Chicks On Lit discussion

Hi everyone,

I'd like to read Doctor Zhivago by Boris Pasternak, but I think I need some help along the way! I'd like to try to start this the week of August 5th and aim to read 50-100 pages per week. Is anyone else interested?

I'd love to read this, but I've got a full reading schedule with all the group reads. If you can shoot for the lower weekly page read (50) I could probably swing it though. Would you mind?

I could do that. My reading pace has slowed so much that I'm probably looking at 50 pages a week goal anyway. We could also push back the start time to September or even October. I just want to start this one before the end of the year (and before it gets too cold- Russian winter and NY winter don't make good companions!).

I would love to join you! I've wanted to read this for a long time. I could swing a mid-August start (or September, or October...)

I don't mind an August start, I just need a slower pace so I can read it along with everything else I am committed to. :-)

I ordered a used copy today.

I am also interested in this one, but could not start in August.

When would be a good start time for you, Irene? I'm flexible.

Either the 3rd or 4th week of August. Of course, you could start earlier and I could catch up a bit late. If you only read 50 pages a week, I could catch up in no time. If you read 100 pages a week, it will take me a bit longer to catch up.

I'd like to try and join in with this. 50 pages a week sounds doable.

OK, using this copy: , here's the breakdown:

By August 11th read the beginning (I don't read introductions because I fear spoilers) to Chapter 2 "A Girl From a Different World" number 18

August 18th Chapter 2 number 18 to Chapter 4 "The Hour of the Inevitable" number 5

August 25th Chapter 4 number 5 to Chapter 5 "Farewell to the Old" number 10

Sept 1st Chapter 5 number 10 to Chapter 6 "The Moscow Encampment" number 12

Sept 8th Chapter 6 number 12 to Chapter 7 "Train to the Urals" number 30

Sept 15th Chapter 7 number 30 to end of Chapter 9 "Varykino"

Sept 22nd Chapter 10 "The Highway" to the end of Chapter 11 "The Forest Brotherhood"

Sept 29th Chapter 12 "The Rowan Tree" to Chapter 13 "Opposite the House of Sculptures" number 13

Oct 6th Chapter 13 number 13 to Chapter 14 "Return to Varykino" number 14

Oct 13th Chapter 14 number 14 to the end of the Epilogue

After that is the Poems of Yuri Zhivago. I assume it will make more sense to read them tucked somewhere in the middle of the book rather than the end, so we can adjust the reading schedule to accommodate those when it comes up.

If your edition doesn't have all the Parts, Chapters, and numbers like mine does, let me know and I'll try to explain the breakdown better. Each reading section boils down pretty closely to 50 pages per week, except for the last one, which is about 70 pages.

I have an old hardcover edition and those chapter/section breakdowns work just fine. :-)

My copy arrived today, so now it's all flagged with these dates and ready to go.

I'm always intrigued by the differences in translations or editions. For instance, just in the chapter names Jennifer noted, all of the ones in my edition seem to be slightly different - e.g., Chapter 4 "Imminent Inevitabilities," Chapter 7 "On the Way," Chapter 11 "The Forest Army," etc. I'm sure these minor variations won't make a difference to the discussion, just interesting to note how different translators word things.

I'm really looking forward to this!

Good to find this now. :)

I am currently reading the second chapter.

My edition is this one .

Glad to have everyone excited about this! We'll start discussing next weekend.

OK, so I'm trying to find some historical info without overloading you all. If you want to be overloaded, I suggest checking out this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revoluti...

The condensed version is that at the time of the start of our story, Russia was struggling with discontent in the agrarian, nationality, labor and educational sections of society. The farmers didn't own the land, the land they were given didn't produce enough to feed their families or pay their taxes. Russia had a policy of Russification, assimilating all other nationalities, and religions into a uniform Russian culture. Workers in Russia were the lowest paid in Europe, they could not unionize, and they could not legally strike. Schools became centers of revolutionary thought. As a result, universities were closed and students took to the streets in protest.

