Book Nook Cafe discussion

A Book and a Movie !

What's this ? Group read AND a movie for March/April 2014
All are welcome and encouraged to join in !

Book: The Cider House Rules

Author: John Irving

Author Bio
• Birth—March 2, 1942
• Where—Exeter, New Hampshire, USA
• Education—B.A., University of New Hampshire;
M.F.A., Iowa Writers' Workshop
• Awards—American Book Award (Garp); Academy
Award, Best Screen Pay (Cider House)
• Currently—lives in Vermont

John Irving published his first novel, Setting Free the Bears, in 1968. He has been nominated for a National Book Award three times-winning once, in 1980, for the novel The World According to Garp. He also received an O. Henry Award, in 1981, for the short story "Interior Space." In 1992, Mr. Irving was inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame in Stillwater, Oklahoma. In 2000, he won the Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay for The Cider House Rules-a film with seven Academy Award nominations. In 2001, he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Letters. Last Night in Twisted River is John Irving's twelfth novel.

Movie: The Cider House Rules (1999)


Stars: Tobey Maguire, Charlize Theron, Michael Caine

When: We will begin the discussion on March 1, 2014. You DO NOT have to have the book read by March 1. Just start reading it and discussing it on starting that date. Discuss it as you read it.

Where: The discussion will take place in this thread

Spoiler Etiquette: Put chapter # at top of your post and write SPOILER WARNING at top of your post if you are giving away a major plot element.

Book Details:
The novel is around 600 pages
It comes in all formats. Paperback, hardcover, eBook audio book

Synopsis: The Cider House Rules is John Irving's sixth novel. Set in rural Maine in the first half of this century, it tells the story of Dr. Wilbur Larch—saint and obstetrician, founder and director of the orphanage in the town of St. Cloud's, ether addict and abortionist. It is also the story of Dr. Larch's favorite orphan, Homer Wells, who is never adopted. (From the publisher.)

Discussion Questions (May contain SPOILERS)


Discussion Questions
1. The rules posted on the cider house wall aren't read or understood by anyone living there except Mr. Rose, who makes—and breaks—his own set of rules. What point is John Irving making with the unread rules?

2. What rules, both written and unwritten, do other characters follow in the novel? Did most characters violate their own rules? Who stays the most true to his or her rules?

3. Dr. Larch makes the interesting statement that because women don't legally have the right to choose, Homer Wells does not have a moral claim in choosing not to perform abortions. Do you find Larch's argument compelling? Do you think Homer was ultimately convinced or that he needed an escape from Ocean View?

4. In order to set future events on what he believes to be the correct path, Larch alters the history of the orphanage to create a false heart murmur for Homer and changes various school transcripts to create Dr. Fuzzy Stone. What other doctoring of history does Larch do? Do you think Homer, as Dr. Fuzzy Stone, will continue the tradition?

5. St. Cloud's setting is grim, unadorned, and unhealthy, while Ocean View is healthy, wide open, and full of opportunities. In what ways do the settings of the orphanage and the orchards belie their effect on their residents? What did you make of Homer bringing the apple trees to St. Cloud's?

6. As you were reading, what did you expect Melony to do to Homer when she finally found him? Though Homer forgets about Melony for many years, do you think she had more of an impact on his future than Candy did?

7. Larch's introduction to sex comes through a prostitute and her daughter, and his introduction to abortion is given by thesame women. Sex with Melony, the picture of the pony, and abortions performed by Larch introduces Homer to the same issues, yet Homer doesn't maintain sexual abstinence as Larch does. Why do you think this is? Do you think Larch substitutes ether for sex?

8. Violence against women forms a thread throughout the novel; Melony fights off apple pickers, Grace receives constant beatings from her husband, and Rose Rose suffers incest. Does the author seem to be making a connection between violence and sex? How do the women's individual responses to violence reflect their personalities?

9. The issues of fatherhood are complex—as seen in Larch's relation-ship with Homer, and Homer's relationship with Angel—but being a good father or good parent is stressed throughout. According to the novel, what are some of the ingredients that make a good father? Is truthfulness one of them?

