RiseUp! discussion

The climate may be changing, but we are not cause. This world-- this universe is very much beyond our understanding.

Have you heard of global cooling?
Back in the fifties, the "scientists" believed the Earth to be cooling, and they thought a second ice age was going to occur.

Back in the days of the Romans, the climate changed, and it became too cold for the Vikings to survive in the North. So, the migrated south and became another thorn in the Roman's side, helping to cause Rome's fall.
There were no oil rigs, no S.U.V's, no nuclear anything. Yet, the climate still changed.

I believe that the Earth-- like everything else-- exists in cycles and seasons. Whatever change is happening is a natural occurrence; not man made. Only God has power of the Earth.

That's not to say that I support wastefulness or polution.
I believe we should good stewards, absolutely.

Well, I would like to point out that in greenhouses they take the CO2 up to about .50 density, and that the density of CO2 in our atmosphere is about .03. (I'm not sure of the exact number here) so if CO2 gases are really all THAT bad why do they ramp them up so high in greenhouses?

Plants take in carbon and release oxygen, and humans (and every other animal) breathes in oxygen and expels carbon. So we are also "polluting" the atmosphere just by breathing!

Also you will notice that the people behind "global warming" are now calling it "climate change". WHY? because they now know that we aren't about to "melt all the ice on the earth because of the emissions".

I also think that we should take good care of the earth that God gave us, I am a rancher. So I know how to take care of the land and animals that God has given to us.

Well that's My two cent's worth!

I agree with climate change. I have seen sufficient data to prove it to me.

And Joshua, they put CO2 in Greenhouses because plants need CO2 for photosynthesis...
Your point doesn't really work.

If by rancher you mean a cattle herding person, it may interest you to know that the modern cattle is not one of God's creations. (Apart from the lack of a God to create them, I mean...)
We created the modern cow, through selective breeding, so they would be a better food source.
God had no input there.

Awesome. An intellectual. Another rarity.

Bill wrote: "The Phantom wrote: "I agree with climate change. I have seen sufficient data to prove it to me.

And Joshua, they put CO2 in Greenhouses because plants need CO2 for photosynthesis...
Your point doe..."

Yes cows do put out quite a bit of "greenhouse gases" which the grass then takes and uses for photosynthesis. So that is an invalid argument, Because the cows are actually helping the grass to grow to it's full potential.

Joshua wrote: "Bill wrote: "The Phantom wrote: "I agree with climate change. I have seen sufficient data to prove it to me.

And Joshua, they put CO2 in Greenhouses because plants need CO2 for photosynthesis...
Y..."

That's unfortunately false. The primary gas produced by cows is methane. Methane is not a reactant in photosynthesis.

That must be why cows waste is called fertilizer and farmers use it to help food grow...

The fertiliser has nothing to do with the gas. The things farmers want out of fertilisers is nitrogen, which is a perfectly harmless thing, and vital to plant growth... Or any growth...

General Tso wrote: "Mojoboy31 wrote: "That must be why cows waste is called fertilizer and farmers use it to help food grow..."

No, this has absolutely nothing to do with greenhouse gasses.

Ughh, when I get home I a..."

It seems I am not the only one with a degree of knowledge on the subject. ;)

My point, is that a cows waste might not be 100% useful, but it is useful.

@Tso
Awesome

@Mojoboy
That is irrelevant. We were talking specifically about cows in relation to climate change/global warming.

I thought we were talking about not being wasteful with the environment, and being good stewards...

Exactly.

Mojoboy31 wrote: "That must be why cows waste is called fertilizer and farmers use it to help food grow..."

PRECISELY!!! Finnaly someone who understands what cows actully do!

The Phantom wrote: "General Tso wrote: "Mojoboy31 wrote: "That must be why cows waste is called fertilizer and farmers use it to help food grow..."

No, this has absolutely nothing to do with greenhouse gasses.

Ughh,..."

