Stephen King Fans discussion

Sorry for the delay all, I'm traveling and have been busy! Please discuss, but remember ro clearly mark spoilers. Thanks!

I read this one last month, but I will keep an eye on the discussion and join in.

This book raised a lot of questions for me.

I have never lost a child but did lose my husband which took awhile to get over; I never wanted to die, like Joe, and was able to move forward, but then grief is so unique to each individual.

What were your feelings toward Joe in the beginning? How did you feel about his life post-crash?

I think this book definitely resonated with me more as a father and husband than it would have 15 years ago as a single man. I could really feel the heartache and desperation.

That's a good point, Matthew, as we do feel things differently at different points in our lives.

When reading about this tragedy or the aftermath of other tragedies , some people will say,
"It'll get better with time."

In your opinion, DO things get better with time? They clearly didn't in Joe's case.

It would depend on the situation, but I don't think the situation Joe deals with would get much better over time for me.

You're right, Matthew; how does one recover from losing a wife and 2 daughters all at once ?! I guess that I have always believed that "time heals". I know in my case, as months turn into years, grief lessens but things, although better, really very good, are always different, never the same. The hole in one's heart always remains.

I am wondering, noticing the date Oct. 15, attached to this thread: are we to put off discussion of this book until that date? Will more members be ready to discuss on the 15th ?? You and I, Matthew, are having a nice dialogue but....

Probably okay to discuss, but others may be waiting until that day to start. I can go either way!

OK, makes sense then to wait until the 15th.
Look forward to getting into the book w/ you et. al. after that date :)

Becky wrote: "Sorry for the delay all, I'm traveling and have been busy! Please discuss, but remember ro clearly mark spoilers. Thanks!"

Thank you for starting the thread! I was traveling home that day and forgot to set up the post. I have no idea why that says October 15th everyone! You can start discussing now.

Thanks Angie!

One question this book brings to mind is a question I frequently have when reading stories like this: how long after crazy stuff starts happening would you be like "okay, here's what's happening, guess I am gonna have to respond accordingly"? For example, let's say the zombie apocalypse starts, are you just gonna be like "yup, this is what's up, and get comes my brother and he is drooling so I better chop him in the head with a machete"?

My point being, in stories like that (as in Soul Survivor) crazy things start happening and I always feel like the main characters are quick to accept it. I suppose you have to keep the stort moving along, but if I start getting chased by people with guns and someone tells me it is because I was a biological military experiment gone wrong I am not likely to just accept it (and I would probably be dead meat as a result!)

I understand your point, Matthew, but I wonder.... what options you would have. You, one person, against these big establishments, medical companies, government agencies.... what would your chances be of making some impact ?? You say that ,"I am not likely to just accept it", but what would you do? Would you be like Joe who had always accepted the "party-line" re. the crash and the probable causes of why it went down,but meeting/talking to Rose in the cemetery started to awaken new thoughts in his mind and he started to change. WHAT started to change for Joe and HOW would talking to Rose make you feel?

Betsy wrote: "I understand your point, Matthew, but I wonder.... what options you would have. You, one person, against these big establishments, medical companies, government agencies.... what would your ch..."

I guess my hope is that if something fishy was going on I would realize it and accept it (and start doing something about it) sooner than later. If I don't - if I was the main character in these books, they would be about 15 pages long.

How much would it take for me to accept that martial law has been declared and I need to start defending my hose with a machete? I always have cars in front of my house - what if one was a government agency tracking me? The characters in these books would look out the front window and immediately say (on page 5) "That car doesn't look right - guess I better escape out the back door!"

So, I've been traveling and pretty much out of everything, but I did start reading this book... on an airplane no less, in some pretty rough weather even. anyway, I'm exactly half way through and not sure I can comment on much of this till I get a little bit farther. But I will say this, I was pretty much identifying with Joe as things got started. If that had happened to me with a young wife and kids wI'd have gone that way myself.

Michelle's mother Beth , to whom Joe is close, tells Joe , on the 1 year anniversary of the crash, that ".... there's a reason you're still here."

I've always wondered about that. Do you believe that there are reasons for everything, even if we don't know what they are?

Welcome back, Nick; I always look forward to your opinions/comments !

Betsy wrote: "Do you believe that there are reasons for everything, even if we don't know what they are?"

Whenever there is a disaster where lives are lost you always hear stories in the aftermath of lives touching each other in ways they would not have without the disaster. There is the town in Canada where all the planes landed during 9/11 and people met there and got married, still go back to visit people they met, etc. While 9/11 was terrible, those lives were changed for the better. So, you have to wonder . . .

That's a nice story, Matthew, and one I've never heard of. So, does it make sense to you that there IS a reason for everything?

