19th Century Epic Romances discussion

I'm so happy! I wanted to read some Austen around the holidays!

Please post your comments regarding "Persuation" here:

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message 111: by Carol
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Persuasion is a great book! (I think I know it by heart.) It is one of my favorites.
It is great that it will be the "December read," since Jane was born on December 16, 1775.

I just read by Jane Austen which has quotes and parts of letters that Jane wrote to family and friends, especially her sister Cassandra. Jane had also made a big impact on author Walter Scott who wrote -- "she had a talent for describing the involvements and feelings and characters of ordinary life which is to me the most wonderful I ever met with."

My favorite Persuasion film is the 2007 version with Sally Hawkins and Rupert Penry-Jones.
Trailer (1:44) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5K7_f...

Thanks Carol!
I hope you don't mind if I copied your post to put here - it has such good information to start reading with.
I just added this book to my To Read list and will download the 2007 movie.
Persuation is my 2nd favorite novel(after P & P)because it seems almost like an autobiography to me.

I've read Persuasion twice and I'm more than delighted to read it again!

Terry wrote: "message 111: by Carol
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(last edited 15 hours, 59 min ago) (new) 16 hours, 15 min ago
Persuasion is a great book! (I think I know it by heart.) It is one of my favorites.
It is gr..."

I liked the movie but I HATED the final kiss. My sister and I were rolling with laughter when we watched what was supposed to be a passionate kiss turn into a face-devouring spectacle. I LOVE Ciaran Hinds in the older version.

I have already begun to read Persuasion. I look forward to the discussion coming up in December.

Jane Austen was born on December 16, 1775, at Steventon near Basingstoke, the seventh child of the rector of the parish. She lived with her family at Steventon until they moved to Bath when her father retired in 1801. After his death in 1805, she moved around with her mother; in 1809, they settled in Chawton, near Alton, Hampshire. Here she remained, except for a few visits to London, until in May 1817 she moved to Winchester to be near her doctor. There she died on July 18, 1817.


Jane Austen House Museum, Chawton, Hampshire, UK


The quilt that Jane made. --http://www.jasa.net.au/quilt.htm#make

As a girl Jane Austen wrote stories, including burlesques of popular romances. Her works were only published after much revision, four novels being published in her lifetime. These are Sense and Sensibility (1811), Pride and Prejudice (1813), Mansfield Park (1814), and Emma (1816). Two other novels, Northanger Abbey and Persuasion, were published posthumously in 1818 with a biographical notice by her brother, Henry Austen, the first formal announcement of her authorship.



Persuasion was written in a race against failing health in 1815-16. She also left two earlier compositions, a short epistolary novel, Lady Susan, and an unfinished novel, The Watsons. At the time of her death, she was working on a new novel, Sanditon, a fragmentary draft of which survives.

Jane Austen and Her Times, 1775 - 1817 by Geraldine Edith Mitton --
I will read this biography since I know Persuasion by heart. (YES!! I have read it that many times!!)

I just watched the 1995 movie with Fiona Shaw, Amanda Root, Ciaran Hinds and John Woodvine - was not impressed - I actually found it a little vague and boring.

Marcia wrote: "Terry wrote: "message 111: by Carol
comment history
(last edited 15 hours, 59 min ago) (new) 16 hours, 15 min ago
Persuasion is a great book! (I think I know it by heart.) It is one of my favor..."

Which one was Ciaran Hinds?

I wasn't familiar with any of the actors in that movie except the influential neighbor that lived nearby - loved her outfits, especially the hats! Was that Fiona Shaw?

Ciaran Hinds was in the 1995 adaption.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114117/

I am not familiar with that actor, what part did Cirian Hinds play? The male lead? He was gorgeous!

Hmm, I have read the book at least twice, but it has been awhile. I am already on chapter 8!! I like that Anne Elliot the star of the book is a more mature lady of 26.
I am reading the kindle version. I think that the only movie version I have seen is the 1995 one.

Terry wrote: "I am not familiar with that actor, what part did Cirian Hinds play? The male lead? He was gorgeous!"

YUP. Omg. Swoon. Be still my heart. I found he played a far more convincing Captain than the other guy on the new version.

Hmm...I wonder if Netflix has the '95 version.

There is a really cool video on youtube A Thousand Years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EKcFj...
This features the 2007 version of the movie. Why did I not see that one? Have I been under a rock all these years. Oh wait that was when I was studying for my BSN and didn't have a life. LOL. Missed a lot of books and movies for a 5 year period.

I think that Rupert Penry-Jones in the 2007 British t.v. version is pretty hot!!!I geuss I missed it because it was made for British t.v.

Patty wrote: "There is a really cool video on youtube A Thousand Years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EKcFj...
This features the 2007 version of the movie. Why did I not see that one? Have I been under a r..."