10. Candy's "wait and see" philosophy contrasts with Larch's constant tinkering with the future to suit his desires. Based on his personality, is Homer better suited to waiting or to working?

11. Herb Fowler's sabotaged condoms are one example of how people and rules in Ocean View are actually the opposite of what they seem. What other examples can you recall?

12. 12. Near the end, Homer's meeting with Melony is a turning point, spurring him to reveal the truth about Angel's parentage and to return to St. Cloud's, where he can be "of use." While reading, did you want to learn more about Melony's adventures during the intervening years or less? Which character do you think drove the novel's momentum?

13. If you saw the film adaptation of The Cider House Rules, discuss the aspects of the story that you think were stronger in the novel, and the portions of the film that were especially potent. What are your feelings about film adaptations of novels in general, and about the adaptation of this novel in particular?

14. What did you find to be particularly effective or well done in Irving's writing? If you've read other Irving novels, name some of the themes that he carries over from novel to novel.
(Questions issued by publisher.)

Book Reviews


The point [of the novel] which is driven home with the sledgehammer effect that John Irving usually uses—is that there are always multiple sets of rules for a given society.... Actually, this is a sharper point than Mr. Irving has made in any of his previous five novels.... [Cider House Rules is] funny and absorbing, and it makes clever use of the plot's seeming predictability.
New York Times


An old-fashioned, big-hearted novel...with its epic yearning caught in the 19th century, somewhere between Trollope and Twain.... The rich detail makes for vintage Irving.
Boston Sunday Globe


The Cider House Rules is filled with people to love and to feel for.... The characters in John Irving's novel break all the rules, and yet they remain noble and free-spirited. Victims of tragedy, violence, and injustice, their lives seem more interesting and full of thought-provoking dilemmas than the lives of many real people.
Houston Post


John Irving's sixth and best novel.... He is among the very best storytellers at work today. At the base of Irving's own moral concerns is a rare and lasting regard for human kindness.
Philadelphia Inquirer


Entertaining and affecting . . . ...John Irving is the most relentlessly inventive writer around. He proliferates colorful incidents and crotchets of character.... A truly astounding amount of artistry and ingenuity."
San Diego Union

I'm in! I'll be starting in a few days once I finish my current book.

Great !

Did you know that John Irving originally sold the rights to this movie but retained some creative part in the making of it. he was so unhappy with the choices of director and writer that he eventually bought back the rights once they lapsed and did the movie his way.

Sad to say I have never finished a John Irving book although I can't really say. I read 200 pages of The World According to Garp, laughed myself silly and then put it down and never picked it up again. Today I have this feeling that Irving and other writers like Philip Roth and Joyce Carol Oates are unreadable authors for me.

But I'm toying with the idea of downloading this book and taking part here if it takes me a few months to finish this book.

A Prayer for Owen Meany is one of my all time favorite books.

I'm in also. I've just started the book.

The kindle book is $1.99 today!

I will join in later this month - I want to finish David Copperfield first and have a couple of other books to read with other groups. But The Cider House Rules is on my list for this year, so I'll get there eventually.

Alias Reader wrote: "A Prayer for Owen Meany is one of my all time favorite books."

Same here, I adored Owen Meany and need to re-read it sometime soon. In my top ten for sure.

I am starting The Cider House Rules this afternoon. I stayed up late last night to finish my Vonnegut to make sure I had a clear run at this one!

I will probably start on Monday. Though with moving, my reading time will be limited.

I am looking forward to the discussion.

Julie wrote: "The kindle book is $1.99 today!"

Excellent ! I purchased it for the kindle when it was on sale awhile back. Great timing that it is on sale again.

I picked up the paperback yesterday. There are 11 chapters so I think I will try to finish them ASAP since I still have David Copperfield to read.



