Should have read classics discussion
Group Book Discussions
>
The Catcher in the Rye
date
newest »
newest »
message 1:
by
Lisa, the usurper
(new)
Feb 20, 2014 08:42AM
Mod
reply
|
flag
Started yesterday (a little bit earlier, sorry...) after having avoided the reading for years (I don't know why, may-be it was because when I was young I didn't want to do the same things my friends were doing) and now, after few pages, I can only question myself on why it kept me so long to start the reading!
This has been sitting on my shelf forever. I'm excited to start it. I may be starting early as well.
Mod
The Catcher in the Rye
Rye catcher.jpg
First edition cover
Author J. D. Salinger
Cover artist E. Michael Mitchell[1][2]
Country United States
Language English
Genre Novel
Published July 16, 1951 (Little, Brown and Company)
Media type Print (hardback & paperback)
Pages 220
ISBN 0-316-76953-3
OCLC 287628
The Catcher in the Rye is a 1951 novel by J. D. Salinger.[3] Originally published for adults, it has since become popular with adolescent readers for its themes of teenage angst and alienation.[4][5] It has been translated into almost all of the world's major languages.[6] Around 250,000 copies are sold each year with total sales of more than 65 million books.[7] The novel's protagonist, Holden Caulfield, has become an icon for teenage rebellion.[8]
The novel was included on Time's 2005 list of the 100 best English-language novels written since 1923,[9] and it was named by Modern Library and its readers as one of the 100 best English-language novels of the 20th century.[10][11][12] In 2003 it was listed at number 15 on the BBC's survey The Big Read.[13] The novel also deals with complex issues of identity, belonging, connection, and alienation.
Writing style
The Catcher in the Rye is written in a subjective style from the point of view of its protagonist, Holden Caulfield, following his exact thought processes. There is flow in the seemingly disjointed ideas and episodes; for example, as Holden sits in a chair in his dorm, minor events, such as picking up a book or looking at a table, unfold into discussions about experiences.
Critical reviews agree that the novel accurately reflected the teenage colloquial speech of the time.[15] Words and phrases that appear frequently include:
"Phony": Superficial, hypocritical, and pretentious
"That killed me": I found that hilarious or astonishing
"Flit": Homosexual
"Crumby": Inadequate, insufficient, and/or disappointing
"Snowing": sweet-talking
"I got a bang out of that": I found it hilarious or exciting
"Shoot the bull": Have a conversation containing false elements
"Give her the time": sexual intercourse
Controversy
In 1960 a teacher in Tulsa, Oklahoma was fired for assigning the novel in class; he was later reinstated.[27] Between 1961 and 1982, The Catcher in the Rye was the most censored book in high schools and libraries in the United States.[28] The book was banned in the Issaquah, Washington high schools in 1978 as being part of an "overall communist plot."[29] In 1981 it was both the most censored book and the second most taught book in public schools in the United States.[30] According to the American Library Association, The Catcher in the Rye was the tenth most frequently challenged book from 1990 to 1999.[10] It was one of the ten most challenged books of 2005,[31] and although it had been off the list for three years, it reappeared in the list of most challenged books of 2009.[32]
The challenges generally begin with Holden's frequent use of vulgar language,[33][34] with other reasons including sexual references,[35] blasphemy, undermining of family values[34] and moral codes,[36] Holden's being a poor role model,[37] encouragement of rebellion,[38] and promotion of drinking, smoking, lying, and promiscuity.[36] Often the challengers have been unfamiliar with the plot itself.[28] Shelley Keller-Gage, a high school teacher who faced objections after assigning the novel in her class, noted that the challengers "are being just like Holden... They are trying to be catchers in the rye."[34] A reverse effect has been that this incident caused people to put themselves on the waiting list to borrow the novel, when there were none before.[39]
Several shootings have been associated with the novel, including Robert John Bardo's shooting of Rebecca Schaeffer and John Hinckley, Jr.'s assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan. Following Mark David Chapman's shooting of John Lennon, Chapman was arrested with a copy of the book that he had purchased that day, inside which he had written, "To Holden Caulfield, From Holden Caulfield, This is my statement".[40][41]
In 2009, Salinger successfully sued to stop the U.S. publication of a novel that presents Holden Caulfield as an old man.[25][42] The novel's author, Fredrik Colting, commented, "call me an ignorant Swede, but the last thing I thought possible in the U.S. was that you banned books."[43] The issue is complicated by the nature of Colting's book, 60 Years Later: Coming Through the Rye, which has been compared to fan fiction.[44] Although commonly not authorized by writers, no legal action is usually taken[45] against fan fiction since it is rarely published commercially and thus involves no profit. Colting, however, has published his book commercially. Unauthorized fan fiction on The Catcher in the Rye existed on the Internet for years without any legal action taken by Salinger before his death.[44]
I read this last year for the first time. My parents would not allow me to read it when I was in high school. Reading it for the first time when I was 60, I realized that I had missed nothing. It is highly overrated with extensive foul language and an unlikeable, phony hypocritical protagonist who constantly whined about the unlikeable, phony hypocrites he met everywhere.
