Vaginal Fantasy Book Club discussion

This is our ALT PICK for April.

PLEASE NOTE: This book has very strong scenes with abuse and rape (and incest). It is very dark, and if you are sensitive to these issues, I definitely urge you to forego this alt for the month.

An Alt-Alt to enjoy could be Eloisa James' "A Kiss at Midnight". She has a whole series of fairy tales transplanted to Regency England that are delightful.

Thanks all!!

This is a difficult read, but it is very, very good. McKinley is a great writer and does not trivialize the dark things that happen in this book. I found that certain things did trigger some negative things in me, but I was able to work through it in a productive and cathartic way. (May not be the same for everyone.)

I agree that subject matter could be hard to handle for some, but if you're at all curious I would encourage you to read! It's a beautifully told story and one of my all-time favorite books - I re-read it at least once a year. McKinley is an excellent writer and I feel that this book has elements that would resonate with a lot of different people - Lissar's dog Ash will seem familiar to anyone with a passing acquaintance with a four-legged friend, and I really enjoy that the hero is not your standard (bland) handsome fantasy prince. I'm excited to hear what the rest of the group thinks and hope you all like it!

Hi Felicia, I just wanted to say thank you for the warning. I can handle pretty much anything in a romance novel as long as it's consensual. I will pass on this one and maybe I'll check out A kiss at Midnight instead. Thank you for thinking of us :)

It's very nice of you to include a trigger warning and on top of that, even picking an Alt-Alt. It's very much appreciated!

I have read some of Robin McKinley's other books and loved them, so I am really grateful for the trigger warning. I don't get "triggered" but there are things I prefer not to read. Looking forward to the main pick though!

I think there is some confusion as to who is being warned against. It is NOT the hero. Also, this isn't a romance first, though it does have a remarkably sweet romance (well, based on reading it years ago and reviewing the end just now).

If my library has it, I'll get it. I'm willing to give it a go but will put it down if I find it too horrible.

In light of Felicia's comment about people not wanting to participate due to negativity, I thought we could use this official discussion for our positive thoughts about the book. I created a new thread called Deerskin Critique for us to use for our strong opinions about our dislikes.

No idea if this will work.

I agree -- this is a wonderful and powerful book, but I wouldn't describe it as a romance. It's the story of how a young girl comes back from a horrible trauma, with the help of her own strength and the support of symbolic and/or mythical forces. It's very different from other Robin McKinleys, and VERY VERY different from her other fairy tale retellings. It is heartbreaking and regenerating.

Maybe the alt-alt should have been McKinley's Beauty, which is more of a romance.

I'd like to echo Serendi above and say that the hero is NOT a rapist. The rape and abuse happen early in the book and the rest is the story of the main character's healing. It is very hard to read, and I don't blame people who don't want to, but I just want to make sure people aren't avoiding it because of a misunderstanding.

(Edit: Just to extra clarify, if you will be triggered by the book, don't read it! Take care of yourself. Be safe! I just wanted to make it clear what the triggering content is so that people can make the best decision for themselves. Love you all! <3)

Jessica wrote: "I'd like to echo Serendi above and say that the hero is NOT a rapist. The rape and abuse happen early in the book and the rest is the story of the main character's healing. It is very hard to read,..."

Thanks for clarifying! I hope everyone tries the book out as it's supposed to be amazing and very high quality, but trying to be considerate! Can't promise I can be on top of everything like this, but it was strong enough feedback in the reviews I thought it prudent.

Of course, I do not know where a lot of people's lines are crossed (as it probably floats for each person) so I urge everyone, if this is an issue for them, to take it upon themselves to do research for their own reading pleasure before diving in as well! Hopefully the alt alt is fun for everyone who opts out :)

One note (apologies if this is obvious, but it feels like a quick reiteration would put the subject to rest):

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If an issue is a trigger for you (i.e. related to personal trauma), it usually doesn't matter who is doing what. If you're "just" sensitive to an issue (not trying to denigrate sensitivity, just trying to show the difference), then it might or might not.