The Cider House Rules, 1985

CH 1: 35 pages -- The Boy who Belonged to St. Cloud's
CH 2: 34 pages -- The Lord's Work
CH 3: 43 pages -- Princes of Maine, Kings of New England
CH 4: 48 pages -- Young Dr. Wells
CH 5: 57 pages -- Homer Breaks a Promise
CH 6: 55 pages -- Ocean View
CH 7: 58 pages -- Before the War
CH 8: 56 pages -- Opportunity Knocks
CH 9: 62 pages -- Over Burma
CH 10: 74 pages -- Fifteen Years
CH 11: 78 pages -- Breaking the Rules

I am so mad. I downloaded this yesterday from Amazon and today it's only $1.99 from William Morrow in honor of the Academy Awards.

Oh no! Bad timing Nancy! That sucks.

Nancy, you might want to email them to complain - maybe they will refund. Also, I think sometimes you can "return" the book and just then re-buy at $1.99. Sort of cheating, but then I figure I've spent enough at Amazon that I've more than made up for it!

I bought it last time it was $1.99.

Carol wrote:


"CH 1: 35 pages -- The Boy who Belonged to St. Cloud's
CH 2: 34 pages -- The Lord's Work
CH 3: 43 pages -- Princes of Maine, Kings of New England
CH 4: 48 pages -- Young Dr. Wells
CH 5: 57 pages -- Homer Breaks a Promise
CH 6: 55 pages -- Ocean View
CH 7: 58 pages -- Before the War
CH 8: 56 pages -- Opportunity Knocks
CH 9: 62 pages -- Over Burma
CH 10: 74 pages -- Fifteen Years
CH 11: 78 pages -- Breaking the Rules..."

Thanks for the chapter breakdown, Carol.

I started chapter 1 last night and am enjoying it.

**** Let's remember to put the chapter # Title at the top of all spoiler posts !

I just heard we are to expect 8-12 inches of snow tomorrow beginning with ice tonight, so I surely am glad to have a chunkster to read.

My son flew up for a work conference this week, decided to stay overnight with us, and was suppose to fly out this morning at 9am. He went to check online and the airline cancelled his flight, he called the airport, and no flights anywhere close to Texas. He called my brother-in-law who flies (pilot) Southwest -- no flights coming in or going out-- not even standing room only. The forecast is ice starting this afternoon and continuing tmrw. It looks as though Dallas will be iced in.

I guess the good news us that he can stay with you instead of in the airport . Did you ever see that Tom Hanks movie about the guy who couldn't leave? Everyone was taking about it when Edward Snowden was living in the Moscow airport . I hope your son's family in Texas is OK.

My oldest (26) has a great place in Austin. My youngest son (23) went to live with him last fall. It's a great place for the 20-somethings . . .

CHAPTER ONE : The Boy Who Belonged to St. Cloud


Set on the 1920s . . . "There is an orphanage in Maine where," in Dr. Larch's diary is "A Brief History of St. Cloud’s, and the Ramses Paper Company which was the enemy of St. Cloud’s by killing the land and maiming its people for its insatiable desire for paper. And when there were no more trees, the Ramses Paper Company closed down the mill and moved downstream, leaving only aged prostitutes and their orphaned children."

A literate prostitute wrote a letter to the state board of Maine asking for a doctor, school, policeman, and lawyer for the helpless women and orphans of St. Cloud’s. A letter reached Dr. Larch when he was a young man. He eventually created a state-supported orphanage. He left St. Cloud’s only once, during World War I. And by the 1920s, when Homer Wells was born, Nurses Edna and Angela had given him the pet name Saint Larch.

Dr. Wilbur Larch lives at the orphanage, and helps those who come to him/or ask for help. He circumcises all the male children, and his well-trained nurses, Edna and Angela, name and help all the children to become adopted. The children have been named by both nurses, but the names are to be used ONLY at the orphanage. Once adopted, those names are forgotten forever, and their new parents choose their new names. Dr. Larch believes that "a new name will give the children a fresh start."

