considered a language. I often quote a professor I had at Harvard (in case I am sounding big-headed, it was in ..."

I can easily see your point, Barbara, but I'd still probably side more with Allan. Often when I travel to other English speaking countries I have absolutely no problem understanding the dialects and if I do it's typically down to accent as opposed to syntax or vocabulary. On the other hand I've worked in places where it took me days, or even weeks, to acclimatise to the workplace jargon which was far different from my usual use of English and was spoken by people from various geographical areas. Local dialects, to my mind, are often quite easy to get the handle of (except with certain parts of Scotland, particularly Glasgow) as where I've had more problems dealing with individuals' choices of speech. I've struggled speaking with people who grew up in Dublin because they used language quite abstractly, or used far to many puns or something else like that.

Did I make my point clearly, or did it just come across like the ramblings of an idiot? :/

Allan wrote: "Barbara-the name of the Marie Jones play you watched was the one that Caroline mentioned, 'One Night in November'. It was very successful over here a few years ago, and it's run with Patrick Keilty..."

At the same program on NI writers, Glenn Patterson and Lucy Caldwell presented. As much as I miss living in Boston, there are plenty of times that the Washington DC area is pretty awesome.

I wouldn't turn my nose up at the funding as schools can use any resources and ££££ that come their way. My university is federally funded (one of the few in the country). Shortly after the sequester in April,the university froze all spending until Oct. 1st, the beginning of the federal fiscal year. My printer ran out of ink, and my department ran out of paper so no more printing or xeroxing. I had to email students and ask them to copy things we needed for class activities. We were told not to tell the students but after a week I did anyway. I could go on and on but we didn't know how good we had it 10 years ago.

There are certainly groups and individuals who play the "culture" card and it happens everywhere. One of the ways that happens here is related to people saying they have Native American "blood" or heritage. Sherman Alexie, a writer of Spokane/Coeur d'Alene background, has commented that many of the people who do this either claim to be part Cherokee (the largest tribe) or some tribe that can't be traced. Recently I ran into someone like this who self-promotes herself as a Native American leader but is very vague about her own background - a grandparent who was supposedly from a tribe she can't remember and wasn't a registered member. Native Americans do what they can to push back against these "wannabes" but white liberals eat it up. I'm white, but describe myself as progressive and don't think I have to accept everyone's claims about who they are and who they represent.

Not to get even more off track, but many Americans still don't consider Northern Irish to be Irish. If you talk about the North, the culture, novels or other artistic works by Northern folks, they often will look puzzled, or say something about NI not being Ireland. Solas Nua, the arts group here, has done a lot to educate the Washington area community about all Irish culture.

I've only read Banks' Player of Games from that list and I often recommend it. I've added The Sparrow to my list from the article. Fecking Jesuits! Always meddling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/boo... (An article from the NYTimes about Trans Atlantic

Allan wrote: "I know some people in the group are big Sci fi fans-what do you think of these recommendations for people who aren't?

http://m.guardian.co.uk/books/booksbl......"

I don't read sci fi but I totally understand the appeal. I do like the fact that the premises of many sci fi books take on big social issues.

I'm a little snowed under. I'll have to get back to these articles later.

This is a great list Allan. I've already read (or listened to the audiobooks) : Canada ; Life After Life; Where You'd Go Bernadette ; Flight Behavior ; The Woman Upstairs; Gods and Beasts; Gone Girl; Beyond the Beautiful Forevers (still not in paperback in the US though it appears to be in the UK)

I got Bringing UP the Bodies for Christmas and it is definitely going to be read this summer. Want to read NW but now that Kanye/Kardashian have (has) named their baby that it kind of ruins it for me.Also want to read some James Salter, as well as Americanah. Instructions for a Heatwave is already on my "to read" list. Didn't know Roddy Doyle had a new book but The Guts is going on the list.

I used to depend on these kinds of lists a lot for summer suggestions but Goodreads has helped bring lots of books to my attention.

Sara wrote: "http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/boo... (An article from the NYTimes about Trans Atlantic"

That's probably the best review I've read of TransAtlantic, so far, and it still sounds very appealing in spite of Kakutani's reservations. I have to agree with her about the creative-writing-class flourishes. I hate this kind of writing and I often find it indulgent on the writer's behalf.

