Jane Austen discussion

Mr Elliot is behaving suspiciously, a very interesting conversation takes place whist a very important (and wonderful!) letter is being written bringing on a very perfect ending :)

I think Austen erred in blackening Mr. Elliot so thoroughly. He could have served his purpose in the plot without having such a poor character. And as for his disrespectful attitude towards Sir Elliot, isn't that exactly what we think of the foolish baronet?

Well... this novel needed a scoundrel, a real one, that could be compared with Wentworth. I mean... the Captain made mistakes and somehow misused both Louisa and Henrietta in a way that can be compared, for instance, with Frank Churchill in Emma. He realized his mistakes in time to make amend and, let's say this, things turn right for him just for a matter of luck.
I think that Jane Austen wanted to put someone who knowingly plotted and schemed to show the difference between mistakes made in bad faith and mistakes made in good faith.

Oh... and for Mr.Elliot attitude towards the Baronet, I agree. He says out loud what everyone thinks but, if he was fair, he wouldn't have sought the Baronet's society in such an hypocritical way.

I agree with Marren. I think that we needed Mr Elliot to be a true scoundrel. You are right about Frank Churchill as well.

Their behaviours are quite similar but the results are very, very different!

The last few chapters show who some of the characters really are to the core. I really do not care for Sir Walter but I do not appreciate Mr. Elliot's two face way of his sudden interest in the Baronet title. "Mr. Elliot is evidently a disingenuous, artificial, worldly man..." chapter 21. Elizabeth, just like her father, focuses mainly on the outside of a man and his rank. See how she was quick to accept Captain W in Bath, he had "air and appearance." Mrs. Clay we are sure if she was converted by Mr. Elliot or he converted her. It in the end it was a pleasing journey to follow.

Miss Austen is very clever and hiding the true nature of some characters for quite a while and even to the very end (Wickham, Willoughby, Thorpe etc) this takes skilful writing and I enjoy follow the journey of the characters progression. Elizabeth is so shallow...

Certainly.

I still feel a little sorry for Elizabeth, however shallow she is, she will live to regret it when her father dies and she has to rely on the kindness of her sisters… Mary will probably be the only one able to offer her a home and she will make sure Elizabeth feels gratitude for her kindness, and the superiority of her position. She could marry of course, but the book implies that she does not.

I can’t say I feel any need to redeem Mr Elliot’s character, rather I would like to see Sir Walter marry and have a son, to cut both him and Mrs Clay out of the inheritance. In fact it seems that only Sir Walter and Elizabeth suffer from the events (although at first only their pride and vanity are harmed), not the more culpable characters; Mr Elliot will still inherit, Mrs Clay will likely become Lady Elliot, Lady Russell is to be forgiven by Captain Wentworth, and Mrs Smith will get all that can be done for her, done by Captain Wentworth instead of Mr Elliot.

I include Mrs Smith because whilst she meant no real harm to Ann, she would have let her marry Mr Elliot if to further her own claims… I tend to think a better friend would have warned her or tried to warn her, whatever the consequence… or at the very least not tried to recommend the match. Still she had been kind to Ann as a child when she expected no return, and had been soured to the world since, so perhaps she had already earned her friendship.

I suppose we ought to feel sorry for Elizabeth, but I admit I find it difficult after her shallow behaviour.

Mr Elliot will still inherit, yes, but do you think Mrs Clay will likely become Lady Elliot? Can you not see Mr Elliot dropping her?

Mrs Smith is an interesting character but I do think she had already earned her friendship with Anne. Anne was lovely to her as she had fallen on hard times, but I am glad Anne still tried to care for her.

I wouldn't be surprised if Elliot did end up dropping her, but the book suggests she had a chance of convincing him to marry her... in either case I'm sure she'll land on her feet :)

I don't dislike Mrs Smith, I just think she should have told Ann the truth upfront.

I do agree about Mrs Smith - she should have told her.