That looks wonderful I am going to have to watch this version Thank you Patty!

It's very quiet here! I guess everyone is out shopping.

I've been so busy with work and family the past week. I'm also trying to finish another book for another GR group before I really get into "Persuasion". I read the book years ago, saw the movie recently and downloaded the "Audible" version to listen to soon.

I am at the halfway point in the book. So far it has been a delightful read!

I have read eight chapters already!!

It seems as though everyone has finished reading Persuasion.
Here are a few Q & A to discuss if you are interested and have the time . . .

Overview --


Twenty-seven-year old Anne Elliot is Austen's most adult heroine. Eight years before the story proper begins, she is happily betrothed to a naval officer, Frederick Wentworth, but she precipitously breaks off the engagement when persuaded by her friend Lady Russell that such a match is unworthy. The breakup produces in Anne a deep and long-lasting regret. When later Wentworth returns from sea a rich and successful captain, he finds Anne's family on the brink of financial ruin and his own sister a tenant in Kellynch Hall, the Elliot estate. All the tension of the novel revolves around one question: Will Anne and Wentworth be reunited in their love?

On the most basic level Persuasion is a love story, both interesting and entertaining, rich in intrigue and romance. On a deeper level it examines human foibles and societal flaws. The question of the importance of propriety is raised frequently, as is the issue of appearance versus reality.

Readers of Persuasion will discover Austen's talents on full display: her skill for delicate, ironic observations on social custom, love, and marriage nor her ability to apply a sharp focus lens to English manners and morals.


Q & A: Feel free to answer as many as you would like . . .


1. Sir Walter is disturbed because he doesn't like the way his "heir presumptive" has acted in the past. Why do you think he can't just leave his money, title, and estate to his daughters?

2. To what extent do you agree with Sir Walter on the value of rank and consequence?

3. What do you think led Anne to acquiesce to her family's wishes? Should families have a say in whom their children marry?


4. What does the book illustrate about how naval men view women? What assumptions are they making about women?



5. Captain Wentworth and Anne are constantly in each other's company. What keeps them from speaking honestly to each other? Would you invite two people who had once been engaged to the same social gathering? Both the Captain and Anne are very polite to each other. How might things be different today?



6. The Crofts are portrayed as one of the few happily married couples in the novel. What is it about their relationship that seems so different from the other relationships portrayed in the book?



7. What seems to make Mary happy? Why might women at the time of the novel have focused on such things?



8. What does Anne's relationship with Mrs. Smith suggest to you about Anne? How does her father react to these visits? Why?



9. Captain Harville claims men do not quickly forget about the women they love while Anne claims the same for women. Do you believe men and women differ in their capacities to love and in remaining true to the one they love?


10. Austen writes of Captain Benwick: "His reading has done him no harm, for he has fought as well as read." What does this statement indicate about what was important at this time? To what extent have attitudes changed in our time?



11. Anne believes she was right to be "persuaded" by Lady Russell not to marry Captain Wentworth when he proposed years earlier. Explain her reasoning. Do you agree with her?



12. Austen wrote Persuasion as her health was failing, hurrying to finish it before her death. Do you find the novel's narrative carries any sense of urgency or sentimentality, or any other indication of what the author herself was going through as she wrote it?


13. What was Jane Austen most critical of in her society? What are you most critical of in the modern world?

Thanks for posting the questions Carol! I will have to review them later when I have time to think about my answers -

I'm happy to do it. (I love to post images and Q&As). I just thought I would post in case anyone was interested, or wanted to discuss the book. (I know this is a busy time of year!!)

Hello, I have been a member of your group however just NOW checking in. Goodread's emails keep coming.
I will not be reading Austen with you, when I read her again it will be a reread of S&S. The Emma T. S&S
is my favorite film of the Austen books to film. I am a member of the North America Jane Austen Society
And a life-time member of the Charleston, SC affiliate Palmetto Persuasion which I joined at it's inception 17
Years ago. I miss that group a lot because I have moved to another state, however I visit CHARLESTON often.
I live in Asheville, NC.

The biggest question for me about Anne's character lies in the title. Was she right to be persuaded by Lady Russell? Or does that really make her as weak as Wentworth seems to think?

They're such open-ended questions, and I think a little unfair on Anne as well. She'd lost her mother and was trying to conduct herself in a way she believed her mother would have approved of (something which she clearly sought, because she remembers her mother as the calm and rational parent). Lady Russell was the closest to a mother figure at that point, not to mention that she'd been a close friend of Anne's mother, so Anne clearly believed that Lady Russell would have known what her mother wanted.

I suppose Wentworth was just a little too hot-headed. After all, Anne didn't mean to fully reject him - she only wanted to wait until he was more established.

