James Joyce Reading Group discussion

Hey folks,

I've tried to clean up the folders a bit to allow the posts to be a bit more organized. Now our rants can be organized by each of the books. Unfortunately, the system wouldn't let me type in a folder entitled A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man (too many characters!)....so...

I also created a folder the short works, which could include Poem Pennyeach, Chamber Music, Giacomo Joyce, and even Stephen Hero.....

Should there be a separate folder for Joyce's Critical Writings?

If you would like to discuss a certain critical study of any of Joyce's books, go ahead and post those in the folder of the book that is being examined.

Cheers!

If you're new to the group, or have merely been taking time off from posting, say hello, introduce yourself and say something about what you enjoy about Joyce's writing!

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

Hello all!

hi davis!

Aussie chick signin' in ... I am a Joyce virgin - bloody hell where do I start?

i'd read dubliners first. let me know when you pick it up, i'll suggest a few stories.

thanks for dropping in, sam i am! it's nice to see you here.

Hello all, this is a great group! Only second to World Cinema group - not really, just kidding :)
Anyway, very informative! Thank you all.

Sam wrote: "Aussie chick signin' in ... I am a Joyce virgin - bloody hell where do I start?"

DUBLINERS! I made the mistake of reading portrait first :(

Dubliners it is then ... my mission in the morning / for the weekend (how lovely to have purpose!)

i don't think reading portrait first off was a mistake.
whatever gets you into the joycean universe....
i tried to read ulysses first...that was a mistake.

i wasn't ready for it. it took years of reading other stuff to really be prepared to deal with that book. i'm not saying you can't read it from start to finish and skim the really difficult parts and enjoy the experience - that's probably the best way to read it the first time. but i just got bogged down in how different the language was from anything i had ever read before that.

Hi, all.

I read Portrait first, and agree that wouldn't be a mistake (and am pretty sentimentally attached to it, actually). I think it depends on individual preferences and what types of works you tend to gravitate toward. Portrait and Dubliners are both good to read before Ulysses, though.

I've been reading here lately, but haven't been reading any Joyce lately, so haven't had much to say. Really like all the organization that's been going on, so I figured I should peek out and show my appreciation by saying hello.

thanks stephanie! i appreciate the check-in.

i think i'm going to open this discussion group up to include writers that were contemporaries of joyce, and also for writers that were influenced by joyce (which is a lot...). so feel free to post anything you think is related to joyce's writing.

Phillip wrote: "i don't think reading portrait first off was a mistake.
whatever gets you into the joycean universe....
i tried to read ulysses first...that was a mistake.

i wasn't ready for it. it took years of ..."

I read Ulysses first.
Although my head exploded and I was somewhat confused, it was one of the most wonderful things that ever happened to me in it opened up a vast world for me. You can do this with writing???!!!???

(God bless Mrs. Noonan, our high school librarian who kept a "secret" copy of Ulysses for anybody that would take an interest.!)
I'd suggest Dubliners first, but sometimes life happens!

Hi there, I'm new to the Joyce group - are there no current discussions or am I looking in the wrong place? As a very mature student, I've just completed a Joyce module and am searching for a 'gap' in Joyce studies for my dissertation. I have already written an essay on advertising/Colonialism in Ulysses and one on sexuality/psychology and the 1909 letters.There are some very interesting postings on this site, but I just wondered if there are any recent topics? Maybe a retired professor or Joycean who might have some ideas??

i>Evelyn wrote: "Hi there, I'm new to the Joyce group - are there no current discussions or am I looking in the wrong place? As a very mature student, I've just completed a Joyce module and am searching for a 'gap'..."
Hi Evelyn,

This is sort of a catch as catch can group. We get postings on U FW D POTAYM. It's sort of when somebody is reading something we get postings.

Philip (who founded the group) will often pop in.

I'm a Joyce fan. Not a scholar.

Ulysses has been pretty combed through.
If you want to stick with that, let me know what interested most you when you read it, and maybe I can make a suggestion.

On the other hand. Have you thought of doing Finnegans Wake? (This might depend on your time frame; it takes time to read.)

The good news is that Finnegans Wake is inexhaustible. The bad news is that you sort of have to read Finnegans Wake; that's also the good news. It's a splendid, challenging book.

