The Malazan Fallen discussion

Discuss Chapter 2 only. Please make liberal use of spoiler tags when discussing other books/series-wide implications.

Silchas comes back to convince Udinaas son to join him. It's easy to forget that Rud Ellale, born to Menandore is a third generation soletaken. We get some insight into what it means to be soletaken Elient. Elient are typically driven to destruction to the point of self annihilation - and they are typically loners - it explains why there is so much betrayal between soletaken Elient - like Spite and Envy, Menandore and her sisters, Scabandari and Silchas. Very few have learned to control there dragon natures.
Rake being one of them. Silchas reasons that Rud Ellale seems capable of the same restraint.

Rare the blood-fouled who managed to overcome that innate megalomania. ‘Ah, Udinaas,’ Silchas Ruin had said. ‘My brother, perhaps, Anomander. Osserc? Maybe, maybe not. There was a Bonecaster, once... and a Soletaken Jaghut. A handful of others—when the Eleint blood within them was thinner—and that is why I have hope for Rud Elalle, Udinaas. He is third-generation—did he not clash with his mother’s will?’

Interesting that Silchas mentions a soletaken elient Jaghut - we've seen the soletaken bonecaster being Olar Ethil - the undead dragon of DG - but I don't remember us coming across a soletaken Jaghut. Maybe this means we Should keep our eyes open for one down the track? I can't remember from my first read.

Anyway, while the conflict between the gods remains unresolved, the refugium is still in danger - and Silchas wants Rud to join him to help fight those who would threaten the fledgling realm. Silchas also suggests that Rud himself is in danger from someone who would be queen?

‘She will be Queen,’ Silchas Ruin said abruptly.
‘Who?’
The warrior blinked, as if startled by the question, and then fixed his unhuman attention once more upon Udinaas. ‘Your son is in grave danger.’

The chapter ends with Silchas and Rud veering into their dragon forms and taking off to face down whatever the threat is.


The Perish Grey helms negotiate with the Bolkando for safe passage for the Malazans to march east through their lands after the Bolkando attacked The Malazan Vanguard - The Khundryl Burned Tears. The Bolkando believe that whatever is waiting for the Malazans in the east will destroy them and they agree with the safe passage secretly thinking that they will pick off any fleeing survivors on the return trip

The Perish Destriant suicides(?) after a dangerous divination session where he foresees a betrayal and the death of the Grey helms.

Yedan Dyrryg of the Watch wipes out the Shake witches coven plotting to overthrow Twilight. Only two witches remain having been away. Twilight banishes her Champion for the slaughter.

You’ve just butchered twenty-eight people. Shake. My people! Old men and old women! You slaughtered them!’
He frowned up at her. ‘My Queen, I am the Watch.’

Anyone else see a Mother Dark/Rake parallel?

The timing couldn't be worse for Twilight because an apocalypse is on the way. With the moon shattering the tides have gone all out of whack and the waters are rising to engulf the prison Island. On top of that there is a green hell falling from the sky that threatens everything. All this appears to be part of a Shake prophecy in which the Shake end up saving the world - or something like that

I puzzled over the sole taken Jaghut as well. And thanks for the reminder about Olar.

Silcchas has learned some humility. At the hands of Quick Ben!

I hadn't made the parallel between Mother Dark/Rake and Queen/Watch, but it's a great point. Two differences I see. The watch, for all his talk about intelligence, doesn't seem to have anything like the heart or caring of Rake. I could be wrong on this, but his voice sounded very much like some of the more calculating baddies in these books. Second, Mother Dark walks away from the Andii, while the Watch leaves the shake.

How many Jaghut do we we know enough about to even start guessing which one might be soletaken? Raest? Gothos? Does Icarium count here? How about the matron we met a few books back? Any others?

The one who was with Hedge in the pre-Death zone?

