Everything Booklikes & Leafmarks discussion

Just curious - on the Feedback group the notion of a boycott has been tossed about. Does anyone know if it's gone beyond talk? The GR Powers That Be probably wouldn't care, but if the 300+ people signed up on this thread plus any other "power users" who can be brought in all logged off and stayed off for a couple of days, I think it would be noticed.

I haven't been following the Feedback thread too closely now but do recall seeing mention of that. But unless I missed posts, there appears to be some lack of clarity (agreement?) re: purpose and scope. Also, right now, people are preoccupied w/ getting their data over to BL and then confirming that everything imported OK. Which would require simultaneously log on to GR so to compare, no?

I know the librarians are talking about quitting since they don't get paid and since GR apparently doesn't give two shits about all the work they do keeping this site running smoothly.

Karma♥Bites wrote: "I haven't been following the Feedback thread too closely now but do recall seeing mention of that. ..."

It was early yesterday, I believe. The idea was mentioned but not picked up by much of anyone, iirc.

Linda wrote: "They want us gone, and they want us gone in a way that doesn't reflect badly on them. ..."

Then if we go we all just need to make sure the circumstances are quite clear...

Nenia wrote: "I know the librarians are talking about quitting since they don't get paid and since GR apparently doesn't give two shits about all the work they do keeping this site running smoothly."

I was never really a high volume librarian anyway, but I'm not going to do any more database maintenance for them. Why should I? They've dumped on me, let them maintain their own damn site.

I think Librarians should definitely picket and top reviewers should stop posting reviews until we get some communication.

Hard to organize when the majority of the people here don't even know what's going on though. Which is most likely why there's been no site wide announcement ...

Stefani wrote: "I was never really a high volume librarian anyway, but I'm not going to do any more database maintenance for them."

I would say I am (I mean, 9000 edits would be seen as "high volume," right?) and I'd like to imagine they'd care if I stopped editing and fixing and uploading all of a sudden.

If all the librarians and all the top list reviewers left tomorrow neither Goodreads nor Amazon would care. Goodreads new function is to be the Kindle online book site firstly, everything else after that. Reviews will be picked to show the most positive ones, copy writing essentially, from reviewers that sell a lot of books, ie. those getting a lot of publishers' freebies.

Also, the dependence/importance of librarians lessened greatly upon re-import from Amazon, no? I mean, many things still require manual fixing but... *shrug* Just know that I'm done.

If anyone's active on the Librarians' group, would you consider putting up a post about the situation? I'm a librarian, but not in the group. At the very least, word should be spread a bit.

You mean some people here are still working for free for Goodreads?

Regarding boycott, I've been talking with a few people and have met with mixed support. Part of the problem is coordinating so many people, and everyone having varying levels of comfort or the issues that are most important to them.

My proposal is to make next week--Sept. 29 to October 5 protest week. Protest as often as you can, in the way that you feel comfortable.

Suggestions:

1. Write a review that should be flagged because it discusses author behavior and not the book
Examples: Manny's Mein Kampf review
Ceridwen's review of Touched: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Moira's Mein Kampf review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
Stephanie's review of Vonnegut (does not discuss the book): http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
my review of Extraordinary: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17...
2. Flag others' reviews that are meant to be flagged
3. Create shelving that should be removed according to the policy
Example: Nenia's Mein Kampf review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
4. Post daily updates referencing the issue or referring people to the thread
Example: Richard's status with pic: http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...
Jen's status update: (making the rounds right now):
http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...
5. Keep the Goodreads Feeback Announcement thread alive with objections about the silencing
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...
6. Post a protest profile picture
Example: Emily May: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/46...
7. Tweet/blog/Tumblr and everything else, and link back to the threads, post on status updates--
this is a nice compilation: http://hiddenreviews.tumblr.com/
8. Voluntary blackouts--such as not using GR for book-related purposes or not posting reviews
9. Flag, flag, flag
10. Boycotting librarian work, with a message/post/status you are doing so
11. Boycotting giveaways, with a message/post/status you are doing so
12. Pick a book about censorship or about banned books and write a review about Goodreads' new policy.
mark's sarcastic review: http://www.goodreads.com/review/show/...
I thought Unlearning Liberty: Campus Censorship and the End of American Debate sounded appropriate.
The classic: Civil Disobedience and Other Essays

That's the stuff.