Emily, your summary is pretty accurate, but Holden isn't supposed to be the kind of protagonist that catalyzes a plot that leads to an edifying conclusion. There is a double magic that works in this book. Young readers struggling with their own season of angst appreciate Holden's painful insights and the bleakness of his journey. Older readers recognize the irony of Holden's judgements against the phonies. He isn't to be condemned for pointing out how far short of any ideal the average person falls or for being exquisitely sensitive to such failings. He's just a kid who wants the world to be a more noble place than it really is.
I'm going to have to pass this month - I'm too tied up. But I'll participate in the Roald Dahl read and join the adult read in April.
I have a good friend who has read this at multiple times in her life and says that she has new insight every time. I think, like most good stories, we gain different things from them as we age.
It's my first time to join a book club. Can't wait to get started. I've seen this book many times in bookstores. Now I have a reason to finally pick it up.
I was really excited to star the next book.I start last evening, still in February, I was way too curious. My husband works every saturday from 3.30 pm till midnight and I hate having so much time for myself. Today it passed so much faster with the book and I can say I like it.
I think it is pretty good when you think it is written by a 16 year old boy. The vocabulary might sound younghish but I like the fact that the boy seems smart and also unique. I am already at chapter 6 and I keep going :)
Longhare wrote: "Emily, your summary is pretty accurate, but Holden isn't supposed to be the kind of protagonist that catalyzes a plot that leads to an edifying conclusion. There is a double magic that works in thi..."I read this one years ago. Coming back to it, I'm amazed at how distinctive a voice he has. You really feel you are inside his head.
This book wasn't on my reading lists in school. I avoided it otherwise because it seems like a cliche as it was mentioned so much in pop culture. However, I'm enjoying to have finally begun it!I agree with Longhare. I don't think it's really the reader's place to judge the narrator or protagonist as an appropriate role model or whether or not we "like" them. By recognizing the flaws within the character, it (should) inspire introspection of your own. So far, I think this character is a true reflection on an aspect of the human condition.
The book seem to me about a boy who lost his innocence and cannot totally express what has happened to him. He states at the end of chapter 24 that things like that happen to him like 20 times when he was a kid.I was inferring here that he was molested? My favorite part was when Holden tries to convince Sally to run away with him, it reminded me of the scene in "Its a Wonderful Life" when George tries to get the blonde girl to run away with him.
When I finished the reading, the only thought I had was "Somehow Holden reminds me Peter Pan...". I've tried to understand better this thought since I finished the book, but with no luck: the only link I've finally found is the loneliness that is pervading Holden's soul as it does in Peter Pan.
I really love the way the author captures teenage angst. You feel that every single person feels happy and confident except you. But at the same time you realise how ridiculous you are being but only in a vague sort of a way so you hate yourself for feeling that way but don't really know what to do about it. I recently found a scrapbook of mine from when I was about 17. I'd written in the margins 'don't hate the happy people on the radio, they're going to die too.' I'd also written a poem about the ghost of a girl watching her family going about their lives and feeling generally cross and hard done by. It made me laugh. I couldn't have been morecliched if I'd tried.