Allan wrote: "As this is the first day of my summer break, I found this list interesting to browse-I've only read 3 on it, and am probably only interested in about 2 more, but if you're looking for ideas of book..."

I've only read Gone Girl ans Life After Life. one I quite liked and found charming, the other one got under my skin and just annoyed me.

I've added The Guts to my list, too, Barbara. I won't be reading it any time soon, though. I'll wait until the cheaper paperbacks are released. I just spent €15 buying TransAtlantic and it burned a hole in my pocket. I added Dark Eden from that list, too. I love inventive sci-fi and this sounds like a winner.

@Barbar. Re: Sci-fi.

That was always the big appeal for me. And a good writer can lead a reader along by the hand and give a fresh perspective to an issue they may have deep biases for. The appeal for me with Dark Eden is the examination of how the origin myth begins to evolve over time into some grand, supernatural scheme. I can't wait to start it.

I have bought about 7 or 8 new books this month, and I am supposed to be economizing. Today I bought a hardcoverHoward Zinn: A Life on the Left by Martin Duberman. Doing my best to support independent bookstores. I have a friend in Dublin who is in her 80's. She and her American husband were friends of Zinn's. The husband got arrested with Zinn at a protest at the British Embassy in Boston back in the 70's. They exchanged letters for years up into the 2000's.

Allan wrote: "Ulster Scots as a language is the biggest joke you can imagine-in my opinion, it's just individuals from the Unionist community thinking that as the Irish language gives many an identity and cultur..."

I'm interested to read your post Allan. As someone who has both Ulster-Scots (Scotch-Irish as they say in the US) and Irish ancestry, I had a look at the Ulster-Scots language, as promoted by the Ulster-Scots Agency (aka Tha Boord o' Ulster Scotch). Their conclusions are that this language, also known as Ullans is a variant of Lallans - the language of the Scottish Lowlands, as spoken and written by Robert Burns - and that it travelled to Ulster with the Scots settlers and developed along its own path (as indeed did English in the USA). They also believe Lallans emerged from German originally though via a different route than did English and that, over time, it was suppressed and overplanted with English.

As a keen linguist myself, I have listened to recordings of Ulster-Scots speakers reading poetry and stories in that language and could pick out a number of German words which did not make it unchanged into English, eg 'Kist' meaning 'box', which became 'chest' in English.

You are right that there is some suspicion about this language and some have suggested the agency's promotion of it was as a response to the handout of EU grants for the promotion of the Irish (ie Gaelic) language. When last I took an interest in it, the Agency were complaining that their grants had been stopped.

Re the Belfast Blitz, I can thoroughly recommend Alrene Hughes' book 'Martha's Girls' which is the story of a Belfast family during the Blitz era. Alrene is a Belfast lass. In pursuing my research for my own book about my Titanic building ancestor(not easy as there are very few books about the lives of the H&W shipwrights and life in Belfast's working class districts back then) I was moved to see how little the skilled shipwrights earned and that their children sometimes died of malnutrition. I thoroughly enjoyed 'Sodabread' Sam McAughtry's (mostly out or print)books too, especially as some of my own Belfast ancestors get a mention in them.

Allan, I have read some of the books on the list. Of course, "Gone Girl" which surprises me as still being high on the list. I loved "Life after Life" and "Bringing Up the Bodies." Not on the list but quite good "And the Mountains Echoed." I also liked "Instructions for a Heatwave" and "Canada". Some of the books I have never heard of. It would be interesting to compare it to a list from the NY Times.
Barbara made me LOL about NW. It's amazing how much the Kardashians mess things up. I can't believe Kris Jenner is getting a talk show. How much crap can people endure?

Susan wrote: "Allan, I have read some of the books on the list. Of course, "Gone Girl" which surprises me as still being high on the list. I loved "Life after Life" and "Bringing Up the Bodies." Not on the list ..."

Kris Jenner - a talk show. Oh jeez. I am keeping the tv off and reading more. I'm even thinking of doing what more and more people are doing and getting rid of tv completely. The only things that keeps me tuned in are PBS and police dramsa (yeah, I'm a sucker for them).