Over the course of a year and a half, many strikes and protests occurred and were put down. It's estimated that 14,000 people were executed and 75,000 were imprisoned.

Quick note on names:

It is obligatory for people to have three names: a given name, a patronymic, and a family name (surname). They are generally presented in that order, e.g. Vladimir Semyonovich Vysotsky, where "Vladimir" is a given name, "Semyonovich" is a patronymic (after his father's given name Semyon), and "Vysotsky" is a family name. A suffix (meaning either "son of" or "daughter of") is added to the father's given name—in modern times, males use -ovich, while females use -ovna

So how's everyone finding our first section?

Do you have any thoughts on our characters? Do you like or dislike anyone thus far?

Are there historical elements that are confusing?

I finished our first section last night, and am finding the reading interesting, though I cannot say the book has "hooked" me yet. It seems we are still getting an introduction, the main characters, the scenes, and backgrounds set up.

So far, what I've got, is we have a young boy named Yura Zhivago who is at his mother's funeral, and gets taken in by his uncle, the Nikolai Nikolai guy (these Russian names always confuse me). Then we see Yura's father commit suicide off of a train? (that was his father, right?)
And we have a girl named Lara who is having an affair with an older man.

I did get sidetracked last night, after finishing this weeks reading, because in part 9 of chapter two the book The Kreutzer Sonata by Tolstoy is mentioned as being read by Yura and the two teenage girls in the family he is staying with, and their mania for preaching chastity. So I had to go look for The Kreutzer Sonata, which you can find free for kindle on Amazon, and it appears to be pretty short, so I think I will read it just for some "fill in" to this era.

Thanks for the background synopsis and historical information Jennifer. I have a feeling I will be exploring more info of this era as we read this.

I don't think I'm hooked yet, either, Sheila. I think it's because there's too many names. The front of my book has a cast of characters, but only about half of the names that have been mentioned thus far are also listed up front.

I believe you have the gist of what's happened so far.

I think the most interesting part has been Lara's involvement with the lawyer. She was disgusted by this guy but now she's sleeping with him, and even she's not sure what changed.

Also, as to the history, I'm much more familiar with the more famous 1918 Revolution in which the Czar and his family were murdered. I'm sure we'll get to that.

Just finished this week's section. So far, so good, I think - though I'm of two minds as I read along. I'm finding some passages beautiful, and then others some leave me thinking, "Huh?"

I'm also intrigued by Lara's story, though it's making me a bit sad. I'm looking forward to the storyline getting back to Yura.

I second the thank-you for the background info, Jennifer!

Sheila wrote: " though I cannot say the book has "hooked" me yet...."

I read Dr. Zhivago a few years back and am following your discussion here with interest. I ended up loving the book. I think Pasternak was brilliant in what he did and brave for writing this book in the times & country that he lived in.
It does have a bit of a slow start and it is a different story than what I had expected it to be. Does anyone have an expectation of where the story may be going or what its about?

How's this week's reading going? I've only read about another 10 pages, but it's getting juicier. Lara's mom is a troubled lady, I say.

Petra, if I had to say, I'd guess it's about the history of the time, the revolutions and how it impacts the main characters. I also expect a love triangle (or 2?) developing between some of these characters. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised (though it can be confusing) how interrelated each character is to 3 or 4 others.

I also have read about 10 pages of this weeks reading, but I plan on knocking out more of it tonight.

I am expecting this to be a love story/romance set in the Russian revolution(that was always my impression of what this book was about). Other than that, I don't know. I do hope to develop a better understanding of the Russian revolution from this. :-)

Sheila wrote: "I am expecting this to be a love story/romance set in the Russian revolution ..."

This is what I was expecting, too, when I started reading the book. By the end, I thought it was something very different. I'm really looking forward to everyone's thoughts and ideas as I "listen" in on your discussion.