Homer’s first foster parents returned him because of his unusual ability to be silent and placid. His second foster parents responded to his silence by beating him in order to make him cry. When Homer saw that his foster parents wanted him to cry, that’s what he gave them, tears and wailing, wholeheartedly. When the news reached St. Cloud’s, the nurses were alarmed, knowing it was unusually for Homer. It took the nurses almost a year before Homer stopped screaming whenever someone approached him. Homer left the Drapers, he didn't like the drinking and odd prayers, His last foster family, the wealthy Winkles, were the "outdoors-sports type." They camped, canoed, and pitched camp. It was there that Homer would read to them from his favorite book Dickens’ Great Expectations before falling asleep.

Check out the cover of the book, it says "Dicken's Works" (which never existed.) All his books were published individually, after being in the papers. Why does Homer like Great Expectations?
Is it because, just like Homer, the characters --Pip and Estella --are also orphans?!

The next morning the Winkles arose and decided to swim in the raging stream with an erected elaborate system of safety ropes and survival lines so they could be in the strong rapids. Suddenly, the earth shook, and the Winkles realized that the Ramses Paper Company’s log drive was coming from upstream. They struggled to get to safety. Homer fled to the road, and turned in time to see the logs surge by and take the Winkles with them. Three days laster The Ramses Paper Company found their bodies. I felt that he finally found those who equally liked him.

Both the nurses’ and Dr. Larch was happy to have Homer return to the orphanage after four failed foster homes. Dr. Larch decided that Homer belonged to St. Cloud’s.

Dr. Larch as founder and director of the orphanage makes all the decisions. The nurses respect and admire him. They also admire the work he does as an obstetrician and as an abortionist. None of them see abortion as the Devil’s work. Larch has firm beliefs, and his actions speak louder than his words. Despite abortion being illegal, his belief that women have the right to choose, allowed him to deliver them. He also attempts to provide the orphans in his care with routine, security, and a reason to trust.

If someone can tell me how to do a spoiler, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

Perhaps you could simply type "Spoiler Alert" at the beginning if your comment? That is an easy way for those of us who aren't as far along to skip or look away.

You can write in bold at the top of your post SPOILER and please include the chapter #

Or you can use HTML to hide the post. To see what you need to type look at the top of the box where you type your post. On the right side on the top of the box you will see-- some html is ok--- click on that to get the code for spoiler.

Chapter 1

When Homer is made to say, "I am vile. I abhor myself" for some reason it made me think of the actress Suzanne Somers . I recall her father used to say to her she was nothing A Big Fat Zero. So sad.

Chapter 1

So sad to read that at St. Cloud they withohold love because if you don't do this the "no orphan will willing leave."

I remember in college they taught us about experients done with monkeys that were not touched. If a baby is not touched or loved they will fail to thrive.
Wiki--
Harry Frederick Harlow (October 31, 1905 – December 6, 1981) was an American psychologist best known for his maternal-separation, dependency needs, and social isolation experiments on rhesus monkeys, which demonstrated the importance of care-giving and companionship in social and cognitive development. He conducted most of his research at the University of Wisconsin–Madison, where humanistic psychologist Abraham Maslow worked for a time with him.

Harlow's experiments were controversial; they included rearing infant macaques in isolation chambers for up to 24 months, from which they emerged severely disturbed.[1] Some researchers cite the experiments as a factor in the rise of the animal liberation movement in the United States.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Ha...

Sadly when I googled failed to thrive and orphan a ton of websites came up.

Here is a quote from one. "By definition, failure to thrive is when the efforts of a living being to continue life, internally or externally, ultimately cease. Quite frequently, this state of condition is often seen among infants and children who are orphaned and abandoned. These children who lack sufficient amounts of nurturing touch and love within the early months and years of their lives steadily deplete both mentally and physically, and ultimately die."


Here is an interesting essay I found online about touch.
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/...

chapter 2

In this chapter we are told the doctor gave the mother who just delivered a baby "ergot".

My kindle defines this as: A fungal disease of rye and other cereals which black,, elongated, fruiting bodies grow in the ears of the cereal. Eating contaminated food can result in ergotism.

I've never heard of this remedy before.