Kudos to Serendi for differentiating +who+ is doing the issue-laden stuff, and to Felicia for providing a warning and an alternative.

I have full-blown PTSD (yes, like soldiers) due to issues that evidently appear in this book. As in, it would be physically dangerous to my health to read it. But I would NEVER condemn a book outright because it treats subject matter that's (for lack of a better word) bad for me, nor other readers because they want to read it. The treatment itself is everything.

Friends have told me for years that "Deerskin" is a fantastic story, wonderfully written, and it always saddens me to skip wonderful writing because I have to. But I genuinely hope that anyone who can read this book gives it a try, and that anyone who does read it through enjoys the experience.

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That's all I have to say. Off to check out the alt, in the hopes that it's as saucy as Kiala's last Eloisa James pick.

I have never participated before as romance is not really my genre, but I loved this book when I first read it (as a teen, probably 15 years ago) so I might reread it and try to join in this month! It actually prompted me to join the group (might take a go at the main book too, assuming there is some crossover thematically). Awesome!

Allison wrote: "I have never participated before as romance is not really my genre, but I loved this book when I first read it (as a teen, probably 15 years ago) so I might reread it and try to join in this month!..."

the other is fantasy as well Allison. No worries if you're not into romance. It's supposed to be reallllyyy good. I'm looking forward to it.

The descriptions in this thread have changed my mind. I think I'll give this one a shot. I wasn't going to... because, well, I read the blurb and it pretty much put me off at the alliterative "Princess Lissla Lissar." That's a goofy name. Queen Maureen Keepitclean. Sir Burr Ferder. Doctor Rock Proctor. King Sting Dingaling. It's got a whole "Master Blaster" quality to it.

Plus, the sibilant sent me lisping my way through the Life of Brian list: "Thitizenth. We have Thamthon the Thaggithea Thtrangler, Thilas the Athyrian Athathin, theveral thadiciouth thcribeth from Theatherea..." and Printheth Lithla Lithar!

But since a few folks have chimed in that this is a serious book, I'll have a look....

This is the first VF book that I have read and also own - I knew it would happen someday :)

Rereading it now. The violent scene is at the end of part one - about one or two pages which I skimmed so I could get to the rest of the story. Part 2 starts her journey, both a literal journey as well as one of healing. If you are okay with reading and/or quickly skimming the violent scene this book really is a good read, both the writing style and the world building.

Other fairy tale authors/books I recommend are: Tanith Lee (Red As Blood), Pamela Dean (Tam Lin), Patricia Wrede (Snow White and Rose Red) and Patricia McKillip (Winter Rose).

This book was difficult to read because of the rape but nearly impossible because of the violence involving animals (therein lies the problem of trigger warnings -- many people have experienced trauma regarding different things and you simply can't warn everyone about everything).

That said, this book was worth pushing through. It's a really beautiful story about surviving, growth, lifelines, healing, and protection.

There is a huge difference also between something being upsetting and something being *triggering*. I think people are losing that. Lots of people just don't like to read certain things. That's not what trigger warnings are about. For most people, reading things that make them uncomfortable can be a very valuable experience. It's a big part of learning, exploring uncomfortable things. Ignoring all those things in life is the worst way to live.

That is not the case with something that is actually triggering to a person, which is way different and worse than an uncomfortable experience. You don't trigger warning for animal abuse (though of course triggers are personal and something about animal abuse could trigger a person sure, but fireworks can trigger vets and you don't trigger warning for those either) because as a general rule that's the former (something uncomfortable), not the later (something that is going to set off an actual flashback in a person). Everyone trying to conflate the two is contributing the reactionary dismissal of trigger warnings we're seeing.