I'm not quite done with this week's reading, but here's a couple of questions:

Why does Lara's mom attempt suicide?

How has Yura's enthusiasm for purity affected his interpretations of what he witnesses in Lara's hotel room?

Jennifer W wrote: "I'm not quite done with this week's reading, but here's a couple of questions:

Why does Lara's mom attempt suicide?

How has Yura's enthusiasm for purity affected his interpretations of what he wi..."

I finished this week's reading last night.

Lara's mom's suicide attempt: Is it because of Lara's affair with Komarovsky? Komarovsky does seem to be a very dark chapter in Lara's life, as she then tries to kill him at party, but accidentally shoots the prosecutor instead.

I'm not sure about Yura yet. Both of these characters (Yura and Lara) seem like very sad people, with a lot of bad, dark, episodes in their lives that they are trying to survive and surpass.

I'm interested to see where this goes.

Where did Lara's relationship with Pasha come from? Apparently she's madly in love with him, but have they even been on the same pages together in the book before their wedding? Also, on their wedding night, they stay up late talking and she tells him about her affairs with the lawyer. Maybe that should have happened before the wedding?

I don't know where Pasha's relationship came from. There is a whole lot happening in this book in a short time, and I think I might be missing, or not understanding, major parts of this story. Does anyone have a Cliff Notes for this book? LOL

Jennifer W wrote: "Where did Lara's relationship with Pasha come from? Apparently she's madly in love with him, but have they even been on the same pages together in the book before their wedding? Also, on their wedd..."

Didn't they mention somewhere that he was her last escape route and she didn't want to alienate him? For the same reason,she wouldn't have wanted to tell him about her past,lest he change his mind about marrying her.She might have had insecurity issues,as her mom was not dependable and her brother was a shameless no-good guy.

They are mentioned to be grown up in the same locality ,so even though the author hadn't gone into details ,they had ample time to meet and fall in love.
And all those parts are like a prelude to the main story so that we get to know the past and connections of all the characters.

And all those parts are like a prelude to the main story so that we get to know the past and connections of all the characters.

Ah, so 100 pages in and I haven't gotten to the real story yet? That makes sense why not everything is spelled out, I'm just supposed to be getting the back story... Thanks Sherin.

Ah, good. If this is just all back story, then I don't feel like I'm missing so much. :-)

Back to the question of Lara's mother's suicide attempt, I assume it was because she found out about her daughter and the lawyer, but maybe it has to do with their loss of status as her workers went on strike and they had to flee, I don't know for sure.

I've just started this week's reading, and I managed to pick a good section to stop us at last time. Time has passed and WWI has begun. WWI was disastrous for Russian soldiers, and lead to the Revolution. I, personally, don't know specifically how and why it was disastrous, I just remember that the military wasn't happy with the Czar, and you don't tick off the people with guns who know how to use them!

I just started this week's reading last night, and have to agree that you picked an good section to stop. Interesting to now learn what has become of our main characters as time has passed.

War and the Revolution are in full swing. I'm having a hard time figuring out where the political sympathies lie for each of our characters. Zhivago's statements on Jews were interesting. Clearly he was in the minority there.

I believe the upstart commissar was on the side of the Czar, and he was trying to bring Revolutionaries back in line? Am I reading that right? He gets killed and Zhivago has to help sneak out his friend Gordon, because he, too was on the side of the Czar? I feel like I'm missing some bits of info.

Jennifer W wrote: "War and the Revolution are in full swing. I'm having a hard time figuring out where the political sympathies lie for each of our characters. Zhivago's statements on Jews were interesting. Clearly h..."

The Commissar was being stupid in trying to chide and get the 'wild' soldiers back in line. He got killed more because of his way of doing it than his intent.He didn't have an ounce of tact in him.