Isobel wrote: "I really love the way the author captures teenage angst. You feel that every single person feels happy and confident except you. But at the same time you realise how ridiculous you are being but o..."This book really captures teenage angst. Holden seems to jump off the page, however clichéd that sounds. Whether he's dealing with other guys in the dorm, his professor, or the girls in the hotel bar, I just feel I'm inside his head, experiencing things with him.
About one-third of the way in at this point.
Mod
Mod
I remember having to read this in high school, and didn't like it then. I didn't like Holden. He then reminded me of kids I didn't get along with and I couldn't relate. Reading it now I can understand Holden a little bit better, but I'm still not loving it the way some people say they do.
I like Holden because I think he's a sweet boy at heart. At times I found the book frustrating because he's his own worst enemy. But the fact that I became so emotionally involved proves that it's a great book. I mean if you feel like yelling "what are doing you idiot" at a book then the author has done their job.
Lisa wrote: "I hate to say it, but I can't finish this one. I can't even get past page 25. Holden just drives me crazy. Sorry about that group, but I just don't want to finish this one again."I did finish it, but I know where you're coming from. The first time I read this in high school, I just couldn't relate to it. What was all this stuff in New York, teenagers in cabs and hotels? A rich kid dealing with getting kicked out of private schools?
On my second time through, (view spoiler)
I can see why it's a classic. It is good to have re-read it.
I've never read this before. I'll admit that the Mark David Chapman connection led to some reluctance on my part. Salinger captures the essence of adolescent rebellion and alienation very well, but I can't quite figure out what his point is. The character of Holden is fleshed out very well, but how are we meant to respond to him? (Personally, I wanted to send him off for a couple of months digging ditches, but my reaction would likely have been a bit different if I had first read this as a teenager.) What are we meant to take away from this? How are we supposed to interpret the title? Would people still be reading this if it had never been banned?
Nina wrote: "I've never read this before. I'll admit that the Mark David Chapman connection led to some reluctance on my part. Salinger captures the essence of adolescent rebellion and alienation very well, but..."I looked up the poem that the little kids was reciting and where the book gets it's title. It's about a teenage girl meeting boys in a field. So we again are brought back to the coming of age theme. Although the poem is not explicit it was still not age appropriate for a five year old so I think there's something in that. But I have no idea what Holden meant when he said that what he wanted to do was catch people in the rye, or something like that. I can't remember exactly what he said. Holden didn't know what he meant either.
Isobel wrote: "Nina wrote: "I've never read this before. I'll admit that the Mark David Chapman connection led to some reluctance on my part. Salinger captures the essence of adolescent rebellion and alienation v..."A question about Catcher in the Rye was on Jeopardy this week. It touches on what Holden meant when he said that he wanted to catch people in the rye.
I think the best answer is found in Sparknotes at http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/catcher.... This guide says that Holden wants to catch children before they fall out of innocence into knowledge of the adult world, including knowledge of sex.
Mod
I first read this book as a teen or college student. I hated it so much the first time I read it. I just despised Holden.But this time I have totally different feelings about it. I feel sad for Holden. Poor kid. He keeps screwing up and is really depressed. He wants to be all grown up and wants to be a child. I suppose we all do.
I'll have to read it again someday when I'm a parent. Glad I decided to join this group- reading (and re-reading) books I wouldn't pick is good.
I'm unable to push past the anger and vulgarity!However, reading the comments does help with some insight into the book.
Reading everyone's comments and that lovely Sparknotes piece (thanks, Emily!) has helped me understand this book a whole lot better. However, it still doesn't seem like the kind of thing I'll want to re-visit. I just don't like Holden all that much, though I suppose he could be more fun to hang around with than Gregor Samsa....