And who knows? Lady Russell might have been right. Had they gotten married, Wentworth might have found it difficult to support both himself and his wife. It's only because he had no ties that he was able to throw himself into work so recklessly and go wherever work took him. He might not have been able to do that had he been with Anne.

In the introduction (of the Penguin Classics edition) they include some excerpts from Austen's letters outlining her reluctance to give her niece, Fanny, advice on whether to engage herself to a potential suitor or not. Apparently Austen believed it was too important a decision for her niece to allow herself to be swayed by others' opinions. That kind of undermines everything I said in the above paragraph though - does Austen think Anne should not have let herself be persuaded? Was Anne's decision ultimately her own, just taking into account the guidance from her good friend? Doesn't refusing to be persuaded also constitute of refusing to listen to advice?

The theme of Persuasion is JUDGMENT.

Persuasion begins with the heroine, Anne Elliot, who is 27 and still unmarried. Her path crosses with the former love of her life, Captain Wentworth, who is now a rich naval Captain. When Anne was 19 she was engaged to Mr. Wentworth, a young naval officer. But her mentor, Lady Russell, persuaded Anne to end the engagement because he lacked wealth and she didn’t think he would be able to provide a good life for Anne. On his return this is a reversal of fortune. Anne’s family’s wealth has dwindled and Wentworth is a respectable captain and is significantly wealthy. But being in the same social circles, Anne soon realizes that Wentworth has not forgiven her for rejecting him, and he resents her. Anne deeply regrets her rejection as she watches Wentworth move on and become more attached to someone else.

Lady Russell meant well, but her pride stood in the way of Anne and Wentworth’s happiness. She believed she was right in telling Anne to reject him. Because of her pride, Lady Russell was firm in her criticism of the engagement, and Anne trusted her opinion. This allowed Lady Russell to easily persuade Anne.

Wentworth knows that if he had been able to forget his pride he would not have felt so hurt and bitter. Pride allowed him to see only what he wanted to see. We make judgments based on emotions, and then justify our actions later. Wentworth’s pride clouded his judgment, and allowed himself to be persuaded. he also persuaded himself not to talk to Anne, and this created suffering that he now regrets. When you cannot get over your own pride, you end up hurting yourself.

Anne’s was not strong enough to stand up to Lady Russell. If she had been strong-willed, she could have saved her and Wentworth years of anguish. Instead she became a victim of regret by allowing herself to be persuaded by Lady Russell. Anne trusted her as a figure of authority. But Lady Russell is very judgmental -– she saw Wentworth from a lower class; she persuaded Anne that class and wealth were more important than love, resulting in Anne’s rejection of Wentworth;

Sir Walter and Elizabeth are so consumed with trying to improve their status in society that they sacrifice everyone else’s happiness by being rude to those who have done nothing to merit such treatment. They also do not want a member of their family to tarnish the family name. The vanity of the upper class persuades people to believe that they are above the lower class.

There are some characters in Persuasion that do trust Anne, but they are not in the family. After Louisa Musgrove is injured in a fall on the Cobb at Lyme, only Captain Wentworth sees the truth. “But if Anne will stay, no one so proper, so capable as Anne.” This line is the turning point of the novel for our heroine. As readers we have never doubted Anne’s judgment; we were just not sure until this moment if Captain Wentworth did.

Was Anne right or wrong to be persuaded out of marrying Wentworth at age 19? In light of the fact that she regrets her decision; it seems that she would have been happier to have married him. Life as a woman scorned for making a poor decision would have been no picnic either. Woman of this era were followers not leaders and expected to make marriages to benefit their families welfare, not for love.
If Wentworth followed societies rules of marriage he would not marry her since her family has lost their fortune.Thank goodness he follows his heart.
Not many people are given a second chance at love. Anne in the end is the big winner. She finds love, status and fortune.

There are so many different ways to look at Anne's decision for not marrying Wentworth at 19. Should she, or shouldn't she have done it? I feel like for her it was a necessary choice, (or we wouldn't have a story). She was young, naive, and easily influenced by her family. Its not until time passes, and she sees Wentworth again that her decision begins to really weigh on her heart. Sometimes when we are young, we cant see the affect those choices will have on our lives in the long run. Her reasons behind her refusal are more telling. I feel like in the beginning her choice shows her weakness to be influenced by her family and not regard her own feelings. In the end, she matures (they both do really), and regards her own heart in matters, ignoring what her family or anyone else has to say in the matter. I don't think she could have made that choice in her younger years. It's just great it worked out for her the way it did. In real life people are not usually as lucky.

Jen, that's so true that Anne wasn't mature enough to make the decision herself when she was younger. There was also the element of the unknown - would Wentworth succeed in his ambitions?

I just wanted to say that I enjoyed reading this book with you guys and reading your thoughts on it. I plan to read the next book also and I look forward to joining in again!

Thanks Patty!