I guess Gordon had to be saved just because he was a Jew. At one point,Zhivago witnesses a soldier mistreating a Jewish old man just for the fun of it.Jews were apparently having a hard time there.

Gordon's a Jew? I though he was the one who told Zhivago that his thoughts on Jews were nonsense? I thought he said that the Jews refuse to play nice with others and get what they deserve.

:S I don't know.
But Gordon is a Jew.Chances are he won't say something like that.He feels bad about the way Jews were treated.
He was the kid whom Zhivago's father meets in the train before he commits suicide.

Well I am caught up for the week. Good job Sherin on knowing that Gordon was a Jew. I totally missed that. I have a hard time keeping the characters straight still. I had not connected this Gordon to the kid on the train. The story seems to be moving through time so quickly, and leaving out so many details, and using different versions of names for people at different times, that I am still mixing things up.

For me, for where we are in the story, I am just getting a feeling of the turmoil in the main character's lives. I feel I got a glimpse at their childhood, and a glimpse at their early adult life, and a glimpse at the history that is happening in Russia around them. And right now, I just see turmoil.

I just started this one; better late then never. I read the first 2 chapters and got a head ache. There are far too many characters each with a dozen names. And the sceens change so rapidly. I feel as if I just spilled open a jigsaw box and am trying to sort the pieces by some pattern.

Irene, the pieces do start falling together, but some of them do look like they've come from a different box!

I read chapter 3 yesterday, so I am catching up. I should be able to get through chapter 4 later today.

Sheila wrote: "Well I am caught up for the week. Good job Sherin on knowing that Gordon was a Jew. I totally missed that. I have a hard time keeping the characters straight still. I had not connected this Gordon ..."

That happens even further into the story, during the introduction of other characters. :)

Things start making sense eventually,though :p

I am caught up. Hurray!

Nice work, Irene! How are you liking it?

I am having a tough time keeping all the threads straight. I think I am tired and not reading as attentivly as I should. I like the way atmosphere is created. I feel as if I am watching the sceens through the blur of a blizzard. On one level, the edges seem soft and almost dream-like. But, on the other hand, the suffering caused by the war and subsequent lack of food and fuel is bitterly harsh. I have not connected with any character. In part, it is because we are moving between story lines so frequently. But, in part, it is the style in which the story is told. We watch it and are rarely inside the heads of any character. I think a modern western writer would put us inside the tormented feelings of one or more character. But, there is nothing so psychologically dramatic here. Lara's shooting is a perfect example. We know that she is conflicted by her sexual affair with this older man. But, then she breaks it off and gives signs that she will be able to move on with her life, enjoy a normal marriage. Next thing, she is shooting him at a Christmas party filled with people. Then she is sort-of convolescing. The emotions are rather down-played. The reader is entrusted to fill in the gaps.

I agree, Irene. Especially about the shooting. I almost thought she may have shot her dance partner because his father had once done something bad against the family (clearly, I can't remember...).

How are we doing on this week's reading? To be honest, I haven't even started it yet. I've had a very rough week at work and haven't had the energy. I hope to get to it today.

I have read about half of this week's reading, and hope to finish it tonight. I am glad we decided on only 50 pages a week. :-)

Time does seem to be zooming past in this book, with us just getting little glimpses and snapshots of each character's life along the way. The names are still a bit confusing to me to, especially when one character can be called by 3 or 4 different names throughout the book.

I have read ahead. I am afraid to pick up anything else while reading this one or to let time pass for fear I will forget characters or thread lines. I feel as if my grasp of what is happening is a bit shaky.

I hear you, Irene. Picking it up last night after only a week away and I had to go back a few pages to remember where I was and what had happened. Unfortunately, I don't have the mental energy to plow ahead.

I'm not quite finished with this week's reading. I did get to the dinner party. I'm not sure what I think about Zhivago's old friends feeling sheepish (for lack of a better word) about their loyalties, professions, and stations in life. Also, could someone please remind who Markel is?