Glens Falls (NY) Online Book Discussion Group discussion

I know there are thousands of explanations about the origins of words and/or phrases.

I'm starting this topic as a random collection of some especially interesting word/phrase origins.

RE THE EXPRESSION: "to a T".

Example: The colors of your suit fit you to a T.

"It's actually a shortened form of "to a tittle", an expression in use in English by the early 17th century, with the meaning 'to the smallest detail.' "
See more here:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/to_a_T

Nice idea ,Joy. There is a site I use--Online Etymology Dictionary. com. Lots of fun---but there are several such sites. Just google the phrase "word origins".

Btw, when you say a child is the "spitting image" of his father, the phrase was originally "spirit and image" and just became changed over time.

I see a lot of arguments over some of these origins, but whether they're right or not, they're always interesting.

Rule of Thumb: In England it was illegal to beat your wife with a stick bigger around than your thumb.

Thanks, Mary JL. I think the link is:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php

More about "spitting image" here:
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/sp...

Jim wrote: "... Rule of Thumb: In England it was illegal to beat your wife with a stick bigger around than your thumb."

LOL - What were they thinking? :) Amazing that the wives didn't object.

Jim is right about arguments over some word origins; in some dictionaries you will find two or three theories about the same word.

To suggest one book,Heavens to Betsy!: And Other Curious Sayings is a favorite of mine.

Mary JL wrote: "... To suggest one book, Heavens to Betsy!: And Other Curious Sayings ..."

That sounds like a good book, Mary JL. Thanks for suggesting it. I've requested it at our public library.

Not origins, but I didn't know where else to put this.

ARAPROSDOKIANS... (Winston Churchill loved them) are figures of speech in which the latter part of a sentence or phrase is surprising or unexpected; frequently humorous.

1. Where there's a will, I want to be in it.

2. The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it's still on my list.

3. Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

4. If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

5. We never really grow up, we only learn how to act in public.

6. War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

7. Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.

8. They begin the evening news with 'Good Evening,' then proceed to tell you why it isn't.

9. To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research.

10. Buses stop in bus stations. Trains stop in train stations. On my desk is a work station .

11. I thought I wanted a career. Turns out I just wanted pay cheques.

12. In filling out an application, where it says, 'In case of emergency, notify:' I put 'DOCTOR."

13. I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

14. Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with a bald head and a beer gut, and still think they are sexy.

15. Behind every successful man is his woman. Behind the fall of a successful man is usually another woman.

16. A clear conscience is the sign of a fuzzy memory.

17. You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.

18. Money can't buy happiness, but it sure makes misery easier to live with.

19. There's a fine line between cuddling and holding someone down so they can't get away.

20. I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

21. You're never too old to learn something stupid.

22. To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

23. Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

24. Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

25. Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

26. Where there's a will, there are relatives.

27. I'm supposed to respect my elders, but it’s getting harder and harder for me to find one now.

Jim wrote: "... ARAPROSDOKIANS... (Winston Churchill loved them) are figures of speech in which the latter part of a sentence or phrase is surprising or unex..."

Jim, is the word "paraprosdokian"?
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapros...

ETYMOLOGY (from the Wiki link above): "Paraprosdokian" comes from Greek "παρά", meaning "against" and "προσδοκία", meaning "expectation". Canadian linguist and etymology author William Gordon Casselman argues that, while the word is now in wide circulation, "paraprosdokian" (or "paraprosdokia") is not a term of classical (or medieval) Greek or Latin rhetoric, but a late 20th-century neologism.

PS-In any case, I enjoyed the list! Thanks! LOL

Could be, Joy. It was a joke email I got. I never take them too seriously & didn't bother to really read the word. Never heard of it before, either. English is too weird.

Jim, I had never heard of the word before either.

Jim: I wish I could have met Winston Churchill---he would have been fascinating to talk with.

There is a story that some language purist criticized him for ending a sentence with a preposition. Churchill replied " This is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put". LOL>

He was a hoot.

I agree, what a fun list; some of it too true.Speaking of religion as we have been in one form or another; one thing that has puzzled me is you often hear the expression, "Thank God," when a tragedy has been averted(children saved from burning house etc) but you never hear of God being blamed if it doesn't work out that way(children aren't rescued) If we thank God for our blessinings and therefore assume he is responsible for things turning out right why isn't he to blame when they don't? I asked our priest this question once and his answer was,"You won't know the answer to this question until you die."

Nina, you've hit on one of my pet peeves with religion.

Nina wrote: "... I asked our priest this question once and his answer was,"You won't know the answer to this question until you die."

Nina, that was a good answer the priest gave! A SAFE answer! LOL

Speaking of good/safe answers from members of the clergy, see the anecdote below. (It's off-topic but seems to fit here anyway.):
====================================================
"The abbe was asked if he believed in hell.
He replied:
'Yes, because it is a dogma of the church - but I don't believe anyone is in it.' "
====================================================
From: The Little, Brown Book of Anecdotes, p. 415, re: Abbe Arthur Mugnier (1853-1944), French divine.

MEANING & ORIGIN OF: "THE BUCK STOPS HERE" (President Truman's Desk Top Sign.)
=========================
'The buck stops here' derives from the expression 'passing the buck' meaning passing the responsibility on to someone else. 'Passing the buck' is in turn comes from frontier poker games where the players used a knife with a buckhorn handle as the dealer's marker. A player who did not wish to deal could pass on the responsibility to the next player, thereby by passing the buck - as the marker came to be called.