I found this definition online.
"Ergot is a fungus that infects cereal grains, replacing kernels of the fruit with small black masses of mycelium. It produces ergotamine, a potent vasoconstrictor and precursor to LSD. Ergot poisoning (St Anthony's Fire) causes hallucinations, gangrenous loss of limbs, and death. Outbreaks plagued medieval Europe and were associated with witchcraft and the Inquisition"

I guess it was used by the doctor as some type of pain relief or to stop hemorrhaging. I'm surprised that it was used as late as the 1930s.

Here is the wiki on its history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergot

EDIT: I see further into chapter 2 it is explained.
"Some -like the ergot Larch used to make the uterus contract after delivery..."

chapter 2

We learn in this chapter that the doctor is an "imbiber of ether" and an "ether addict".

Wiki had this-
During the second half of the 19th century, ether was in vogue as a recreational drug in some places, becoming especially popular in Ireland, as temperance campaigners thought it was an acceptable alternative to alcohol.[1][2] Indeed until 1890, when it was classified as a poison, more than 17,000 gallons of ether were being consumed in Ireland.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ether_ad...

I never heard of this before.

Chapter 2

The horrors that women went through before birth control. Turpentine, strychnine and oil of rue etc.

Chapter 1

I saw the film when it was released, and I can't help but hear Michael Cain's voice as Dr. Larch. The decision to keep, abort, or give a child up for adoption is always a difficult one, even more so back then. We are fortunate now to have open adoptions, support for single mothers, and abortion (which I do not support). But as Dr. Larch says, "Even in enlightened times, unwanted babies will manage to be born."

Homer has found his home - it is where he feels loved, cared for, and useful. But this chapter prompted me search for the orphanages in CT. This was an interesting read: http://www.highlandheightsorphanage.c...

Cathy, I plan on renting the movie after I read the book.

Alias Reader wrote: "Chapter 1

So sad to read that at St. Cloud they withohold love because if you don't do this the "no orphan will willing leave."

I remember in college they taught us about experients done with mon..."

The idea of this is so sad it hurts to think about. Also the part where the second family beat baby Homer to make him cry. I felt like going round their fictional house and bouncing them off the walls (and I am NOT a violent person at all!). The awful parts in this book come from Irving with such a matter-of-fact tone - basically saying 'these things happened and it was accepted'. Only Dr Larch at the moment seems to be trying to help out in a world full of horrors.

I ADORE Dr Larch at the moment - he is a complete and utter hero. Doing the right thing just makes sense to him, especially after his initial hesitation that ended badly (chapter 2). He seems to accept the world is a complicated and difficult place and wants to 'be of use' in the best way he can i.e

'That's right,' Dr Larch said. 'I'm just the doctor. I help them have what they want. An orphan or an abortion.'

I think this shows that both of these decisions are horrendously difficult for any pregnant woman having to choose between them, but he is at least allowing them the choice and will be their doctor either way. They are in charge of their mind and bodies and he just wants to give them safe passage on the journey.

After reading chapter 2 I cannot imagine John Irving having to do the research for the procedures and medical history - some of the methods used made me shiver with horror!

Soph wrote: Also the part where the second family beat baby Homer to make him cry. I felt like going round their fictional house and bouncing them off the walls (and I am NOT a violent person at all!)...."
--------------
I recently read the controversial book Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything. In the book he uses his economic theories to explain various events. One such event is the considerable fall in the U.S. crime rate. He posits that there is a correlation and causation between Roe V. Wade and the falling crime rate. Because poorly educated, unloved, abused, and unwanted children who live in poverty are more likely to commit crimes. Of course not all children born in these difficult circumstances commit crimes. However many do. He is not advocating uses abortion and a crime fighting tool as the clip below notes. He looks at other factors that others cite for the falling rate and shows why they are not the reason. It's a controversial theory like I said. However, when you read or listen to the book on audio as I did he does make a compelling case. I found the book cogent and absorbing.

Here is a short YouTube from the book. The book goes into more detail. However, you can get a good notion of his ideas from the movie clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk6gOe...