I don't believe in coincidences. So MANY times in my life something has happened and I have felt that it was meant to be. So, Joe IS still here for a reason, as Beth says? And, that reason would be....?

Is it that things happen for a reason, or that we try to make the most of a bad situation? At least, those of us that are okay looking for silver linings . . .

In the case of the book, I see Joe as still being there to help uncover the truth.

I think that was exactly what started to change for Joe after talking to Rose in the cemetery : like you said, Joe felt that he had a right to know the truth.
He now wanted/needed to live; he had a purpose.

What were your first impressions of Rose? How would talking to Rose make you feel?

Betsy wrote: "I think that was exactly what started to change for Joe after talking to Rose in the cemetery : like you said, Joe felt that he had a right to know the truth.
He now wanted/needed to live; he ..."

So, I like Rose... so far anyway, and I'm 3/4 through the book. Although, she seems almost too serene, and then she abruptly flips out. (view spoiler)[I'm having a hard time balancing the idillic moods of people just before they kill themselves and then the horrible actions they perform. I'm getting a sense that all of this will be explained very shortly but it threw me for quite a while. Joe as a truth seeker is a very good character, I think. His reporter background gives him the talent he needs to get to the bottom of things, and his relationship with his father sets him up to be a pretty tough guy, which is what he needs to be. My concern now is the resolution. Is the "immortality project" (as I'm starting to call it for myself) really enough to explain all that's happening? We'll see. (hide spoiler)]

I was conflicted about Rose for awhile; she seemed too good to be true, mysterious, and I didn't know if I could trust her.
Yes, things are explained as the plot evolves re. people feeling euphoric and then committing suicide; at first, that was a stretch for me too.

What were YOUR thoughts when those related to crash victims started committing suicide.... and they never screamed?? How did you explain that to yourself?

Betsy wrote: "I was conflicted about Rose for awhile; she seemed too good to be true, mysterious, and I didn't know if I could trust her.
Yes, things are explained as the plot evolves re. people feeling euphor..."

For me it was very unreal... (view spoiler)[ had to be some kind of mind altering effect, either a drug, some kind of sound signal, hypnotism. It wasn't too alarming when the pilot started acting out, I just thought he was nuts. But when the others started feeling wonderful and then murdering themselves in the most horrible ways it was clear the drive for those feelings and actions was coming from the outside. Rose mentions it on the beach, and she sort of previewed it, I thought, when she took pictures of graves and said everything is going to be all right. IMHO Mr. Koontz has a lot of explaining to do... and I'm sure he will. (hide spoiler)]

My first thought was it had to be drugs; I just didn't know enough then to understand HOW, and I didn't know how/why it related to families of the crash victims.
You're right, Nick....Koontz has a lot of explaining to do and.... it better be good !

When Rose started talking ~29% Kindle about "Something that would change all of us; .... forever change the world," (rather lofty, IMO)....
Did this sound believable to you; did you find it credible? Were you expecting this book to have a supernatural slant to it?
Did you like the direction that it was taking?

With Koontz - I always expect a supernatural slant! (and golden retrievers)

Matthew wrote: "With Koontz - I always expect a supernatural slant! (and golden retrievers)"

Betsy wrote: "When Rose started talking ~29% Kindle about "Something that would change all of us; .... forever change the world," (rather lofty, IMO)....
Did this sound believable to you; did you find it credi..."

I'm 80% done now. Could finish tonight or tomorrow. I got the sense that Rose was talking about some kind of link to immortality but I didn't really think it would take a turn toward (view spoiler)[the scientific proof of creationism. (hide spoiler)] That really did throw me. BTW is this typical Koontz writing style? What do you think of it compared to say Mr. King?

I think I read on GReads that King/Koontz don't have much in common except where they sit alphabetically on a bookstore shelf, that Koontz is a lazy man's King(whatever that means, as I feel Koontz does his research and checks his facts), a King wannabe, and it's like comparing a Big Mac to a fish sandwich but, in my mind, it's all a matter of personal preference.
Although I strongly prefer King's writing, both have their own voice, are solid successful storytellers and versatile authors who make the big bucks.
Maybe their biggest difference is that King is associated more with horror, although recently that seems to be retreating into the background while Koontz is categorized more a thriller while both utilize the supernatural (as we see in SOLE SURVIVOR). I do feel that King is scarier/darker, esp. in his early books. Koontz, to me, tends to over-explain, becomes too wordy, almost preachy, but the books I've read usually leave us w/ some feeling of hope.
My biggest attachment to King is his connection to his characters and how he transfers this strong connection to his readers. I remember King's characters LONG after finishing his books where this doesn't happen for me w/ Koontz. King's characterization is the BEST, IMO. I am reading DOLORES CLAIBORNE now, and I KNOW her; she is so vivid, real to me and this is what makes him the special one, for me.
Didn't mean to ramble but that is a thought-provoking question you posed, Nick. And, btw, I do think that SOLE SURVIVOR is very "typical Koontz writing style."