A colleague of President Truman, Fred M. Canfil, a United States Marshal for the Western District of Missouri, saw a sign with the inscription 'The buck stops here' while visiting the Federal Reformatory at El Reno, Oklahoma. Canfil asked the Warden if another sign like it could be made for President Truman. The sign was made and sent by mail to the President on October 2, 1945.

ABOVE IS FROM: http://www.heritageinstitute.com/lead...
=========================

Wonder what the origin is for: "One for the money, two for the show, three to make ready and four to go?"

How about the word, "slowpoke."

Good questions, Nina. To find the answers to your questions, go to Google and enter "Origin of _________"
Sometimes that works.

If you find out, perhaps you might post the answers here.

PS-I found an answer here: http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_bo...

PPS-I found another answer here:
http://superbeefy.com/where-does-the-...
http://www.steevithak.com/2005/08/26/...

PPPS-Here are the Google hits:
https://www.google.com/#q=origin+of+O...

https://www.google.com/#q=origin+of+s...

That is fascinating about Jane Austin's Sense and Sensibility and ther origin of slowpoke. Thanks for tracing it. One more question/where did the word "conniption" come from? and I ended with a preposition.

Sad to say but I think our language is no longer colorful.

Nina wrote: "That is fascinating about Jane Austin's Sense and Sensibility and ther origin of slowpoke. Thanks for tracing it. One more question/where did the word "conniption" come from? and I ended with a pre..."

Nina, see: http://etymologynow.blogspot.com/2010...

Fun description. Actually, I used this word frequently when my children were young and one of my daughters still laughs about it and says she never has heard anyone else use it.

I was impressed by the following at the above-listed link:
============================
"Back in the 1960s my sister's favourite phrase was "so and so had conniptions." She was studying nursing at the time and one of the doctors told her that "a conniption" was originally a stroke. That would tie in with the idea of palsy/paralysis, and the idea that a hissy fit could bring on a stroke."
FROM: http://etymologynow.blogspot.com/2010...
============================

I haven't heard the word "hissy fit" in years. But that's a good reminder to keep one's emotions under control.

I now remember hissy fit and I hadn't heard that for a while.

Another word I am wondering it's beginning is "gumption."

and what about "pushing up daisies?" I also think it's interesting that the people in Yourkshire, UK say "anyroad, for anyway."

Nina wrote: "Another word I am wondering it's beginning is "gumption.""

http://www.word-detective.com/2008/04...

Nina wrote: "and what about "pushing up daisies?" I also think it's interesting that the people in Yourkshire, UK say "anyroad, for anyway.""

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_bo...

I typed Yorkshire wrong.

Interesting about pushing up daisies.

Nina wrote: "Interesting about pushing up daisies."

Yes, it's a great euphemism!

Liked the explanations about "gumption." I am now wondering why there are two seemly the same names for the institution of getting married/Matrimony and Marriage. Aren't they exactly the same? I read once that Matrimony was the more sophisticated sounding word. Do you agree, Joy?

I prefer the word "marriage". Matrimony rhymes with baloney. :)

Joy your comment brought me the first smile of the day.

Where did the saying "tan your hide," start?

Nina wrote: "Where did the saying "tan your hide," start?"

Nina, I couldn't find much. Found this at "Yahoo Answers":
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"Best Answer: It refers to beating you. A tanner is a person that treats animal hides. I don't know all the fine points of tanning, but it might require beating the animal skin to soften it? Anyway, that's where the saying comes from.
FROM: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...
===========================

Joy, I took a test of words and sayings on Facebook to determine how "southern" you are and they said only one in fifty persons qualified and "tan your hide" was one of the sayings. Actually, I got that I am one hundred per cent southern. I think I probably grew up that way as that was before they call where I now live the Midwest. It never was referred to that way when I was young. Midwest then meant IL, MI, IN, PA Ohio etc. NOT MO...Oh well,

Nina, that's interesting about the distinction between southern and mid-western. Times change.

Thought of an interesting word this morning; "rambunctious," and wonder how it got started.

Nina wrote: "Thought of an interesting word this morning; "rambunctious," and wonder how it got started."

Nina, see:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?t...
and
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?t...

I checked it out. Thanks. I have in my mind that it means/lively. Here's one more "slowpoke." And pigeon hole.

Nina wrote: "I checked it out. Thanks. I have in my mind that it means/lively. Here's one more "slowpoke." And pigeon hole."

http://www.onelook.com/?w=slowpoke&am...

http://www.onelook.com/?w=pigeon%20ho...

Joy, thanks for looking these words up for me. I guess I never used pigeon hole in the same context as cubby hole and I remember seeing so many dovecotes in France. When I used to be writing essays and short stories my husband was my proof reader and he would say my only trouble was that it looked like I would gather commas together and throw them at my manuscript and they landed wherever they may...He was good at correcting my mistakes.

Yes, Nina, proof-reading and editing are skills in themselves. They say that Jackie Kennedy was a good editor. The book, Reading Jackie: Her Autobiography in Books by William Kuhn made a big impression on me.

This "word" column is fun as some of these old fashioned words or sayings seem lost in today's vernacular.