Alias Reader wrote:He seems to accept the world is a complicated and difficult place and wants to 'be of use' in the best way he can..."

-------------
I am only up to chapter 2. However, what you wrote makes me think of the of some of the quotes I wrote in my journal.

Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. -- John Wooden basketball player and coach

I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not fail to do the something that I can do!" --Edward Everett Hale

Focus on what you can contribute and let all the rest go. Just get in there and do your best. Queen Noor

We may not be able to do great things, but we can do small things with great love. -- Mother Teresa

Chapter 2

Rape, incest, prostitution, sex before marriage, financial stress, emotional stress - all causes for unwanted pregnancies and the need for an abortion or an orphanage. As much as Mrs. Santa Claus was a butcher, she understood the pain of these women. I read book :The Story of Jane: The Legendary Underground Feminist Abortion Service|676543]

which documents the history of the abortion movement in the 60's and 70's. These women did the same service as Mrs. Claus for most of the same reasons, but to include "the inconvenience" of a pregnancy. I have been in that position and it is a difficult decision and do not wish it on anyone, but I do believe that women deserve better than all this and too read the Freaknomics article about abortion and the crime rate. But after the Gosnell trail, I decided to be more vocal in my right to choose life. Today abortion is used more a birth control. There are plenty of free clinics that offer birth control and prenatal care etc. Now is it just irresponsibility? Several black conservatives have just written about the decimation of the African American community by abortion and the overall decline of the family and its affects. Dr. Larch states that things were better when abortion was legal. I wonnder what he would say about it today?

Dr. Larch showed tremendous compassion for the girls in his care. The way he was treated at the Preston house was horrible. But I commend him for mandating that the boyfriend observe the procedure!

It was such a long time ago that I saw the movie, that I have forgotten this part of the story line.

Brief history of abortion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_...

Another good quick read on the history of adoption in US http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/artic...

CATHY
I read book :The Story of Jane: The Legendary Underground Feminist Abortion Service|676543]

Another good quick read on the history of adoption in US http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/artic...
=======================

Thanks for the book and the link.

I wasn't able to read more last night. I hope to start chapter 3 today.

Alias Reader wrote:I recently read the controversial book Freakonomics: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything. In the book he uses his economic theories to explain various events. One such event is the considerable fall in the U.S. crime rate.

Thanks for the link Alias, the video was very interesting. So much of that makes perfect sense even if you wouldn't automatically make the connection. I don't think it is controversial at all since he says it is correlation, which only suggests rather than confirms causation (which is important to state in using data), but of course this subject will always be seen as such for other reasons.

Added to the effect of Roe v Wade I would also put education about reproductive health and birth control up there with affecting these statistics. It is probably no coincidence that so many radical feminist movements were in full swing around this time. Education, access to services and choice are definitely the keystones to a better / fairer society.

I have added the book to my TBR because I am fascinated with how data works and the unusual ways it can be applied. It sounds like an engrossing read!

Alias Reader wrote: "Alias Reader wrote:He seems to accept the world is a complicated and difficult place and wants to 'be of use' in the best way he can..."

-------------
I am only up to chapter 2. However, what you..."

These quotes are great. They really do sum up the essence of Dr Larch. I have just finished chapter three and there is more of this usefulness of spirit about him, and genuine regard for his work and his dealings with Homer. I have a lot I want to say about chapter 3 and Dr Larch's actions in it, but I want to read it back over. I am loving the detail and thoughtfulness of this book. That seems like a strange word to use but it really feels like the story is crafted with care and filled with meaning. I love this about Irving's books, they are full of motifs and themes to get your teeth into, but also have real heart.

Hope everyone is enjoying it as much!

Chapter 3

I'm still reading chapter 3.

It nice to see how the Dr. strives to give Homer confidence.

I also like the quote from David Copperfield. It actually is pretty deep if one thinks about it.
"The hero of my own life"

I thought it was so sweet when the dr. says, "Good Night you princes of Maine, you kings of New England !"

As the book notes it is so uplifting and full of hope. Like you, Soph, I really like Dr. L. Though the ether thing is troubling.