Allison wrote: "There is a huge difference also between something being upsetting and something being *triggering*. I think people are losing that. Lots of people just don't like to read certain things. That's not..."

well put Allison. I actually do agree with you. Just because something is uncomfortable doesn't mean we should ignore it. Often what's uncomfortable can teach us things we never knew or realized before. It's absolutely okay not to read this book if you really don't want to, but it could be a knowledgeable experience. For example, a lot of people are very uncomfortable about rape and so they don't educate themselves about rape. Which is fine, but its really better to know about the subject. I say follow Allison's well put post.

I had never heard of "Donkeyskin" which the story is said to be inspired by so i was reading with a completely blank slate.

I agree with other reviewers that this book is not for everyone due to trauma described. Its pretty dark but i am glad i did read it.

I'm giving it 4 out of 5 - Interesting twist on a classic fairytale and i loved Ossin, the love interest. He's my type of Prince

What a lovely, thoughtful thread.

I read Deerskin quite a number of years ago, and while I adore Robin McKinley, it's a book I'm glad to read once and only once (so far, in my life ... if I change my mind, the book is there).

But I'm piping in here, despite not properly introducing my newbie self, because that such a challenging work would be chosen for Internet discussion AND to see such a mature and thoughtful conversation about it - it's very impressive and a nice respite from online tomfoolery.

I have another alt alt suggestion. Meljean Brook's steampunk novella "Wrecked" has a similar initial premise to Deerskin but the heroine is on the run before any assault can take place. Obviously, this would still be triggering for many people. Though Wrecked is steampunk rather than fairy-tale, it's also kind of a play on Snow White and the Huntsman.

Link to the author's website: http://meljeanbrook.com/books/the-iro...

Is anyone else having issues with finding this digitally? For some reason I can't find it on amazon or iBooks? Perhaps exhaustion? A link would be greatly appreciated here or on twitter @LoudLauraElena. Thank you in advanced.

I'd already read the main pick (though I intend to read again cause it's one of my favs), so I decided to read the alt first.

It took a bit to get into because the narrative is purposefully distanced being that it's told from the perspective of a badly neglected and socially abused child. I didn't fully appreciate the genius of this narrative choice until she gradually opens herself to the world around her and the narrative becomes so much more engaging at the same time. I've read many a Robin McKinley book... But this is so much more artful and gut wrenching than her other fairy tales. It's the difference between Disney and Bluebeard.

There's a part of the book where Lissar describes her prince as the man who holds the "two halves of her broken heart:" That was what this book was to me. It broke my heart multiple times but then patched it into something better. Sometimes you read books and feel like you've personally grown from reading them. This was one of those for me. Though I would agree that people who have a specific trigger should not read this book, I would heavily encourage anyone else, even someone just potentially uncomfortable, to read this. It gives a really fresh, insightful, and touching perspective on psychological healing.

Also, there are puppies.

Also, there is the single most attractive to me male lead I've ever read. Both for who he is and who he is to her:

"She remembered him as if he dressed in bright colors: red and green and yellow and blue. And yet his clothing was usually the drab practical sort one would want to wear in a kennel... She also thought of his face and hair and eyes as bright, when in fact he was as drab as his clothing, and his hair and eyes were a dull brown. But his smile lit his dull square features as fire lightens darkness; and so when her memory of him startled her when she set her eyes again on the reality, his smile reminded her of what she chose to remember."

The prose there. Just incredible. Wow. So glad this was a pick.

First Impression:

I... like it. I think.

I'm only a few chapters in. Her writing style threw me off for a minute. She affects (that's probably not fair, she "adopts" or "employs" or maybe it's her actual style) a fairy tale format and narrative voice for her version of a much older fairy tale. It's an apt and flavourful choice... but it took a minute to shift gears into it.

I just finished Name of the Wind by Rothfuss, and he does just about the exact opposite in that book. That is, he uses a very modern style and vocabulary in order to tell a story that is often very standard fantasy fair. It took a bit to make that adjustment, and the transition is a bit jarring. (Not really either authors' fault.)

I like that she makes the king/queen/parents the ideal fairy tale couple... and kind of neglectful, self-centered dicks. Cute.