The mods here should post in the Feedback thread that they want this group to be a featured group!:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...

;-)

Thanks so much for the suggestions, Carol! I think there are plenty of suggestions and methods for us to get involved.

I definitely agree about the Librarian thing. I only have 51 edits, so I'm not awesome, but I am not going to do anymore edits for the foreseeable future.

I'm still #10 in the all time librarians list, I think, but since the Amazon announcement I've done very little, and since this I've done only things I want correct, but I think I'll give up on even that, even for "my" books.

ETA: Yep, I'm #10 all time with 78194 edits. I was the #1 librarian for years.

*bows*

I have my protest picture up:

http://www.goodreads.com/photo/user/1...

I don't really think a boycott will work without some sort of press coverage. They probably wouldn't even notice unless you could get a few percent of GR users to participate.

Some of Carol's ideas could work. I kind of think it's worth showing people how to subvert the new rules without actually breaking them. I can't even remember what the guidelines say but if authors behaving badly shelves are out, perhaps shelves called "spam filter" or "abuse filter" would be OK. Not really sure.

We can't discuss the author in a review, I wonder if we can discuss their behavior without mentioning them.

I put up my protest photo too.

http://www.goodreads.com/photo/user/1...

Stop laughing, that is real duct tape.

Lisa wrote: "The mods here should post in the Feedback thread that they want this group to be a featured group!:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...

;-)"

I already did....

Nice, Freebird and Lobstergirl!
To be clear, Ian, I'm not suggesting a 'work around' to the rules. GR is taking the unpaid labor of love that is the site, monetizing it and changing terms and guidelines to suit financial needs, and not dialoging with mbers about it. I sincerely doubt my reviews or shelves were ever flagged, but you can bet I'm creating them now, in solidarity of the idea that people's reviews can be used how they want, within certain bounds.

Feel free to suggest more ideas or people who are looking for flags. I'll make a central post and start pm'ing it when able so that this can spread.

Linda wrote: "Nenia wrote: "I know the librarians are talking about quitting since they don't get paid and since GR apparently doesn't give two shits about all the work they do keeping this site running smoothly...

They should. Now. Immediately. What's in it for them? "

Maybe it's just my imagination but it seems like librarian work has really slowed down. Not as many librarians jumping into threads to solve problems, initial posts going unanswered for longer periods.

It's too bad there will be some innocent victims, but needless to say GR brought it on themselves.

Carol wrote: "I'm not suggesting a 'work around' to the rules. GR is taking the unpaid labor of love that is the site, monetizing it and changing terms and guide..."

I didn't mean to suggest you were....if it came across that way, sorry.

Lisa wrote: "The mods here should post in the Feedback thread that they want this group to be a featured group!:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...

;-)"

Such a great idea! I went over and gave +1!

Lobstergirl wrote: "Linda wrote: "Nenia wrote: "I know the librarians are talking about quitting since they don't get paid and since GR apparently doesn't give two shits about all the work they do keeping this site ru..."

I'm not fixing anything in the librarian group, not even reading it, and not posting GR authors to merge. The only librarian work I'm doing is fixing books I personally own, in order to keep my calibre database tidy.

That and purging sales crap out of (inevitably SPA) book descriptions, because honestly, if we have to abide by these new nebulous rules, authors should abide by the clearly stated and longstanding ones too.

(ETA: I'm currently number 12 most active librarian, and a) I haven't done anything substantial in a week, b) I've gone up a rank in that time, and c) I can see people above me in the list that I know are also not doing librarian tasks, because they've said so.)

