Madam, want to talk about author Mary Stewart? discussion

Discussion for chapters 5 thru 8. Please comment on anything from these chapters, but remember to hide spoilers within a spoiler tag. Please note which chapter a spoiler is from so other readers will know if it is safe to "peek" or not. You do not have to wait until reading all of the chapters to comment, but please restrict your posts to content from chapters 1 thru 8. Enjoy!

Note: I am dividing the read into 5 sections, each 4 chapters long. I may adjust as we go, so check the chapter numbers for each section! :)

End of chapter 8:

Our plucky heroine has wandered (view spoiler)[right into the thick of things. I feel sorry for Sofia, and I worry about Mark and Lambis. (hide spoiler)]

Current cigarette count is very low.

End of chapter 6

The 2 scenes that our heroine comes up with about (view spoiler)[ why Mark vanished on the ledge show her vivid imagination:

"Mark was lying, throat cut, staring at the sky, while the murderer waited for me at the mouth of the cleft, with dripping knife..."

and even better

"The snake. That was it. He had been bitten by the snake. With hideous promptitude, the new picture presented itself: Mark, dead in (silent) agony, lying with blackened face staring at the sky..." (hide spoiler)]
What an imagination!

Those scenes were great! I could imagine how she felt, and how she could come to such conclusions!

It's interesting to see Nicola grapple with being a woman in a man's society -- and fitting, since this was written in 1962.

From Chapter 7: (view spoiler)["Ariadne bristled, with every intention, I saw, of doing instant battle. I intervened hastily, wondering, with some pity, at what age the Cretan girls are actually taught their place in the masculine scheme of things ..."

"He had wanted me out of it, and had made this abundantly clear ... and I -- who had taken my responsibilities for long enough -- had resented bitterly a rejection that seemed to imply a sexual superiority. If I had been a man, would Mark have acted in the same way? I thought not." (hide spoiler)]

Ashley wrote: "It's interesting to see Nicola grapple with being a woman in a man's society -- and fitting, since this was written in 1962.

From Chapter 7: "Ariadne bristled, with every intention, I saw, of doi..."

There were so many passages like that, I wish I had made a note of them. I don't believe any of the other MS books I have read have had a heroine who seemed to grapple so with this.

She grappled with it, and railed against it! :)

Jeannette wrote: "She grappled with it, and railed against it! :)"

Yep! :) And what I really appreciate is that Stewart let her have these strong convictions without turning her into a bitter, anti-male stereotype. (view spoiler)[Francis' teasing comments make it pretty clear that Nicola is still crazy about men! (hide spoiler)]

Yes! She is not a "rabid" women's libber, but she isn't a simpering, fainting type, either. Stewart writes strong, likable heroines. Maybe that's why we're still enjoying her stories 50 years later.

Jeannette wrote: "Yes! She is not a "rabid" women's libber, but she isn't a simpering, fainting type, either. Stewart writes strong, likable heroines. Maybe that's why we're still enjoying her stories 50 years la..."

I totally agree with the points made by the group about our heroine Nicola! Also so true as to why MS's books are still so enjoyable today!

Jeannette, it is so interesting that it is 50 years later, because so much of it feels very modern to me. MS has a way of writing that is timeless.

I also loved (view spoiler)[her tale of the Moonspinners, what a beautiful way to calm an injured and worried Mark. (hide spoiler)]

That was a very sweet scene, (view spoiler)[romantic in an innocent way. (hide spoiler)]

I loved that part, too, Michelle. It was neat to learn where the title came from. :)

I liked the way she referred to it again, later in the book (can't say when in this section!).

Although this isn't specific to this chapter, can I ask what a petticoat is? I imagined Nicola in pants with all that hiking about. Why would she have a petticoat?

She mentions later on that she is wearing a frock, so she's tromping around in a dress. Think Grace Kelly, rather than Audrey Hepburn. :)

Here's the cover of my edition:



I imagine her dress would have been shorter, but still below the knee.

I thought it was like a slip, but Wikipedia says they're meant to be seen. They're still undergarments that go under skirts or dresses, though. Apparently Nicola was good at running around the hillsides in pretty much anything!

Gosh, I must have read right through that petticoat reference, I don't remember it at all. Are you casting this for us, Jeannette? I like your choices so far ;)

She binds up Mark's arm with her petticoat, doesn't she? Don't all those virtuous heroines do so? ;)

I'm hoping Willow will help me with casting. Did you see her review of Madam, Will You Talk??

http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...

Ah, now I remember it. Just read those reviews, brings it all back!

She is really good with the older movie stars. I'm trying to picture who would pair up well with McAvoy. Today's actresses can't compete with the Hollywood stars of the 40s and 50s.

He played opposite Claire Foy recently, but I don't see her in Moon-spinners. I keep picturing her in Upstairs Downstairs. And she was kind of a baddie in it.

I'll have to put some thought into it. Maybe Rosamund Pike, or is she too pretty?

What, no nominations of Hayley Mills? ;)

Oh, Rosamund Pike would be wonderful! Nicola was supposed to be beautiful -- at least according to the jacket copy and certain male characters' reactions.

Ashley wrote: "What, no nominations of Hayley Mills? ;)"

:P hahaha

Ashley wrote: "Oh, Rosamund Pike would be wonderful! Nicola was supposed to be beautiful -- at least according to the jacket copy and certain male characters' reactions."

I'll look for a picture and post it tomorrow.

Ashley wrote: "I thought it was like a slip, but Wikipedia says they're meant to be seen. They're still undergarments that go under skirts or dresses, though. Apparently Nicola was good at running around the hill..."

