Retro Reads discussion

Book Two, Kishan Prasad.

I just started book two. Where is everybody?

FYI, I know it goes against nature to go to the last pages of the book, but there should be a glossary on words with English translations.

Misfit wrote: "I just started book two. Where is everybody?"

I'm in Norfolk, VA... *sorry, I couldn't resist*

I hope to start my reread Monday. :)
Your updates are really making me wish I had brought the door stopper along!

Having read it once, I am skimming a tad, but there's still more I don't recall from the first go.

I'll probably start tomorrow. *averting eyes to avoid any spoilers*

Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "I'll probably start tomorrow. *averting eyes to avoid any spoilers*"

No spoilers :)

Still haven't started. I have to do some chores today and finish Exit to Eden by Anne Rice.

I started yesterday and I'm well into Book Two. It's very readable. Alex and Winter are likable characters, although Winter doesn't seem quite real to me.

Very accurate, balanced historical detail on Lord Dalhousie's reign and the generally unfavorable results of his policy of annexation (p.166, book 2). This is a portrait of James Ramsay, 1st Marquess of Dalhousie, left for England shortly before Alex and Winter arrive.

Lord Viscount Canning who took over as Governor-General from Lord Dalhousie eight months before Book 2 begins.

Oh thanks for these.

You're very welcome, Misfit. I wasn't sure what was fictional and what was actually real so I went on one of my fun Google trips this morning. Almost everything seems to be based on well-researched history.

I love it when an author can blend real historical persons and events in with the fictional.

Me too. With Kaye it's like you have a history lesson along with an enjoyable story. I don't even mind her books are 700 pages long. :)

What do you think of Winter so far, Misfit and Samanta?

Hana wrote: "What do you think of Winter so far, Misfit and Samanta?"

I like her, but then I have read the book before and know what kind of stuff she's made of.

I haven't gotten to Winter yet. Right now I'm with Sabrina and Marcos but I will let you know as soon as I form a first impression.

Speaking of real persons, and I don't recall the first name at the moment, but there's been several mentions of a Napier. Likely related to that Napier family of great military distinction. And I might add, a family that Lady Sarah Lennox married into. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Sa...

Trivia of sorts. I first heard of this family when I was reading a novel by Priscilla Napier, who had married into this family. It seems she also wrote NF about her husband's forebears. I do own the NF she wrote about Lady Sarah. Priscilla comes what appears to be a fairly distinguished family too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priscil...

I just started book 2 at lunch today so I'm just into the voyage back to India. I really like what I've seen of Alex so far, a hero with actual integrity. How old-fashioned.

I've been out of internet reach for a while, but I'm here now for a couple of days. And I agree, Hana, that Winter isn't as real as Alex yet! I like her, but she's unformed, I think, probably due to her youth and inexperience. She hasn't learned to think yet!

They did not just slit a child's throat as a sacrifice to Kali! Horrified! :(

Samanta, take this as fiction. I'm sort of caught up with work right now but the real story is much more complex.

Misfit wrote: "I just started book two. Where is everybody?

FYI, I know it goes against nature to go to the last pages of the book, but there should be a glossary on words with English translations."

Does your edition have any footnotes for translating? Mine does have a few, along with some pronunciation guides.

Samanta wrote: "They did not just slit a child's throat as a sacrifice to Kali! Horrified! :("

Horror indeed.

Hana wrote: "Samanta, take this as fiction. I'm sort of caught up with work right now but the real story is much more complex."

You're right, Hana. If this were completely non-fiction, it would be harder to bear. And I do like the way Kaye tries to get into all sides; she's not making it about absolute right and absolute wrong. Her characters are often willfully stupid and arrogant, but we meet them on both sides of the story. Actually, on more than two sides!

The hard copy version has translations. I'll post on them whenever you have questions--I've got to log off now.

Meanwhile don't be too sure about the Kali or chapatti narrative--lots of it is nonsense!

I never did think it was really (or completely) about Kali and immediatelly tought (hoped) it was a bit exagerated (I cannot be the judge because I'm not familiar with the lore) but what they did, fiction or non-fiction, is just horrible. And what is even more horrible is that my first thought was that I wouldn't put it past human beings to do something like that in order to achieve a goal. :(

Samanta wrote: "I never did think it was really (or completely) about Kali and immediatelly tought (hoped) it was a bit exagerated (I cannot be the judge because I'm not familiar with the lore) but what they did, ..."