At their best, some of the sequences remind me of Oscar Wilde's fairy and folk tales--and that's quite a compliment. Affecting/adopting/employing that fairy tale narrative voice but using a modern sense of story, detail and description makes for an interesting read. It's like looking at photos in sepia tones or listening to an LP, but it's new, crisp photo, or an LP with 21st century music.

In any case, tentative thumbs up so far.

Edit: Being a bit of a research-monkey, I often look for references, particularly if an author hangs one in the intro to her book, so here's the Wikisource for "Donkeyskin" by Charles Perrault upon which Deerskin is based. Spoilers almost certainly contained therein:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_fai...

@Laura - it's not available as an ebook, I looked everywhere.

smelly_gamer wrote: "I know this is stupid but...

Can somebody tell me if Ash dies? I'm finding myself unable to focus on the story because I'm constantly fretting about the dog. I just need to know one way or the oth..."

Here you go: (view spoiler)[ Ash does not die! (hide spoiler)]

smelly_gamer wrote: "I'm finding myself unable to focus on the story because I'm constantly fretting about the dog."

Reading about someone being cruel to a dog is pretty unpleasant. There are brutal scenes in this book, and I don't mean to minimize them, but I wonder if having the dog in there isn't making things a little too obvious. That is, we're already pretty convinced that the King/father is a piece of garbage pretty quickly. Do we need him to (view spoiler)[nearly kill Ash (hide spoiler)] too? Plus, she pulls a little fake out there, making us think (view spoiler)[Ash actually is dead (hide spoiler)] before revealing that's not the case. I'm waiting for him to punch the old lady next and then light an orphanage on fire.

Gary wrote: "First Impression:

I... like it. I think.

I'm only a few chapters in. Her writing style through me off for a minute. She affects (that's probably not fair, she "adopts" or "employs" or maybe it..."

Thanks for posting the link to "Donkeyskin!" I've been meaning to look up the back-story too.

This is a fantastic, though dark, book that has the feel of a traditional fairy tale. It's mostly about the main character recovering and growing strong.

Jessica wrote: "Thanks for posting the link to "Donkeyskin!" I've been meaning to look up the back-story too. "

You're welcome. It turns out the whole book (with other faerie tales) is up on Project Gutenberg:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29021

I just finished this, and actually really appreciated how thoughtful and self-aware this book was.

One thing I found really interesting that hasn't been mentioned yet was the relative little use of Lissar's/Deerskin's name; rather, McKinley overwhelmingly used the feminine pronouns instead. I found myself wondering if this was because women, as authors, just tend to use more pronouns (rather than proper nouns). Or if it was more practical, in that Lissar is often on her own, which doesn't require constantly reiterating someone's name. Or if it was reflective of Lissar's not feeling a connection to her name, and of her journey to discover, develop and heal.

Or potentially a mixture of the three. Did anybody else notice this? If so, what do you think the reasoning was behind this choice?

I will also say, as someone who had a similar abuse experience, that there were some moments in here that really resonated with me. (From the abuse itself, which I'll be honest I mostly skimmed, to Lissar's reaction to it.) For example, towards the end when Lissar can't seem to reconcile the knowledge that Ossin loves her with the feeling that she is somehow broken or unworthy of that love--that is particularly poignant. From having talked with fellow abuse survivors, it seems this is a constant struggle for many of us.

I loved this book, even with the painful events and trauma that occur.

I cried quite a lot with this book, because it hit close to home. I grew up with the most amazing two dogs, who both passed away a few months ago. This book reopened the wound a lot, but I'm happy I struggled through the book anyway. (I also have recent memories of sitting with a pile of puppies around/on me, and I now have a very active puppy who I had to hug every now and then while reading Deerskin.)

I did really like the book. I wasn't quite sure what to think of the fairy tale-like writing style at first, but it really grew on me. There were some sentences in the book that I found exceptionally beautiful and that really made me pause.