Barbara wrote: "Kris Jenner - a talk show. Oh jeez. I am keeping the tv off and reading more. I'm even thinking of doing what more and more people are doing and getting rid of tv completely..."

I probably be getting rid of my television soon (or at least my TV subscription. My mother has a PC compatible TV that allows USB/laptops and other devices to connect and is excellent for watching movies.)

I can quite easily forget about police dramas and I know some great online sources for documentaries, but I'd miss comedy panel shows. I don't know how big they are in the states, but they're quite popular over here and the UK. It's a pleasure to watch funny and witty people being both funny and witty.

Most panel shows are almost entirely unscripted such as QI and Have I Got News for You, which has a host of guest presenters who've said they were shocked to find out it was unscripted. Another favourite of mine is Would I Lie to You which has to be unscripted by its nature. One show I bet Skinner was talking about, and on which he appeared, is Mock the Week which I never really enjoyed as it lacks spontaneity. There are certain parts of that show that I don't think would work if they weren't pre-prepared. I wouldn't be a fan of MtW, to be honest.

I, too, like police dramas, Barbara. I was very fond of "In Plain Sight" with Mary McDonnell. I liked "Major Crimes" with Kyra Sedgewick and just loved "The Following" with Kevin Bacon.
I am not sure if we have comedy panel shows unless you count "America's Got Talent" which has Howard Stern, Howie Mandel, Heidi Klum and one of those Spice Girls.
I do like Graham Nash's show and love his red chair.
I do NOT like the Khardashians, the Real Housewifes, Bridzellia Training School or whatever crap they market as reality. Maybe we really don't need a hundred TV channels.

By the way, Allan, I am a big football fan, American football. I live and die 49ers. Saw my first game when I was 3. I was the son my dad wished he had. I have a brother who hates sports. I am so over the top I almost spent $2000 on a Super Bowl ticket in New Orleans this year. I just left it too late to find a flight and hotel.

Panel shows usually consist of two teams in a trivial contest designed just to give the contestants a outlet for jokes and rants. QI and Have I Got News for You are two of best examples of this.

I love Graham Norton. His casual format makes for great entertainment and even if his guests somehow embarrass
themselves, it's usually only good for them.

Is The Following still being aired in the US, Susan? Sky aired a two-hour pilot over here and I never saw it again. I liked the Poe angle and Bacon and James Purefoy were both excellent.

Declan wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Kris Jenner - a talk show. Oh jeez. I am keeping the tv off and reading more. I'm even thinking of doing what more and more people are doing and getting rid of tv completely..."

I ..."

I can't think of any comedy panel shows on tv here but on National Public Radio (related to PBS) there's a hilarious show "Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me" which I think is the same kind of thing.

Susan wrote: "I, too, like police dramas, Barbara. I was very fond of "In Plain Sight" with Mary McDonnell. I liked "Major Crimes" with Kyra Sedgewick and just loved "The Following" with Kevin Bacon.
I am not s..."

I like the Law and Order series, The Good Wife, Blue Bloods, Chicago Fire etc. etc. And I LOVE Mystery on PBS. I also liked The Closer and The Following. Also the recent series with Kiefer Sutherland and his son with autism.

I cringe when I make these mental faux pas. Of course, it is Graham Norton not Graham Nash. Where is my mind going?
The Following did finish it's run here, Declan, and they are now rerunning it. I could not watch it aagain as I had some nightmares with it. I am sorry you only saw the pilot. It was a great series. James Purefoy was amazing. He was so despicable. If I met him in real life I think I would shudder. He should win an Emmy for his performance.
Barbara, we have the same taste in TV. The Good Wife is excellent and who doesn't like Tom Selleck? In anything.

Susan & Barbara.

I trust your taste and I was quite impressed by the pilot, so I think I'll download the firsr series.

@Susan. I was sure you originally posted Norton and not Nash. I need my eyes or my memory checked. :/

Susan wrote: "I cringe when I make these mental faux pas. Of course, it is Graham Norton not Graham Nash. Where is my mind going?
The Following did finish it's run here, Declan, and they are now rerunning it. I ..."