I did a Finnegans Wake review you might find helpful. I am currently re-reading Wake (I have lost track, I think the 5th time) now in a book club that is doing a really close reading. Here's our blog:
http://finniganswakesantacruz.blogspo...

One word of warning: the book has so many layers of meaning that it is tempting (and easy) to "force" any arbitrary meaning into the text--since you an always find some excuse for your interpretation; despite being in a unique style, it does tend to have some diffuse focus, so you need to convince the reader you have found some theme that is important.

Ed wrote: "i>Evelyn wrote: "Hi there, I'm new to the Joyce group - are there no current discussions or am I looking in the wrong place? As a very mature student, I've just completed a Joyce module and am sear..."

Hi Ed,
thanks for your reply. I thought I'd attempt FW when I have the time, after my dissertation. I followed one of the links in the group, and found Joyce reading FW himself (it was a bit scary!!). I understand the theme is one which I believe runs through his work from 'The Dead' onwards,that of the unfaithful wife and cuckolded husband. I must admit, to me his work is strongly autobiographical,and appears to stem from insecurity over his relationship with Nora.The father/son dimension also seems obvious and has been much discussed.Your review and blog are very incisive, but I'm hoping to get going on my dissertation asap so it will have to be Dubliners, Portrait and Ulysses mainly.My problem is it's all interesting.
From reading Ellmann's biography,I got a feeling that Joyce's life was similar to John Milton's; talented fathers,gifted childhood, huge egos,unconventional relationships with women,determination to create literary history,isolation,chronic eye problems and the creation of an epic based on historic literary framework - there seem to be a lot of parallels that I think I will look into.If you have any suggestions they will be gratefully received, but just reading your hard work has been inspiring. Thanks again.

Evelyn wrote: "Ed wrote: "i>Evelyn wrote: "Hi there, I'm new to the Joyce group - are there no current discussions or am I looking in the wrong place? As a very mature student, I've just completed a Joyce module ..."

Oddly enough I am currently reading Philomena....

That gives me the idea that you could explore Joyce's relation to the power of the Catholic Church. This is a theme that is custom made for you as it spans Joyce's entire career!

Some very (compressed) ideas:

Joyce saw himself as a (non-believing) Catholic writer.

The powers of the Church in Joyce's mind would include:
1. psychosexual/psychological (fears, psychological repression)
2. personal (contraint, conformity)
3. political (meddling in politics, political repression)
4. dogmatic (counterfactual belief system)
5. spiritual/aesthetic

I would suggest that Joyce wanted to junk 1-4, and achieve something very like 5. He said (you'll have to search for the quotes) that he wanted to achieve something like the Catholic mystery of transsubstantiation, but by elevating everyday life, and without the baggage.

Some themes from Dubliners, Portrait, Ulysses you could mix in:
simony/simon/nobodaddy*/eagle puck eyes-apologize/clongowes/hell sermon/jejune jesuit/bird-woman-angel/lapwing-fallen-angel/bloom-mass-aesthetics/kneel-prayed-for-mother

* William Blake used the term "Nobodaddy" to refer to the "God" that is nobody's heavenly father--a god of sickness, slavery, subservience, and repression. True and false fatherhood is connected to the theme of dogma vs aesthetic/spiritual. The crime of Simony (corruption of ecclesiastical office) is connected to the earthly (worldly) father, Simon. (Simon was also Peter's former name, he was 1st Pope and also committed the crime of denying Christ 3 times.)

Now cuckolding is maybe something that hasn't been covered at length. You might consider that Molly's soliloquy a a decuckolding of sorts, where (in the Homeric parallel) the suitors are killed off in her fantasies and a return to her husband and life as it is.

Hi, I'm an avid Joyce fan, just embarking on a M.Phil. Research project on the subject of "Drunken men & bargaining women in Joyce's prose writing. I'll be delighted to share my ideas and reflections on the works of The Bard with fellow Joyce enthusiasts!

Hi! Welcome! I'm a Joyce fan too, and I'm working on the interrelationship between the works of Jacques Lacan and James Joyce. My M Phil was also on Joyce. So I'd be delighted to know about your work on Joyce as well.