I found it intriguing how everyone wanted to project an image on Lissar; they never saw her for her. First they only saw her mother in her, afterwards everyone projected the tale of the Moonwoman on her. It was only Ossin who really saw her for who she was. (Not necessarily her identity as Princess Lissla Lissar, but more the nature of her character.)

Quite a lot of things were very black-and-white in this book, which is of course typical of fairy tales (which doesn't mean I don't regret a bit that those were not worked out more). Lissar's mother, her father. Even the looks of the Moonwoman and Lissar herself during parts of the book! ;)

I loved Lissar, but she had almost no negative qualities, making her a bit of a distant figure. Not a real human, but more an archetype.

It was a very intense read that really resonated with me.

Edit: I had seen/read Donkeyskin (and interpretations) of this before reading Deerskin. I was surprised at much the story differentiates from other texts. I'm quite happy they didn't included the part of the donkey: the king had a very prized donkey, who dropped gold, I believe. A fairy godmother figure tells the young woman to ask her father for the skin of the donkey, which she does. This always made me dislike the character a bit. (It is an attempt to ask the impossible of her father, if he fulfilled the asks she made, she would/might marry him.)

I also feel the need to share with you this picture of the beautiful Catherine Deneuve from the 1970's adaptation of the tale, Peau d'âne:



And this fanart of Lissar by Laura Ramie (x):

If people would like to read more about Donkeyskin, its adaptations, and how Deerskin relates to those, I'd recommend Donkeyskin, Deerskin, Allerleirauh: The Reality of the Fairy Tale by Helen Pilinovsky, which you can read here.

SurLaLune also has a lot of information on the tale.

smelly_gamer wrote: "I'm finding myself unable to focus on the story because I'm constantly fretting about the dog."

I had the same issue. I've been dealing with a sick fur baby the past few months so the parts where (view spoiler)[we are made to think Ash is dead (hide spoiler)] and (view spoiler)[gets injured again and almost dies (hide spoiler)] really did a number on my anxiety.

I read this book for the first time when I was 14 years old, and I honestly don’t think I totally understood the violent nature of some of the scenes in this book. I remember being horrified, but I must have blocked out a lot of what had happened; especially the chapters right after the rape, and the miscarriage. Now, as a 27 year old I think that I appreciate the book in a whole new way, though I am more disturbed by the idea of a father violently assaulting his own daughter. Unfortunately I did not find it as surprising this time around. I think it was very evident of what was coming, and as an adult I could see the clear progression of the King’s obsession for his daughter (which made the first third of the book hard to stomach), especially with the Queen’s ridiculous final request. The fact that it takes so long for him to have any type of consequences to his insanity is still surprising to me. I am still flabbergasted that no one stops him. I don’t care if he is a king, he is a creepy man. I did appreciate Lissar/Deerskin calling him out for his actions, the scene where she finally remembers everything and stands up for herself is a very empowering scene.
I did not find this book as romantic as Daughter of the Forest. In fact the protagonists Lissar/Deerskin and Ossin seemed more like best friends, whose relationship is sped up at the end of the novel. However I think this works since Lissar/Deerskin is recovering from such a traumatic event. I do wish they had more time to grow into the couple they try to become at the end of the novel. I also found the magic in this novel interesting, in that while it played a major part of her life, it was not a major part of the world (The author has a couple more books set in the same world and it seems to be the same, where magic is real, but not something used on a daily basis by everyone).

Overall I liked the book, though not as much as Daughter of the Forest. I am happy I read it again as an adult, even if it was somewhat disturbing, because I appreciated the story as a whole much more.

I did walk away from this book feeling like I loved my dog more than before I read it.

I don't usually participate in the forums, but I'm glad I checked out the threads on this.

Thank you so much for the trigger warning. I've heard of this book before, it's been recommended to me countless times, but no one's ever thought to warn me of it... I'm grateful to now be able to consider it with more awareness.

I'll also definitely check out the alt alt, sounds wonderful.

Thank you again, Felicia.