A very large part of this book, I think, is about manipulation. How hard is it to manipulate people into murder, even the murder of children? Sadly, history, and today's news, show that it's horribly easy.

This is an article about the mysterious chapattis that (probably coincidentally) were being passed from town to town. Some British authorities interpreted them as messages organizing the uprising:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history...

I've been Googling around and apparently there were devotees of the Hindu goddess Kali who practiced human sacrifice, possibly as late as the 19th century. One 9th century temple dedicated to Kali was underground (I'll bet M.M.Kaye knew about it and used it as inspiration) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuknur

And it also seems that invocations of Kali were one format for violent anti-British sentiments. This is a translated verse cited in the 1858 London Quarterly Review:

'Close up the mouths of tale-bearers,
Having chewed the tale-bearers, eat them,
Grind to pieces the enemies,
Kill the enemies:
Having killed the English, scatter them,
O Mat Chundu, (O mother Devee,) let none escape.
Kill the enemy and their families,
Protect Sunkur Mahades and preserve your disciples,
Listen to the calling of the poor,
Make haste, O Mat Hacbuka, (Devee,)
Eat the unclean race,
Do not delay, and devour them quickly,
O Ghar Mat Kalika (O terrible mother Devee).'

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/e...

The ever-helpful Victorian Web has a good, balanced summary of the rebellion: http://www.victorianweb.org/history/e...

While I was reading this scene, I kept wondering about the silence of the Musselmen as the sacrifice was happening. They were obviously furious, as the next few pages show, but I wonder if it was the shock of seeing the child that kept them unmoving first, and then self-interest second. "Dogs and devil worshippers": they were definitely uneasy political allies.

I hadn't seen the Victorian Web before, Hana. Good one!

In Chapter 9 we are told that the Skye Boat Song is being sung in the background. Funny this, I just attended a concert last week where this song was performed.

Here is a Youtube of the artist I heard & the song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by3Zb...

I imagine this is not quite the rendition that was heard in Malta. But lovely.

Kathy wrote: "In Chapter 9 we are told that the Skye Boat Song is being sung in the background. Funny this, I just attended a concert last week where this song was performed.

Here is a Youtube of the artist I..."

Thanks for that. It sounds so much like the Outlander theme...

Sorry, ladies, I am being a slow reader with this one. I'm in Chapter 11 now - still traveling back to India. I liked Winter better, and she became more real to me, once she started showing a bit of gumption.

Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "Sorry, ladies, I am being a slow reader with this one. I'm in Chapter 11 now - still traveling back to India. I liked Winter better, and she became more real to me, once she started showing a bit o..."

I'm not much further than you, Tadiana. We can be slowpokes together. :)

You and me, Diane.

:D

Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "Sorry, ladies, I am being a slow reader with this one. I'm in Chapter 11 now - still traveling back to India. I liked Winter better, and she became more real to me, once she started showing a bit o..."

I'm a slow reader too. Don't know the chapter exactly, but I read 300 pages in less than 24 hours and took a break...which is still on. :)

I read a bunch today. I'm in Book 4 now.

I like how Kaye is presenting both sides of the situation. Kishan Prasad is Alex's antagonist, but he's a sympathetic, likable character at the same time. You can understand why he feels the way he does, and sympathize with his bitterness and frustration. Under different circumstances, he and Alex could probably have been good friends.

Winter does become a more well-rounded character in this part, and you feel sorry for her ignorance of what's waiting for her. If only she would listen to Alex! And Carlyon--typical male! The one girl who couldn't care less about him instantly becomes the one he has to have.

You always want most what you can't have.

I'm getting back to a quick re-reading after my vacation from the internet. Cindy, I really like your comment about Kaye presenting both sides to the story.

I've also been reading The Last Mughal: The Fall of a Dynasty: Delhi, 1857. It's a non-fiction treatment of the same period and it is terrific. Kaye really did her research--the chapattis and the greased cartridges are very much based on fact. The religious side of the conflict was at the center of the rebellion and most of the British officials completely misread the depth of anger and dissatisfaction.

Hana wrote: "I'm getting back to a quick re-reading after my vacation from the internet. Cindy, I really like your comment about Kaye presenting both sides to the story.

I've also been reading [book:The Last M..."

Glad to see you back!