Well don't you think a Third generation cattle rancher should know what He's talking about too?
cows have been around for a long time , and yes the "modern" cow isn't like the first cows but, they are VERY close to the first ones in many ways.
SO if as you say cows are destroying the ozone layer, then wouldn't it be gone right now since there have been "cows" (not to mention the big plant eating dinosaurs) since creation???

The Phantom wrote: "@Tso
Awesome

@Mojoboy
That is irrelevant. We were talking specifically about cows in relation to climate change/global warming."

And the FACT that cows have next to nothing to do with "global warming" is still not registering?

General Tso wrote: "Mojoboy31 wrote: "I thought we were talking about not being wasteful with the environment, and being good stewards..."

We are. And, my point is creating a ton of greenhouse gasses that deplete the..."

But what you fail to point out is that there are plants taking in those "greenhouse gases" and turning them back into oxygen.

Mojoboy31 wrote: "My point, is that a cows waste might not be 100% useful, but it is useful."

Oh it's useful, In more ways than one my friend.

Is China polluted due to cattle?..

General Tso wrote: "Joshua wrote: "Mojoboy31 wrote: "My point, is that a cows waste might not be 100% useful, but it is useful."

Oh it's useful, In more ways than one my friend."

It would take a lot of plants to cur..."

I agree it would take a lot of plants to do that. I am the LAST person in the world that would say "let's just pollute the earth" my point is that the cattle industry isn't all that responsible for the (and this is said VERY sarcastically)"global warming".

A few years ago congress tried to pass a law that would tax us on the amount of "gases" our cows emitted. That would have DEVASTATED the cattle industry within two, maybe three years. Now I don't know about the rest of you, but I just couldn't live in a world where there is no beef.

Methane from livestock is the largest contributor to greenhouse gases... just thought I'd let you know.
Also, the important bit of that is 'methane' i.e. not CO2

And Joshua, I'm more of a chicken person, so I'd be fine with that. And it would indirectly protect rainforests.

Logically, every one should be vegetarian. It's so much more efficient.

Logically, everyone should be Christian. It's so much more Christ-like....

Dangerous territory when we start making decisions for others...

General Tso wrote: "Mojoboy31 wrote: "Is China polluted due to cattle?.."

Hmmmm, I dunno, maybe you need to do more research on world cities? Bangkok China's pollution is contributed to bad practices such as power pl..."

That was my point, Bill. You used Bankok China as an example; saying that it would take a lot of plants to clean it up. Though, Bankok China is polluted for a myriad of reasons. None of them, the cattle industry.

Mojoboy31 wrote: "Logically, everyone should be Christian. It's so much more Christ-like....

Dangerous territory when we start making decisions for others..."

-_-


Mine actually has logic behind it, and - to state only one benefit - would solve world hunger.

Whoo!

The Phantom wrote: "Mojoboy31 wrote: "Logically, everyone should be Christian. It's so much more Christ-like....

Dangerous territory when we start making decisions for others..."

-_-


Mine actually has logic behin..."

Scowl all you want, my point is a fair one. If you take only your opinion/view on a topic, and decide for others-- it's bad news. Just as you wouldn't want me deciding that you're a Christian because it makes sense to me.

Right, it would solve world hunger... No. Why do you think scientists are constantly using genetic modifications to make crops hardier?.. It's because there are places in the world where it's very difficult to grow. Much of the "world hunger" problem is that they simply can't grow enough, fast enough to feed people. Removing a resource such as cattle would be disastrous to world hunger.

The amount of land needed to feed one cattle can feed 50 people.
That is calculated including time and resources.
You lose cattle, but replace it with 50x as much crops.

Josh out.

Joshua wrote: "Josh out."

And this is not because I'm out of arguments. I could argue with you until we're both blue in the face. but I just know that I'm not going to give an argument strong enough to convince you of my side. And neither are you. so I'm just backing out before I get ugly, and beat your socks off.

@general Tso. You have papers that are 3 YEARS old! did you think that they might be just a little outdated?

@Mojo. Right on! and just to build on one of your points, plants may not grow in places that...*drum roll* COWS WILL.