Maybe the soletaken Jaghut was (view spoiler)[ Hood or one of the 14 undead Jaghut army? (hide spoiler)]

we've seen the soletaken bonecaster being Olar Ethil

Thanks for pointing that out, but can't remember any soletaken jaghut.

Silchas also suggests that Rud himself is in danger from someone who would be queen?

he foresees a betrayal and the death of the Grey helms.

Is silchas pointing to adjunct ? because if we compare both the statements then it makes sense.

I can't seem to remember the vow made by the Grey Helms and I'm trying to remember what it was because the destriant clearly warns them that making the vow was their biggest mistake. Can anyone help me out there?

Duffy wrote: "I hadn't made the parallel between Mother Dark/Rake and Queen/Watch, but it's a great point. Two differences I see. The watch, for all his talk about intelligence, doesn't seem to have anything l..."

The idea of a Jaghut Eleint is scary to say the least. But to be draconic soletaken, wouldn't the Jaghut in question have to have entered Starvald Demelain to partake of Tiam's blood? (view spoiler)[I think we can discount Raest, but Gothos and Hood both seem like possibilities. (hide spoiler)]

Devrat wrote: "I can't seem to remember the vow made by the Grey Helms"

I believe it was a vow of allegiance to the Adjunct.

Devrat wrote: "wouldn't the Jaghut in question have to have entered Starvald Demelain to partake of Tiam's blood?"

Yes.

My guess is Gothos.

This is looking like I may enjoy every other chapter. I hope the non Malazan story picks up for me sooner rather than later, although if past books are any indication I'm not optimistic.

Icarium is known to not be able to control his rage. Possible Elient blood in his family?

We were given the reason for Icarium's madness, it had to do with messing with the Azath to free his father.

Lori (Hellian) wrote: "We were given the reason for Icarium's madness, it had to do with messing with the Azath to free his father."

That explains his memory loss, but I think he was susceptible to uncontrolled violence before that. It sounds like he was in a rage when he attacked the Azath to free his father

Hmmm. Yeah that's very true. We never do find out who his mother is, do we? Could be a dragon???

I am way behind on this read.

The Chancellor Rava cracks me up. His sense of humour is going to cause chaos with the dour Grey Helms.

'The sharada,' continued the Chancellor, 'is fed exclusively from the still-births of the wives of the King, generation upon generation. The practice has not been interrupted in seven generations.'

Lee wrote: "I am way behind on this read. "

Not only that..but I had to make the threads for the first week..slacker..

Yeah, but only because you jumped the gun. I went on Monday morning and found my work done for me :)

Saturday night, bottle of Shiraz, kindle, kids in bed, wife at the movies. Time for some Erikson.

It makes sense Icarium's temper could be draconic. But then, if he could veer I'd think he'd do it when he went berserk.

We never do find out who his mother is, do we? Could be a dragon???

I thought his mother was toblaki because icarium even if he is blasted by waves of magic always gets up and comes back, also a dragon mother plus most powerful jaghut gothos would be highly combustible combination too.

Karsa's invulnerability to magic is because of his exposure to otateral. I don't think it's a racial trait. Or maybe its partially racial, but bolstered by the exposure.

So, in all his years, it's fairly likely that at some point Icarium also got exposed, but that's just guessing.

I'm with Duffy.. You see the same kind of exposure with Rallick Nom in earlier books. I would think with all of Icarium's wandering it isn't inconceivable that he was exposed to large amounts of otataral at some point in time.

I thought Icarium was some percentage Toblaki because of what happened in Reaper's Gale. When he and Karsa have the stand-off and Icarium agrees to let Karsa have the Emperor I swear Karsa says something like he knew Icarium was telling the truth because he can see that he is some part Toblekai.

Carl wrote: "I thought Icarium was some percentage Toblaki because of what happened in Reaper's Gale. When he and Karsa have the stand-off and Icarium agrees to let Karsa have the Emperor I swear Karsa says so..."

Yes icarium is part toblaki.I think the ability to resist magic is due to it.