Betsy wrote: "I think I read on GReads that King/Koontz don't have much in common except where they sit alphabetically on a bookstore shelf, that Koontz is a lazy man's King(whatever that means, as I feel Koontz..."

Yeah, Koontz's story is okay... not sure at all about the research, but his actual writing style is pretty clumsy, I think. All those metaphors and similes just stuck in anywhere, and not especially well integrated into his sentences. (I should make a list of them). For some reason I do care about his characters, especially, in this case, Joe. His love for his wife really struck a chord with me. But he doesn't create much atmosphere. The scene of everyone running along the beach to escape the bad guys was okay. But you can imagine what King could have done with a scene like that.

Perhaps Koontz would benefit from a read of King's ON WRITING ? I don't mean to bash Koontz b/c I have read/enjoyed many of his books and there are moments of suspense throughout this book - things that string you along making you wonder what is happening:

(view spoiler)[ 1. When Rose is in the cemetery taking pics. of gravestones and says "I'm not read to talk to you yet; I'll be back when it's time." Time for what? 2. "My life depends on your discretion; I was aboard Flight 353 (Rose). So, she survived? 3. The suicides were suspenseful b/c they didn't make sense at the time. 4. Rose= "They're looking for me." Why? 5. When Joe went to see the chief crash investigator and asked, "Who are you afraid of, Barbara? And she said, "I don't know who they are but they pulled strings I never thought could be pulled." Who's "they"? 6. When the plane went off course, veering off the flight path and the Captain is saying all those strange things. 7. Knowing that Rose had a young child w/ her at the Ealing ranch whom she called Nina and Joe's daughter is Nina and 8. The idea of being "remoted", to name a few (hide spoiler)] . So,things like that did keep my interest of wanting to find out more.

The last quarter of the book has gotten much better, not the writing, but the story, the whole idea of the secret scientific project, it's details and effects. I had to admit that the way they (view spoiler)[(the scientists) had the kid take over people's minds and made them destroy themselves, the kid himself, the "iron lung-type device in which he was held, the fact that he was a rebel who had his own destructive nature, and was calling out for help through the pilot's conversation, that was all pretty great (hide spoiler)]It does shoot new meaning through all the previous horrific scenes. I was hoping for that but starting to have my doubts.

I have been thinking about the aftermath of the crash.
After listening to Mercy Ealing's story about that night, Joe has hope again that (view spoiler)[ his Nina is still alive (hide spoiler)].
Did you share this hopeful feeling? (view spoiler)[ Did it seem believable to you that these two would survive? (hide spoiler)]
Is Rose just leading him on? (view spoiler)[ IF it were "his" Nina, why would Rose keep her from Joe that entire year? (hide spoiler)].

Betsy wrote: "I have been thinking about the aftermath of the crash.
After listening to Mercy Ealing's story about that night, Joe has hope again that [spoilers removed].
Did you share this hopeful feeling? [s..."

Unless there's some big surprise coming up in the last 20 or so pages the answer is (view spoiler)[I did share the hopeful feeling, but Rose IS leading him on. The Nina who saved Rose is not his daughter. But Rose had to do something to get him to take her to that hidden cabin in Big Bear. Of course I haven't really gotten to the end yet. (hide spoiler)]

OK, so here's the $100 question:

WHO was the SOLE survivor, in your opinion??

Betsy wrote: "OK, so here's the $100 question:

WHO was the SOLE survivor, in your opinion??"

I'm sure I have to finish the book to answer that. Probably this evening.

Betsy wrote: "OK, so here's the $100 question:

WHO was the SOLE survivor, in your opinion??"


Sorry Betsy, I really tried to like this book; I think it took a positive turn for a while and then went the other way. In the end, in spite of a few strong moments, I was disappointed. When Joe and Nina meet there should have been some real magic, not just the start of an another endless chase scene. There were some creative ideas, some pretty good character development and a few nice surprises, but all in all Koontz seemed to resort to trickery whenever he had a chance to do something really good with the story. All of this on top of a writing style that had no magic to it at all. I started reading Salam's Lot at the end of this read and the comparison was sobering: art vs. wordplay. Oh, in answer to your question - the sole survivor? Not sure, could have been Rose or Joe or Nina for that matter.