I am thoroughly enjoying this book so far. I'm a bit over half way done, and I think that McKinley did a fantastic job building the skin-crawling Part 1 and then following it with a ( psychologically) realistic recovery. Even though it is a tough read, I deeply respect the author's skills as a writer because as I physically cringed and cried, I still kept reading.

This was definitely an interesting read and I'm glad I read it, though it was a bit difficult to read at times. I think it really did cover a lot of difficult dark themes (child and animal abuse, neglect, rape, incest, etc) but it handled it in a way that really made me think about the repercussions of them and how they affect a person.

One thing I really liked about the book was the way the king and queens vanity was played as a very negative aspect. Initially, they are set up as the typical fairytale king and queen and you think you're supposed to root for them but then that gets turned on its head pretty quickly. I liked the way Lissar has this gut reaction to the creepy portrait and it's interesting (though very disturbing) how everyone in the kingdom seems to have fallen under the spell of the king and queens beauty except their obviously neglected daughter. I thought it was a great lead in to the rest of the story.

I found parts of the story hard to read, though I imagine it was intentional. Like many readers, I was disturbed by some situations regarding Ash (I don't know how to put in a spoiler but the specific situations are mentioned above). I found it almost painful to read how she basically shut out the world and had so little care for her own well-being, but that was really her lesson for the book, that she was worth caring for and that, indeed, she HAD to take care of her own needs as well as those of her dog(s).

I like how someone pointed out how people were constantly projecting what they wanted to or expected to see on Lissar because that was something I noticed but had a hard time putting words to. I think Lissar herself was struggling with finding her own identity outside what people thought of her and, like her, I found it really frustrating that people kept refusing to see her outside the parameters of what people expected (ie the queen's daughter, the Moon Woman). I think it was really significant that she was trying to find out for herself who she was and who she wanted to be and she goes from a very vague sketch of a character to one that is more fully realized through the course of the book. Even her relationships with other people go from sort of vague and unsatisfying to fuller, deeper friendships. I like that Ossin really sees her as a person and their relationship and how it develops is something I really enjoyed and appreciated. It was nice to see a story in which the way a character sees another character is reflected by their understanding of them and their personality rather than just looks. I definitely can relate to her sentiment that the personality of a person definitely colors how we see them.

One thing that I had a hard time with was understanding the magic in this book, particularly the ending scene. I confess I was reading it on an airplane toward the end of an 8 hour flight on very minimal sleep but I was so confused about what was happening when she finally confronted her father. I was definitely happy she did but the whole bit with the blood confused me so much. I wasn't quite sure what was happening!!

Princess Furball is one of my favorite versions of this story. Beautiful pictures, and a happy ending:)

There is also a film version of this story, by Jim Hanson's Storyteller. The episode is called Sapsorrow.

Finished this the other day.... I liked the book overall, but I was a little dissatisfied with the climax and conclusion.

What did you think about the "justice" at the end of the book? Did Lissar's father get what he deserved? How would you have concluded the story?

I'm almost finished with this book and all I can think of is how much this story sucked me in. I was at first reading the hard to read parts, worried that I wouldn't want to continue reading this one. But I was wrong as I have moved through the story and watched and listened to Lissar change how she sees herself, the world and everything about her. I cannot help but as much as I liked the main pick, I love this book.
Thank you ladies for picking this for the alt. I would not have chosen to read this on my own, and found that had my stubborn side not compelled me to finish both books this month I would have left this unread and missed out.
I don't know if you'll have time to discuss the alt this month, but hope there may be a few minutes for your thoughts.

I am still working on finishing the main pick for this month (I have today and tomorrow off, so I'll be reading a lot), but I finished Deerskin yesterday. I really enjoyed the book, even though it read strangely in some places, and I found it difficult to be sucked in during part 1 up until the end.

I loved the way the "beautiful king and queen" trope was examined from a negative point of view...and a negative point of view that only we the readers and Lissar and outsiders could see. I also found it interesting to see a bit of a victim blaming culture going on in her home-kingdom. It seemed like the entire country would rather see there as being something off about the daughter rather than the father. When he announced he was going to marry Lissar, the people's reactions weren't to be shocked or disgusted by him, but instead to blame Lissar. "Oh she must have bewitched him" even though she was clearly distressed.