@Phantom. yes you COULD feed that many people on that much ground BUT you destroy the native pasture, thus possibly creating another dust bowl.
AND the fact that a cow can feed about 300 (give or take on the size of the cow) people at one time doesn't seem to have come to your mind has it? whereas you're not going to feed that many people at once with the plants that you CAN (what if your crop fails??? cows don't fail like plants do.)grow on the same acreage.

@Joshua: which brings us back to my point of genetic modification, which overtime is being found out to be harmful. What you would see is more and more and more genetically modified produce.

Answers.com says that an average steer can feed 1400 people.

Mojoboy31 wrote: "@Joshua: which brings us back to my point of genetic modification, which overtime is being found out to be harmful. What you would see is more and more and more genetically modified produce.

Answe..."

WOW! I thought I was off on the number of people but WOW!!! I think I was guessing how many teenage boys it would feed. :D
we know of some farmers that are being sued for using the seed from their corn that they got from Monsanto. Do you know what they are putting into corn? it's a salmon gene! how can that be as good or better than the way God created it? In fact it's NOT! (SURPRISE!)

SCREW MONSANTO!

GO ORGANIC!

@Joshua: average yield of meat for a steer is about 700 lbs. If each person eats an 8 ounce (half pound) serving, you double 700 and come to 1400 servings.

@Mar: It's pretty sick what Monsanto is up to.

Mhm it is....

Mar wrote: "GO ORGANIC!"

Well I will tell you it is VERY hard to go full organic. we do raise our own beef, and let me tell ya, there's not much better than steak off a nice fat steer that you have raised yourself, because you control what goes in there. so we normally bring them from the pasture and they are GOOOD.

Hey, do wanna know something.
The Salmon gene makes it grow faster. It has nothing, apart from origin, to do with salmon.
Apart from questionable religious reasons, I see no basis on which to 'Go Organic'.

The Phantom wrote: "Hey, do wanna know something.
The Salmon gene makes it grow faster. It has nothing, apart from origin, to do with salmon.
Apart from questionable religious reasons, I see no basis on which to 'Go O..."

You have NO idea what you're talking about. That "Harmless" salmon gene can be traced to infertility in men.

I think I would go insane if I had to go without meat. Seriously.

As for GMO's... I have a sneaking suspicion that they are the main reason why so many people are winding up with deadly food allergies and whatnot. Honestly, ten years ago, I barely knew anyone with celiac. Now? I know several people who have to eat gluten free, lactose free, or something else free, or else they'll have a severe reaction.

Jennifer wrote: "I think I would go insane if I had to go without meat. Seriously.

As for GMO's... I have a sneaking suspicion that they are the main reason why so many people are winding up with deadly food aller..."

The increasing trend in this started long before the use of GM foods. Sorry to spoil that.

(Assuming I remember correctly...)

Jennifer wrote: "I think I would go insane if I had to go without meat. Seriously.

As for GMO's... I have a sneaking suspicion that they are the main reason why so many people are winding up with deadly food aller..."

I'm with you on this one.

I believe there is a major link between food allergies, immune disorders, and genetically modified foods.

Believe what you will. I await solid evidence.

The Phantom wrote: "Jennifer wrote: "I think I would go insane if I had to go without meat. Seriously.

As for GMO's... I have a sneaking suspicion that they are the main reason why so many people are winding up with ..."

You assume that you know. but I want to see evidence to backup ALL your claims on the issues that we've discussed. If you want "hard evidence" then watch FOOD INC. it is TERRIFYING what they are doing to the food that we are eating.

@jennifer. You are SPOT-ON!

I have no idea what's going on here...

Paigetwo *Caitlyn* wrote: "I have no idea what's going on here..."

No worries...

The thread is a lot harder to follow now that all of Bill's posts disappeared.

Mojoboy31 wrote: "The thread is a lot harder to follow now that all of Bill's posts disappeared."

True that.

Yea. I don't understand how that happened either though.

It's possible that they deleted all their comments before deleting the account.