Ed wrote: "Evelyn wrote: "Ed wrote: "i>Evelyn wrote: "Hi there, I'm new to the Joyce group - are there no current discussions or am I looking in the wrong place? As a very mature student, I've just completed ..."

Ed, loads of great ideas. I've written about J's feelings toward the Church in my essay on the commercialism which I argued J believed was supplanting religious control. Currently I'm researching Joyce and WW1, as it is 100 years exactly that Europe's (specifically Germany's)attitudes precipitated millions of people into WW1;attitudes I will argue Joyce exemplifies in 'Cyclops' as the misguided nationalism of the Citizen.I will also discuss the use of Epic form, which is not simply a framework but another criticism of heroic/outmoded ideals, sentiments which Joyce may also be attributing to the abandonment of peace and rush to destruction.The fact that Bloom is the pacifist as well as part Hungarian, part Jewish can also be fit into this scenario, which foreshadowed WW2 and are issues still dominating the world today (Gaza/Palestine specifically). Does this sound plausible? I haven't run it by my supervisor yet, as I'm still researching, but if you Joyceans out there think it's a bit thin, I can re-think it. Thanks for all the great comments.

Hi, I'm new to the group. I'm interested in any discussion of any of the books: especially ULYSSES.

Evelyn wrote: "Hi there, I'm new to the Joyce group - are there no current discussions or am I looking in the wrong place? As a very mature student, I've just completed a Joyce module and am searching for a 'gap'..."
I always seem to show-up a year or two too late, and miss all the fun. I'm a thirty year Joyce enthusiast, who goes very much against
the trend of most Joyce scholarship. I've read all four major books
repeatedly and would love an opportunity to share what I have learned.

You are definitely in the right place. As older than a very mature student you will enjoy this group. We don't always agree but we enjoy each other even as we take a different tack. Welcome to a re-re-readers forum.

Thank you, Fred. Your the only one so far I've heard from, maybe in time.... I read ibsen's GHOSTS the other day, I can't say it's going to be my favorite, still prefer Hedda Gabler. Waiting on the arrival of the Stranger - I bought the cheapest used copy, something about a "new" american translation...hope it's not too terrible. (the translation, not the book).

I agree with you about Hedda. Don't be too discouraged. Some of our group take long phantasmagorical recesses in nighttown.

Thanks for the encouragement. It's more frustration, I think.
This is the third or fourth Joyce/Ulysses site I have frequented and i always
seem to have just missed the big dance (well by a year or two).
But I'm obsessed with Ulysses, so I'll just keep surfing.

Have you tried the JJQ facebook page? Or even subscribing to the JJQ magazine. I got my first issue and it was fabulous. It had an 18 sonnet version of the whole of Ulysses.

Fred wrote: "Have you tried the JJQ facebook page? Or even subscribing to the JJQ magazine. I got my first issue and it was fabulous. It had an 18 sonnet version of the whole of Ulysses."
Some good ideas. I don't do anything besides goodreads. I tried
"Quora" for a couple of weeks and then got in a disagreement with one of the big poohbahs there (about Ulysses, of course) and they started deleting some of my response so I quit. I subscribed to JJQ for a couple of years back in the early 2000's. It's expensive. They also seem to be "drying-up" they're like 3 or 4
years behind with new issues. Many of the old guard are dying off. One of the issues I did get was a 40th anniversary which had a complete index of everything they had published up to 2004.
And I do have access to project Muse which is suppose to give me
access to JJQ archives, but I've never managed to use it very well.
(My computer skills a rather restricted.)
So, this has made me think a little maybe I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for...

I understand all of your comments and agree with them all. I am going to work with JJQ for a while.

Cool. So you're getting it at a news stand? or a subscription? or you get it on the internet? What issue are they on? Have you read
any Kiberd? What do you think of him?

I subscribed and actually have talked to them a couple of times. You are correct issues are quite late when they come out but hell Ulysses is in 1904 or 1922 take your choice. I plan to go to Tulsa for Bloomsday next year. I do like Kiberd. Have read very little.

please feel free to discuss or start topics! it's true my time is pressed and don't tend to post much anymore, but i started it because there wasn't a group for joyce and his work is ripe for discussions.

if anyone wants to start a thread i'll try to keep my eyes open and respond. thanks for showing up. the more people push the words around, the more new activity will follow (i hope).