I know that Blue Bloods overplays the whole Irish American family thing, eating together every Sunday, and (of course) they're all cops. BUT it is true that in some cities, NY seems to be one, generation after generation serves in either the NYPD or NYFD. And we know those folks are underpaid considering what they deal with, and the high cost of living in the area.
I tell myself that the police, detective and law shows appeal to me because as P.D. James remarked, mystery lovers have a highly developed sense of justice. It's easier to get that in a tv show than in real life.

Declan wrote: "Susan & Barbara.

I trust your taste and I was quite impressed by the pilot, so I think I'll download the firsr series.

@Susan. I was sure you originally posted Norton and not Nash. I need my eye..."

I remember thinking "I didn't know Graham Nash was on a tv show". I have no idea who Grahm Norton is.

I STILL haven't seen The Wire. It was on one of the premium channels and I don't think Netflix has got it - but have to check. I loved Homicide: Life on the Street set in Baltimore. It was one of the best. Baltimore is a great city. I used to go often with a friend but she moved to Florida. I need to get myself there more often. I prefer it to Washington. Baltimore has a lot of character, ethnic neighborhoods ( Little Italy, Greektown, and the oldest Irish bar in Maryland). Lots of really good restaurants that are more authentic and must less expensive than DC.

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed season 1 too Allan. I've also stayed at the Belfast Hilton several times, though in a much less dramatic and more sedate fashion! I prefer the Europa, though, if there are no special offers on in either hotel, the Ramada Encore gives great value and great food. Belfast is such a walkable city with, as the great scribes say, a hill at the end of every street.

Allan wrote: "By the way, Barbara, the Baltimore of The Wire is a very different one to the Baltimore that you describe-if you do watch, it'll be interesting to hear whether you think the deprivation in the city..."

Just found The Fall on Netflix - yeah!
The Wire is considered to be a pretty true portrayal of the dark side of Baltimore. I have a friend who's an English professor who loves The Wire so I trust it's well worth watching. Checked my library and they still don't have it. I believe they told me they don't get TV series DVD's (I live in a snobbish county). The neighboring county library system has The Wire but it's a 10 mile or more drive to maybe get it. And Amazon charges 1.99 an episode.

Barbara wrote: "Allan wrote: "By the way, Barbara, the Baltimore of The Wire is a very different one to the Baltimore that you describe-if you do watch, it'll be interesting to hear whether you think the deprivati..."

Thanks for that recommendation, Allan. I have Netflix, and I can get it there. It looks like it will be a series to watch. Speaking of Netflix, I found a crime series called "Single-handed," and I liked it very much. It had a short run, I think, because there are only two seasons available on Netflix. It was about a police officer who returns home to the west of Ireland after being on the police force in Dublin. His father is the recently retired police officer for the town, so that adds to the complications.

Cathleen wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Allan wrote: "By the way, Barbara, the Baltimore of The Wire is a very different one to the Baltimore that you describe-if you do watch, it'll be interesting to hear whether you thi..."

'Single Handed' was made by RTE, I believe, and starred Owen McDonnell as Sgt Jack Driscoll. Irish noir.

D.j. wrote: "Cathleen wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Allan wrote: "By the way, Barbara, the Baltimore of The Wire is a very different one to the Baltimore that you describe-if you do watch, it'll be interesting to hea..."

I thought it was a really good series. Did they only make those two seasons? I wish they had made more!

Allan wrote: "Netflix is popular stateside I take it? Over here, it's still in its infancy, as indeed are its rivals, Lovefilm, BT Vision and SkyAnytime+. We have the last option, which comes with our Sky subscr..."

Allan, I think Netflix is pretty popular, and the other very popular option is the on-demand service with most cable channels. So you can either watch some program at a later time or with some packages, you can digitally record a program you want to watch that isn't included within the on-demand offerings. I think people really like both of those options, but I'm not sure how popular/extensive they are. Even "basic" cable gets quite expensive, so a good number of my friends don't even have it, either for financial reasons or personal (they either don't like much of what's on cable or don't watch much tv, in general). A good number say it's like that old Bruce Springsteen song, "Fifty seven channels and nothing on..."