Just stumbled across a book that is not in the goodreads database!

I'm resisting adding it. It hurts.

Why do you do this to us goodreads!?

P.S. I'm not a very active Librarian but when I stumble across things that bother me I fix them. It just becomes an instinct, you know?

I like the idea of a boycott where everyone logs off for a couple of days and see how things go from there.

Alright, I'm on board. I wasn't at first since it reminded me so much of those gas station boycotts that never work, but (and I'm so sorry I forget who) made a great case for it in The Thread That Ruined It All.

I'll spend the weekend on BL I think. I need to tinker with it more.

~♥*Marianna*♥~ wrote: "Just stumbled across a book that is not in the goodreads database!

I'm resisting adding it. It hurts.

Why do you do this to us goodreads!?

P.S. I'm not a very active Librarian but when I stumble across things that bother me I fix them. It just becomes an instinct, you know? ..."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Marianna,

As a fellow GR Librarian, I fully echo your sentiment.

We should all get the word out first and pick a day to start and end. The more people at once the better. It should be organize in some way to have a better chance of having an impact.

Huge thanks to all the librarians who worked to make this site as amazing as it [was]! ^_^

Wow, I never realized before how useless I was as a librarian. Oh, well. I'm moving to BookLikes. And, as I get settled there, I will ultimately be deleting my account here. I don't really have the time to screw with this, so I'll probably be closing out during next week.

Previously I've never felt possessive, but once GoodReads started deleting, I became acutely aware that this is my data and I will not leave it here to be messed about with against my preferences.

I shouldn't think that a boycott of the site would make GR care, unless it was by thousands of people and even then I doubt they would care. They are really only interested in four things from us -

1. that we provide data for them to use (librarian stuff) but Amazon can provide all of this for the books they sell,
2. that we provide data for them to sell (pref. linked to an Amazon or Facebook account so they have our names and addresses),
3. that we provide free advertising copy (reviews) to promote their product, and
4. that we continue to buy from Amazon, especially Kindle books which are far more profitable for them than print.

If any of these are affected in a major way they might take notice, but how to do it? It would need a thousand or more people to actually make a noticeable difference to their figures.

I personally think we can do a thousand or more. The outrage is growing every day. We should do something! I'm up for anything. Either stop writing reviews in mass or something else like that.

I'm more up for spreading the information to more users.

Does anyone have more ideas?

I've posted an update: http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...

And I'm in for any organised boycott.

~♥*Marianna*♥~ wrote: "I'm more up for spreading the information to more users.

Does anyone have more ideas?"

1. Invite all your friends.
2. Post a notice about this site in the groups you are on.

I've invited 41 people to this group so far with this message:

In case you haven't seen the latest controversial change in (censorship) policy announcement from GR HQ, here it is: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

Shelves and reviews about authors can and will be deleted, especially if they're about badly behaving authors. Many are protesting against this change, but some are also leaving GR completely.

Here is an abbreviated summary of events so far: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

The most popular GR alternative option is BookLikes: http://booklikes.com/

They are planning on making many changes to appeal to GR refugees: http://blog.booklikes.com/post/344083...

If you are interested in joining BookLikes, then this group will help you set up your account and find your friends who've left and deleted their GR accounts all ready.

If you're not interested, please ignore my invite and I apologise for spamming you.

Ames

Feel free to copy and paste.

Carol wrote: "Regarding boycott, I've been talking with a few people and have met with mixed support. Part of the problem is coordinating so many people, and everyone having varying levels of comfort or the issu..."

+1

Honestly, a full out blackout won't work for me personally, especially since I'm setting up shop at BL. I need to hop back and forth.

ETA: I will/and have been doing everything else listed here.

Okay. I invited all my friends who haven't been invited yet.

But looking at this group's front page it's not at all obvious that there is a reason we all are talking about Booklikes!

Does it seem like that to anyone else?