Nick, No need to apologize as I only gave this a 2 star rating, certainly not a favorite nor a book that I'd recommend, and I agree with your comments. I will add that I do think that Koontz jumped onto his soapbox here re. spiritual redemption, everlasting life, mind control, etc. and it just didn't come together for me, making the ending a mess. However, even though I don't like a book, I do like a good discussion so I just plug away at it, but that's just me.
In my opinion, Joe had to be the SOLE survivor. My logic:(view spoiler)[ we were led to believe that Rose was the ONLY one who walked away from the crash which would make her the sole survivor , but she turned up at the Ealing ranch WITH a young child so, it couldn't be Rose.
Then we're led to believe that this young child might be Nina, Joe's daughter, when she really was 21-21 from Project 99 so she couldn't be the sole survivor b/c she survived the crash WITH Rose. Then there's Joe, who lost his entire family, his wife and two daughters, the ONLY one left of his family, making Joe, the SOLE survivor. (hide spoiler)] That's how my goofy head works :)
Perhaps we've had enough discussion as it has come down to just we two, eh? Hang it up and move on ??
I too just finished a Stephen King book which I LOVED, DOLORES CLAIBORNE, IMO, a very underrated, underestimated King book. That book is something I am looking forward to discussing for the Nov. BOTM !!

Betsy wrote: "Nick, No need to apologize as I only gave this a 2 star rating, certainly not a favorite nor a book that I'd recommend, and I agree with your comments. I will add that I do think that Koontz jumped..."

I agree, but if there are people out there still working their way through the book, it might be good to hear what they think.

I read this book years ago and loved it. One of the first books I read with astral projection. Governmental child abuse is just to easy see actually happening - especially for "homeland security." The umbilical twist near the end and what it all means can prepare you (somewhat) for other works of Koontz - I'm thinking of Innocence, a book I still can't find a way to review because it was so damn good I cried and so damn bad I was speechless with pure WTF?!?!

Lena wrote: "I read this book years ago and loved it. One of the first books I read with astral projection. Governmental child abuse is just to easy see actually happening - especially for "homeland security." ..."


Thanks Lena. I still don't get it, but it's good to know that there's probably more than I saw in the book and some real Koontz fans out there.

Good to hear from you, Lena, and I like your ideas.
Although I didn't especially like SOLE SURVIVOR , it did lead to some interesting speculations: labs that are conducting paranormal research and "making" people in a lab where children are born chemically do exist e.g we do have test tube babies and there is cloning etc. I think that the ethical component needs to be considered more but....
I agree that INNOCENCE was "....so damn good", although I didn't find it WTF bad. Interesting tale!
Thanks for your thoughts!

Love these conversations! (view spoiler)[I guess for me the twist shock was both these stories becoming religious tales. It's more subtle in soul survivor - umbilical to God - but in innocence it was all suddenly the book of revelation according to some Christian derivation. The first half, if not the first three quarters were an Oprah level humanity story with paranormal elements or magical realism - then switcheroo! Still, highly memorable. (hide spoiler)]. I also liked Door to December the first time I read it, but the second time I thought it ended too quickly! I've found Koontz books to be more scary scifi than horror.

Hey guys and gals! I've been a group member for a while and I'm a huge Stephen King fan, but this is the first chance I've had to participate in the group read. I'm starting the book today, and from what I've seen the group seemed to have mixed feelings about it. Very curious now.

So glad, Quentin, that you will be participating in the group read! Will be curious to see what YOUR take on the book will be.

I've never read a book where even all of the dialogue is first person. So far nobody has had an actual conversation, it's just been the MC telling what people say. Is the entire book like that?

Weird. I didn't remember that but I'm pretty sure that changes.

Lena wrote: "I read this book years ago and loved it. One of the first books I read with astral projection. Governmental child abuse is just to easy see actually happening - especially for "homeland security." ..."

Okay, Lena, I needed a drive with audio book to go with my late night reading of Pet Cemetery, so I got the audio of Innocence. I'll let you know how I like it. But the sample audio sounded very good.

Oh I would love to know your thoughts! I think you will be impressed and in tears... and then we'll see what you think of the rest. :)

Lena wrote: "Oh I would love to know your thoughts! I think you will be impressed and in tears... and then we'll see what you think of the rest. :)"

Let's see what happens. :-) I start tomorrow morning. Tonight I'm with the Creed family who just found out that the path behind their new house leads to a pet cemetery.

I don't think that's going to turn out well for them. I'm reading my way to The Tower, starting Wizard and Glass (845 pages thank you very much) next month. My friend and I took the month off to read Doctor Sleep, another gem. So many books I want to read!!!

Lena wrote: "I don't think that's going to turn out well for them. I'm reading my way to The Tower, starting Wizard and Glass (845 pages thank you very much) next month. My friend and I took the month off to re..."

I read Pet Cemetery before, read all of King's novels. W & G is my favorite King book, my favorite book period. Not sure what it says about me, since some people don't like it at all and skip it when reading the Dark Tower series. Let me know what you think when you get through it. Better avoid my 5 star review though. It's full of spoilers.