A lot of people don't like Holden. The thing about literature is that it allows us access to the inner workings of other human beings (albeit fictional ones). Clearly, Holden isn't well liked in his fictional world either. Probably, everybody knew (or were) a Holden at that age. Question for those who find Holden a repellant character: Does this hold true in real life--did/do you avoid people like Holden? Since you can't see what is going on inside their heads, what exactly do you find off-putting about them? Is it what they say or how they look or how they behave? Are they actively offensive or merely a drag? Do they creep you out? Are you impatient with their cynicism? Bothered by their intensity? Insulted by their transparent assessment of your more easygoing character?I think most people who love the book relate to Holden on some level, which is maybe an indication of how many Holdens (or closet Holdens) there are out there. It is therefore worthwhile considering why Holden provokes the reaction he does in readers who dislike him.
It is also worth weighing whether Holden is simply a born whiner or suffering from a psychological disorder that makes it difficult to navigate socially. Is he a Mark David Chapman who doesn't, thankfully, happen to be homicidal? What pushes a Holden over the edge, and what catches him?
Mod
Lisa, yeah, Holden is probably not the person to ask for an honest appraisal of one's rear bumper! Your answer totally makes sense, and I think most people feel that way. Ironically, though, Holden's intentions are good. However prickly and hostile he may seem, he only wants people to be kinder and less deceitful. As you say, a certain amount of dishonesty is required for people to get along, and Holden isn't comfortable with that. Neither is he comfortable with the cruelty or selfishness that is commonly accepted as part of human relations. Of course, he doesn't see that his own total intolerance of the foibles of others is in itself unkind and self-serving.If you want a picture of Holden, without the family money, older, trying to keep a job and get a girlfriend, read Lucky Jim (Kingsley Amis). James Dixon is more actively hostile and more harshly judgmental than Holden, but because he manages (barely) to wear a mask of relative good nature, he gets on better than Holden. In fact, I suspect he would be the very guy Holden would most despise for being phoney.
Hello everyone,I just started reading this book. This is my first time reading the book, though I feel as though at some point I was probably required to read it and never did.
Anyway, I actually like Holden. I am a teacher so Holden reminds me of the many "lost souls" who seem to find no success in a classroom setting. Honestly, some of those students are the smartest kids you'll ever meet but they are unmotivated, don't care about much, and rather be doing anything but school work. Holden gives you a first-person POV of that one kid in school (or several kids depending on what school you went to) who seemingly care about and do nothing.
The booked roped me in when Holden went to visit Mr. Spencer before leaving for NY. How awesome was his perspective on his teacher? Holden knows his teacher cares and he knows he's been a failure in school but he understands that school is just not in his immediate interest. To be totally honest, there are many people like this. As a person (nevermind me being a teacher for a minute) I can't seem to understand what a person like this is thinking. You get a free education and you don't want to take advantage of it? But, Holden allows you to see what is floating around in his head (though troubling at some points, it is insightful).
His rambling is kind of hard to follow sometimes because he goes from one thought to the other, but I think that makes him authentic.
Also, I like the use of vulgar language because what would Holden be without some vulgarity? He wouldn't be the "misfit" the author makes him out to be.
My favorite line so far, "You can't stop a teacher when they want to do something. They just do it."
I think this is also true for Holden!
I finished the book two days ago, and it was one of the best reading experiences I've ever had. I can relate with Holden, maybe a little too much to my liking, having experienced similar things in my adolescence. Feelings that, considering my current age of 19, are not yet fully processed. The book's true quality is found in chapter 24, where Holden visits Antolini. Consider this quote:“Among other things, you'll find that you're not the first person who was ever confused and frightened and even sickened by human behavior. You're by no means alone on that score, you'll be excited and stimulated to know. Many, many men have been just as troubled morally and spiritually as you are right now. Happily, some of them kept records of their troubles. You'll learn from them—if you want to. Just as someday, if you have something to offer, someone will learn something from you. It's a beautiful reciprocal arrangement. And it isn't education. It's history. It's poetry.”
Feelings of self-alienation, in my experience, consist primarily of the feeling that you're absolutely alone. Unique in a sense that there is no one in the entire world feeling the same way you do. This quote is almost prophetic. In a way that people that experience these feelings, find a true friend in Salinger. Even more than a friend: a talisman that you'll use occasionally, providing light in dark places. Salinger is writing from his own experiences, no doubt about that. In an article about the book, I read the following: maybe that's why Salinger stopped writing, to protect his characters from the world that inflicted so much pain on them. Both sad and sweet at the same time.