I did a status to keep the Feedback thread alive, but I'm a veeeeery small fish, so not sure what it will do.

Amy or "Ames" wrote: "I've invited 41 people to this group so far with this message:


In case you haven't seen the latest controversial change in (censorship) policy announcement from GR HQ, here it is: http://www.go..."

Ooh. Your message is better. Dammit, I didn't notice it!

My eyes are swimming from reading all those pages of discussion... they really know what they're doing by trying to contain it all in one place. Grrr.

Carol wrote: "Regarding boycott, I've been talking with a few people and have met with mixed support. Part of the problem is coordinating so many people, and everyone having varying levels of comfort or the issu..."

I don't think there are enough informed people to do an effective boycott. Especially not in one group.

I'm still focused on figuring out Booklikes and spreading the word.

LuvGirl wrote: "We should all get the word out first and pick a day to start and end. The more people at once the better. It should be organize in some way to have a better chance of having an impact."

The trouble is people pop in and out, but we have to make it timely. Which is why I suggested next week.

Does anyone have reviews or suggestions to add to my list above in message #15?
Otherwise, I'm not working this weekend. I'll take the time to PM a couple of groups I'm in, as well as the top 50 of the US Best Reviewers. I think if we get the word out this weekend to start asap/Sunday, we'll see it spread.


Personally, I'm not doing a full black out, but I usually post 2 reviews a week, give or take. I've been reading, but I'm going to put them up at wordpress/booklikes and not post them here for a little while. My 'black out' is a review hiatus. I don't care about the rankings. I'm also not "liking" things this week (although I am saving my updates) to help reviewers choose not to support GR by providing content.

I think that a boycott is destined to fail. This is a site of (apparently) 20 million members. The critical mass that we would need in order to make an actual impact is probably well outside of our ability to motivate. They just won't notice a mass log off of 2000 people, because with 20M members, there are probably 1M log ons/off in a day.

In terms of a long-term protest, however, convincing active members NOT to review and provide them with free content would potentially have an impact. A dearth of people participating in R2R programs on groups would also have an impact - if authors can't find people to review their books, they're going to complain. And GR wants to sell packages to authors, and the ability to connect with readers who might review their books is a huge part of their marketing to authors.

Also, getting the librarians to stop working for GR for free will mean that they potentially have to hire new staff to replace the free labor. Because 19,999,970M of those members are casual users who check their account once a week, and there is no way they are giving GR their free assistance to update the database.

If authors start having to wake weeks for fixes to their book pages, GR will hear about it in decreased purchasing of their author marketing packages.

So, those are my thoughts. For what they're worth (if you combine them with a couple of bucks, you can buy yourself a cup of coffee).

Lisa wrote: "I'm still #10 in the all time librarians list, I think, but since the Amazon announcement I've done very little, and since this I've done only things I want correct, but I think I'll give up on eve..."

Thank you, Lisa, for all your edits.

I think a boycott is needed. and not only because of the policy changes and the fact that some users still don't know about it.

but also because GR have this really annoying habit of doing changes/modifications/maintaining and not mentioning it at all.

Moonlight Reader (fka Christine) wrote: "In terms of a long-term protest, however, convincing active members NOT to review and provide them with free content would potentially have an impact. A dearth of people participating in R2R programs on groups would also have an impact - if authors can't find people to review their books, they're going to complain. And GR wants to sell packages to authors, and the ability to connect with readers who might review their books is a huge part of their marketing to authors.

Also, getting the librarians to stop working for GR for free will mean that they potentially have to hire new staff to replace the free labor. Because 19,999,970M of those members are casual users who check their account once a week, and there is no way they are giving GR their free assistance to update the database.

If authors start having to wake weeks for fixes to their book pages, GR will hear about it in decreased purchasing of their author marketing packages."

+1

Since last Friday, I haven't added any books, made any librarian edits, or written any reviews of the books I've read.

I would also add: boycotting the giveaways section, though it would be hard to stop people from trying to win free stuff.