Of course the scene with Melony and the snake immediately made me think of Adam and Eve. Because Melony is trying to put the idea into Homer's head to look up his adoption records. Good writing !

It's mentioned that Homer repeats the end of sentences. I wonder if he has some form of echolalia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echolalia

Books mentioned so far


David CopperfieldCharles Dickens

Great ExpectationsCharles Dickens

Jane EyreCharlotte Brontë

"Good-night you princes of Maine, you kings of New England." -- One of my favorite lines in the book.

Dr. Larch was addicted to ether. In chapter one it revealed that Dr. Larch contracted gonorrhea from the prostitute Mrs. Eames. He became addicted to sniffing ether when he discovered that the "light, tasty vapor was an effective killer of his pain."

I just acquired Great Expectations by Charles Dickens--
"The Oxford Illustrated Dickens" 1953 edition from the UK.
(I love books, especially older ones in mint condition.)

Last month, I read Charles Dickens by Claire Tomalin- she did an excellent biography.

Also watched Masterpiece DVD Little Dorrit. This film was amazing!! Most of Dickens' novels are on Netflix -- I've seen Bleak House and The Mystery of Edwin Drood. I believe I'm becoming a "Dicken's fan."

I am loving reading all of the comments so far about this book. I'd never read it or seen the movie and I am really enjoying it so far. Growing up I was always extremely pro-life. Typical teenager... not able to see the grays, everything was black or white. It's only been in the last several years, actually, that I've realized how convoluted and complicated the issue is. Reading a book like this, I feel so much compassion for these women and for Dr. Larch, who is trying to do the right thing. He is such a likable character. I am really looking forward to seeing Michael Caine's portrayal of him in the movie.

Alias - I hadn't thought of the Adam & Eve connection, but it makes complete sense! I love the imagery Irving uses, although it makes for a slower read because I want to catch every word. :)

Carol wrote: "I just acquired Great Expectations by Charles Dickens--
"The Oxford Illustrated Dickens" 1953 edition from the UK.
(I love books..."

Nice. I enjoy his books, too.

Nikki wrote: It's only been in the last several years, actually, that I've realized how convoluted and complicated the issue is. Reading a book like this, I feel so much compassion for these women and for Dr. Larch, who is trying to do the right thing..."

-----------------------------

chapter 3 ***** SPOILER*****


I am still reading chapter 3.

I didn't expect to learn what we did in this chapter about Mrs. Eames daughter. (view spoiler)[ that she was the women in the photo with the pony (hide spoiler)]

What is so sad is the realization that in real life there are some poor souls that live a life of horrors, much like Mrs. Eames daughter, from the moment they are born. Why people aren't in an uproar about that is what is confusing.

I agree with you, Nikki. Reading expands your world so you can see the shades of gray. It teaches you to think deeply about complex topics.

Nikki wrote: Alias - I hadn't thought of the Adam & Eve connection, but it makes complete sense! ..."
----------------

I don't know that I am right, but that is how it seemed to me.

Cathy wrote: "Homer has found his home - it is where he feels loved, cared for, and useful. But this chapter prompted me search for the orphanages in CT. This was an interesting read: http://www.highlandheightsorphanage.c..."

In the mid 1930s during the Depression, my dad was placed in an orphanage called Children's Village near University of Hartford. It was a horrid place. He lived there for 4 years.

First I love that Homer was given the position to read to both the girls and then boys. I also like that the books were based on orphan children, just like the characters in this book. It gave the orphans a way for them to see how both Jane Eyre and David Copperfield persevered.

Melony is a bitter, angry young lady. She had been to and returned from more foster homes than Homer. I can't believe that any child would be so terrible as to repeatedly biting the family dog.

Homer’s sexual experience with Melony marks his departure from childhood into adolescence, a time of confusion and deception. For the first time, he has something to hide from Dr. Larch.