The end confused me a little bit. I agree with Lisa I didn't quite get everything that was going on with Lissar and the blood in the end. Magic was described in such vague terms and what occurred was left so much up to the imagination that I had a bit of difficulty understanding.

I think that McKinley handled the abusive scenes very well. They were dark and upsetting but there was also a lot of focus on how that impacted Lissar and how it was NOT okay.

To answer Gary's questions: I'm not sure I felt satisfied with the ending, though there is some poetic justice in taking away her father's "youth" and looks and making him into the old man he was. In that case, killing him is almost too simple an option. Calling him out, publicly shaming him in a foreign land and in front of his own councilors (even if they didn't believe Lissar) is the sort of thing that will travel fast, no matter how small or insignificant the kingdom. Lissar ruined her father's opportunity to marry again. And basically turned an entire kingdom against him.

I don't know that I'd have actually changed the ending so much as just made certain results clearer. The magic was written vaguely throughout the entire book, which I can appreciate, but I would want it to be made clearer the sort of detrimental effects Lissar's father suffered from this incident.

Miranda wrote: "I also found it interesting to see a bit of a victim blaming culture going on in her home-kingdom. It seemed like the entire country would rather see there as being something off about the daughter rather than the father. When he announced he was going to marry Lissar, the people's reactions weren't to be shocked or disgusted by him, but instead to blame Lissar. "Oh she must have bewitched him" even though she was clearly distressed."

I had a bit of a problem with that as well. It's something of a mainstay of "pop" fiction (if I can coin a term) that the main character is a social scapegoat and victimized/ostracized, even if that "mean girls" reaction doesn't really make a lot of sense given the context. That sequence read like that kind of standard, and it didn't really jibe for me. Thankfully, it wasn't a particular focus of the book, though, and the plot turned away from it pretty quickly (into a darker place...) so it only took me out of the for a bit.

Miranda wrote: "The end confused me a little bit. I agree with Lisa I didn't quite get everything that was going on with Lissar and the blood in the end. Magic was described in such vague terms and what occurred was left so much up to the imagination that I had a bit of difficulty understanding."

She does go very symbolist/metaphorical there at the climax. It kind of jumbles up.

So much of the book is gritty realism (puppy poop, bad food, etc.) that the magic/faerie tale aspects were sometimes a little jarring. She seems to be channeling the power/spirit of the Moon Lady at that point, and the blood is part of that manifestation.

Plus, of course, it's hugely symbolic. Her assault/virginity, the miscarriage, the onset of her menses/womanhood, etc. It's something of a hint at her rejecting her own parentage too. She bleeds while confronting her father--her blood relative.

I thought the kingdom was bewitched by her mother's magic so they would automatically pick the father's side.

I am just starting this book, but the beginning chapters are SO DARK, man. There's an undercurrent of seriously messed up parent/child relationships in just the first chapter. Compared to Daughter of the Forest, that's a Disney ride from what I can tell as I get into this book!

Yes, I read Deerskin first and there were times I had to just walk away from the book, cause it was too painful to be inside her head after the incident.

Felicia wrote: "I am just starting this book, but the beginning chapters are SO DARK, man. There's an undercurrent of seriously messed up parent/child relationships in just the first chapter. Compared to Daughter ..."

Those early chapters are ROUGH. She draws on an awful lot of emotional cues and builds that sequence up to a real crescendo. On a evocative level, I don't think I've read a lot of authors capable of reaching that amount of poignancy.

At a certain point, in fact, I think she kind of pulls her punches. She has a real penchant for careful, complete prose, so she could have gone into a lot more gory details, but in THAT scene she cuts with "after he got what he came for" and goes into the aftermath. I think that was a smart choice--the existing text is pretty hard to take as it is.