Another book that I found great about the subject, is dostojevsky's 'notes from underground.' Also a recommended read.
This is my 3rd time reading this novel. Like with all good books, different aspects catch my attention each time. This go 'round I was struck by the character of Phoebe. Her brother wants to "catch" her before she loses her childhood innocence, but he inadvertently adds to her loss himself.
That's a nice observation, Kathryn. Though Holden calls out the faults of others, he is not really free of fault himself. It's part of being human, and growing up means learning to understand that.
I have finished & really enjoyed following Holden in the Catcher in the Rye. I think I'm actually sad that it's over! I know that I had to read several books in high school but for whatever reason I don't believe I never read this one (I would have remembered Holden). I don't know if I would want any high school student to read this because I don't think that Holden is the best role model but I really liked him. I think he just has to figure somethings out in life, which we've all had to do. Even though he has a potty mouth and he's a lush, I like how he loves and adores his little sister. Overall I loved this book & I'd read it again. I would definitely recommend this to anyone looking for a good read.
Vinnie wrote: "Feelings of self-alienation, in my experience, consist primarily of the feeling that you're absolutely alone. Unique in a sense that there is no one in the entire world feeling the same way you do. This quote is almost prophetic. In a way that people that experience these feelings, find a true friend in Salinger."Hi, Vinnie- I first read Catcher in the Rye as a teenager, and my memory of it was pretty much of a disaffected teenager (Holden) pointlessly wandering around New York City -- with his little sister Phoebe being about the only person he really had a good relationship with. I didn't remember that he had a younger brother who had died. I'm 51 now, and I appreciate the book better this time around.
What you said about the book showing what it's like to feel alienated is, I agree, the actual point. Although Holden is a liar, confused, and sad -- and he doesn't see the point of typical success, he does care about people and want to feel close to them on some level. What Holden does get right is the importance of caring for other people and trying to protect them. I believe that the book itself, and its author, is attempting to be a catcher in the rye by showing what it's like to be so confused, sad, and alienated. The book can help adults (like the teacher, Kishma, above) better understand young people like Holden and thus perhaps help "save" or "catch" them. The book, as you wrote, can also help people who identify with Holden know they are not alone -- which is crucial in and of itself.
I thought the reason Holden was happy at the end watching Phoebe riding the carrousel was that he knows how important he is to her, and that his just being there is what she needs. She has proven this to him by packing her bags to leave with him, and then only forgiving him once he has repeatedly reassured her that he's changed his mind and will not be taking off on his own and leaving their family.
I gotta read it again soon. I read it in high school, I think junior year and it was actually one of the only assigned books I enjoyed. Gonna get a new copy very soon !http://findbestsellers.org
I never read this one in high school either, & sadly, neither did any of my 5 children. I picked it up just because I'd heard so MUCH about it over the years & felt like I was missing out because I hadn't read it.Being a Mom of 5, 3 of them boys, 2 of them LIKE Holden in that they would have rather been doing anything BUT schoolwork, I could relate to him. The language didn't bother me either, I'm a Navy vet, & I've probably heard & used worse! I thought it made his "voice" more authentic, because that's exactly what most most teen boys who are mad at the world are like.
Like a LOT of young men, Holden's love for Phoebe is his saving grace. How many troubled boys are turned into successful men by the love of a good woman? Quite a few, my oldest son included. He also was turned around. He got himself kicked out of high school the middle of his senior year, had some issues with substance abuse, battled depression. He ended up getting his GED, has a steady job, & he & my DIL live with us because they WERE roomies with 2 other guys, both of whom were drug users, & they wanted out of that negative environment. She is going to graduate her culinary arts college in January, & when she is gainfully employed, he wants to start back in college. Sometimes he reminded me a LOT of Holden!
I read this when I was a teenager, and it still remains as my favorite book of all times! It made me laugh out loud so many times, it even broke my heart. I could go on forever but I don't want to spoil anything for those who haven't read it yet. I just wanted to say - please pick this up and just read it!