*******CH 3 SPOILER*******

I was surprised by Melony's behavior (educating Homer sexually). Obviously her past placements where brief due to her sexual encounters. She tried to use Homer to get her records, but little did she know that it was Larch’s policy to destroy all records of an orphan’s natural mother. He felt it was in the best interest of the orphans.

Homer lies to the young orphans, telling them that Fuzzy Stone has been adopted. Here he truly leaves behind his youthful innocence, as he calls out “Good night, Fuzzy Stone!” into the wilderness. Homer also says goodbye to his childhood.


FYI --
In the afterword and notes to the Ballantine Books edition of his novel, Irving explains how he developed the work. Irving chose to set the story in an orphanage because he realized, in his research, that women seeking an abortion when it was illegal in the United States (from 1846 and 1873) would be likely to visit an orphanage hospital, where doctors might prefer to give a woman an abortion rather than see one more orphan left behind. Irving’s paternal grandfather, Dr. Frederick C. Irving, was an obstetrician and author of books including The Expectant Mother’s Handbook and A Textbook of Obstetrics. Irving drew upon the information in these older texts in order to write some of the medical information in the earlier chapters.

*******CH 4 SPOILER: Young Dr. Wells*******

Dr. Larch taught Homer to be his assistant. Dr. Larch’s knows that Homer had no choice but to learn obstetrical procedures. Dr. Larch wants Homer to know some kind of "society experience" before he makes a decision as to what he wants to do with his life. Now 20 years old, Homer had been a midwife to countless births, and a surgical apprentice to many abortions. Dr. Larch will not let Homer to perform an abortion, believing that Homer should attend a real medical school and then have Homer make a choice. In order to be his choice, Homer would have to know something about society of which there was none in St. Cloud’s. Larch also wanted someone outside St. Cloud’s to sponsor Homer’s education.

Dr. Larch went to pick up the third cadaver at the railway, when Homer founds a young woman suffering from convulsions (brought on by eclampsia.) It was a long, difficult evening, but Homer administered the proper medical care and saved both the woman and her baby. The mother wanted the baby boy to be adopted, and Homer named him, "David Copperfield."

Finally Dr. Larch came back from the train station with the cadaver. (The stationmaster put him on a rail chase which Dr. Larch, after going to many stations, finally retrieved the cadaver.) When he arrived back home, he found Homer sleeping soundly after his 40-hour ordeal.

Actually, Homer pretended to be asleep when Dr. Larch came in. He cried silently when he received his first fatherly kisses (for Larch kissed him twice) and heard Larch’s words: “Good work, my boy.” These were the first kisses Dr. Larch had given anyone since his night with Mrs. Eames. Dr. Larch wondered what he would do when Homer left.

Dr. Larch also prevented Homer from going to war (he was of age) by stating that Homer had a heart defect, which would prevent him from being drafted into the war. If it became necessary, Dr. Larch would tell Homer that his heart wouldn’t stand up to war. But what Dr. Larch really meant was that his heart could not stand up to Homer going to war. In fact, in an entry into Homer’s file, which he later removed, Dr. Larch wrote: “I love nothing or no one as much as I love Homer Wells. Period.”

Actually Dr. Larch had become very attached to Homer and Fuzzy, because he was very close to them. So Dr. Larch created "fictional stories with happy endings."He wrote about a few orphans who died in his care, by providing their lives with happy endings. Fuzzy Stone lived the life Dr. Larch wanted for Homer. In Fuzzy’s fictional history, he became a doctor that attended Larch’s alma maters, and even interned at the hospitals where Larch had worked.

Lots of new characters -- young Wally Worthington and his girlfriend, Candice “Candy” Kendall who everyone sees as "the perfect couple" are now dealing with a pregnancy that they decided not to have a child. Wally asked Grace Lynch, an brutally abused and battered wife who cowered with fear when anyone talked to her, told Wally about St. Cloud’s. Wally convinces his mother, Olive, to give them the day off. Wally and Candice would leave early in the morning for St. Cloud’s. That night neither of them slept. Neither Homer, nor Dr. Larch could sleep that night either. Seeing Homer walking outside, Dr. Larch joins him.