Retro Reads discussion

Book Three, Conway.

Just starting this section. Winter is going to be a bit surprised at her groom I think.

An old chum of Alex just made an appearance. William Hodson. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willi...

Not going to read all of it until later. It looks like he plays a big part during the mutiny.

I found it unusual that Conway is obviously despicable to us, the readers, but that Kaye pulls no punches about what he really is with her characters, either. Alex is positive that just one look at him will send Winter (and any friends she has) scurrying for safety. Kaye is not making any excuses for Conway whatsoever, and I like that.

I wondered if Hodson was based on a historic figure! Thanks for the link, Misfit.

I just got to the conversation with Mr. Carroll--the one who came up with the 'swelling fever' improvisation. Mrs Abuthnot is certainly taken in. She doesn't seem too bright.

Hana wrote: "I wondered if Hodson was based on a historic figure! Thanks for the link, Misfit.

I just got to the conversation with Mr. Carroll--the one who came up with the 'swelling fever' improvisation. Mrs ..."

Bwahahahaha, swelling fever my foot.

Poor Winter! What a horrible awakening to reality. I'm in the middle of Ch. 27 now and I'm finding it compelling reading. The whispers in the night! Wow.

Hana wrote: "Poor Winter! What a horrible awakening to reality. I'm in the middle of Ch. 27 now and I'm finding it compelling reading. The whispers in the night! Wow."

Amazing that she's able to keep her dignity about her. I'm so far ahead I'm losing track of what chapter is what - has Alex returned yet?

Yes, Ch. 27 is the one (view spoiler)[when Winter hears the whispered plot to kill Alex and rides out to save him from the ambush (hide spoiler)] Wonderful chapter and that moment when she realizes her true feelings!

Hana wrote: "Yes, Ch. 27 is the one [spoilers removed] Wonderful chapter and that moment when she realizes her true feelings!"

Alex is such a great hero.

Hana wrote: "Yes, Ch. 27 is the one [spoilers removed] Wonderful chapter and that moment when she realizes her true feelings!"

Talk about the light bursting over one's head! I think in that moment she completely grows up and takes responsibility for herself, and I quite love her for it.

I love her for it, too! Coming off my first read of Far from the Madding Crowd I was starting to think of Winter as another Bathsheba Everdene (who I never really liked), but Winter is nowhere near as foolish. She grows up fast and once she does she is proving to be very admirable.

Hana wrote: "I love her for it, too! Coming off my first read of Far from the Madding Crowd I was starting to think of Winter as another Bathsheba Everdene (who I never really liked), but Winter is..."

The only Hardy I've read is Tess, and she about did me in. I've often wondered if all of his "heroines" were as... sappy? Maybe foolish is a nicer description. If I ever develop true strength of character, maybe I'll try him again.

What? (view spoiler)[Winter actually marries Conway (hide spoiler)]. Back to the book, can't wait to see how (view spoiler)[she gets out of this (hide spoiler)]

I know! She actually MARRIES him? Aaaaaargh....

I was bummed by that too! I should have remembered that Kaye doesn't pull her punches in her historical epics.

I was reading this at the bus stop & realized I was fuming out loud about Conway & thankfully there were no people around. But you better believe I looked around to see if anyone was watching me-lol! The watchman at the bank across the street must think I'm crazy.

The combination of factors that led to that marriage was really frustrating to me: Victorian reticence, Winter's own unreliable memories and faulty judgment, relatives' selfishness and lack of caring, Conway's avarice and lies. But I can't say it was unrealistic!

Tadiana ✩ Night Owl☽ wrote: "The combination of factors that led to that marriage were really frustrating to me: Victorian reticence, Winter's own unreliable memories and faulty judgment, relatives' selfishness and lack of car..."

Oh, definitely the kind of realistic stupidity humans enjoy!

LOL

I Carlyon for real?! So conceited. He just doesn't accept that a woman does not like him. And he is so delusional. A dangerous man indeed, as Hodson would say (whom I liked a lot :) ).

I laughed out loud to Hodson's description of Carlyon:

"Dangerous look in his eye. I had a horse like that once. Thoroughbred, with the lines of an archangel and as full of vice as Beelzebub. I shot him."

:D :D :D

"Dangerous look in his eye. I had a horse like that once. Thoroughbred, with the lines of an archangel and as full of vice as Beelzebub. I shot him."

Great line, Samanta! I loved it too. I read a boatload in this book on Sunday and now I've stalled again. Actually I was distracted by another buddy read, for The Invisible Man, which is so much shorter than SotM that I gave it priority. Now I need to get back into this one.

Poor Winter...Barton and Carlyon, both seem to be trouble! Kaye has certainly done a great job of describing them.

Diane Lynn wrote: "Poor Winter...Barton and Carlyon, both seem to be trouble! Kaye has certainly done a great job of describing them."

When I first read of Carlyon, I thought of The Reluctant Widow. Nope, no similarities of character...

Is that a Georgette Heyer?

Diane Lynn wrote: "Is that a Georgette Heyer?"

Yes, I forgot to mention the author! It's a fun one, too, but the Carlyon in that one is not anything like this one.

I see, same character name. It does sound good. :)

I loved when Winter is reunited with her cousin and former wet-nurse, and evades Carlyon's evil clutches. My favorite moment, though, is when she and Alex come face to face for the first time since her marriage. I know she hasn't yet realized that she loves him, but still--the emotional impact of that moment is enormous! And the effect on Alex is so dramatic!

I found Kaye's decision to allow Winter to marry Conway unusual and refreshing. It is quite common in today's romances for the heroine to have "experience" with someone other than the hero, but it was quite unusual when Kaye wrote this. Winter's experiences with Conway made her grow up, as well as providing a foil for Alex. His good qualities are emphasized as she hears him talking to Conway with the patience of an adult speaking to a spoilt, fractious child. How could she not fall in love with him?

Cindy wrote: "I loved when Winter is reunited with her cousin and former wet-nurse, and evades Carlyon's evil clutches. My favorite moment, though, is when she and Alex come face to face for the first time sinc..."

Nicely said. I thought the meeting of Alex and Winter after her marriage just...so...sad and troubling for both of them, neither knowing they were going to meet face to face.

I may be getting ahead of myself here (since this is only my second M.M. Kaye book) but it looks to me like Kaye just has to have her heroine raped at some point. Hero was raped (although she did not REALLY dislike the man), now Winter. Is it some kind of growing up method for her heroines or what?

Samanta wrote: "I may be getting ahead of myself here (since this is only my second M.M. Kaye book) but it looks to me like Kaye just has to have her heroine raped at some point. Hero was raped (although she did n..."

As far as I remember, it's not a feature in any of her mysteries! Maybe she just wanted to remind us of the lack of power her heroines had?

Could be. A nasty way of showing it, to be sure but very expressive. :(

Samanta wrote: "Could be. A nasty way of showing it, to be sure but very expressive. :("

Yes, nasty. It does, I think, make us more sympathetic, too?

I can't decide if it makes me sympathetic or angry.

Samanta wrote: "I can't decide if it makes me sympathetic or angry."

Oh, definitely both!