I think Wiki must be talking about the seventeenth century! A petticoat is a slip, worn under a dress, and it is NOT meant to show (in fact, you were considered slatternly if your petticoat/slip showed). I think at the time the book was written they tended to be worn quite routinely, as a matter of decorum. These days they tend to be worn only if a dress is rather see-through without one, or would cling too closely (either because of the material or static electricity). Or if another layer is needed for warmth.

Ashley wrote: "Oh, Rosamund Pike would be wonderful! Nicola was supposed to be beautiful -- at least according to the jacket copy and certain male characters' reactions."

I agree - perfect casting. You may have seen Rosamund Pike as Miranda Frost in Die Another Day, or as Jane Bennet in the 2005 Pride & Prejudice (with Keira Knightley and Matthew MacFayden).

I would second HJ on the slip. I can recall back to my younger years and calling them petticoats.

Slip = American usage. Petticoat = British. At the time you could still get them made out of cotton so they tore into strips easily and made good bandages. Nylon, not so much.

Deb wrote: "Slip = American usage. Petticoat = British. At the time you could still get them made out of cotton so they tore into strips easily and made good bandages. Nylon, not so much."

A Mary Stewart heroine wearing cotton rather than nylon??!!

Cotton would have been better esp. in a hot climate. Cotton breathes, nylon does not.

Hj wrote: "Deb wrote: "Slip = American usage. Petticoat = British. At the time you could still get them made out of cotton so they tore into strips easily and made good bandages. Nylon, not so much."

A Mary Stewart heroine wearing cotton rather than nylon??!!..."

hahaha! Unthinkable! ;)

Deb wrote: "Cotton would have been better esp. in a hot climate. Cotton breathes, nylon does not."

I can imagine how sticky a nylon slip would be. And, it would be impossible to tear a strip off to use as a bandage. As long as she's not wearing a sensible cotton nightie, we'll concede a sensible cotton petticoat. :)

I bet she doesn't smoke in the film, either. (Just counting the MS tropes which are going missing.)

Hj wrote: "I bet she doesn't smoke in the film, either. (Just counting the MS tropes which are going missing.)"

Well, if we re-make it for 2013, I guess smoking is out. I can't picture Rosamund Pike lighting up. ;)

Thank you all!!! My curiosity has been satisfied and I learned a lot about slips. It was driving me crazy while reading because I couldn't picture it.

About halfway through chapter 7 and am about to unplug myself from the computer and go back to Crete. Will we get to see dolphins in Dolphin Bay, I wonder?

Okay, at the end of Chapter 8 Nicola sees a man beating an octopus and tells herself that a family will eat well that night. Beating an octopus? Is that really part of the procedure after they are caught?! We can buy them in the fish markets down here. I wouldn't eat one on a bet but now I am curious about how they should be cooked. Allrecipes.com here I come!

Edit: I googled and found this info, which explains why the man was beating his octopus: Frozen octopus actually has an advantage over fresh octopus because the freezing process helps tenderize the meat. If you are working with fresh octopus, tenderize it first by beating it with a meat tenderizer. Now I can sleep peacefully. ;-))

As long as the octopus was dead before he beat it! You learn something new every day. Thanks for researching, Debbie!

I'm impressed with Nicola's stamina. Quite a gal--running around those mountains, with or without her slip! I was also glad to see MS taking an explicitly feminist tack.

Beating octopi! Yikes. I haven't gotten to that yet. Something to look forward to. Meanwhile, I'd love to stay at that little hotel--though preferably without the killers.

Not too fond of octopus because they are tough little so and sos! (hence the beating!) - but squid Rings dipped in batter and deep fried, with lemon - delicious!! Of course it tastes even better sitting at a Greek taverna with the sound of the sea nearby!

Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "As long as the octopus was dead before he beat it! You learn something new every day. Thanks for researching, Debbie!"

Reminds me of a young man a few years ago went hunting octopus around here. He was legally able to hunt in the area he hunted it, but it was a very public beach, especially with the scuba divers who frequented the area to see them in the wild. He had quite a 'wrestle' on his hands, witnessed and photographed by many and posted all over social media. Probably not the wisest move that young man made.

Debbie wrote: "Okay, at the end of Chapter 8 Nicola sees a man beating an octopus and tells herself that a family will eat well that night. Beating an octopus? Is that really part of the procedure after they are ..."

That made me laugh so hard, Debbie! I can just see trying to beat a live octopus!

Ha! Just got to the octopus. MS does a great job in this section building the tension while still showing the beauty of the setting and the kindliness of the village people--an interesting contrast.

The irony of Nicola landing right in the middle of trouble when Mark wanted to protect her from it is delicious, but also scary--and Nicola is fully conscious of both sides. Yet she can't help going ahead. An impressive MS heroine.

Hana wrote: "Ha! Just got to the octopus. MS does a great job in this section building the tension while still showing the beauty of the setting and the kindliness of the village people--an interesting contrast..."

Isn't that paradox so ... normal?!?

MichelleCH wrote: "Jeannette, it is so interesting that it is 50 years later, because so much of it feels very modern to me. MS has a way of writing that is timeless.

I also loved [spoilers removed]"

I love the Moonshiners tale also!

Kathy wrote: "I love the Moonshiners tale also!"

Autocorrect fail? ;)

LOL

Moonspinners -- So should review before I post.

I tried doing some Googling to see if the myth of the Moonspinners was a true Greek myth -- but only turned up the movie & Mary Stewart's book. I wonder where she got her idea for the myth -- twas beautiful.